End times - Isaac Newton was closest

[pom2014]

" I believe in Isaac Newtons 2060 Christ's return date."

And what part of no man knows wasn't clear enough?

Well I suppose if you keep guessing dates eventually someone will be right.

 

[rockytopva]

" I believe in Isaac Newtons 2060 Christ's return date."

And what part of no man knows wasn't clear enough?

Well I suppose if you keep guessing dates eventually someone will be right.

You have misquoted me. I said, "If I had to pick an end time date I would go with the scientist, Isaac Newton." And the topic of this thread is "End times - Isaac Newton was closest." So the topic was that 2060 was not date of Christ's return, but the closest pick of all who attempted date picking. In which Newton also is quoted as saying...

“It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." –Isaac Newton

 

[Trekson]

Hi Rocky, Newton's quote: "Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." –Isaac Newton


Except that's not what the bible says.

Matt. 24:32-35 - "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[a] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."

Now this passage is telling us that if we are watchful and alert as He told us to be we WILL know the times and the seasons. And...

1 Thess. 5:4 - "But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief."

This verse tells us that he DOES NOT come as a thief for His church but ONLY to the unsuspecting world.

So between Isaac Newton and the bible, I'll take the Word of God every time!!

 

[rockytopva]

The bible, especially Revelation, is written with much metaphor. I cannot believe one can study Revelation, and the bible, and see the same perspective as another fellow believer. You will agree and disagree on the interpretation of different passages...

John Bunyan was a great writer in metaphors/parables and he explains the use of them in his "The Barren Fig Tree" work (http://www.chapellib.../bun-barren.pdf):

6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down. - Luke 13:6-9

In parables there are two things to be taken notice of, and to be inquired into of them that read.

First, The metaphors made use of.
Second, The doctrine or mysteries couched under such metaphors.

The metaphors in this parable are,
1. A certain man;
2. A vineyard;
3. A fig-tree, barren or fruitless;
4. A dresser;
5. Three years;
6. Digging and dunging, &c.

The doctrine, or mystery, couched under these words is to show us what is like to become of a fruitless or formal professor. For,

1. By the man in the parable is meant God the Father (Luke 15:11).
2. By the vineyard, his church (Isa 5:7).
3. By the fig-tree, a professor.
4. By the dresser, the Lord Jesus.
5. By the fig-tree’s barrenness, the professor’s fruitlessness.
6. By the three years, the patience of God that for a time he extendeth to barren professors.
7. This calling to the dresser of the vineyard to cut it down, is to show the outcries of justice against fruitless professors.
8. The dresser’s interceding is to show how the Lord Jesus steps in, and takes hold of the head of his Father’s axe, to stop, or at least to defer, the present execution of a barren fig-tree.
9. The dresser’s desire to try to make the fig-tree fruitful, is to show you how unwilling he is that even a barren fig-tree should yet be barren, and perish.
10. His digging about it, and dunging of it, is to show his willingness to apply gospel helps to this barren professor, if haply he may be fruitful.
11. The supposition that the fig-tree may yet continue fruitless, is to show, that when Christ Jesus hath done all, there are some professors will abide barren and fruitless.
12. The determination upon this supposition, at last to cut it down, is a certain prediction of such professor’s unavoidable and eternal damnation.

But to take this parable into pieces, and to discourse more particularly, though with all brevity, upon all the parts thereof. ‘A certain MAN had a fig-tree planted in his vineyard.’ The MAN, I told you, is to present us with God the Father; by which similitude he is often set out in the New Testament. Observe then, that it is no new thing, if you find in God’s church barren fig-trees, fruitless professors; even as here you see is a tree, a fruitless tree, a fruitless fig-tree in the vineyard.

Fruit is not so easily brought forth as a profession is got into; it is easy for a man to clothe himself with a fair show in the flesh, to word it, and say, Be thou warmed and filled with the best. It is no hard thing to do these with other things; but to be fruitful, to bring forth fruit to God, this doth not every tree, no not every fig-tree that stands in the vineyard of God. Those words also, ‘Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he taketh away,’ assert the same thing (John 15:2). There are branches in Christ, in Christ’s body mystical, which is his church, his vineyard, that bear not fruit, wherefore the hand of God is to take them away: I looked for grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes, that is, no fruit at all that was acceptable with God (Isa 5:4). Again, ‘Israel is an empty vine, he bringeth forth fruit unto himself,’ none to God; he is without fruit to God (Hosea 10:1). All these, with many more, show us the truth of the observation, and that God’s church may be cumbered with fruitless fig-trees, with barren professors.

