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Eternal Security

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by RichardBurger, Jan 11, 2009.

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  1. RichardBurger

    RichardBurger New Member

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    From the book "BASIC BIBLE DOCTRINES" by Donald Webb.Chapter 6Eternal Security………………………………………………….………………………….………………The Bible teaches that all the saved are eternally secure in Christ!Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, ... until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory. (Romans 5:1; Ephesians 1:14).Eternal security is really a continuance of the subject of salvation. When we say eternal security, we are really saying eternal salvation; and we are, of course, speaking of soul salvation.We specifically choose to use these terms eternal salvation and eternal security over such terms as once saved, always saved or the perseverance of the saints because of the implications of these latter two.To say once saved, always saved rightly expresses the thought of salvation being forever; but at the same time, it can imply a disregard for the present aspect of salvation from sin's power. It matters a great deal to God that we walk in victory over sin's power. This victory was given us in Christ the moment we were saved.When we speak to others, we want to be careful that we do not use terminology that will imply some wrong thought. The term perseverance of the saints can imply the thought that we will persevere or continue to do the right works in order to keep our salvation; this would be completely in error. That is not how God saves men, and the continuance and security of our salvation would be hopeless indeed if it were based for even an instant upon our performance. How much better to say that we believe that all the saved are eternally secure or that we believe in eternal salvation! Indeed, when salvation is by grace through faith, there is no other kind of salvation but eternal! The word eternal is the way the Bible refers to soul salvation. John 3:16 and 36 both say that he that believes on the Son has "everlasting life." Romans says it this way:For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ, our Lord (Romans 6:23).1 Timothy 1:16 says that those who believe on Him have "life everlasting." Some would object that the word everlasting does not mean without end but only applies to a specific age of time. To these we would say that the same words translated everlasting and eternal are also used over and over of God to describe His eternal Person, power, and glory. The simple truth is that to understand salvation is to understand eternal security.For people to believe they can be saved and then lost is to have an inadequate view of what was accomplished in salvation. Others believe you cannot know if you are truly saved until the end (death). This is also an inadequate view of what salvation is and how it is received. The subject of knowing now that you are saved is really called the assurance of salvation. The assurance (security) of salvation will be clear if we understand the following points.SALVATION'S MAIN POINTSBy Works or by GraceSalvation in this dispensation really comes down to one of two basic issues: Either it is by works, or it is by grace.The law of works is mentioned in Romans 3:27 and expounded in Romans 2:6-8, There, briefly, it states that if a man can live a perfect, righteous life, God will give him eternal life. But on the other hand, if he cannot - that is, if a man is evil and sins even once - then he will receive indignation and wrath from God.The Scriptures declare every man to be sold under sin (see chapter 4: Depravity). The only answer to this dilemma (that salvation cannot be earned no matter how much time is involved) is that salvation must be given freely as a gift. It must be given without merit for man can never merit or deserve it. Furthermore, because of the sinful, lost, and alienated condition of every man, salvation must be the product of the redemption of a righteous Savior.God's Word plainly states that salvation is by grace through faith and based upon the finished work of Christ alone:For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God - Not of works, lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8,9).Concerning works and grace, we want to note that there can be no mixing of these two principles:And if by grace, then is it no more of works; otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace; otherwise work is no more work (Romans 11:6).The logic of this verse is very simple and conclusive. It must be either one or the other! Either salvation is earned, or it is a gift of God's grace. Since we know that it cannot be earned, then grace is all that remains: Therefore, we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law (Romans 3:28).Romans also expressly states:But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness (Romans 4:5).We quote again from Ephesians:For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God - Not of works, lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8,9).We could add many more verses that say the same thing: Salvation can only be received by the gift of God through faith.An EventSalvation is an event, not a process. Salvation takes place in an instant of time (the moment that a person trusts Christ as Savior) and is of eternal duration. A person is not required to repent and show a changed life to be saved. He is not required to maintain some period of good works to be saved. Though both a changed life and good works would be the result of salvation, they are not required to be saved. There is no probationary period of any kind connected with salvation.Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5).Note that this is past tense: "He saved us." Again we read:Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved... (Acts 16:31). We read in Ephesians:In whom ye also trusted, after ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also after ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise (Ephesians 1:13).All these verses emphatically teach the truth that upon believing the gospel, God does the saving and the securing.For by one Spirit were we all baptized into one body... (1 Corinthians 12:13).This verse involves our salvation - not a ceremony - and tells us that the Holy Spirit places us (baptizes us) into the Body of Christ the moment we believe! Therefore, salvation involves the complete identification of every believer with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.Romans 6:3-5 refers to this baptism into Christ and verifies that it involves being placed into His death (also His burial and resurrection). Death is the end - the judgment for sin, and in Christ we have died the death that the law said we must. The law said, "The soul that sinneth it shall die," and this means not only physical death but spiritual death as well!Christ suffered both of these deaths for us, and having been identified with Him at Calvary, we were gloriously raised and seated with Him in the heavenlies (Ephesians 2:5,6). We must not forget that the result of this act was justification, which means that we are declared righteous (given the righteousness of Christ). Colossians 2:10-12 teaches that based upon our death, burial, and resurrection with Christ we are complete in Him.Colossians says:If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory (Colossians 3:14).For the believer, death and judgment are past. Our sins are gone, just as if we had died (which we did in Christ), and