Eternal Torment?
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QUOTE (bethog @ Apr 2 2009, 04:15 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71640
QUOTE (TallMan @ Apr 2 2009, 04:10 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71639
Does anyone have any clear view of whether the majority of souls will be tormented for ever?
There most definitely is going to be souls tormented for ever, but for the head count, no man can say as only God will knows.No, souls will not be tormented forever. It's not biblical. Soul will just die. Cease to exist. They are not going to be tormented or burned forever and ever.
QUOTE (TallMan @ Apr 2 2009, 04:10 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71639
Does anyone have any clear view of whether the majority of souls will be tormented for ever?
There most definitely is going to be souls tormented for ever, but for the head count, no man can say as only God will knows.No, souls will not be tormented forever. It's not biblical. Soul will just die. Cease to exist. They are not going to be tormented or burned forever and ever.
QUOTE (bethog @ Apr 2 2009, 05:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71653
QUOTE (Jordan @ Apr 2 2009, 05:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71647
No, souls will not be tormented forever. It's not biblical. Soul will just die. Cease to exist. They are not going to be tormented or burned forever and ever.
Ok, bring your Scripture to prove your statement, and then explain what the following Scripture say.Revelation 14:9-11 (New King James Version)9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.Luke 13:3, 5 - I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.Your scriptures are not saying the soul will be tormented or burned forever. It is saying their smoke is tormented. They will be taught at the Millennium Reign, but they are without Christ, because Christ = Sabbath = Rest. He is our Rest. But they will be great peace as no one will bring their tradition of men with them.The Second Death occurs after the Millennium Reign and Satan to deceive the nations one more time, before the Great White Throne Judgment begins... After this Judgment, those who are in the Lake of Fire will die, cease to exist, and no longer will be remembered by anyone. And Satan will also be turned to ashes. (Ezekiel 28:18)
QUOTE (Jordan @ Apr 2 2009, 05:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71647
No, souls will not be tormented forever. It's not biblical. Soul will just die. Cease to exist. They are not going to be tormented or burned forever and ever.
Ok, bring your Scripture to prove your statement, and then explain what the following Scripture say.Revelation 14:9-11 (New King James Version)9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.Luke 13:3, 5 - I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.Your scriptures are not saying the soul will be tormented or burned forever. It is saying their smoke is tormented. They will be taught at the Millennium Reign, but they are without Christ, because Christ = Sabbath = Rest. He is our Rest. But they will be great peace as no one will bring their tradition of men with them.The Second Death occurs after the Millennium Reign and Satan to deceive the nations one more time, before the Great White Throne Judgment begins... After this Judgment, those who are in the Lake of Fire will die, cease to exist, and no longer will be remembered by anyone. And Satan will also be turned to ashes. (Ezekiel 28:18)
QUOTE (TallMan @ Apr 2 2009, 04:10 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71639
Does anyone have any clear view of whether the majority of souls will be tormented for ever?
Yes they will.Matthew 713 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Many will go into destruction, while few will enter into the Kingdom.QUOTE (bethog @ Apr 2 2009, 05:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71653
Ok, bring your Scripture to prove your statement, and then explain what the following Scripture say.Revelation 14:9-11 (New King James Version)9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Just so you know bethog, the only time Jordan cares about what scriptures says is when it agrees with what she already believes. If scriptures teaches something she does not agree with she ignores it.Matthew 2541 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.Believe or not Jordan is going to claim the bible is wrong, and everlasting does not really mean everlasting.
Does anyone have any clear view of whether the majority of souls will be tormented for ever?
Yes they will.Matthew 713 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Many will go into destruction, while few will enter into the Kingdom.QUOTE (bethog @ Apr 2 2009, 05:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71653
Ok, bring your Scripture to prove your statement, and then explain what the following Scripture say.Revelation 14:9-11 (New King James Version)9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Just so you know bethog, the only time Jordan cares about what scriptures says is when it agrees with what she already believes. If scriptures teaches something she does not agree with she ignores it.Matthew 2541 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.Believe or not Jordan is going to claim the bible is wrong, and everlasting does not really mean everlasting.
QUOTE (watchman @ Apr 2 2009, 11:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71675
Believe or not Jordan is going to claim the bible is wrong, and everlasting does not really mean everlasting.
Be careful what you say watchman. If you want to be a tale bearer, spreading clear lies about me, that's your choice. You are free to believe whatever you want. Nobody is going to judge you.
Believe or not Jordan is going to claim the bible is wrong, and everlasting does not really mean everlasting.