 

[Trekson]

Hi Rocky, I won't argue that deeper meanings can be found in the simplest of scriptures but that doesn't take away from the fact that the same passage can be read and understood literally, as well. Is some symbolism and metaphors used in Revelation? To a certain degree, of course, but I don't think there are as many as you make it seem. I think Revelations is best understood when read literally and when symbolism is used, the Word usually explains it at some point further on.

 

[michaelvpardo]

@Michael

You're like many people that live in these times.

Thinking this is bad. Bad? This is a glorious time to live.




You haven't. But that was "the good old days" as nostalgic people say.

We live in unprecedented splendour.

This is a golden age. Cherish it. The real tribulation is not even here yet.

Use the time to prepare people to fight the spiritual war. Help build the livery to continue.
Follow our liege and witness, heal, cast out spirits and love everyone.

No matter how mean, spiteful or terrible they are.
Be the light we were meant to be.

Grieve not for the times.
Use the power given. Faith, hope and love.

Gather do not divide.

"When have you seen a quarter of the world dead?
When have you seen a third of men die in war?"
my answer, not yet, but very soon.

"When have you seen 60 percent infant morality?"
my answer, not necessarily worldwide, but I seriously doubt infant mortality statistics include abortion figures. e.g. China is experiencing negative population growth and an aging population because of the 1 child law instituted many years ago. You can be reasonably confident that their infant mortality rate is somewhat higher than 50% if all the facts are included. I'd be afraid to even investigate the true infant mortality rate in the USA, but I guarantee that its significantly higher among specific targeted groups such as low income African Americans, Hispanics, Native Americans, etc.

"When have you seen the elderly dying in poverty on the streets?
When have you seen children worked to injury, death and defilement?
When have you seen whole Towns burnt to the ground, man, woman and child put to the sword?
When have you seen famine wipe out countess people?"

my answer: I'm grateful to have been spared seeing these things with my own eyes, yet having not seen them, they are still happening in places like Haiti, the sub-Saharan African continent, the middle east, China, Russia, and the underground marketplaces of the entire world including the US of A, or haven't you heard of the illegal sex slave market, or the market of illegal workers smuggled in at their own expense and sold into service for indefinite periods of time. The vast wealth of the USA (and vast debt) keeps our grocery stores full of every food imaginable, while small nations (such as Malawi in eastern Africa for example) have insufficient wealth to produce or procure enough food to feed their population. In that nation, which is not unique, people barely survive by subsistence farming and fill their empty bellies with grass and pieces of corn cob and the like when the annual crop is consumed. Do you believe that we even have accurate mortality figures for such places? I've seen photos from mission trips and the most common sight of human gatherings is funeral processions. In the middle east, radical Muslims, members of ISIS have rounded up Christians and other minority groups and exterminated them. One report included the sighting of a field covered with the severed heads of children. Do you really believe that these are exaggerations or fabrications? The last century has seen worse in parts of China invaded by the imperial Japanese army, and in parts of Russia where the fighting was the heaviest during WWII, in places like Somalia and Croatia and more than a few others.
Christ isn't served by going about blind to reality and convincing yourself that the Kingdom of God is in full blossom.
These are times of travail and it takes more than "light" to feed the starving, to clothe the naked, and shelter the homeless. The Lord commissioned the church to spread the gospel, but I haven't seen any edible tracts recently and we were warned to do more than this. God will separate not just the sheep from the goats, but He will bring division between the fat and the lean of His flock. There will be a reckoning, and I wouldn't want to be one of those who preach to an audience for gain and live in luxury, or of those who move among the sheep to defraud them of what little they have. This I have seen and have judged, and not I alone, for there is more than sufficient witness to the satisfaction of the law. The Lord extends grace but also calls us to repentance for we were not saved to lawlessness but to freedom, so let each man do what's right and allow justice to have its day.