that everlasting penalty has been paid for us. When the Bible says that our sins are forgiven and remitted, it is on the basis of this truth: the substitutionary death of Christ.We must emphasize that it means all of our sins (past, present, and future) because death takes into account all possible sin, and burial and resurrection seal the transaction. Remember, too, that all of our sins were future when Christ died for us.For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:3,4).To sum up these points briefly: First, salvation cannot be by works but only by grace. Second, it happens as an event in time with eternal consequences and is not a process of time and works. Third, it involves the forgiveness of all our sins resulting in justification, based upon our death, burial, and resurrection with Christ.The above points also answer the possibility of receiving salvation by grace through faith but having to maintain and secure it by our works. This, of course, is impossible because in this body we are just as incapable of perfection now as before we were saved. The flesh is "sold under sin" (Romans 7: 14). Paul verified this in Galatians where he said:This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh (Galatians 3:2,3)?A salvation like this would not really be salvation at all because you do not have God's salvation (eternal life) if it is not eternal - right? Therefore, we conclude that salvation cannot be received, maintained, or secured by our works.The Purpose of the FatherWe again point out from Ephesians 1 that salvation is based upon the purpose of the Father, the work of the Son, and the regeneration or baptism and seal of the Spirit.In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will (Ephesians 1:11).Verse 10 already stated that God's purpose is to gather together in one all things in Christ. This is why it says that we should be to the praise of His glory in verse 12.Ephesians 1 opens with the statement that we have been blessed with all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies in Christ. To find out what all these spiritual blessings are, all we have to do is read verses 3 through 14. These blessings have to do with the purpose of God to eternally bless those who believe in Christ.For after that, in the wisdom of God, the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe (1 Corinthians 1:21).Concerning this purpose of God, verse 4 says we were chosen in Him to be holy and without blame. Verse 5 says that we were predestinated to the adoption of sons. Verse 6 adds that we are accepted in the beloved one. Verse 7 says that we have redemption and the forgiveness of sins. Verse 11 says that we have obtained an inheritance, and verses 13 and 14 tell us that we have the indwelling Holy Spirit as the seal and earnest of our salvation. All of this God has worked out according to His purpose, which Scripture says cannot be thwarted or changed:Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure (Isaiah 46:10).In keeping with this, we read:And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose (Romans 8:28).This verse is saying that God is working together all the circumstances in the believer's life for his ultimate spiritual good. The believers in this verse are those who love God, and they are the called according to His purpose. Reading on, it says:For whom He did foreknow , He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son... (Romans 8:29).1 Corinthians 1:21 says that God chose by the foolishness of preaching to save those that believe. The conclusion we draw from this verse is that God foreknew those who would believe in accordance with His purpose. These, it says, God predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son. This is our glorious position in Christ. This is a reference to our salvation or our sonship that we received as an eternal inheritance by believing the gospel:Moreover, whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called; them He also justified: and whom He justified; them He also glorified (Romans 8:30).1 Peter 5:10 speaks of the God of all grace who hath called us unto His eternal glory by Christ Jesus. Thus, the saved are partakers of Jesus Christ has accomplished.This gives a clear look at the terms of salvation that the Father purposed. All this is the result of the believer's faith and the gift of the grace of God. The stage was set for the questions Paul asked in Romans 8 in direct defense of the eternal nature of salvation:Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? Shall God that justifieth (Romans 8:33)?Paul asked here, "Who will dare bring an official indictment of sin or imperfection against one that God has declared righteous?" If any part of salvation were based upon the performance of man, we could well understand charges being brought against an individual. But who is prepared to question the work of God? It is based upon His purpose and work that He makes the declaration of righteousness.Who is he that condemneth? Shall Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us (Romans 8:34)?Since justification is God's purpose and is accomplished by Christ's death and resurrection, who will dare to say that His death was not enough? God says concerning Christ:Who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification (Romans 4:25).This means that God was satisfied with all Christ's work, and resurrection marked that the means of justification was now fully accomplished. Thus, we read: Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 5:1).This peace is the peace of knowing that God has declared righteous the believer in Christ and that his sins will never again separate him from God because they are gone. We are now in Him and possess His eternal life.Now Paul's questions come into clear focus. Who could possibly condemn any of what God has gloriously accomplished? Paul's last question in Romans 8 deals not with the judicial aspects of security-that has been adequately answered.What shall separate us from the love of Christ?... (Romans 8:35).The sin question is not the issue here. Justification is complete. But Paul now turns to the experiential, the circumstantial, by asking basically: Is there any thing, any circumstance, any power, any creature in the entire universe that could cause us to be separated from the love of Christ? Paul answers, "No - in tribulations, we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us."The source of these things (these persecutions and distresses) is really from a higher sphere - that of principalities, powers, and angelic hosts. Paul says that none of these things are able to harm our position in Christ, and verse 39 concludes:Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creation , shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus, our Lord (Romans 8:39).THE BELIEVER AND SINBut what about when the believer sins? When a believer does sin, it is an issue between him and God his Father. It is a family issue; it involves service not salvation. Salvation is complete and secure. From that time the Christian life is a matter of an eternal loving relationship with the Father (of growth and tender care of grace and, yes, even discipline) "until the redemption of the purchased possession..." Will we have to answer for sins committed as believers? Yes. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5:10 that we must answer for the things done in the body whether they be good or bad. But this involves rewards and loss of rewards, not salvation. We refer the reader to chapter 10, The Believer's Walk, for a further discussion of the believer and sin.(SNIP)
     
