Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[Wrangler]

I've seen it over and over, though I know you don't.

OMG! Always, you see outward, way too narcissistic to look inward.

Wait for it …

Much Love!

 

[face2face]

I don’t know how trinitarians cannot see this?! He who acts for the fury of the wrath of God IS NOT God.

Imagine how this verse might be constructed if the trinity was Biblical? God the Son will tread the wine press of the fury of the wrath of the trinitarian God, who all 3 are God almighty.

Back to Zechariah

"there shall be one Yahweh, and his name one" Zech 14:9

This depicts the fulfilment of the purpose of the Gospel (John 17:17-23); the complete unity of Christ and his saints so that together they might bear and manifest the divine name - Rev. 3:12; Isa. 30:27.

Like, once the scales fall from @marks @ @Johann eyes they will lament all the error they posted on this forum.

A day of weeping - terrible

F2F

Note: Doesn't the Lords prayer in John 17 just come to life!

 

[APAK]

Numbers 16:35-38 (ESV):

35 And fire came out from the Lord and consumed the 250 men offering the incense.
36 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,
37 "Tell Eleazar the son of Aaron the priest to take up the censers out of the blaze. Then scatter the fire far and wide, for they have become holy.
38 As for the censers of the men who sinned at the cost of their lives, let them be made into hammered plates as a covering for the altar, for they offered them before the Lord, and they became holy. Thus they shall be a sign to the people of Israel."

@Wrangler @APAK

Do you know what is significant about this section of Scripture that is higlighted in a Psalm - its a beautiful lesson! Off subject!

F2F

The royal priesthood and the chain of priests and their duties for God is set and they must be legitimate and upheld, and no posers allowed to perform as a priest of God. They challenged the authority of God.

 

[face2face]

The royal priesthood and the chain of priests and their duties for God is set and they must be legitimate and upheld, and no posers allowed to perform as a priest of God. They challenged the authority of God.

Now come over with me to Psalm 73

Read verses 1-16

73:1 Certainly God is good to Israel, and to those whose motives are pure! 73:2 But as for me, my feet almost slipped; my feet almost slid out from under me. 73:3 For I envied those who are proud, as I observed the prosperity of the wicked. 73:4 For they suffer no pain; their bodies are strong and well-fed. 73:5 They are immune to the trouble common to men; they do not suffer as other men do. 73:6 Arrogance is their necklace, and violence their clothing. 73:7 Their prosperity causes them to do wrong; their thoughts are sinful. 73:8 They mock and say evil things; they proudly threaten violence. 73:9 They speak as if they rule in heaven, and lay claim to the earth. 73:10 Therefore they have more than enough food to eat, and even suck up the water of the sea. 73:11 They say, “How does God know what we do? Is the sovereign one aware of what goes on?” 73:12 Take a good look! This is what the wicked are like, those who always have it so easy and get richer and richer. 73:13 I concluded, “Surely in vain I have kept my motives pure and maintained a pure lifestyle. 73:14 I suffer all day long, and am punished every morning.” 73:15 If I had publicized these thoughts, I would have betrayed your loyal followers. 73:16 When I tried to make sense of this, it was troubling to me. Ps 73:1–16.

Let me know once you have read it!

 

[APAK]

Now come over with me to Psalm 73

Read verses 1-16

73:1 Certainly God is good to Israel, and to those whose motives are pure! 73:2 But as for me, my feet almost slipped; my feet almost slid out from under me. 73:3 For I envied those who are proud, as I observed the prosperity of the wicked. 73:4 For they suffer no pain; their bodies are strong and well-fed. 73:5 They are immune to the trouble common to men; they do not suffer as other men do. 73:6 Arrogance is their necklace, and violence their clothing. 73:7 Their prosperity causes them to do wrong; their thoughts are sinful. 73:8 They mock and say evil things; they proudly threaten violence. 73:9 They speak as if they rule in heaven, and lay claim to the earth. 73:10 Therefore they have more than enough food to eat, and even suck up the water of the sea. 73:11 They say, “How does God know what we do? Is the sovereign one aware of what goes on?” 73:12 Take a good look! This is what the wicked are like, those who always have it so easy and get richer and richer. 73:13 I concluded, “Surely in vain I have kept my motives pure and maintained a pure lifestyle. 73:14 I suffer all day long, and am punished every morning.” 73:15 If I had publicized these thoughts, I would have betrayed your loyal followers. 73:16 When I tried to make sense of this, it was troubling to me. Ps 73:1–16.