 

[brakelite]

Hi Rocky. There is much wisdom in the way Isaac Newton understood prophecy. One important point misunderstood by the majority of Christendom and therefore leading them down wrong paths to futurism, is the correct understanding of prophetic day/months/years. Isaac had it right. A day in prophetic prophecy represents a year in real time. Thus 1260 days/42 months/ 3 1/2 years all represent the same priod of time, being symbolic rophetic time....1260 years. Isaac Newton and I see yourself believe the start date was 800 thus finishing 2060. I can see the reasoning behind ths, but do not think that to be a correct start date, nor the close of that time neccesarily indicating the second coming, but rather the beginning of the end times. 538-1798 I believe to be more significant and more accurate. 533 to 1793 is also interesting.

 

[rockytopva]

“It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." –Isaac Newton

 

[Trekson]

Hi Brakelite, There's no such thing as a year for a day principle. That's just something the SDA's created to make their take on prophecy seem more logical, at least for them anyway.

 

[brakelite]

“Three times and a half; that is, for 1260 solar years, reckoning as time for a calendar year of 360 days, and a day for a solar year. After which the judgment is to sit, and they shall take away his dominion, not at once, but by degrees, to consume and todestroy it unto the end.” (Sir Isaac Newton, Observations upon the Prophecies of Daniel and the Apocalypse of St. John, part 1, chap. 8, p. 114. London: J. Darby and
T. Browne, 1733).

“We must therefore compute the time according to the nature and genius of the prophetic language. A time, and times, and half a time are three years and a half; and the ancient Jewish year consisting of twelve months, and each month of thirty days,‘a time and times and half a time,’ or three years and a half, are reckoned in the Revelation 11:2,3; 12:6, 14, as equivalent to ‘forty and two months,’ or ‘a thousand two hundred and threescore days:’ and a day in the style of the prophets is a year: ‘ I have appointed thee each day for a year,’ saith God to Ezekiel 4:6; and it is confessedthat ‘the seventy weeks in the ninth chap ter of Daniel are weeks of years; and consequently 1260 days are1260 years.” (Bishop Thomas Newton, Dissertations on the prophecies, London: B. Blake, 1840, p. 247.)


What do conservative evangelical Christians do with the prophecy of the 70 weeks in Daniel 9? Don’t theyhave to employ the year/day principle to convert the weeks to years?

For an excellent article on the history of the year/day principle and proof that Aventists are not the 'inventors' of the principle as you propose, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-year_principle

 

[Trekson]

Hi Brakelite, I read the article you suggested and I'll take back the part about the "principle" being of SDA origin but the article does provide proof that the "principle" has been used by various religious orgs. to further their prophetic agenda, including the SDA's and those with a historicist leaning.

I object to the use of the word "principle" as described in my dictionary as "a fundamental truth or law and/or an established rule or policy". To claim something is a "principle" is to proclaim it has a constant meaning that every time the word “day” is used it must mean a year in a prophetic setting. If one can find one more times that it is NOT the case than the word "principle" CAN NOT apply and thus all other circumstances must be dealt with on an individual basis.

Newton’s quote: “Three times and a half; that is, for 1260 solar years, reckoning as time for a calendar year of 360 days, and a day for a solar year. After which the judgment is to sit, and they shall take away his dominion, not at once, but by degrees, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.”

I’ll make a plain statement and proclaim that Newton was wrong!

Bishop Thomas Newton quote: “I have appointed thee each day for a year,’ saith God to Ezekiel 4:6; and it is confessed that ‘the seventy weeks in the ninth chapter of Daniel are weeks of years; and consequently 1260 days are1260 years.”

I’ll make a plain statement and again proclaim that Newton was wrong! Maybe it has something to do with the name Newton! <_<

Your words: “What do conservative evangelical Christians do with the prophecy of the 70 weeks in Daniel 9? Don’t they have to employ the year/day principle to convert the weeks to years?”

No, we don’t have to apply or believe in a “principle” to acknowledge what scripture says and history has proven. The year/day result of Daniel 9 is only revealed by hindsight not because of a principle. History tells us that the weeks prophesied stood for years. In Ez. 4. God is making a specific point to Ezekiel, NOT establishing a prophetic “principle”.