  2. Letsgofishing

    Letsgofishing New Member

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    5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. (rev 3:5)unless you are an overcomer, Jesus will blot your name out of the book of life.sorry, changing the thread does not change the scripture.god bless you, may he bless every step you takeRyan Fitz
     
  3. RichardBurger

    RichardBurger New Member

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    5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. (rev 3:5)unless you are an overcomer, Jesus will blot your name out of the book of life.sorry, changing the thread does not change the scripture.god bless you, may he bless every step you takeRyan Fitz
    No it doesn't, but the thread on OSAS does not prove that OSAS is not true.1 Timothy 1:16 says that those who believe on Him have "life everlasting." Some would object that the word everlasting does not mean without end but only applies to a specific age of time. To these we would say that the same words translated everlasting and eternal are also used over and over of God to describe His eternal Person, power, and glory. The simple truth is that to understand salvation is to understand eternal security.For people to believe they can be saved and then lost is to have an inadequate view of what was accomplished in salvation. If you can lose eternal life then it was not eternal was it?Richard
     
  4. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.
     
  5. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    No the thread might not but Gods Word does and if thats your belief fine keep it but stop with all the threads on the same subject Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen. Mat.7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heavenMat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquityMat 10:22And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.James1:12Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. If you do not pass this test YOU have broken your end of the deal your part of staying in faith ....No OSAS......And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity
     
  6. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    No the thread might not but Gods Word does and if thats your belief fine keep it but stop with all the threads on the same subject Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen. Mat.7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heavenMat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquityMat 10:22And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.James1:12Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. If you do not pass this test you are have broken your end of the deal your part of the promise ....No OSAS......And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity
    Revelation 3:14 - And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;Revelation 3:15 - I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.Revelation 3:16 - So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.Revelation 3:17 - Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:Revelation 3:18 - I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.Revelation 3:19 - As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.Revelation 3:20 - Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.Revelation 3:21 - To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.Revelation 3:22 - He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches....John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.Still No OSAS. You lose.
     
