Events before the cross, events AFTER the resurrection

[Johann]

 

[GEN2REV]

Did I miss the parts about the events after the resurrection?

 

[Johann]

Did I miss the parts about the events after the resurrection?

No, it was an afterthought..most are comfortable with the gospels but after the resurrection of our blessed Lord and Saviour things changed, Christ is in heaven making intercession in our behalf and we have the Holy Spirit also interceding in our stead..yet we have been translated from this world...Col_1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:..and the wrath of God continually abides on all unbelievers

 

[GEN2REV]

Christ is in heaven making intercession in our behalf and we have the Holy Spirit also interceding in our stead

Ya know, the Bible tells us that God is omnipresent.
Psalms 46:1
Job 23:8-9

John tells us that Jesus is God - in many different verses starting with John 1:1 and John 1:14.

Jesus, and God both, tell us that Jesus and the Father are the Holy Spirit.
John 14:21-23
Isaiah 57:15

Does any of that change your perspective on Christ being in heaven and the Holy Spirit being with us?

 

[farouk]

I like to think of the Lord's Supper - 1 Corinthians 11.26 both as looking back to the Cross and forward to His coming.

Luke 22's account of the Lord's Supper's institution seems to mark a transition from the passover looking forward to the Cross, while the Lord's Supper looks back.

 

[Johann]

Ya know, the Bible tells us that God is omnipresent.
Psalms 46:1

John tells us that Jesus is God - in many different verses starting with John 1:1 and John 1:14.

Jesus, and God both, tell us that Jesus and the Father are the Holy Spirit.
John 14:21-23
Isaiah 57:15

Does any of that change your perspective on Christ being in heaven and the Holy Spirit being with us?

Nothing wrong with that...except the part where you say that Jesus and the Father are the Holy Spirit...I firmly believe in the Triune Godhead, you?

 

[GEN2REV]

Nothing wrong with that...except the part where you say that Jesus and the Father are the Holy Spirit...I firmly believe in the Triune Godhead, you?

But how does someone in your position explain all those verses, though?

All 3 persons are everywhere at once?

All 3 are the Holy Spirit that indwells us?

That wouldn't follow Trinity doctrine to my understanding.

 

[Johann]

But how does someone in your position explain all those verses, though?

All 3 persons are everywhere at once?

All 3 are the Holy Spirit that indwells us?

That wouldn't follow Trinity doctrine to my understanding.

What's wrong with the Trinity doctrine?

 

[GEN2REV]

What's wrong with the Trinity doctrine?

Did you take a look at the verses I posted?

They create real problems for the concept of 3 persons as our God.

Especially John 14:21-23.

How do you explain Jesus presenting that scenario?

 

[farouk]

What's wrong with the Trinity doctrine?

God in Three Persons is eminently Biblical.

 

[Johann]

Did you take a look at the verses I posted?

They create real problems for the concept of 3 persons as our God.

Especially John 14:21-23.

How do you explain Jesus presenting that scenario?

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Joh 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Did you forget verse 26?


Whom (ho). Grammatical neuter, but “whom” is correct translation. The Father will send the Holy Spirit (Joh_14:16; Luk_24:49; Act_2:33), but so will the Son (Joh_15:26; Joh_16:7) as Jesus breathes the Holy Spirit upon the disciples (Joh_20:22). There is no contradiction in this relation of the Persons in the Trinity (the Procession of the Holy Spirit). Here the Holy Spirit (full title as in Mar_3:29; Mat_12:32; Luk_12:10) is identified with the Paraclete.
He (ekeinos). Emphatic demonstrative pronoun and masculine like paraklētos.
Shall teach you all things (humas didaxei panta). The Holy Spirit knows “the deep things of God” (1Co_2:10) and he is our Teacher in the Dispensation of the Holy Spirit of both new truth (Joh_14:25) and old.
Bring to your remembrance (hupomnēsei humas). Future active indicative of hupomimnēskō, old verb to remind, to recall, here only in this Gospel (cf. 3Jn_1:10; 2Ti_2:14) and with two accusatives (person and thing). After pentecost the disciples will be able better to recall and to understand what Jesus had said (how dull they had been at times) and to be open to new revelations from God (cf. Peter at Joppa and Caesarea).