Let me know once you have read it!

I did read it..
...although F2F respectively, I must leave the site for now....my wife has health issues and I need to get sleep when I can.

.and it gets broken up....

Please though, outline you plan and homework for me on this subject. I will gladly complete it sometime in the morning.

I hope I can get at least a B grade....

 

[Brakelite]

there is not a single scripture that declares the FATHER begot the WORD in the past

Christ is our Creator, as testified by the holy Spirit through His prophets...
Immediately following the oft-quoted text which says that Christ, the Word, is God, we read that "all things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made." John 1:3. Comment cannot make this statement any clearer than it is, therefore we pass to the words of Hebrews 1:1-4, "God...hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the majesty on high; being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they."
Still more emphatic than this are the words of the apostle Paul to the Colossians. Speaking of Christ as the One through whom we have redemption, he describes Him as the One "who is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of every creature; for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers; all things were created by him, and for him; and he is before all things, and by him all things consist." Colossians 1:15-17.
This wonderful text should be carefully studied and often contemplated. It leaves not a thing in the universe that Christ did not create. He made everything in heaven, and everything on earth; He made everything that can be seen, and everything that cannot be seen; the thrones and dominions,and the principalities and the powers in heaven, all depend upon Him for existence. And as He is before all things and their Creator, so by him do all things consist or hold together. This is equivalent to what is said in Hebrews 1:3, that He upholds all things by the word of His power. It wIas by a word that the heavens were made, and that same word holds them in their place, and preserves them from destruction.
We cannot possibly omit in this connection Isaiah 40:25, 26: "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One. Lift up your eyes on high and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number; he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth." Or, as the Jewish translation more forcibly renders it, "from him, who is great in might, and strong in power, not one escapeth." That Christ is the Holy One who thus calls the host of heaven by name and holds them in their place is evident from other portions of the same chapter. He is the One before whom it was said, "Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God." He is the One who comes with a strong hand, having His reward with Him; the One who, like a shepherd, feeds His flock, carrying the lambs in His bosom.

 

[Brakelite]

Continued from above...

One more statement concerning Christ as Creator must suffice. It is the testimony of the Father Himself. In the first chapter of Hebrews, we read that God has spoken to us by His Son; that He said of Him, "Let all the angels of God worship him" that of the angels He saith, "Who maketh his angels spirits, and His ministers a flame of fire," but that He says to the Son, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Thy kingdom." And God says further, "Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of thine hands." Hebrews 1:8-10. Here we find the Father addressing the Son as God, and saying to Him, Thou hast laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Thy hands. When the Father Himself gives this honor to the Son, what is man, that he should withhold it? With this we may well leave the direct testimony concerning the Divinity of Christ and the fact that He is the Creator of all things.
A word of caution may be necessary here. Let no one imagine that we would exalt Christ at the expense of the Father or would ignore the Father. That cannot be, for their interests are one. We honor the Father in honoring the Son. We are mindful of Paul's words, that "to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him" (1 Corinthians 8:6); just as we have already quoted, that it was by Him that God made the worlds.
All things proceed ultimately from God, the Father; even Christ Himself proceeded and came forth from the Father, but it has pleased the Father that in Him should all fullness dwell, and that He should be the direct, immediate Agent in every act of creation. Our object in this investigation is to set forth Christ's rightful position of equality with the Father, in order that His power to redeem may be the better appreciated.

 

[face2face]

I did read it..
...although F2F respectively, I must leave the site for now....my wife has health issues and I need to get sleep when I can.

.and it gets broken up....

Please though, outline you plan and homework for me on this subject. I will gladly complete it sometime in the morning.

I hope I can get at least a B grade....

Thoughts are with you and your wife.

When you return the lesson will await you...

Then I (Asaph) entered the santurary of God’s temple, and understood the destiny of the wicked Ps 73:17.