Your article said: “The distinctly Seventh-day Adventist doctrine of the divine investigative judgment beginning in 1844, based on the 2300 day prophecy of Daniel 8:14, relies on the day-year principle. The 2300 days are understood to represent 2300 years stretching from 457 BC, the calculated starting date of the 70 weeks prophecy based on the 3rd decree found in Ezra, to 1844.[36][37] The prophecy of 2300 days in Verse 14 plays an important role in Seventh-day Adventist eschatology.

A major problem with this view is that the angel when interpreting Daniel’s vision of 2300 hundred days referred to them as “evening and morning” Dan. 8:26 – “And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.” Now we have God’s word telling us in Gen.1:5 – “And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.”
This concept is repeated in vss. 8,13,19,23,31. So you must ask yourself, Do the SDA’s proclaim a Sabbath every 7th day or every 7th year? But wait, there’s more!

Consider the phrasing within the prophecies themselves. Dan. 9:27 – “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”

We know this is concerning the 70th week and the highlighted phrase connects it to the 2300 day prophecy of Dan. 8:13 – “Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot.”

This shows that the 2300 days are within the context of the 70th week as is the repeat of this found in Rev. 11:2 – “But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.”
Which again is within the context of a seven year period so the 1260 days = 1260 years is totally false. But wait, Brakelite, there’s more!

Let’s carry this further to Dan. 12:11 – “And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.”

This further assures us that this is to be considered within the context of the 70th week so days must mean days, not years. Finally, if it is to be considered a prophetic principle where every prophetic day MUST be a year, we have this prophecy which is known as such only by hindsight and the revelation of Christ Matt. 12:40 – “For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”

If the “principle” is to be valid, this should be three years should be akin to the 2300 evening and morning of Dan. 8, but we know it is not, ergo, no such thing as a year/day principle!

 

[rockytopva]

So... If you had to pick a date what one would you go with? For having picked a date 300 years ago Isaac Newton was incredibly close!

 

[brakelite]

Trekson...you are stretching your connections far beyond what could be called sound exegesis. That language in one passage is similar to language in another does not necessarily mean they refer explicitly to the same thing. I might be making some presumptions here, but may I hazard a guess that you believe the 70th week is still future, and that the one referred to as causing the sacrifice and oblation to cease is the "antichrist"? That there is a 7 year tribulation yet to come and that 7 years is interupted mid term by antichrist invading/breaking treaty/ with Israel etc etc??? If this is the case little wonder that you are confused over the 1260 day/years and the 2300 day/years. Uness of course you are a preterist and believe Antiochus fulfilled the prophecy and was the 'antichrist' when he invaded Israel.

As to your referral to Jesus mention of Jonah. In all the prophetic time periods of the 1260 days, 42 months, times,time, and half a time, all these are in the context of symbolic language. In Revel.12 for example the woman is a symbol of God's people. The sun. moon, and stars all symbolic. The crowns...symbolic. The dragon, the 7 heads, the stars of heaven...all symbolic. Thus it stands to reason and sound Biblical exegesis that the prophetic time periods in verse 6 and 14 are also symbolic. That two unusual language expressions are used for the same time period is also indicative of a symbolic time. The same goes for the beast of Revel. 13:5 ruling for the same time. All symbolic. Same for the two witnesses of Rev. 11:3.
However, when Jesus referred to Jonah, there was no symbolism used whatsoever. Jesus was giving the hearers a direct straight-up comparison. A literal time period could be the only logical conclusion.

The Apostle Paul makes it absolutely clear that the Man of Sin was already working in his day and yet this man of sin will not be destroyed until Jesus comes. How could this be a literal person, if he was alive in Paul’s day and yet is not destroyed until Jesus comes? Is this one literal man who has lived over 2000 years? The inevitable conclusion is that the Man of Sin cannot be a literal man nor can his period of dominion be literal time. (See II Thes. 2:1-13).

 

[Trekson]

Hi Brakelite,
Your words: “Trekson...you are stretching your connections far beyond what could be called sound exegesis. That language in one passage is similar to language in another does not necessarily mean they refer explicitly to the same thing.”

When you’re speaking of unfulfilled prophecy the percentage is far greater that they are referencing the same thing, more than they are not. Most students of prophecy know that the key to understanding Revelations is the Book of Daniel. Almost all of the latter parts of Daniel’s visions are expanded upon and explained in more detail in Revelations and as such are proven to be still unfulfilled.