  7. Letsgofishing

    Letsgofishing New Member

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    No it doesn't, but the thread on OSAS does not prove that OSAS is not true.1 Timothy 1:16 says that those who believe on Him have "life everlasting." Some would object that the word everlasting does not mean without end but only applies to a specific age of time. To these we would say that the same words translated everlasting and eternal are also used over and over of God to describe His eternal Person, power, and glory. The simple truth is that to understand salvation is to understand eternal security.For people to believe they can be saved and then lost is to have an inadequate view of what was accomplished in salvation. If you can lose eternal life then it was not eternal was it?Richard
    Richard, your focusing on the wrong word. The word we should be focusing is not everlasting, but the word belief.We know that those who believe in Him have "life everlasting. But you can lose your belief. I used to believe in Santa Claus, I don't anymore. It is possible to lose belief in Christ, that is why it is so important to build your house on rock instead of sand, that is why it is so important to put on the armor of Christ, To repent, to worship, to live in his presence. So we can truly believe.
     
  8. epistemaniac

    epistemaniac New Member

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    comparing belief in Santa Claus to saving belief in Jesus Christ is a faulty analogy.... the reason being, it does not take any special work of grace to believe in Santa Claus, Santa Claus is not the holy eternal God of the universe who cannot not exist.... a person can just decide to believe in Santa Claus, or disbelieve, but a person cannot simply decide to savingly believe in Jesus Christ for the salvation of their soul. The bible says that mankind's heart is wicked, is of the flesh, and those in the flesh cannot.... CANNOT... meaning: does not have the ability..... to please God. Romans 8:6-8 (NASB) 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. "It is God who gives life as He sees fit, he gives mercy to some and He hardens some.... but the point is, the flesh profits nothing, and coming to God for salvation is not nothing, but rather, it is the greatest "something" of all!!! Nothing is not a little something. John 6:63 (NASB) "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life."So since it is the case that Santa Claus does not exist, since we are not told in the infallible scriptures that we are unable to believe in him unless this very belief is granted to us Eph. 2:8-9, as it is told to us regarding God's granting belief, Jn 6:44, Jn. 6:65 ... the comparison is invalid. In the end, the reason a true believer cannot fall away is because it is God Himself who supplied the saving faith to begin with.... there is nothing one could do to earn the gift of saving faith in the first place.... thus the reason a true Christian cannot fall away is because God is holding on to us, NOT because we are holding on to Him. God is faithful even when we are not faithful..., 2 Timothy 2:13 (ESV) if we are faithless, he remains faithful— for he cannot deny himself." He who began a good work in any one He saved.... He will not rescind on His work or word, He will not and would not give salvation only to turn around and take it back..... because He is a faithful God, and He WILL bring to completion the good work He began. Philippians 1:6 (ESV) And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ."So the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints is true because it is based on and in a correct and fully biblical soteriology, that is to say, not based on any Arminian or Semi-Pelagian scheme of salvation which starts with man and ha man at its center and its end, but rather its based on a salvation provided, accomplished and applied to the saints of God by God at the start, has God at the center, and ends with God enabling struggling sinners to persevere to the end. God calls and saves those whom He wants, since salvation is ALL of God, from start to finish, it is not based on man and his fickle nature in any way. but rather on God and His faithfulness. blessings,ken
     
  9. excepttruth

    excepttruth New Member

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    Dear epistemaniac, epistemaniac: "God calls and saves those whom He wants, since salvation is ALL of God, from start to finish, it is not based on man and his fickle nature in any way. but rather on God and His faithfulness." I agree with you on the first part of this statement. However, the second half no. REASON: Jesus clearly implies that we have a the ability to choose to remain in Him. "1"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. 8This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples. Note in verse :5 "If a man remains in me. :6 If anyone dose not remain. :7 If you remain in me. Also a prime directive by Jesus to us in : 9b "Now remain in my love." Also in Hebrews 11: 13-22 :13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Peter tells us of somee that have turn aside the grace of God. "17 These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18 For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity–for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. 20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.” Note vs. 21, These ex-believers knew the way of righteousness, they turn their backs on that which was passed on to them. One cannot return to his own ways if one has not left. Therefore, Peter is telling us,that they who once live under Gods grace turn back to their old life style (Vomit) They who were washed in His Blood and have return back to the former ways (Wallowing in the mud) Thus Peters warnning to us who think on these thoughts of givening up ? Not remaing in Jesus. 21 "It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them." Again Petyers warnning to us who are still in our Lords grace. 20 "If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. We much Love to you all in our Lord Jesus the Christ. Excepttruth
     