What did Asaph see in the Santurary of the Temple?

Answer: The covering of the Altar made from those censers of the 250 wicked men who were taken out of the way (perished)!

Numbers 16:35-38 (ESV):

35 And fire came out from the Lord and consumed the 250 men offering the incense.
36 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,
37 "Tell Eleazar the son of Aaron the priest to take up the censers out of the blaze. Then scatter the fire far and wide, for they have become holy.
38 As for the censers of the men who sinned at the cost of their lives, let them be made into hammered plates as a covering for the altar, for they offered them before the Lord, and they became holy. Thus they shall be a sign to the people of Israel."

The covering of the Altar is the only furniture that was able to remind Asaph of the end of the wicked!

The power of bringing what has been and gone before us into a real life lesson!

F2F

 

[David in NJ]

I did read it..
...although F2F respectively, I must leave the site for now....my wife has health issues and I need to get sleep when I can.

.and it gets broken up....

Please though, outline you plan and homework for me on this subject. I will gladly complete it sometime in the morning.

I hope I can get at least a B grade....

Prayer being lifted UP for your wife

 

[face2face]

Continued from above...

One more statement concerning Christ as Creator must suffice. It is the testimony of the Father Himself. In the first chapter of Hebrews, we read that God has spoken to us by His Son; that He said of Him,

Should be enough to show you how Almighty God Created the Physical and Spiritual Realms.
It was the Lord in God's Mind by which He has done all things in this Creation.
F2F

 

[face2face]

Christ is our Creator, as testified by the holy Spirit through His prophets...
Immediately following the oft-quoted text which says that Christ, the Word, is God, we read that "all things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made." John 1:3. Comment cannot make this statement any clearer than it is, therefore we pass to the words of Hebrews 1:1-4, "God...hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the majesty on high; being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they."
Still more emphatic than this are the words of the apostle Paul to the Colossians. Speaking of Christ as the One through whom we have redemption, he describes Him as the One "who is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of every creature; for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers; all things were created by him, and for him; and he is before all things, and by him all things consist." Colossians 1:15-17.
This wonderful text should be carefully studied and often contemplated. It leaves not a thing in the universe that Christ did not create. He made everything in heaven, and everything on earth; He made everything that can be seen, and everything that cannot be seen; the thrones and dominions,and the principalities and the powers in heaven, all depend upon Him for existence. And as He is before all things and their Creator, so by him do all things consist or hold together. This is equivalent to what is said in Hebrews 1:3, that He upholds all things by the word of His power. It wIas by a word that the heavens were made, and that same word holds them in their place, and preserves them from destruction.
We cannot possibly omit in this connection Isaiah 40:25, 26: "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One. Lift up your eyes on high and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number; he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth." Or, as the Jewish translation more forcibly renders it, "from him, who is great in might, and strong in power, not one escapeth." That Christ is the Holy One who thus calls the host of heaven by name and holds them in their place is evident from other portions of the same chapter. He is the One before whom it was said, "Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God." He is the One who comes with a strong hand, having His reward with Him; the One who, like a shepherd, feeds His flock, carrying the lambs in His bosom.

You are still missing the argument Brakelite.

The argument in Hebrews 1 is that the Son has inherited a name superior to that of the angels (Hebrews 1:4). The reference to the Mosaic "heavens and earth" serves as a strong point, since angels were the ones who administered this system (READ Acts 7:38, 53; Gal. 3:19; Heb. 2:2). This system, which was to be folded up like a garment by the Son, highlights why the Son must possess a more excellent name than the angels. The writer is showing you that Christ did not pre-exist but became better than the Angels because of the New Creation God formed in His Son. ALL OF IT IS NEW, including Christ

F2F

 

[face2face]

@Brakelite

Walk through these points for your consideration:

The Son is "appointed heir" (vs. 2), meaning his position of power and authority is granted to him, not inherent. It is through "inheritance" (vs. 4) that he has received a more excellent name, not by being, as often assumed, a co-equal person within the Godhead.

"By whom ('through whom ???) he made the worlds [Grk: aion]." The term "worlds" does not refer to the physical earth and planets, but to the different ages or dispensations on the earth. The Greek word translated as "worlds" is not the typical "kosmos," but "aion," which means "age," "indefinite time," or "dispensation."