Your words: “If this is the case little wonder that you are confused over the 1260 day/years and the 2300 day/years.”

No, there’s no confusion, the belief in the year/day as a principle, unproven by history is what leads to confusion and as history has shown, the Millerites thought more highly of themselves than they ought.

Your words: “Unless of course you are a preterist and believe Antiochus fulfilled the prophecy and was the 'antichrist' when he invaded Israel.”

No, I’m not a preterist, but I do believe that Antiochus serves as a type of what we can expect in the latter days.

Your words: “I might be making some presumptions here, but may I hazard a guess that you believe the 70th week is still future, and that the one referred to as causing the sacrifice and oblation to cease is the "antichrist"?

Here, your assumptions are absolutely correct and in my opinion is the only way to properly understand the prophecies as written.


Your words: “That there is a 7 year tribulation yet to come and that 7 years is interupted mid term by antichrist invading/breaking treaty/ with Israel etc etc???

Here your assumptions are incorrect. The 70th week is nowhere in scripture described as a “seven yr. trib. period” although the Great trib is within the context of the 70th week, describing the whole week as “tribulation”, is just false. Also, I do not believe in the acts of the a/c as you have written. For what I believe about the a/c scroll down farther in this forum and you’ll find it.

Your words: “However, when Jesus referred to Jonah, there was no symbolism used whatsoever. Jesus was giving the hearers a direct straight-up comparison. A literal time period could be the only logical conclusion.”

I’m not sure you know exactly what symbolism is. In my opinion, “symbolism” and the use of “symbolic language” are two different things. “Symbolism” is the term used to represent a vague, invisible, intangible or abstract thing, whereas “symbolic language” is used to represent a very real, tangible, seeable and knowable thing.

Most times the fact that symbolic language is being used is unknown to the readers at the time of writing and is only made known by the hindsight of verifiable history, unless the symbolic is explained at some point in the same text. Thus, it is undeniable that Jonah’s time in the belly of the whale is symbolic for the future time Christ spent in the grave only realized when Christ arose three days after his death.

Your words: “The Apostle Paul makes it absolutely clear that the Man of Sin was already working in his day and yet this man of sin will not be destroyed until Jesus comes. How could this be a literal person, if he was alive in Paul’s day and yet is not destroyed until Jesus comes? Is this one literal man who has lived over 2000 years? The inevitable conclusion is that the Man of Sin cannot be a literal man nor can his period of dominion be literal time. (See II Thes. 2:1-13).”

The highlighted sentence can only be said by one who is interpreting the scriptures incorrectly. The Man of Sin and the “mystery of iniquity” are not the same thing. The man of sin will be a real, tangible person and the mystery of iniquity is, imo, best defined by TLB 2 Thess. 2:7 – “As for the work this man of rebellion and hell will do when he comes, it is already going on, but he himself will not come until the one who is holding him back steps out of the way.” This is the work of the “antichrists” from 1 John, which are separate from the singular antichrist John mentions first. So we know that the spirit of sin and rebelliousness is all around us but it will eventually be personified into one man who will be the figurehead for all rebellion against God as described in 2 Thess. 2:9, which, imo will occur in the mimicry of death and resurrection by the a/c as described in Rev. 13:3. He will die a man but arise fully possessed by Satan as His casting out as described in Rev. 12:9. The restrainer in all this is Michael as described in Dan. 12:1.

While you are correct that symbolic language is used in the following passage, they are all describing real, tangible things that can be known through study and the leading of the Holy Spirit. For one thing the timing is real time, not symbolism for an unknown period of time. Let’s break it down.

Your words: “In all the prophetic time periods of the 1260 days, 42 months, times,time, and half a time, all these are in the context of symbolic language. In Revel.12 for example the woman is a symbol of God's people. (the woman is Israel, the crown of 12 stars are the 12 tribes, the sun is God but I’m not sure what the moon is, maybe Retro will know…The crowns...symbolic.(for kings or leaders of nations) The dragon, the 7 heads,(both explained along with the crowns in Rev. 17:12-18) the stars of heaven...(fallen angels) all symbolic. Thus it stands to reason and sound Biblical exegesis that the prophetic time periods in verse 6 and 14 are also symbolic. That two unusual language expressions are used for the same time period is also indicative of a symbolic time. The same goes for the beast of Revel. 13:5 ruling for the same time. All symbolic. Same for the two witnesses of Rev. 11:3.” While symbolic language is used all can be known and understood, so because what they represent is real, the logical conclusion is that the times given are real as well because they fall in line of what is known about the “whole” of prophecy.