Hmm...One in being, 3 in Person


When we look at
the first man lying on the
ground dead (Gn. 5:5), the
Bible is showing us the first
sinner of a sinning/dying
epoch which only the
Moshiach's death brings to an
end (2C 5:14). But the point
here is that humankind in Gn
1:27 is “HaAdam” in Hebrew,
and that verse shows Man as
having both singularity and
plurality (oto and otam, Gn
1:27), thus reflecting his
Maker, Elohim, Who also has
singularity and plurality in
His complexity (compare
echad in Gn 2:24 and Dt 6:4).
Gn 1:26 uses a majestic plural
but the Doctrine of Hashem’s
Kedushah Meshuleshet
(Threefold Holiness) is seen in
Elohim (Gn 1:1) and the Dvar
Hashem (Gn 1:3) and the
Ruach Elohim (Gn 1:2)
engaged in the work of
creation. When we look at the
original language in Zohar
Vol.3 Ha'azinu page 288b, we
see the text which comments
on Daniel 7:13, where the Bar
Moshiach comes to the
Ancient of Days. The Zohar
says, "The Ancient One is
described as being two (TAV
RESH-YUD-FINAL
NOON,Aramaic for "two")." G-d
and the Moshiach, called by
Daniel "the Ancient of Days"
and "the Son of Man" are
obviously a picture of G-d as
"two" in the Bible, and the
Zohar owns up to this fact,
calling G-d "two." Two
sentences prior to that on the
same page, the original
language of the text of the
Zohar says, "The Ancient Holy
One [i.e. G-d, Daniel 7:13] is
found with three (TAV
LAMMED-TAV, Aramaic for
"three") heads or chiefs (RESH
YUD-SHIN-YUD-FINAL NOON
Aramaic for "heads"), which are
united in One (CHET-DALET
Aramaic for "one")." Here we
have a picture in the Zohar of
the raz (mystery) of G-d's
unity, the distinct havayot
(subsistences, modes of being)
in Adonoi Echad. G-d is
echad,one, but a complex one,
not three g-ds, only Hashem,
One, but with Hashem’s
Kedushah Meshuleshet
(Threefold holiness, Isa 6:3).

Trinity, a compound unity...I do not necessarily agree wit the "not three Gods" in the Orthodox bible, for Christ is God, the Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God...but I guess you would not agree

 

[GEN2REV]

God in Three Persons is eminently Biblical.

Not really because the Holy Spirit is only supposed to be one of those persons.

Not all 3.

They are taught as being separate, different and yet all god.

Scripture readily contradicts all of that.

Why would God contradict such an important doctrine, while simultaneously never clearly teaching it anywhere?

Can you explain the verses presented by Jesus, farouk?

 

[GEN2REV]

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Joh 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Did you forget verse 26?


Whom (ho). Grammatical neuter, but “whom” is correct translation. The Father will send the Holy Spirit (Joh_14:16; Luk_24:49; Act_2:33), but so will the Son (Joh_15:26; Joh_16:7) as Jesus breathes the Holy Spirit upon the disciples (Joh_20:22). There is no contradiction in this relation of the Persons in the Trinity (the Procession of the Holy Spirit). Here the Holy Spirit (full title as in Mar_3:29; Mat_12:32; Luk_12:10) is identified with the Paraclete.
He (ekeinos). Emphatic demonstrative pronoun and masculine like paraklētos.
Shall teach you all things (humas didaxei panta). The Holy Spirit knows “the deep things of God” (1Co_2:10) and he is our Teacher in the Dispensation of the Holy Spirit of both new truth (Joh_14:25) and old.
Bring to your remembrance (hupomnēsei humas). Future active indicative of hupomimnēskō, old verb to remind, to recall, here only in this Gospel (cf. 3Jn_1:10; 2Ti_2:14) and with two accusatives (person and thing). After pentecost the disciples will be able better to recall and to understand what Jesus had said (how dull they had been at times) and to be open to new revelations from God (cf. Peter at Joppa and Caesarea).

