1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Exposing!! The Corrupt Counterfeit (NIV) Bible, Verses That Have Been Tampered With!!

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by DoveSpirit05, Jan 5, 2020.

  1. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

    Messages:
    670
    Likes Received:
    217
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Here’s Verse comparisons between the (KJV) bible and the faulty (NIV) bible.

    (KJV)
    Matthew 17:21
    However, this kind does not
    go out except by prayer
    and fasting.

    (NIV)
    Matthew 17:21
    ooopppss!! Zilch!! Whole verse
    missing, why???

    Here we see an entire verse missing from the NIV, why would you remove an entire verse out of the bible? Perhaps the writers are trying 2 hide something? Looks very suspicious 2 me!! Bible says in deu 4:2 you shall not add nor detract from the word of God.

    (KJV)
    Mark 9:29
    And he said unto them, This kind
    can come forth by nothing, but
    by prayer and fasting.

    (NIV)
    Mark 9:29
    He replied, “This kind can come out only by prayer.

    Now this is the time in the bible where the apostles in the bible couldnt cast a demon out of a child and then jesus came and cast it out of the child and the apostles then said 2 him how come we couldn't cast the demon out of the child and he said 2 them dis kind comes out by prayer and (fasting). Now in
    the (KJV) it also says prayer and (fasting) but in the (NIV) it says prayer only, why is dis?

    If you look at all through out history monks, priests and other types of religious people would fast mortify their flesh and 2 strengthen themselves spiritually so that it wud be easier for them 2 open themselves up 2 the spiritual realm and 2 communicate with God more effectively without any interference from any demonic forces then a person can perceive Gods word better.

    When we fast we de-clutter our bodies and detoxify ourselves and drain away impurities from our systems which hence frees up our minds and also allows the holy spirit 2 move through us more easily.

    Fasting is quite a big part of christianity and walking in the spirit and also quite a big part of
    deliverance ministry, jesus also said we must deny our flesh, Matthew 16:24 so why has the (NIV) taken this out of the verse? its quite an important element. it raises alot of questions?

    (KJV)
    Romans 8:1
    There is therefore now no condemnation to
    them which are in Christ Jesus, (who walk
    not after the flesh, but after the Spirit).

    (NIV)
    Romans 8:1
    Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those
    who are in Christ Jesus,

    See the difference? wheres the 2nd part of the verse in the (NIV) version? Well lets look at the 1st part. (There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus). what does it mean 2 be in christ? does it mean 2 believe in him? well even the demons believe and tremble james 2:19. does it mean 2 follow christ? well 2 follow jesus is 2 deny urself and take up ur cross stated again in Matthew 16:24. or does it mean 2 walk as christ walked?

    well the bible clearly shows that jesus walked in the spirit. Romans 8:8 Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. and we know that jesus pleased the father Matthew 17:5 "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him ".and john 8:29 the father have not left me alone coz i always do the things dat please him.

    therefore we can conclude dat being in christ is 2 be in the spirit as he was, we must worship God in spirit and in truth john 4:24 also pauls main emphasis through out the NT is to be born again
    (circumcised in the heart) and 2 be in the spirit!! gal 5:16. alot of people are being mislead by a tampering of the word and think their ok with God as long
    as they just believe in christ without any form of repentance which is very evident in ur
    average (so called christian) 2day! hence leaving dem with the idea dat they can also (sin) but call on jesus and its ok! its because of deception like dis dat many people are dammed and on their way 2 hell unfortunately Matthew 7:13

    (KJV)
    Romans 10:17
    So then faith cometh by hearing, and
    hearing by the word of God

    (NIV)
    Romans 10:17
    Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message,
    and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

    here we have 2 completely different paragraphs. "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" how does a person get saved? dont they have 2 hear the word!! and wat is the bible? isnt it Gods word? and isnt jesus christ the word dat became flesh? so dat would make the bible all about christ!! so why does the (NIV) say " hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ".

    so wats dis so called message dat the (NIV) is talking about? i cant find it, i mean there are tones of messages in the bible anyway, some of dem are prophecys of jesus christ!! some are parables and some are just some other prophetic talk.

    Anyway faith doesnt come by "hearing the message" faith comes by hearing the gospel which is the (good news) and the whole word of God which is the bible. so once again another twisting of the scriptures again!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
  2. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

    Messages:
    670
    Likes Received:
    217
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Sorry needs editing!!
     
