Explain how God can exist

[Born_Again]

There was a similar topic started a while back "Questions for an atheist." I don't think the question it's self was properly posed. So, what I propose is this:

How can you prove, with credibility and evidence, that God does in fact exist? Now, I would like to ask, that if possible, when using scripture in an argument, please find a way to connect it to tangible evidence if possible. I also understand at some point it is what you would choose to believe.

Now, as believers and followers of Christ we have faith and have seen evidence in our own lives. But remember, you are, at this point, trying to convince someone, atheist or otherwise that there is a God. How are you going to do it?

BA Out!

 

[lforrest]

The best approach I thought to use was to pose Jesus' life as fulfillment of the prophesies in Isaiah 53 that were given seven centuries before he was born. As indisputable as you may think that argument could be, it fails to convince people.

I'm convinced the best approach is to show christian love and let others see your conviction in day to day life. Share your hope in Christ, and let the Holy Spirit do the rest.

 

[ATP]

Now, as believers and followers of Christ we have faith and have seen evidence in our own lives. But remember, you are, at this point, trying to convince someone, atheist or otherwise that there is a God. How are you going to do it?

Well, thankfully I don't have to prove anything. My salvation isn't based on trying to prove to the world I'm saved.

 

[Born_Again]

Well, thankfully I don't have to prove anything. My salvation isn't based on trying to prove to the world I'm saved.

That's fair, but I'll further the challenge... An atheist says "I will take Christ as my personal Lord and savior if you can show me He is here, right now." The challenge that lies in there is you can either answer his question to the best of your ability or you can say "I don't have to explain anything to you" and walk away....

 

[ATP]

That's fair, but I'll further the challenge... An atheist says "I will take Christ as my personal Lord and savior if you can show me He is here, right now." The challenge that lies in there is you can either answer his question to the best of your ability or you can say "I don't have to explain anything to you" and walk away....

I would walk away. Matt 4:5-7.

 

[Born_Again]

I would walk away. Matt 4:5-7.

Okay, that's a reasonable answer. Is it not possible though, you may have missed an opportunity to bring someone to Christ. Now, in that, the atheist was challenging you, you were not challenging God. Is using Matt 4:5-7 maybe a bit out of context for the situation?

 

[ATP]

Okay, that's a reasonable answer. Is it not possible though, you may have missed an opportunity to bring someone to Christ. Now, in that, the atheist was challenging you, you were not challenging God. Is using Matt 4:5-7 maybe a bit out of context for the situation?

I would say the spirit of the antichrist is in the atheist, similar to the devil challenging Jesus.

For example, the atheist says, "I will take Christ as my personal Lord and savior if you can show me He is here, right now."

If you can show me? I don't have the power to save people, only God does.

 

[Born_Again]

I would say the spirit of the antichrist is in the atheist, similar to the devil challenging Jesus.

For example, the atheist says, "I will take Christ as my personal Lord and savior if you can show me He is here, right now."

If you can show me? I don't have the power to save people, only God does.

Okay, ATP. I can roll with that.
So, at what point do we go with what ATP suggests and at what point, atheist aside, do we step up to the plate and do what Christ has called us to do? As ATP suggested, it is possible that Satan is trying to tempt us. What would be your deciding factor? Thank you again, ATP

 

[7angels]

if find that those that declare as you said that ask for proof that God is real and i'll believe are people that usually no matter what you say will not change their minds. but if i have not been praying for God to bring someone to me that i can share Jesus with i usually won't bother sharing because they probably are not ready to hear the gospel yet. an exception to that is if God directs me to a certain person but other than that i don't do it.

God bless

 

[stephenleonard]

That is the questions Christians have been asking for centuries ever since Constantine issued the Edict of Milan making Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire. I also believe in the fallibility of the Bible and that any educated Atheist could easily shoot down any argument that I could produce with my hands bound to using strictly the Scriptures. The best way we can preach to outsiders is not by approaching them and screaming religious doctrine because that makes us look like religious fanatics and quite crazy. Rather, with our actions and the choices that we make. Sometimes what we choose to do and what we choose not to do in a situation makes a huge difference in the beliefs of the people surrounding us.

