1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Einstein's greatest blunder wasn't a blunder

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by KBCid, May 24, 2017.

  1. KBCid

    KBCid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    764
    Likes Received:
    292
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    It has been asserted by Einstein that he blundered when he was trying to describe the universe as static and always existing but, the truth here is stranger than fiction.

    Science has tried to establish a rationale for our existence that would eliminate the need for a creator and each of the various religious sects have tried to rationalize how their creator performed the act of creation.
    Oddly enough we live in a time where science and Christianity both seem to agree on the creation of everything as an essential big bang which caused space and time and matter to come into existence from virtual nothingness but, suppose Einstein was not wrong with his first assumption and the universe is a statically existing reality.

    A good logical thought here is that if science and religion agree then something is wrong, very wrong. Indeed both religion and science are wrong at the same time.

    In their drive to disprove that a creator is responsible for our existence scientist are working hard to turn back the current view to be like Einstein's first concept, a static eternal universe;

    Universe is Not Expanding After All, Controversial Study Suggests | Astronomy | Sci-News.com

    If science concludes that space and time and matter are an eternal static existence how will this affect the current religious beliefs?
     
  2. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,687
    Likes Received:
    1,819
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I don't know how it will affect religious views, but what is true is clear to those who know.

    Scientists are like self-taught mechanics of the universe. They only know of what they are convinced of, and only what makes sense in context, rather than the whole truth.

    But by the nature of manifest creation, just as good and evil are both manifest, both what is true and what is untrue are also manifest. Nonetheless, a manifest lie is still a lie...even if it can be proven within the context of what is manifest. It proves nothing, except that they exist within a bubble of untruth. Thus, those who believe in manifest untruth, believe what they believe, and are convinced, but are unaware of the actual truth. But for those of us who know the truth, we know what we know, and it is true, whether it is believed or is convincing, or not.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2017
    Sword likes this.
  3. KBCid

    KBCid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    764
    Likes Received:
    292
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Yes scientists are in a state of self-teaching. Their views change as the scientific approaches change and they assert that they believe what the majority of the scientific evidence points to.

    God is the only one who knows the whole truth and he imparts understanding to his chosen people (Jews) who were setup to be the light to the rest of the world. Einstein was a Jew who was given understanding to impart to the world but, he came to rationalize that he had to fit this understanding into what the world was believing based on the understandings of science at the time.
    Einstein changed from his God given understanding of a static universe to fit in with the scientific understanding of an expanding universe because of the Hubble observations. When he did this he denied what his gift was telling him and chose instead to fit in with the human understanding.

    God is eternal, space is eternal, time is eternal and the foundational constituents of matter are eternal.

    This understanding goes against not only the scientific views of the time but also the traditional religious views that people still have. Most Christians believe that God exists outside of time and space and that he created time and space and matter from absolute nothingness. This is not true. Not even God himself can perform an ex nihilo act.

    The traditional Christian reading of Genesis 1:1 is that it describes an act of creation by God at that moment but, this is not the case. Genesis 1:1 is actually a summary statement of what would be described in the following verses of scripture.
     
  4. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,687
    Likes Received:
    1,819
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Thank you. But I wouldn't rule out God's ability to do what would otherwise seem impossible. Even we can create [from the outside] an infinite universe out of nothing with light and energy - it's called the internet.
     
  5. KBCid

    KBCid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    764
    Likes Received:
    292
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    lol.

    It's not within my power to rule in or out. This is simply the truth of reality from Gods perspective. I too used to imagine that when God is the subject there is no limitation but, that is where imagination leaves reality behind.
    God has all the power to affect his creation but, as he has guided me through the scriptures he has shown where man has overstepped the boundaries of reality.

    You should note that even the internet is limited to the matter available to manage the 1's and 0's. Computer memory keeps growing because the information content requires it.

    If you have studied his word carefully you will have noted that no where else is there any indication of him making something from nothing. In every case he has made or formed something from something else. This is a key understanding. Unlike the tv show genie who could blink anything into reality, God has always worked with available things and modified them to his will.
    The only reason anyone can even imagine that he has the power to create ex nihilo is if you interpret Gen 1:1 as a creation event. So the entirety of Gods ability is held within the interpretive imagination of the reader. Without this one point there would be nothing to refer to biblically for God to be able to create from nothing.

    Note the words of this scripture carefully;
    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    If you notice here nothing was made without the word of God right? Now go back to Genesis and tell me what the first words of God are.
     
  6. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,687
    Likes Received:
    1,819
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Your position and logic would appear to lean greatly toward the physical, which of course is substantiated everywhere within the context of what is created (made), as well as within much of scripture, being relative to the ecclesiastical subject matter. But that doesn't even begin to define the spiritual kingdom, only through a glass darkly. As such the greater weight and evidence is far from being dominated by the physical. On the contrary, it only dominates the darkness.