Be careful what you say watchman. If you want to be a tale bearer, spreading clear lies about me, that's your choice. You are free to believe whatever you want. Nobody is going to judge you.
QUOTE (Jordan @ Apr 2 2009, 03:46 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71657
Ok, bring your Scripture to prove your statement, and then explain what the following Scripture say.Revelation 14:9-11 (New King James Version)9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, ?If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.?Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.Luke 13:3, 5 - I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.Your scriptures are not saying the soul will be tormented or burned forever. It is saying their smoke is tormented. They will be taught at the Millennium Reign, but they are without Christ, because Christ = Sabbath = Rest. He is our Rest. But they will be great peace as no one will bring their tradition of men with them.The Second Death occurs after the Millennium Reign and Satan to deceive the nations one more time, before the Great White Throne Judgment begins... After this Judgment, those who are in the Lake of Fire will die, cease to exist, and no longer will be remembered by anyone. And Satan will also be turned to ashes. (Ezekiel 28:18)
Im pretty sure that in Hebrew death also means an eternal separation from God. God turning His back to the people in hell, the very thought of not feeling love and peace ever again, to be trapped in torment and know that no matter what you say or do will ever reach God's ears is torment enough. That very moment you are excommunicated from God is the death.
Ok, bring your Scripture to prove your statement, and then explain what the following Scripture say.Revelation 14:9-11 (New King James Version)9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, ?If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.?Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.Luke 13:3, 5 - I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.Your scriptures are not saying the soul will be tormented or burned forever. It is saying their smoke is tormented. They will be taught at the Millennium Reign, but they are without Christ, because Christ = Sabbath = Rest. He is our Rest. But they will be great peace as no one will bring their tradition of men with them.The Second Death occurs after the Millennium Reign and Satan to deceive the nations one more time, before the Great White Throne Judgment begins... After this Judgment, those who are in the Lake of Fire will die, cease to exist, and no longer will be remembered by anyone. And Satan will also be turned to ashes. (Ezekiel 28:18)
Im pretty sure that in Hebrew death also means an eternal separation from God. God turning His back to the people in hell, the very thought of not feeling love and peace ever again, to be trapped in torment and know that no matter what you say or do will ever reach God's ears is torment enough. That very moment you are excommunicated from God is the death.
QUOTE (bethog @ Apr 2 2009, 10:15 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71640
There most definitely is going to be souls tormented for ever, but for the head count, no man can say as only God will knows.
So, you actually believe the majority of souls God created will be writhing in torment for ever and ever, without end?And of course God would have planned this!
There most definitely is going to be souls tormented for ever, but for the head count, no man can say as only God will knows.
So, you actually believe the majority of souls God created will be writhing in torment for ever and ever, without end?And of course God would have planned this!
QUOTE (bethog @ Apr 2 2009, 11:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71653
Ok, bring your Scripture to prove your statement, and then explain what the following Scripture say.Revelation 14:9-11 (New King James Version)9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
I have looked up the word forever/everlasting at it means age-lasting.Obviously God alone has everlasting life, and those to whom he gives it, so the age wpould depend on who is being spoken of.The entities the beast and the false prophet and those that follow them will certainly be tormented during the millenium.I also looked up the word perish (eg John 3:16) and it means to be destroyed, die means cease to exist.Jude talks about the judgement of eternal fire on Sodom & Gomorrah . . we know these cities are not still burning, but the destruction is eternal.Jesus said "they know not what they do" so the punishment of eternal torment doesn't seem to fit the crime of rejecting his eternal life.The wicked are burned as stuble not as a coal you can warm yourself with Isaiah says, indicating a quick destruction (perishing) after judgement and weeping & gnashing of teeth
Ok, bring your Scripture to prove your statement, and then explain what the following Scripture say.Revelation 14:9-11 (New King James Version)9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
I have looked up the word forever/everlasting at it means age-lasting.Obviously God alone has everlasting life, and those to whom he gives it, so the age wpould depend on who is being spoken of.The entities the beast and the false prophet and those that follow them will certainly be tormented during the millenium.I also looked up the word perish (eg John 3:16) and it means to be destroyed, die means cease to exist.Jude talks about the judgement of eternal fire on Sodom & Gomorrah . . we know these cities are not still burning, but the destruction is eternal.Jesus said "they know not what they do" so the punishment of eternal torment doesn't seem to fit the crime of rejecting his eternal life.The wicked are burned as stuble not as a coal you can warm yourself with Isaiah says, indicating a quick destruction (perishing) after judgement and weeping & gnashing of teeth
QUOTE (TallMan @ Apr 3 2009, 03:59 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71686
So, you actually believe the majority of souls God created will be writhing in torment for ever and ever, without end?And of course God would have planned this!