 

[Born_Again]

That is the questions Christians have been asking for centuries ever since Constantine issued the Edict of Milan making Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire. I also believe in the fallibility of the Bible and that any educated Atheist could easily shoot down any argument that I could produce with my hands bound to using strictly the Scriptures. The best way we can preach to outsiders is not by approaching them and screaming religious doctrine because that makes us look like religious fanatics and quite crazy. Rather, with our actions and the choices that we make. Sometimes what we choose to do and what we choose not to do in a situation makes a huge difference in the beliefs of the people surrounding us.

I like that answer. How about this angle. Do any of you, as Christians have any examples that divine intervention could be the only reasonable explanation for something that has happened in your life? Would you use it as an argument?

 

[Phoneman777]

The accuracy, specificity, and abundancy of Bible prophecy, of which no other ancient writings can even begin to compare, proves the existence of Omnipotence, according to 2 Peter 1:19, and obliterates the competition from Buddha, Shiva, Brahma, Allah, Krishna, and all other Satanic counterfeits which prove to be such by their utter lack of the same - which is due to the fact that Satan, a creature which came perfectly from the hand of his Creator, cannot with guaranteed accuracy predict what will happen tomorrow, much less predict with flawless accuracy events which span many centuries like the incredible prophecies of Daniel 2 which defy all reason and logic.

If I told you that next Monday morning an engine from an aging Boeing 747 would come crashing through your garage and destroy your car which would result in you getting fired for being late for work one too many times, after which a mix-up at the unemployment office left you walking out with the wrong coat and pulling out from the front pocket the previous night's winning lottery ticket to the $100 M jackpot --- all of which comes true precisely as predicted --- you'd be well convinced that I had access to some mysterious source of knowledge that is other than this world. Seems as if the only prophecy that Christians are interested in today has to do with so called "prophets" among us who claim to possess this gift and are happy to unveil your future to you for a nominal fee.

 

[Born_Again]

The accuracy, specificity, and abundancy of Bible prophecy, of which no other ancient writings can even begin to compare, proves the existence of Omnipotence, according to 2 Peter 1:19, and obliterates the competition from Buddha, Shiva, Brahma, Allah, Krishna, and all other Satanic counterfeits which prove to be such by their utter lack of the same - which is due to the fact that Satan, a creature which came perfectly from the hand of his Creator, cannot with guaranteed accuracy predict what will happen tomorrow, much less predict with flawless accuracy events which span many centuries like the incredible prophecies of Daniel 2 which defy all reason and logic.

Good point. We as Christians are also the only ones who have the oldest book ever written and was not written by a "modern day" prophet. Thank you Phoneman777.

 

[stephenleonard]

There are a few examples where I believe, personally, that The Spirit was speaking to me and the outcome would have been different had He not have. However, an Atheist would normally not accept something like that. It is sort of like Paul and his letters for example. When Paul was speaking to the early churches he used The Spirit to communicate a message because the early church realized that there were errors in the Scriptures it just didn't matter because they believed that God was in the room with them and he could make a verse that was in Habakkuk communicate His will/message to you. (Most preachers today seem to have a problem with this. They preach how the words got on the page not how they come off.) However, when Paul was speaking to the people in Jerusalem he would use Scripture to communicate his message because he knew that is what he had to do for them to actually accept what he was saying and/or listen to it with an open mind. So when speaking to an Atheist you normally have to speak more of their language such as archaeological discoveries or textual criticism of early manuscripts or science (but this could be rather slippery of you unless you know what you're doing). Does that make sense?