  10. RichardBurger

    RichardBurger New Member

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    No the thread might not but Gods Word does and if thats your belief fine keep it but stop with all the threads on the same subject Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen. Mat.7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heavenMat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquityMat 10:22And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.James1:12Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. If you do not pass this test YOU have broken your end of the deal your part of staying in faith ....No OSAS......And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity
    There are some who want to continue on this subject. Why is it that you wish to over ride what they want in order to satisfy your will. I feel it is a subject that needs to be discussed. Please, please do not be like the RCC when they tried to stop the Bible from being printed.If you are going to shut down threads because they do not agree with you then yuu will soon make this forum empty of all except those that ageee with. Seems to me that that is what the RCC wanted to do too.Richard
     
  11. RichardBurger

    RichardBurger New Member

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    Matt 22:1414 "For many are called, but few are chosen." NKJVThose that are chosen are the ones that want to place their faith, trust, confidence and hope in what God has done on the cross. These are the ones chosen and they are made children of God not by the will of man but by the will of God. The same is true that they are kept children of God by the will of God not by the will of man.John 1:12-51 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. NKJV2 Peter 1:2121 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy SpiritNKJV2 Cor 1:21-2221 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God,22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.NKJVEph 1:13-1413 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. NKJVEph 4:30-3130 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. NKJVThe children of God are made and kept by the will (power) of God.Richard
     
  12. RichardBurger

    RichardBurger New Member

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    Richard, your focusing on the wrong word. The word we should be focusing is not everlasting, but the word belief.We know that those who believe in Him have "life everlasting. But you can lose your belief. I used to believe in Santa Claus, I don't anymore. It is possible to lose belief in Christ, that is why it is so important to build your house on rock instead of sand, that is why it is so important to put on the armor of Christ, To repent, to worship, to live in his presence. So we can truly believe.
    So if you get life "everlasting" you can lose it. If that were true then it wouldn't be "everlasting" would it?Richard
     
  13. RichardBurger

    RichardBurger New Member

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    I think it is apparent that there are many that are interested in the subject of OSAS and eternal security.On the thread about OSAS there are 711 reads.On this thread there are already 65 reads.Richard
     
  14. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    I think it is apparent that there are many that are interested in the subject of OSAS and eternal security.On the thread about OSAS there are 711 reads.On this thread there are already 65 reads.Richard
    That's because the same people click on the thread multiple times when really in fact more like 15.
     
  15. Letsgofishing

    Letsgofishing New Member

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    So if you get life "everlasting" you can lose it. If that were true then it wouldn't be "everlasting" would it?Richard
    those who believe on Him have "life everlasting"Those who believewho believebelieve Now I'm pretty sure you agree with me that God at all times let us have our free will. If God wanted perfect little robots- He would have made them. Obeying and worshipping through our own will is what pleases God. So the deal isn't " alleluia, you believe, now I'm going to force you to believe forever."That clearly is a violation of our free will.a note to epistemaniacI would like to make clear that I am not comparing a petty belief in Santa Claus to a belief in God. A belief in God is much more sincere, Holy, and REAL. I should of picked a better analogy, my belief in God is so much more important.and you are right that God will never let go of us 3And he spake this parable unto them, saying, 4What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? 5And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. (Luke 15: 3-6)He will chase us, never leave us alone, but he can not force us to accept him. God will never let go of us, but we can let go of him.as I said before God wants us to willingly worship him. Your brother in ChristRyan Fitz
     
  16. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Exactly LGF .... we can let him go According to Richard me being a believer ...If I go and start worshiping Gods wonderous Nature and that leads to me to start worshiping some tree god ...Im still saved .... Wow thats great ........ I can be a tree worshiper ... a Hindu ...take the mark of the beast ... and still be saved .... thank God for OSAS doctrine we can all have as many gods as we like do what we what ........You heard it here straight from Richard OSAS .... (yes Im being sarcastic but I dont feel well , my patience is thin today ... God forgive me for my outburst)
     