 

[brakelite]

I find it difficult to comprehend why futurists , or rather, how futurists can be so certain about their understanding of prophecy when they themselves admit it hasn't happened yet. Expressions like...such and such will happen....he will do this...we know it will...etc etc. Futurism, if not based on history (which does repeat) is mere conjecture and bordering on clairvoyance. Our Lord does not desire for us to gaze into the future and take pot shots at what may or may not take place. For a hint at how to understand prophecy, He Himself said "when these things come to pass,then you shall know that I am He."
Historicism on the other hand takes into account the last 2000 years of history as prophecy, in an unbroken tale, reveals the hand of God throughout history. He did not forget, ignore, or gloss over the last2000 years as if they were of no consequence. In fact, it is the last 2000 years which encapsulates the first stage of Antichrist's reign (1260 years), reveals the brth of the second stage after the head died, reveals the same period of persecution at his hand by the people of God, and sets the stage for the second coming. Current events attest to the accuracy of prophecy, and the correct historicist approach to understanding it.

 

[Trekson]

Hi Brakelite, Your words: "Historicism on the other hand takes into account the last 2000 years of history as prophecy, in an unbroken tale, reveals the hand of God throughout history. He did not forget, ignore, or gloss over the last2000 years as if they were of no consequence. In fact, it is the last 2000 years which encapsulates the first stage of Antichrist's reign (1260 years), reveals the birth of the second stage after the head died, reveals the same period of persecution at his hand by the people of God, and sets the stage for the second coming. Current events attest to the accuracy of prophecy, and the correct historicist approach to understanding it."

I'm sorry but I must emphatically disagree. Historicism finds significance where there is none and creates spiritual definitions and truths out of thin air. While the RCC admittedly has displayed the continuous spirits of antichrist, as has many other religious affiliations, they are not "The" antichrist. Rome is not as significant as many want to believe regarding the latter days. While people look for a western renewal of Rome, they should instead be looking for an eastern renewal of Rome. There is NOTHING from the historical viewpoint that can be shown to have any prophetic significance whatsoever. The belief that Rome and the RCC has historically been the antichrist borders on the absurd. When shown a viable, futurist alternative they hide behind the cloak of supposed symbolism and declare these things can't be understood.

Your words: "Futurism, if not based on history (which does repeat) is mere conjecture and bordering on clairvoyance. Our Lord does not desire for us to gaze into the future and take pot shots at what may or may not take place. For a hint at how to understand prophecy, He Himself said "when these things come to pass,then you shall know that I am He."

First, a reference for the highlighted part would be appreciated. Secondly, futurism has nothing to do with conjecture and clairvoyance and everything to do with the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Rev. 1:3 - "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand."

Revelation is the only book that offers this special blessing. Basically it is saying that if one reads, hears and understands and keeps their eyes open and watchful then one will know (no history lesson needed) when these things are about to come to pass. Most of the prophecies concerning this time dwell with the notion that "all these things", once begun, will occur and culminate in a short time period. Certainly nothing implies they will stretch on for centuries and millennia. So, how do futurists "know" they are on the right track? I can only speak for myself, but this is what I rely on.

John 16:13 - "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

The only thing I can say is that because of my strong desire and prayers to know the truth of end times, the Holy Spirit reveals things to me from time to time. These are not new things but a better understanding of what is already written. In the grand scheme of things, what I receive are mere crumbs, but after time these crumbs add up. I don't declare that I have any greater understanding then anyone else, just that I know I'm on the right track. This general increase in knowledge, imo, is part of what was promised and prophesied in Dan. 12:9-10 - "And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand."

Do with this whatever you will.

 

[Wormwood]

The things Daniel was told to seal were opened 2,000 years ago.

“And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.”” (Revelation 22:10–11, ESV)

 

[Trekson]

I believe they are two different books. If anything I believe the seven sealed scroll of Rev. 6, may be what Daniel sealed and it still hasn't been opened yet, imo.