 

[Born_Again]

There are a few examples where I believe, personally, that The Spirit was speaking to me and the outcome would have been different had He not have. However, an Atheist would normally not accept something like that. It is sort of like Paul and his letters for example. When Paul was speaking to the early churches he used The Spirit to communicate a message because the early church realized that there were errors in the Scriptures it just didn't matter because they believed that God was in the room with them and he could make a verse that was in Habakkuk communicate His will/message to you. (Most preachers today seem to have a problem with this. They preach how the words got on the page not how they come off.) However, when Paul was speaking to the people in Jerusalem he would use Scripture to communicate his message because he knew that is what he had to do for them to actually accept what he was saying and/or listen to it with an open mind. So when speaking to an Atheist you normally have to speak more of their language such as archaeological discoveries or textual criticism of early manuscripts or science (but this could be rather slippery of you unless you know what you're doing). Does that make sense?

That makes perfect sense. And you are right when speaking of comparing archaeological facts. If you don't know what you are doing it wont end well. But you are very close to what I was asking in the OP in regards to the physical evidence. Thank you!!

 

[stephenleonard]

You're welcome bud.

 

[HammerStone]

In my experience, I tend to start with determining their language. It starts by hearing the person and discerning what subjects they are approachable. For instance, is this a guy who may be more open to a philosophical argument or a girl who may be open to the need for emotional forgiveness of some major thing in her life? I am a fan of reaching each person with the gospel in a specific way in that you speak into their biographical existence and speak perhaps to their passions or interests. Paul did this whether it was the literary-philosophical arguments of Mars Hill or the sinners destructive reality of some of his experiences in Acts.

I think we as Christians must speak to the needs of the individual soul rather than just a blanket argument. Some people arrive at the cross through science whilst others might get there only after letting go of some darkness tucked away in the back of their mind. Still others may see God in music or nature. The paths vary but they will need to all end up at the foot of the cross and at Jesus as the center.

I am of the mind that some point, the Holy Spirit breaks into the person, so our job is just to plant the seeds for that and be open to where God leads us to go. As Stephen said above, a lot of the stage is set by how we live and act. Preach and teach, be ready in season, but God gives the increase to a willing and humble heart!

The problem with arguing explicitly through a particular field in science, textual criticism, or archaeology is the same problem that my high school biology teacher professed when he said that half of what I teach you will be a lie. Rather than being an intentional lie, he meant simply that our understanding of the subject would progress and new discoveries would modify or overturn what we previously thought. With this in mind, I think we can wade into dangerous territories linking God to a scientific discovery that we may not fully comprehend or can only share on an oversimplified level.

For instance, can I tell a ton from archaeology? Absolutely! However, will someone be able to reconstruct our lives totally in 500, 1000 or 10000 years? No, as there will likely not be any remains of some products and tools I use on a daily basis, so those people (or whatever they may be!) will only be able to infer from what remains. They might be able to look at my bone and determine that I had a wrist fracture, perhaps even down to the age when it happened, but they will not likely be able to ascertain exactly what the cast looked like or what situation led to the fracture. They might not even have a record of the hospital bill. They'll have remains to infer things, but they may never know that I went to a doctor's office first.

Will someone come along and prove we failed to account for a factor in radiocarbon dating? Perhaps...perhaps not. Maybe the misunderstanding lies not with the dating, but in our interpretation of the accompanying passage? If we are basing this person's faith on this, that's a fickle place to be. I find that God can use a plank to bring a person into the faith, and that they will mature in understanding over time, but not all planks are equal, and we should be careful to construct a hyper-rational faith.

I like that answer. How about this angle. Do any of you, as Christians have any examples that divine intervention could be the only reasonable explanation for something that has happened in your life? Would you use it as an argument?

Well, not to one up you here, but we do have that in a sense, and his name is Jesus. Yet people who stood there right in front of the Son of God remained hardened in unbelief. I mean I've had dreams and happenings that I would say was clearly God, but others would say was bad pizza or coincidence. We all have a confirmation bias.