  17. RichardBurger

    RichardBurger New Member

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    Exactly LGF .... we can let him go According to Richard me being a believer ...If I go and start worshiping Gods wonderous Nature and that leads to me to start worshiping some tree god ...Im still saved .... Wow thats great ........ I can be a tree worshiper ... a Hindu ...take the mark of the beast ... and still be saved .... thank God for OSAS doctrine we can all have as many gods as we like do what we what ........You heard it here straight from Richard OSAS .... (yes Im being sarcastic but I dont feel well , my patience is thin today ... God forgive me for my outburst)
    That is a downright lie. I never said what you have indicated. What I have said is that God keeps His children by His own power, not theirs. They will not lose their faith in God. They will not stop believing. They will not lose their trust in God. They will not lose their confidence in Him. --- So your saying I have said we can do all the things you indicated in your reply is not true and I think you owe me an apology.Richard
     
  18. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Exactly LGF .... we can let him go According to Richard me being a believer ...If I go and start worshiping Gods wonderous Nature and that leads to me to start worshiping some tree god ...Im still saved .... Wow thats great ........ I can be a tree worshiper ... a Hindu ...take the mark of the beast ... and still be saved .... thank God for OSAS doctrine we can all have as many gods as we like do what we what ........You heard it here straight from Richard OSAS .... (yes Im being sarcastic but I dont feel well , my patience is thin today ... God forgive me for my outburst)
    That is a downright lie. I never said what you have indicated. What I have said is that God keeps His children by His own power, not theirs. They will not lose their faith in God. They will not stop believing. They will not lose their trust in God. They will not lose their confidence in Him. --- So your saying I have said we can do all the things you indicated in your reply is not true and I think you owe me an apology.RichardShe owes you nothing. I think you owe us ... oh wait you owe God something and making Christ a liar. No nonbelievers will ever claim Christ as Lord, but only believers. Believers certainly can lose their trust and their faith and their confidence in Jesus Christ. We see it all around today. [​IMG]
     
  19. tomwebster

    tomwebster New Member

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    That is a downright lie. I never said what you have indicated. What I have said is that God keeps His children by His own power, not theirs. They will not lose their faith in God. They will not stop believing. They will not lose their trust in God. They will not lose their confidence in Him. --- ...Richard
    Looks like many will "lose their faith." 2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (G646) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; G646ἀποστασίαapostasiaap-os-tas-ee'-ahFeminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”): - falling away, forsake.And around and around we go where we stop nobody knows :eek: [​IMG]
     
  20. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    That is a downright lie. I never said what you have indicated. What I have said is that God keeps His children by His own power, not theirs. They will not lose their faith in God. They will not stop believing. They will not lose their trust in God. They will not lose their confidence in Him. --- So your saying I have said we can do all the things you indicated in your reply is not true and I think you owe me an apology.Richard
    Oh come on you know I wasnt serious but you refuse to see the reality of this doctrine......... what do you think OSAS is Richard?? Thats the doctrine you preaching even if unintentional .... Your defense is we have no free will to chose ?? ...sense when?? God doesnt force us to do anything I can do whatever I want should I chose tooNow I admit that my post was a little dramtic over the top ... but thats exactly what you are claiming with this doctrine isnt nessary for the strong of faith and gives the weak of faith an excuse ...You claim All that say Lord Lord are OSAS ......God says the oppisiteGod says the WHOLE WORLD will follow antichrist thinking he is christ yet you ..say they cant God wont let them ...God says he will .. you say we are to do nothing God does everything for us .....God says blessed is he that overcomes (imply it is us that must overcome) Are we to believe you or God ?? You are taking verse's met for the Elect or that are out of context and using them to come-up with a doctrine that isnt written that misleads ...Makes people think they must be right in what ever they do or whatever choices they make ... or God would somehow magically will stop them ..but God says .. I will allow a great delusion upon the World ... So left with a choice between what you say and God says I'll take God ..sorry OSaS is not a real doctrinePS If I offened you I apoligize ...I was trying to show you the obsurity of this doctrine, but its not a lie that is what OSAS implys
     
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