Jesus died for all men.1st John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.God wants all to be saved1st Timothy 23For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. God doesn't want any to perish2nd Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.Anyone that goes to Hell/The lake of Fire has only themselves to blame. God has made a way for us all, if we refuse to accept this free gift then we have chosen Hell for ourselves.QUOTE (watchman @ Apr 2 2009, 11:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71675
Believe or not Jordan is going to claim the bible is wrong, and everlasting does not really mean everlasting.
QUOTE (TallMan @ Apr 3 2009, 07:19 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71695
I have looked up the word forever/everlasting at it means age-lasting.
Looks like tall man was the first to insert the lie that everlasting doesn't really mean everlasting into this conversation. I would have put my money on Jordan (good thing I don't gamble...lol)
So, you actually believe the majority of souls God created will be writhing in torment for ever and ever, without end?And of course God would have planned this!
Jesus died for all men.1st John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.God wants all to be saved1st Timothy 23For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. God doesn't want any to perish2nd Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.Anyone that goes to Hell/The lake of Fire has only themselves to blame. God has made a way for us all, if we refuse to accept this free gift then we have chosen Hell for ourselves.QUOTE (watchman @ Apr 2 2009, 11:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71675
Believe or not Jordan is going to claim the bible is wrong, and everlasting does not really mean everlasting.
QUOTE (TallMan @ Apr 3 2009, 07:19 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71695
I have looked up the word forever/everlasting at it means age-lasting.
Looks like tall man was the first to insert the lie that everlasting doesn't really mean everlasting into this conversation. I would have put my money on Jordan (good thing I don't gamble...lol)
So right,
Let me all ask you a question. If a friend of yours or a family member dies, do you see the flesh body being tortured or burned forever and ever? or do you not see the flesh body anymore because it is gone?
QUOTE (Jordan @ Apr 3 2009, 02:47 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71739
So right,
Let me all ask you a question. If a friend of yours or a family member dies, do you see the flesh body being tortured or burned forever and ever? or do you not see the flesh body anymore because it is gone?
This question has nothing to do with the subject nor would the answer disprove the words of Christ Himself.Matthew 2541 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
So right,
This question has nothing to do with the subject nor would the answer disprove the words of Christ Himself.Matthew 2541 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
QUOTE (bethog @ Apr 2 2009, 11:24 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71653
. . .11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
The phrase "they have no rest, day or night" (Rev 14:11) is interpreted by traditionalists as descriptive of the eternal torment of hell. The phrase, however, denotes the continuity and not the eternal duration of an action. John uses the same phrase "day and night" to describe the living creatures praising God (Rev 4:8), the martyrs serving God (Rev 7:15), Satan accusing the brethren (Rev 12:10), and the unholy trinity being tormented in the lake of fire (Rev 20:10). In each case, the thought is the same: the action continues while it lasts. Harold Guillebaud correctly explains that the phrase "they have no rest, day or night" (Rev 14:11) "certainly says that there will be no break or intermission in the suffering of the followers of the Beast, while it continues; but in itself it does not say that it will continue forever."47Support for this conclusion is provided by the usage of the phrase "day and night" in Isaiah 34:10, where, as we have seen, Edom’s fire is not quenched "night and day" and "its smoke shall go up for ever" (Is 34:10). The imagery is designed to convey that Edom’s fire would continue until it had consumed all that there was, and then it would go out. The outcome would be permanent destruction, not everlasting burning. "From generation to generation it shall lie waste" (Is 34:10). (from [url="http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/immortality_resurrection/6.htm]here[/url])QUOTE (watchman @ Apr 3 2009, 07:21 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71729
. . .Looks like tall man was the first to insert the lie that everlasting doesn't really mean everlasting into this conversation. I would have put my money on Jordan (good thing I don't gamble...lol)
What is your source of truth?I have looked at various translations, also this:"the Greek word aionios, translated "eternal" or "everlasting," literally means "lasting for an age." Ancient Greek papyri contain numerous examples of Roman emperors being described as aionios. What is meant is that they held their office for life. Unfortunately, the English words "eternal" or "everlasting" do not accurately render the meaning of aionios, which literally means "age-lasting." In other words, while the Greek aionios expresses perpetuity within limits, the English "eternal" or "everlasting" denotes unlimited duration." (from here)
. . .11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
