Ecclesia a debate for that what is
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Deborah_
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The New Testament doesn't have a special word for 'church'; the apostles used ekklesia, the normal Greek word for 'assembly'. So what makes an 'assembly' a 'church'?
The New Testament letters were written mostly to churches, and many of the greetings at the beginning contain more than just the name of the church concerned. In them we read descriptions of the people who make up the church:
“To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be His holy people.” (Romans 1:7)
“To those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be His holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Corinthians 1:2)
“To God’s holy people, the faithful in Christ Jesus.” (Ephesians 1:1)
“To all God’s holy people in Christ Jesus at Philippi.” (Philippians 1:1)
“To God’s holy people in Colossae, the faithful brothers in Christ.” (Colossians 1:2)
“To God’s elect… who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with His blood.” (I Peter 1:1,2)
“To those who through the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours.” (II Peter 1:1)
“To those who have been called, who are loved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ.” (Jude 1)
There are some common themes here: the love of God, a calling, faith, holiness, and of course a commitment to Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.
A church can therefore be defined as a community of people who have heard God’s call and experienced His love, who have responded by putting their faith in Jesus and acknowledging Him as Lord, and who are being transformed (made holy) by His Spirit.
The New Testament letters were written mostly to churches, and many of the greetings at the beginning contain more than just the name of the church concerned. In them we read descriptions of the people who make up the church:
“To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be His holy people.” (Romans 1:7)
“To those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be His holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Corinthians 1:2)
“To God’s holy people, the faithful in Christ Jesus.” (Ephesians 1:1)
“To all God’s holy people in Christ Jesus at Philippi.” (Philippians 1:1)
“To God’s holy people in Colossae, the faithful brothers in Christ.” (Colossians 1:2)
“To God’s elect… who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with His blood.” (I Peter 1:1,2)
“To those who through the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours.” (II Peter 1:1)
“To those who have been called, who are loved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ.” (Jude 1)
There are some common themes here: the love of God, a calling, faith, holiness, and of course a commitment to Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.
A church can therefore be defined as a community of people who have heard God’s call and experienced His love, who have responded by putting their faith in Jesus and acknowledging Him as Lord, and who are being transformed (made holy) by His Spirit.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church says this about "church"
In Christian usage, the word "church" designates the liturgical assembly, but also the local community or the whole universal community of believers. These three meanings are inseparable. "The Church" is the People that God gathers in the whole world. She exists in local communities and is made real as a liturgical, above all a Eucharistic, assembly. She draws her life from the word and the Body of Christ and so herself becomes Christ's Body.(CCC 752).
The key phrase here is "liturgical assembly". Liturgy is the way we worship God and the main liturgy for Catholics is the Mass (The Liturgy). The Eucharist is "the source and summit of the Christian life" (CCC 1324).
Scripture says: "And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes..." (Acts 2:46). The breaking of bread is the Eucharist. Therefore when they met in homes they were "liturgical assemblies" not just prayer groups.
In Acts 20 Paul holds a meeting when a young man fell and died. Paul restores him to life. Then it says: "And when Paul had gone up and had broken bread and eaten..." (Acts 20:10). breaking bread is the Eucharist so again this is a "liturgical assembly").
In his first letter to the Corinthians Paul admonishes them for their behaviour when they come together. "For, in the first place, when you assemble as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you..." (1Cor 11:18) and a few verses later continues "For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me." In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes." (vs 23-26).
Again this is a "liturgical assembly", not just a prayer meeting, that he describes as assembling as a church.
In Christian usage, the word "church" designates the liturgical assembly, but also the local community or the whole universal community of believers. These three meanings are inseparable. "The Church" is the People that God gathers in the whole world. She exists in local communities and is made real as a liturgical, above all a Eucharistic, assembly. She draws her life from the word and the Body of Christ and so herself becomes Christ's Body.(CCC 752).
The key phrase here is "liturgical assembly". Liturgy is the way we worship God and the main liturgy for Catholics is the Mass (The Liturgy). The Eucharist is "the source and summit of the Christian life" (CCC 1324).
Scripture says: "And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes..." (Acts 2:46). The breaking of bread is the Eucharist. Therefore when they met in homes they were "liturgical assemblies" not just prayer groups.
In Acts 20 Paul holds a meeting when a young man fell and died. Paul restores him to life. Then it says: "And when Paul had gone up and had broken bread and eaten..." (Acts 20:10). breaking bread is the Eucharist so again this is a "liturgical assembly").
In his first letter to the Corinthians Paul admonishes them for their behaviour when they come together. "For, in the first place, when you assemble as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you..." (1Cor 11:18) and a few verses later continues "For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me." In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes." (vs 23-26).
Again this is a "liturgical assembly", not just a prayer meeting, that he describes as assembling as a church.
Catholich doctrines for teh catholic masses,
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Which is all you do,
but
Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Church is not in the bible, and again Mungo, you being a learned man full well know that this word is no where near a correct interpretation of teh word Ecclesia" is it...??
Typical, you are such anti-Catholic bigot that you would even trash your own thread to pour out your bile against Catholics.