Jesus Christ is the central figure of all ages—whether antediluvian (before the flood), patriarchal (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc.), Mosaic, Gentile, or Millennial. The Seed was promised to Eve (Gen. 3:15), and Abraham looked forward to Christ's day by faith (John 8:56; cf. Gal. 3:8). Even the animal sacrifices under the Law of Moses were effective because they pointed forward to the ultimate sacrifice to be offered once for all time (Hebrews 10:4, 10). The law acted as a schoolmaster (custodian) to lead men to Christ (Gal. 3:24). The "worlds" (ages) were made or established through Christ, as it is in Him that they find their meaning and fulfillment.

Although Christ was the "chief cornerstone" (1 Peter 2:6) in God's divine plan, "foreordained before the foundation of the world" (1 Peter 1:20), He was not revealed or manifested until "these last times" (2 Peter 1:20). He did not have a personal existence until He was born of the Virgin Mary (Luke 1:31-35).

F2F

 

[Brakelite]

For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our king; he will save us." Isaiah 33:22.
We have now to consider Christ in another character, yet not another. It is one that naturally results from His position as Creator, for the One who creates must certainly have authority to guide and control. We read in John 5:22, 23 the words of Christ, that "the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son; that all men should honor the Son even as they honor the Father." As Christ is the manifestation of the Father in creation, so is He the manifestation of the Father in giving and executing the law. Herein lies the grounds for Jesus's declaration that He is Lord of the Sabbath. Not only negate He created and established the Sabbath at creation, but also beverages He was the one Who have Moses the tables of stone written with His own finger. A few texts of Scripture will suffice to prove this.
In Numbers 21:4-6 we have the partial record of an incident that took place while the children of Israel were in the wilderness. Let us read it. "And they journeyed from Mount Hor by the way of the Red Sea, to compass the land of Edom; and the soul of the people was much discouraged because of the way. And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread. And the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died." The people spoke against God and against Moses, saying, Why have ye brought us up into the wilderness? They found fault with their Leader. This is why they were destroyed by serpents. Now read the words of the apostle Paul concerning this same event:
"Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents." 1 Corinthians 10:9. What does this prove? That the Leader against whom they were murmuring was Christ. This is further proved by the fact that when Moses cast in his lot with Israel, refusing to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, he esteemed the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt. Hebrews 11:26. Read also 1 Corinthians 10:4, where Paul says that the fathers "did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them; and that Rock was Christ." So, then, Christ was the Leader of Israel from Egypt.
The third chapter of Hebrews makes clear this same fact. Here we are told to consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus, who was faithful in all His house, not as a servant, but as a Son over His own house. Verses 1-6. Then we are told that we are His house if we hold fast our confidence to the end. Wherefore we are exhorted by the Holy Ghost to hear His voice and not to harden our hearts, as the fathers did in the wilderness. "For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end; while it is said, Today if ye will hear His [Christ's] voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke; howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he [Christ] grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness?" Verses 14-17. Here again Christ is set forth as the Leader and Commander of Israel in their forty years' sojourn in the wilderness.

The fact that Christ is a part of the Godhead, possessing all the attributes of Divinity, being the equal of the Father in all respects (except rank), as Creator and Lawgiver, is the only force there is in the atonement. It is this alone which makes redemption a possibility. Christ died "that he might bring us to God" (1 Peter 3:18), but if He lacked one iota of being equal to God, He could not bring us to Him. Divinity means having the attributes of Deity. If Christ were not Divine, then we should have only a human sacrifice. It matters not, even if it be granted that Christ was the highest created intelligence in the universe; in that case He would be a subject, owing allegiance to the law, without ability to do any more than His own duty. He could have no righteousness to impart to others. There is an infinite distance between the highest angel ever created and God; therefore, the highest angel could not lift fallen man up and make him partaker of the Divine nature. Angels can minister; God only can redeem. Thanks be to God that we are saved "through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus," in whom dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily and who is, therefore, able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by Him.

 

[Brakelite]

I did read it..
...although F2F respectively, I must leave the site for now....my wife has health issues and I need to get sleep when I can.