The phrase "they have no rest, day or night" (Rev 14:11) is interpreted by traditionalists as descriptive of the eternal torment of hell. The phrase, however, denotes the continuity and not the eternal duration of an action. John uses the same phrase "day and night" to describe the living creatures praising God (Rev 4:8), the martyrs serving God (Rev 7:15), Satan accusing the brethren (Rev 12:10), and the unholy trinity being tormented in the lake of fire (Rev 20:10). In each case, the thought is the same: the action continues while it lasts. Harold Guillebaud correctly explains that the phrase "they have no rest, day or night" (Rev 14:11) "certainly says that there will be no break or intermission in the suffering of the followers of the Beast, while it continues; but in itself it does not say that it will continue forever."47Support for this conclusion is provided by the usage of the phrase "day and night" in Isaiah 34:10, where, as we have seen, Edom’s fire is not quenched "night and day" and "its smoke shall go up for ever" (Is 34:10). The imagery is designed to convey that Edom’s fire would continue until it had consumed all that there was, and then it would go out. The outcome would be permanent destruction, not everlasting burning. "From generation to generation it shall lie waste" (Is 34:10). (from [url="http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/immortality_resurrection/6.htm]here[/url])QUOTE (watchman @ Apr 3 2009, 07:21 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71729
. . .Looks like tall man was the first to insert the lie that everlasting doesn't really mean everlasting into this conversation. I would have put my money on Jordan (good thing I don't gamble...lol)
What is your source of truth?I have looked at various translations, also this:"the Greek word aionios, translated "eternal" or "everlasting," literally means "lasting for an age." Ancient Greek papyri contain numerous examples of Roman emperors being described as aionios. What is meant is that they held their office for life. Unfortunately, the English words "eternal" or "everlasting" do not accurately render the meaning of aionios, which literally means "age-lasting." In other words, while the Greek aionios expresses perpetuity within limits, the English "eternal" or "everlasting" denotes unlimited duration." (from here)
QUOTE (TallMan @ Apr 3 2009, 05:59 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71754
What is your source of truth?I have looked at various translations, also this:"the Greek word aionios, translated "eternal" or "everlasting," literally means "lasting for an age."
This is simply not true, everlasting in the Greek mean with out beginning and with out end, perpetually everlasting ect.... in short it means exactly what it say everlasting. My source of truth is scripture not man made lies to deceive people into believing their is no hell. This is one of satan greatest lies, that Hell is not true.
What is your source of truth?I have looked at various translations, also this:"the Greek word aionios, translated "eternal" or "everlasting," literally means "lasting for an age."
This is simply not true, everlasting in the Greek mean with out beginning and with out end, perpetually everlasting ect.... in short it means exactly what it say everlasting. My source of truth is scripture not man made lies to deceive people into believing their is no hell. This is one of satan greatest lies, that Hell is not true.
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QUOTE (bethog @ Apr 2 2009, 07:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71662
There must be something wrong with how you read the Word. Read this slowly and then you will get it.“the smoke of their torment” This is what the Scripture says. the smoke of their tormentthe smoke of their tormentthe smoke of their tormentNow read slowly what you said. “their smoke is tormented”their smoke is tormentedtheir smoke is tormentedtheir smoke is tormentedNow read the Bible once again:Revelation 14:9-11 (New King James Version)9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”Now if someone is going to be tormented and burn for ever, it can not be their bodies as that will burn out quickly. So then it will be their souls and spirits that will be tormented forever. Now if anyone doubt the Scripture concerning this, all they have to do is making sure they will not go to heaven and then they can go check it out for themselves, but for me, I chose to believe the Word of God and make sure that I do not go to hell to see who was right and who was wrong.
Let me get this straight, So, it's the smoke of their torment?
There must be something wrong with how you read the Word. Read this slowly and then you will get it.“the smoke of their torment” This is what the Scripture says. the smoke of their tormentthe smoke of their tormentthe smoke of their tormentNow read slowly what you said. “their smoke is tormented”their smoke is tormentedtheir smoke is tormentedtheir smoke is tormentedNow read the Bible once again:Revelation 14:9-11 (New King James Version)9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”Now if someone is going to be tormented and burn for ever, it can not be their bodies as that will burn out quickly. So then it will be their souls and spirits that will be tormented forever. Now if anyone doubt the Scripture concerning this, all they have to do is making sure they will not go to heaven and then they can go check it out for themselves, but for me, I chose to believe the Word of God and make sure that I do not go to hell to see who was right and who was wrong.