 

[7angels]

. How about this angle. Do any of you, as Christians have any examples that divine intervention could be the only reasonable explanation for something that has happened in your life? Would you use it as an argument?

yes i have had this happen to me and to a lot of others that i know and do not know. for example when you actually grow out arms and legs so that both are now the same length proves that healing is for today. how about seeing ms cured instantly? or having a person you do not know walk up to you and tell you your life story in a nutshell and then proceed to tell you that God told them these things and God wants to free you from your circumstances(this way works really well on unbelievers that i have seen). or how about seeing people get out of wheelchairs who have never walked before or people that fall down under the power and have an encounter with God? how about seeing gold dust(aka glory dust) and perfect gems appear out of nowhere during a service where God is moving. what about people who have been translated to different parts of the world instantly? how about sitting down for a meal knowing you have no food but after grace is said food appears? i could keep on listing supernatural events and things that take place. these kinds of things will convert even the most people to christianity because these supernatural things are used to confirm that what the Word teaches is true.

God bless

 

[Wormwood]

Traditional approaches have been the ontological argument, the cosmological argument, the teleological argument and the historical argument.

 

[brakelite]

I would approach an atheist who professes his unbelief to me like this:

Can you describe the God you don’t believe in? Who is he, this God you believe does not exist? What is he like? What are his characteristics; what manner of nature is he, that you find so disagreeable that you refuse to acknowledge any possibility of his existence? I ask these questions because I strongly suspect that the vast majority of unbelievers or doubters would present a fairly similar description, agreeing with one another on many points. Now I am a Christian, and have been for many years. I believe in the Bible, I belong to a recognized global denomination, yet I am going to say something that would likely surprise you.
If the God you would describe to me is anything like the God that fits the description that the vast majority of Christendom believes in, then you may describe me as an atheist too, for I do not believe in such a God either.
This god you would describe….does he rule with absolute supreme authority and sovereignty over all creation, whose word is final and brooks no discussion or argument?
Has he already decided before we were even born who is to go to heaven and who to hell? Are our lives wholly predestined and there is nothing we can say or do that might change whatever destiny god has chosen for us? Do we have no say in the matter of whether we are to burn for all eternity or not?
Does he simply rule with total authority without any to dare even question him or challenge his sense of justice and fairness? Does this god somehow make those in heaven happy and eternally joyful despite knowing that somewhere “below” there are loved ones suffering in totally inexorable pain and those in heaven are actually happy and joyful about that and ‘bite the bullet’ so to speak and trust that God knows what he is doing and that after a short life here doing whatever sin is worthy of a continuing torture forever?
If this is the god you don’t believe in, then I am with you. Count me an atheist also. “But you’re a Christian” you say. Yes, I am. But despite what you may have heard, and despite what the majority of churches actually teach, the above does not in any way describe the God that I do believe in. In fact, the God I believe in is exactly the opposite, the exact antithesis of the traditionally accepted view of God which if anything like that described above, is tyrannical, despotic, dictatorial, and a monster. And like you, I would rather have nothing to do with such a god.
So allow me if you will to offer the alternative. A God of absolute undiluted self-sacrificial love. A love for man that is the most wonderful and all encompassing and unconditional in every way possible? A God who would, in fact did, give up His own immortality rather than live in eternity without you! A God who in every sense always does the right thing for everyone…justly and fairly treating all with the same respect and compassion with no favoritism.
A God who gives to every man and woman the right and the freedom to choose their own destiny, and who would never torture any who would choose to not respond to Him.
Friend, the God I believe in is not out to threaten, control, or damn us to an eternal torture chamber. Like you, I find such a god utterly repulsive.
But a God who is perfectly good, just, and merciful to everyone at all times and who seeks only the good for all who would come to Him in faith, is this a God you would like to believe in? A God who revels in beauty, a God who loves peace, a God who created the very best of what we see in the beauty of nature about us? A God of such love that there is not a tinge or suggestion of selfishness in Him? Would you like to think that this is the kind of God you could accept?
“For God so loves you, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever would believe in Him would not perish, but have eternal life.” (John 3:16)