.and it gets broken up....

Please though, outline you plan and homework for me on this subject. I will gladly complete it sometime in the morning.

I hope I can get at least a B grade....

Sorry your wife is poorly bro, God bless you both, that she may heal and that you may rest.

 

[David in NJ]

Continued from above...

One more statement concerning Christ as Creator must suffice. It is the testimony of the Father Himself. In the first chapter of Hebrews, we read that God has spoken to us by His Son; that He said of Him, "Let all the angels of God worship him" that of the angels He saith, "Who maketh his angels spirits, and His ministers a flame of fire," but that He says to the Son, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Thy kingdom." And God says further, "Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of thine hands." Hebrews 1:8-10. Here we find the Father addressing the Son as God, and saying to Him, Thou hast laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Thy hands. When the Father Himself gives this honor to the Son, what is man, that he should withhold it? With this we may well leave the direct testimony concerning the Divinity of Christ and the fact that He is the Creator of all things.
A word of caution may be necessary here. Let no one imagine that we would exalt Christ at the expense of the Father or would ignore the Father. That cannot be, for their interests are one. We honor the Father in honoring the Son. We are mindful of Paul's words, that "to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him" (1 Corinthians 8:6); just as we have already quoted, that it was by Him that God made the worlds.
All things proceed ultimately from God, the Father; even Christ Himself proceeded and came forth from the Father, but it has pleased the Father that in Him should all fullness dwell, and that He should be the direct, immediate Agent in every act of creation. Our object in this investigation is to set forth Christ's rightful position of equality with the Father, in order that His power to redeem may be the better appreciated.

GREAT

Now, why did you say(yesterday) that the FATHER begot Christ in Eternity past??? = Which is completely false

 

[David in NJ]

@Brakelite

My sun is at your place now - Good Night

 

[face2face]

For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our king; he will save us." Isaiah 33:22.
We have now to consider Christ in another character, yet not another. It is one that naturally results from His position as Creator, for the One who creates must certainly have authority to guide and control. We read in John 5:22, 23 the words of Christ, that "the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son; that all men should honor the Son even as they honor the Father." As Christ is the manifestation of the Father in creation, so is He the manifestation of the Father in giving and executing the law. Herein lies the grounds for Jesus's declaration that He is Lord of the Sabbath. Not only negate He created and established the Sabbath at creation, but also beverages He was the one Who have Moses the tables of stone written with His own finger. A few texts of Scripture will suffice to prove this.

Said respecfully, there is too much error to deal with so lets start with Christ being Lord of the Sabbath.

This is Almighty Gods Work and None other!!!

This is why the ceremonies (Law) have ceased because their ultimate fulfilment has been revealed! “Lord of Sabbath”

"For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath."

You missed that Brakelite? - didn't you? 80 times he gives himself that title!

“Son of man” Look up Psa 8:4 (Adam) Lord of the first Sabbath! as per Gen 1:26.

God raised up a Son from Adam and made him Lord of the Sabbath!

Now WHO was the Sabbath made for Brakelite?

“Sabbath made for man” Mk 2:23 Christ is the representative MAN!!! (Not a God, not and Angel, not a god-man!!!)

Boy you are really getting a lesson here!

F2F

 

[Brakelite]

You are still missing the argument Brakelite.

The argument in Hebrews 1 is that the Son has inherited a name superior to that of the angels (Hebrews 1:4). The reference to the Mosaic "heavens and earth" serves as a strong point, since angels were the ones who administered this system (READ Acts 7:38, 53; Gal. 3:19; Heb. 2:2). This system, which was to be folded up like a garment by the Son, highlights why the Son must possess a more excellent name than the angels. The writer is showing you that Christ did not pre-exist but became better than the Angels because of the New Creation God formed in His Son. ALL OF IT IS NEW, including Christ