Let me get this straight, So, it's the smoke of their torment?
QUOTE (bethog @ Apr 3 2009, 06:51 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71761
QUOTE (WhiteKnuckle @ Apr 3 2009, 06:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71759
Let me get this straight, So, it's the smoke of their torment?
That’s what the Bible saysRevelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”Then how can Revelation 20:11-13 be fulfilled if it means forever and ever?
QUOTE (WhiteKnuckle @ Apr 3 2009, 06:44 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71759
Let me get this straight, So, it's the smoke of their torment?
That’s what the Bible saysRevelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”Then how can Revelation 20:11-13 be fulfilled if it means forever and ever?
QUOTE (Jordan @ Apr 3 2009, 07:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71764
That’s what the Bible saysRevelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”Then how can Revelation 20:11-13 be fulfilled if it means forever and ever?
The eternal torment starts in verse 14 of Revelation 20.
That’s what the Bible saysRevelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”Then how can Revelation 20:11-13 be fulfilled if it means forever and ever?
The eternal torment starts in verse 14 of Revelation 20.
QUOTE (watchman @ Apr 3 2009, 08:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71766
QUOTE (Jordan @ Apr 3 2009, 07:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71764
Then how can Revelation 20:11-13 be fulfilled if it means forever and ever?
The eternal torment starts in verse 14 of Revelation 20.First of all, we're looking at Revelation 14. Very nice avoiding the question...Secondly, when was death becomes burning or tormented forever? Have you seen a person having a flesh death being burning forever and screaming? What about being tormented?Your mind thinking of this set is completely against the nature of God.
QUOTE (Jordan @ Apr 3 2009, 07:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71764
Then how can Revelation 20:11-13 be fulfilled if it means forever and ever?
The eternal torment starts in verse 14 of Revelation 20.First of all, we're looking at Revelation 14. Very nice avoiding the question...Secondly, when was death becomes burning or tormented forever? Have you seen a person having a flesh death being burning forever and screaming? What about being tormented?Your mind thinking of this set is completely against the nature of God.
QUOTE (Jordan @ Apr 3 2009, 08:19 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71768
The eternal torment starts in verse 14 of Revelation 20.First of all, we're looking at Revelation 14. Very nice avoiding the question...Secondly, when was death becomes burning or tormented forever? Have you seen a person having a flesh death being burning forever and screaming? What about being tormented?Your mind thinking of this set is completely against the nature of God.
The real question is when did the words of Christ become invalid?Matthew 2541 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
The eternal torment starts in verse 14 of Revelation 20.First of all, we're looking at Revelation 14. Very nice avoiding the question...Secondly, when was death becomes burning or tormented forever? Have you seen a person having a flesh death being burning forever and screaming? What about being tormented?Your mind thinking of this set is completely against the nature of God.
The real question is when did the words of Christ become invalid?Matthew 2541 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
QUOTE (watchman @ Apr 3 2009, 08:23 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71770
QUOTE (Jordan @ Apr 3 2009, 08:19 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71768
The eternal torment starts in verse 14 of Revelation 20.First of all, we're looking at Revelation 14. Very nice avoiding the question...Secondly, when was death becomes burning or tormented forever? Have you seen a person having a flesh death being burning forever and screaming? What about being tormented?Your mind thinking of this set is completely against the nature of God.
The real question is when did the words of Christ become invalid?Matthew 2541 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.It doesn't. The problem is your lack of understanding His Words. Have you not notice that God uses nature to teach us?
QUOTE (Jordan @ Apr 3 2009, 08:19 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71768
The eternal torment starts in verse 14 of Revelation 20.First of all, we're looking at Revelation 14. Very nice avoiding the question...Secondly, when was death becomes burning or tormented forever? Have you seen a person having a flesh death being burning forever and screaming? What about being tormented?Your mind thinking of this set is completely against the nature of God.
The real question is when did the words of Christ become invalid?Matthew 2541 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.It doesn't. The problem is your lack of understanding His Words. Have you not notice that God uses nature to teach us?
QUOTE (Jordan @ Apr 3 2009, 09:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=71773
The real question is when did the words of Christ become invalid?Matthew 2541 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.It doesn't. The problem is your lack of understanding His Words. Have you not notice that God uses nature to teach us?
I understand perfectly, Jesus says what He means and means what He says.
The real question is when did the words of Christ become invalid?Matthew 2541 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.It doesn't. The problem is your lack of understanding His Words. Have you not notice that God uses nature to teach us?
I understand perfectly, Jesus says what He means and means what He says.
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