    In my own personal experience, the greatest reality I know and have seen...is not of this world, and would be immeasurable on the head of a pin. Nevertheless, in the physical I decrease, and in the spirit I increase. Therefore, while I appreciate the contextual knowledge, I recognize it for what it is, for I know of something greater. So, the answer to your question is, No. Everything that was made, only speaks to what was made, but not of God whom was not made - you have left God out of it. All of what was made is passing away, and if we are in Christ, we become One with God whom is not physical, but is spirit.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
  7. KBCid

    KBCid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    764
    Likes Received:
    292
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The physical is a reflection of the spiritual. This is how God helps us to gain understanding. satan was not physical but he began rebellion within the spiritual realm. The ark of the covenant was made in the physical realm according to the pattern that was shown from the spiritual. There are so many correlations that I likely could fill a volume with them, so what you should try to understand in my posts are that there is a spiritual meaning behind everything I reference from a physical perspective.

    So your answer to this question "If you notice here nothing was made without the word of God right?" is no, then I will ask again "what are the first words of God?" Keep in mind we are to live by EVERY word of God so I am not taking you to a place here where there is no need to go.

    I'm afraid you are quite wrong here. Not everything that was made will pass away. Let me give you a clue that is in line with my current point. The first words that God utters is "let there be light".

    Now I'm going to give you something deep to think about here....

    1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

    If God is light and the scripture cannot be wrong then what exactly did God create when he said let there be light. The answer to this carries all the way to revelation;

    Revelation 22:1And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. 5And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

    Every word of God holds great meaning and to dismiss his older words by an implication of them being invalid since the occurrence of the new testament belittles the intent of Christ's saying that we should live by his Fathers every word.
     
  8. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,687
    Likes Received:
    1,819
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I do not dismiss any words from God, not older, not newer. But what you have just described of God being light, is a parable, an explanation by John to show the contrast of good verses evil with a fitting example. Regardless, the world is not all light just because God said, "Let there be light." It is also evil and passing away. So...what is your point?
     
  9. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

    Messages:
    21,433
    Likes Received:
    6,586
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States Minor Outlying Islands
    the difference in "the world" and "the earth" might need a hearing there?
     
  10. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

    Messages:
    21,433
    Likes Received:
    6,586
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States Minor Outlying Islands
    lol
     
  11. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

    Messages:
    21,433
    Likes Received:
    6,586
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States Minor Outlying Islands
    i thought denying his "spooky action at a distance" was his "blunder," so this is kind of a new one to me; that the article does little to clarify imo. You mention some "truth" that the article does not, so i'm not sure what you mean by that? What truth? ty
     
  12. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,687
    Likes Received:
    1,819
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Whether hand or fist, it is one.
     
  13. KBCid

    KBCid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    764
    Likes Received:
    292
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    And you are half wrong. God is both a spiritual and actual light
    This is exactly why I referenced Revelation. here it is again;

    Revelation 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. 5And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

    This is no parable for spiritual light. This is visible light which is necessary to grow the tree's which have leaves and fruit just as they were in the garden of Eden.
    I also did not say or imply that the world was anything. I said that God's first words were "let there be light", nothing to do with the world at all. The current state of the world will indeed pass away but the world will be renewed.
    Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

    Ecclesiastes 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

    Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
    2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

    So the question as I posed it still stands "what exactly did God create when he said let there be light"
     
  14. KBCid

    KBCid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    764
    Likes Received:
    292
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Einstein observed that stars were not all collapsing towards an intersecting point and rationalized that there had to be something countering the gravitational pull of the stars on each other so he proposed in his theory that there had to be a force in space itself that countered that gravitational pull and he called it a "cosmological constant".
    The truth I spoke of was the fact that the universe is static just as Einstein first envisioned, of course, the force that he named the "cosmological constant" was and is God.
     
  15. KBCid

    KBCid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    764
    Likes Received:
    292
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The Hebrew word eretz as translated in Genesis as earth is better translated as Land
     
  16. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

    Messages:
    21,433
    Likes Received:
    6,586
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States Minor Outlying Islands
    earth, land, physical plane, whatever. That they are not "the world" is, hopefully, the point.
    ? Erets and Kosmou, Earth and World, are two pretty different concepts. You can leave the world, but you can't leave the earth.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
  17. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,687
    Likes Received:
    1,819
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Okay, so you are asking a question, but obviously you actually just want to make a point - so again, I say, Make your point (and please stop fishing and then criticizing when you don't hear what you want to hear).

    As for "actual" light...there is nothing actual but the spirit. "These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:13-14

    ...But, please...make your point about what God created when he said, "Let there be light."
     
  18. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

    Messages:
    21,433
    Likes Received:
    6,586
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States Minor Outlying Islands
    um, well the thing is, that is just a theory?
     
  19. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,687
    Likes Received:
    1,819
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Those who are in Christ have already left the world, and will also leave the earth. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.
     
  20. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

    Messages:
    21,433
    Likes Received:
    6,586
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States Minor Outlying Islands
    well, but these are irrelevant to the point, are they not? Aside from possibly not being true, that is.
     
Loading...