F2F

The view in question is often built upon a misconception of a single text, Revelation 3:14: "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God." This is wrongly interpreted to mean that Christ is the first being that God created—that God's work of creation began with Him. But this view antagonizes the scripture which declares that Christ Himself created all things. To say that God began His work of creation by creating Christ is to leave Christ entirely out of the work of creation.
The word rendered "beginning" is arche, meaning, as well, "head" or "chief." It occurs in the name of the Greek ruler, Archon, in archbishop and the word archangel. Take this last word. Christ is the archangel. See Jude 9; 1 Thessalonians 4:16; John 5:28, 29; Daniel 10:21.
This does not mean that He is the first of the angels, for He is not an angel but is above them. Hebrews 1:4. It means that He is the chief or prince of the angels, just as an archbishop is the head of the bishops. Christ is the commander of the angels. See Revelation 19:11-14. He created the angels. Colossians 1:16. And so the statement that He is the beginning or head of the creation of God means that in Him creation had its beginning; that, as He Himself says, He is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Revelation 21:6; 22:13. He is the source whence all things have their origin.

Neither should we imagine that Christ is a creature, because Paul calls Him (Colossians 1:15) "The First-born of every creature" for the very next verses show Him to be Creator and not a creature. "For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things were created by Him, and for Him and He is before all things, and by Him all things consist." Now if He created everything that was ever created and existed before all created things, it is evident that He Himself is not among created things. He is above all creation and not a part of it.
The Scriptures declare that Christ is "the only begotten son of God." He is begotten, not created. As to when He was begotten, it is not for us to inquire, nor could our minds grasp it if we were told. The prophet Micah tells us all that we can know about it in these words, "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall He come forth unto Me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity." Micah 5:2, margin. There was a time when Christ proceeded forth and came from God, from the bosom of the Father (John 8:42; 1:18), but that time was so far back in the days of eternity that to finite comprehension it is practically without beginning.

But the point is that Christ is a begotten Son and not a created subject. He has by inheritance a more excellent name than the angels; He is "a Son over His own house." Hebrews 1:4; 3:6. And since He is the only-begotten son of God, He is of the very substance and nature of God and possesses by birth all the attributes of God, for the Father was pleased that His Son should be the express image of His Person, the brightness of His glory, and filled with all the fullness of the Godhead. So He has "life in Himself." He possesses immortality in His own right and can confer immortality upon others. Life inheres in Him, so that it cannot be taken from Him, but having voluntarily laid it down, He can take it again. His words are these: "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." John 10:17, 18.
If anyone springs the old cavil, how Christ could be immortal and yet die, we have only to say that we do not know. We make no pretensions of fathoming infinity. We cannot understand how Christ could be God in the beginning, sharing equal glory with the Father before the world was and still be born a babe in Bethlehem. The mystery of the crucifixion and resurrection is but the mystery of the incarnation. We cannot understand how Christ could be God and still become man for our sake. We cannot understand how He could create the world from nothing, nor how He can raise the dead nor yet how it is that He works by His Spirit in our own hearts; yet we believe and know these things. It should be sufficient for us to accept as true those things which God has revealed without stumbling over things that the mind of an angel cannot fathom. So we delight in the infinite power and glory which the Scriptures declare belong to Christ, without worrying our finite minds in a vain attempt to explain the infinite.

Finally, we know the Divine unity of the Father and the Son from the fact that both have the same Spirit. Paul, after saying that they that are in the flesh cannot please God, continues: "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Romans 8:9. Here we find that the Holy Spirit is both the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ. Christ "is in the bosom of the Father" being by nature of the very substance of God and having life in Himself. He is properly called Jehovah, the self-existent One and is thus styled in Jeremiah 23:5, 6, where it is said that the righteous Branch, who shall execute judgment and justice in the earth, shall be known by the name of Jehovah-tsidekenu—THE LORD, OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Let no one, therefore, who honors Christ at all, give Him less honor than He gives the Father, for this would be to dishonor the Father by just so much, but let all, with the angels in heaven, worship the Son, having no fear that they are worshiping and serving the creature instead of the Creator.

 

[Brakelite]

@Brakelite

My sun is at your place now - Good Night

Yep, and it's hot too. 32C.

 

[face2face]

The view in question is often built upon a misconception of a single text, Revelation 3:14: "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God."

"The beginning of the creation of God"

This refers to the creation of God’s Elohim in the Age to come (Luke 20:36), with Christ being the first or the origin.

Plain & Simple so the Simple can understand it.

F2F