Eternal punishment is not the case.

[MatthewG]

The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.

God is not going to destroy everyone, who is not a believer.


“Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:14-15‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

There is no such thing as bad news. Only great news. That people outside the gate are not completely closed off. My speculation they never will be, and the kingdom will never cease.

God will not force. God by his own volition desires to have all repent. That can be in this life or the next life though their is what seems to be a spiritual loss for them, being outside the gates upon entering.

This is not universalism but Gods imperative will that will never be truncated.

 

[marks]

The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.

God is not going to destroy everyone, who is not a believer.


“Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:14-15‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

There is no such thing as bad news. Only great news. That people outside the gate are not completely closed off. My speculation they never will be, and the kingdom will never cease.

God will not force. God by his own volition desires to have all repent. That can be in this life or the next life though their is what seems to be a spiritual loss for them, being outside the gates upon entering.

This is not universalism but Gods imperative will that will never be truncated.

Hi Matthew,

What then is the Lake of Fire?

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

Hello Marks,

Im not going to answer your question but here is something I would like to know your thoughts on.

What do you think the lake of fire is? Where is it coming from, and why also what is it’s purpose?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Hi Matthew,

What then is the Lake of Fire?

Much love!

Some say it’s eternal torture. I think it’s a more merciful annihilation because I don’t think a person has eternal anything without the new birth.

satan appears to be a different story though. I think he’s eternal somehow without it…

 

[MatthewG]

Some say it’s eternal torture. I think it’s a more merciful annihilation because I don’t think a person has eternal anything without the new birth.

satan appears to be a different story though. I think he’s eternal somehow without it…

Stunnedbygrace,

Some people do believe that they are annihilated, however I do not believe that is scripturally sound and is bad news.

Yes the devil has been completely done away with along with his demons though darkness exist still today.

 

[marks]

Hello Marks,

Im not going to answer your question but here is something I would like to know your thoughts on.

What do you think the lake of fire is? Where is it coming from, and why also what is it’s purpose?

You could also ask, where is it?

But I was asking your answer.

Much love!

 

[marks]

satan appears to be a different story though. I think he’s eternal somehow without it…

Why one and not the other?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Stunnedbygrace,

Some people do believe that they are annihilated, however I do not believe that is scripturally sound and is bad news.

Yes the devil has been completely done away with along with his demons though darkness exist still today.

Some day you might feel like laying it out scripturally for how you arrive there. No pressure though.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Why one and not the other?

Much love!

You mean why satan seems to have eternity in himself and we don’t and therefore need to be born again?
If that’s what you meant, Adam didn’t eat from the tree that could have made him live forever and then he had no chance to because an angel with a sword blocked the way to it because God said:
Then the LORD God said, “Look, the human beings have become like us, knowing both good and evil. What if they reach out, take fruit from the tree of life, and eat it? Then they will live forever!”
So it appears Adam did not have eternal life in him. Then, since he was made to bring forth of his own kind, how could he sire a person who DID have eternal life in them?
It reads to me like God didn’t want humans to be eternally miserable in that fallen state

As for how satan has lived so many years, no clue. He was made eternal I guess.

 

[marks]

You mean why satan seems to have eternity in himself and we don’t and therefore need to be born again?

That's not actually what I was asking.

"Live" and "Life" has various uses in Scripture, for instance, Jesus said that eternal life is knowing God, and Jesus Christ. I suspect He didn't mean just knowing about God. But I also suspect Satan does not have the kind of life-giving relationship with God that His children do.

My question was more, why would we think that Satan was created durable in some way that does not require the "eternal life" relationship with God, yet retains a durability regardless that allows eternal suffering in the Lake of fire,

IF Satan were created that way, why would not Man have been created that way? Why one, and not the other?

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

The devil was promised to be defeated in the beginning.

 

[MatthewG]

Some day you might feel like laying it out scripturally for how you arrive there. No pressure though.

still can’t argue with Revelation 22.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That's not actually what I was asking.

"Live" and "Life" has various uses in Scripture, for instance, Jesus said that eternal life is knowing God, and Jesus Christ. I suspect He didn't mean just knowing about God. But I also suspect Satan does not have the kind of life-giving relationship with God that His children do.

My question was more, why would we think that Satan was created durable in some way that does not require the "eternal life" relationship with God, yet retains a durability regardless that allows eternal suffering in the Lake of fire,

IF Satan were created that way, why would not Man have been created that way? Why one, and not the other?

Much love!

I don’t know. I just can’t find proof that we are born as eternal but I rather find proof that we aren’t in what I read.

 

[MatthewG]

Marks,

God created people to live with him. That was his ultimate goal was to created a people to have live with him forever.

Why else were Adam and Eve created. To be destroyed and thrown away? He didn’t recreated them he let them be also with a promise to the devil to be defeated.

I wouldn’t suggest that God is not going to end up completely destroying people if it was not true.

Yes the nation of Israel of 70ad was obliterated, but as far as I know there are only two destinations.

“Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:14-15‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Which undeniable… but people for some reason will deny this possibility for what reason? Traditions of men for all I know. Throw that stuff away is my suggestion and bask in the great news and the Goodness that God truly is.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Marks,

God created people to live with him. That was his ultimate goal was to created a people to have live with him forever.

Why else were Adam and Eve created. To be destroyed and thrown away? He didn’t recreated them he let them be also with a promise to the devil to be defeated.

I wouldn’t suggest that God is not going to end up completely destroying people if it was not true.

Yes the nation of Israel of 70ad was obliterated, but as far as I know there are only two destinations.

“Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:14-15‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Which undeniable… but people for some reason will deny this possibility for what reason? Traditions of men for all I know. Throw that stuff away is my suggestion and bask in the great news and the Goodness that God truly is.

There’s also this too though, in Revelation:
13The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds. 14ThenDeath and Hades were thrown into the lakeof fire. This is the second death— the lake offire. 15And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.…

 

[MatthewG]

@stunnedbygrace

You must think for yourself.

Either those things have happened or they have not. Also the context who was all of these things written for and to? The seven church’s of Asia Minor.

So I can’t go in to something without first starting with chapter one then going through all the way to to end, @stunnedbygrace.

The study of Revelation itself could be two year indulgence, using the Old Testament scripture along with secular history going verse by verse.

Not such a simple task to settle in five minutes.

Either the ending is true or one should scrap the whole thing and just suggest it is all nonsense, or take it by the horns and go do a study contextually including historical happenings back in the day when the Wrath of God was going to be poured out unto Israel which left, 1,000,000 Jewish people dead in those wars along with the temple being overturned just as Jesus had promised, along with taking back his bride that completely pure, spotless, and blameless.

 

[MatthewG]

Look up scripture about the book of life.

See what you find. Don’t take the verse just at it is without seeking if there are anymore that talk about it. That is my encouragement.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Okay. But it does say if anyone is not found in the book of life after the judgement, they are thrown into the lake of fire. So it has to be worked in.

 

[MatthewG]

Was it the devil and his angels?
Who was that you think?

 

[MatthewG]

I believe it has to deal with them, but I don’t know what I’m talking about. Maybe one day I’ll go through it. I did find a bunch of scriptures pertaining to the book of life.


Exodus 32:33
Psalms 69:28
Daniel 12:1
Luke 10:20
Philippians 4:3
Hebrews 12:23
Revelation 3:5
Revelation 13:8;17:8
Revelation 20:12
Revelation 21:27
Revelation 22:19