Hmm...One in being, 3 in Person


When we look at
the first man lying on the
ground dead (Gn. 5:5), the
Bible is showing us the first
sinner of a sinning/dying
epoch which only the
Moshiach's death brings to an
end (2C 5:14). But the point
here is that humankind in Gn
1:27 is “HaAdam” in Hebrew,
and that verse shows Man as
having both singularity and
plurality (oto and otam, Gn
1:27), thus reflecting his
Maker, Elohim, Who also has
singularity and plurality in
His complexity (compare
echad in Gn 2:24 and Dt 6:4).
Gn 1:26 uses a majestic plural
but the Doctrine of Hashem’s
Kedushah Meshuleshet
(Threefold Holiness) is seen in
Elohim (Gn 1:1) and the Dvar
Hashem (Gn 1:3) and the
Ruach Elohim (Gn 1:2)
engaged in the work of
creation. When we look at the
original language in Zohar
Vol.3 Ha'azinu page 288b, we
see the text which comments
on Daniel 7:13, where the Bar
Moshiach comes to the
Ancient of Days. The Zohar
says, "The Ancient One is
described as being two (TAV
RESH-YUD-FINAL
NOON,Aramaic for "two")." G-d
and the Moshiach, called by
Daniel "the Ancient of Days"
and "the Son of Man" are
obviously a picture of G-d as
"two" in the Bible, and the
Zohar owns up to this fact,
calling G-d "two." Two
sentences prior to that on the
same page, the original
language of the text of the
Zohar says, "The Ancient Holy
One [i.e. G-d, Daniel 7:13] is
found with three (TAV
LAMMED-TAV, Aramaic for
"three") heads or chiefs (RESH
YUD-SHIN-YUD-FINAL NOON
Aramaic for "heads"), which are
united in One (CHET-DALET
Aramaic for "one")." Here we
have a picture in the Zohar of
the raz (mystery) of G-d's
unity, the distinct havayot
(subsistences, modes of being)
in Adonoi Echad. G-d is
echad,one, but a complex one,
not three g-ds, only Hashem,
One, but with Hashem’s
Kedushah Meshuleshet
(Threefold holiness, Isa 6:3).

Trinity, a compound unity...I do not necessarily agree wit the "not three Gods" in the Orthodox bible, for Christ is God, the Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God...but I guess you would not agree

Posting a 3-foot long post, loaded with extra-biblical material, is not very effective at presenting your case clearly and convincingly.

I only asked you to explain John 14:21-23, more than once, which you are clearly dodging.

It's ok. We don't have to discuss it.

I like to try and show fellow-Christians the rest of what scripture has to say about the popular, trendy doctrine that is spoon-fed to Christians who aren't serious students of the Bible.

Many simply aren't interested in the Truth.

Hosea 4:6

 

[Johann]

Posting a 3-foot long post, loaded with extra-biblical material, is not very effective at presenting your case clearly and convincingly.

I only asked you to explain John 14:21-23, more than once, which you are clearly dodging.

It's ok. We don't have to discuss it.

I like to try and show fellow-Christians the rest of what scripture has to say about the popular, trendy doctrine that is spoon-fed to Christians who aren't serious students of the Bible.

Many simply aren't interested in the Truth.

Hosea 4:6

really sorry you feel that way, people are simply too lazy to read or study, you have left out verse 26

 

[GEN2REV]

really sorry you feel that way, people are simply too lazy to read or study, you have left out verse 26

And you didn't capitalize the first word in your sentence, nor use any punctuation at the end which is trade mark for those who are here to farm an agenda.

Since you are here planting thread after thread, let me guess:

Along with your Trinity campaign, are you also selling Pre-Trib Rapture and Pre-Millennialism as well?

100 shekels says you're also pushing OSAS/Eternal Security.

How'd I do?

 

[Johann]

God in Three Persons is eminently Biblical.

Absolutely correct Farouk, problem now is, the others will excommunicate us for believing in the Triune Godhead..or worse

 

[Johann]

And you didn't capitalize the first word in your sentence, nor use any punctuation at the end which is trade mark for those who are here to farm an agenda.

Since you are here planting thread after thread, let me guess:

Along with your Trinity campaign, are you also selling Pre-Trib Rapture and Pre-Millennialism as well?

100 shekels says you're also pushing OSAS/Eternal Security.

How'd I do?

You have shown your fruit, odious, cantankerous..are you born from above?

 

[Johann]

And you didn't capitalize the first word in your sentence, nor use any punctuation at the end which is trade mark for those who are here to farm an agenda.

Since you are here planting thread after thread, let me guess:

Along with your Trinity campaign, are you also selling Pre-Trib Rapture and Pre-Millennialism as well?

100 shekels says you're also pushing OSAS/Eternal Security.

How'd I do?

Are you born from above? An Imperative from Christ

 

[GEN2REV]

You have shown your fruit, odious, cantankerous..are you born from above?

Since I clearly speak the Truth, you can decide where I'm from.

Clearly, I nailed it. Bullseye.

Your positions are still upheld in the majority around here.

There's not a forum online anywhere that embraces sound Biblical doctrine among its majority.

Those of us who do are still scattered far and wide, just as Jesus said we would be.

God bless.

 

[Johann]

Since I clearly speak the Truth, you can decide where I'm from.

Clearly, I nailed it. Bullseye.

Your positions are still upheld in the majority around here.

There's not a forum online anywhere that embraces sound Biblical doctrine among its majority.

Those of us who do are still scattered far and wide, just as Jesus said we would be.

God bless.

Are you boasting?
That's pride, and scripture has nothing good to say about that.
Are you born from above?