You wanted a debate and I give you a reasonable reply but all you can do is vomit out you hatred of Catholics.
Deborah gives you her understanding. That's OK.
I give you the understanding of 1.2 billion Catholics and that's not OK.
Sheer bigotry.
And what is worship in spirit and in truth?
Is it God's way or your man made way?
I'll give you the understanding of a learned man - not me, I make no such claims.
According to an Orthodox priest, who is also a Greek translator, ekklesia means a body of citizenry, from ek (from) and klesis (calling or vocation). So it means a body "of the called" or "of the vocation". The calling is to be citizens of a city-state or kingdom. For the Jews it was the Kingdom of Israel, and later Judah. For Christians it a calling to be citizens of the kingdom of God. Thus Christ directly after announcing he will build his Church, his ekklesia (Mt 16:8), immediately mentions the kingdom of heaven and that he will give Peter the keys to that kingdom, and also gives him the power of binding and loosing. Peter is given kingdom authority of that ekklesia, those (here on earth) called to be citizens of the kingdom of heaven.
You wanted a debate and I give you a reasonable reply but all you can do is vomit out you hatred of Catholics.
Deborah gives you her understanding. That's OK.
I give you the understanding of 1.2 billion Catholics and that's not OK.
Sheer bigotry.
Untrue and you provide no evidence
And what is worship in spirit and in truth?
Is it God's way or your man made way?
I'll give you the understanding of a learned man - not me, I make no such claims.
According to an Orthodox priest, who is also a Greek translator, ekklesia means a body of citizenry, from ek (from) and klesis (calling or vocation). So it means a body "of the called" or "of the vocation". The calling is to be citizens of a city-state or kingdom. For the Jews it was the Kingdom of Israel, and later Judah. For Christians it a calling to be citizens of the kingdom of God. Thus Christ directly after announcing he will build his Church, his ekklesia (Mt 16:8), immediately mentions the kingdom of heaven and that he will give Peter the keys to that kingdom, and also gives him the power of binding and loosing. Peter is given kingdom authority of that ekklesia, those (here on earth) called to be citizens of the kingdom of heaven.
Stll has nothing to do with Church and you full well know it. God is not so foolish to put men in charge religion is just what came out of mans attempt.
What kind of an answer is that?
Answer - it isn't one. You have nothing rational to say. You have no answer so you just rant.
Well, you don't know the truth so I must assume you don't have anything to do with the Holy Spirit.
It's rather nervy to start a thread on ecclesia/ekklesia/assembly when you have nothing to do with any of them.
When one cannot tell teh difference between a bride and a harlot, one has real problems, and if all te hevil your ch8rc hhas commited over teh years is what you call your God, than we all know who your god is. I knew aht would happen do you not think i am sio foolish. So many blind men led by blind men. Why is it that you despise those that choose Christ over religion, or is it JEsus that you fear.
I am the way teh truth and teh life, says teh Lord.... wont find it anywhere else.
Rabnt yes I know that stuff seeing it come from teh best of teh worst, I will build, but no men have done it for Him and like all they build its corrupt, broken and worthless..
Rev_3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
how far man has fallen, and still so much further to go.
Could you please translate that into comprehensible English
And what is the point of that quote?
Are you speaking of yourself or some other?
You know what I said..
Yoo think you have eveyting yet you have nothing/?? I thought it would be obvious.
All man kind... but than you knew that..
I might know what you said but it is still incomprehensible.
But what is the point of that quote in reference to whatever it is you are trying to express?
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Several evangelical scholars have noted that the problem with Protestant ecclesiology is that there is no Protestant ecclesiology. In many denominations—and especially in non-denominational churches—
Executive Director of CSNTM & Senior Professor of NT Studies at Dallas Theological Seminary (Protestant)
- there is no hierarchy of churches responsible to a central head,
- no accountability beyond the local congregation,
- no fellowship beyond the local assembly,
- no missional emphasis that gains support from hundreds of congregations,
- and no superiors to whom a local pastor must submit for doctrinal or ethical fidelity.
Executive Director of CSNTM & Senior Professor of NT Studies at Dallas Theological Seminary (Protestant)
in charge of what? the whole surface of the earth and all the living things in it God gave man charge of long before there was more then a few humans. and despite man's treatment of such, the Lord God has kept His Word. this is where you might not understand.
can man do harm to the Kingdom of God? of course not, only certain and such can enter, but anything else within man's reach has been given freely. therefore what Jesus has entrust to Peter is entrusted to Peter. what the Lord entrusted to Moses was entrusted to Moses what was entrusted to King David was entrusted to King David, take note here by God. so what you could be saying here is God is foolish because He does entrust things of His creation to man.
I full well understand, sometimes it does my head in. God gave man charge full well knowing what we would do, as for church, Jesus changed all that, you know the bit about the new wine in the old wine skin, that is what religion is trying to fit the spiritual things of God into a carnal religion.
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WOW! Round of applause. A whole post without a spelling error.
Now all we need is for you to provide some evidence to back up your opinions.
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