  3. Willie T

    Willie T Heaven Sent Staff Member

    Messages:
    5,955
    Likes Received:
    7,497
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I found this interesting (If you REALLY want to know why it wasn't included.):
    Matthew 17:21 The Passion Translation (TPT)

    21 But this kind of demon is cast out only through prayer and fasting.”[
    a]

    Footnotes:
    [a]
    Matthew 17:21 As translated from the Hebrew Matthew, Aramaic, and some Greek manuscripts. Many reliable Greek manuscripts do not have this verse, and it is not included in many modern translations.
     
  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,398
    Likes Received:
    8,182
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    This is MISINFORMATION, DISINFORMATION, and DECEPTION. That should have said "unreliable" rather than "reliable". And as we see below, only three corrupt manuscripts have omitted this verse.

    "Consider our LORD'S solemn words in Mtt. xvii. 21,—“But this kind
    goeth not out save by prayer and fasting,”—12 words left out by the R. V. [Revised Version of 1881], though witnessed to by all the Copies but 3: by the Latin, Syriac, Coptic, and Armenian Versions: and by the following Fathers:—(1) Origen, (2) Tertullian, (3) the Syriac Clement, (4) the Syriac Canons of Eusebius, (5) Athanasius, (6) Basil, (7) Ambrose, (8) Juvencus, (9) Chrysostom, (10) Opus imp., (11) Hilary, (12) Augustine, (13) J. Damascene, and others. Then (it will be asked), why have the Revisionists left them out? Because (we answer) they have been misled by B [Codex Vaticanus]."
    The Revision Revised by John William Burgon, p. 206.

    All the modern versions have slavishly followed the corrupted Revised Version of Westcott & Hort. And this is not the only egregious blunder of the NIV. There are hundreds (for those who care to look).
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
    Stan B likes this.
  5. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

    Messages:
    670
    Likes Received:
    217
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    That's a lie, the new testament was translated from the coynia greek, to all none greek bibles I have the greek translation, the greek word for fasting is here:

    nēsteia

    The KJV translates Strong's G3521 in the following manner: fasting (7x), feast (1x).
    Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

    1. a fasting, fast
      1. a voluntary, as a religious exercise
        1. of private fasting

        2. the public fast as prescribed by the Mosaic Law and kept yearly on the great day of atonement, the tenth of the month of Tisri (the month Tisri comprises a part of our September and October); the fast accordingly, occurred in the autumn when navigation was usually dangerous on account of storms
      2. a fasting caused by want or poverty

      3. Strong’s Definitions G3522; abstinence (from lack of food, or voluntary and religious); specially, the fast of the Day of Atonement:—fast(-ing).
     
  6. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,934
    Likes Received:
    840
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    This is the real point, corrupt Alexandrian texts that Wescott & Hort pushed in 1881 as being more accurate than the Textus Receptus, simply because the Alexandrian texts were older.

    This is the reason why there are so many Scriptures in the KJV (Textus Receptus for the NT) missing in the NIV (Alexandrian texts for the NT). It's because they were taken from two totally different sets of Greek New Testament texts.
     
    DoveSpirit05 and Enoch111 like this.
  7. Willie T

    Willie T Heaven Sent Staff Member

    Messages:
    5,955
    Likes Received:
    7,497
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Did the disciples not pray? I think they did. All the time... about everything. So, it is reasonable to believe that they had already tried to chase demons out with praying, something they did all the time. Jesus told them they also needed to add FASTING. He knew they were ALREADY praying.

    It seems that people writing a manuscript, ANY manuscript, would include all of Jesus' words in all of their manuscripts. And, if I looked at those same manuscripts a couple of thousand years later, and found that some had words in them that others didn't, I think I would only repeat what they ALL said. Would you put in words that were not present in all manuscripts?

    Suppose the KJV had NOT included the word, "prayer", and the NIV HAD put "prayer" in? I think we all know praying and fasting were probably both needed. So, what would you do then? And aren't there things included in the NIV that are not mentioned in the KJV? I think I have heard complaints that this is so.

    Chances are, we are just hearing whining for the sake of whining.
     
    Nancy likes this.
  8. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,934
    Likes Received:
    840
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
  9. reformed1689

    reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,213
    Likes Received:
    1,133
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Actually this is flat out false.
     
    Willie T likes this.
  10. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,398
    Likes Received:
    8,182
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    For those who choose to be WILFULLY BLIND while deceiving others.

    Obviously you have no clue about this matter, so it's time you did some serious investigation instead of slavishly following Westcott & Hort.
     
  11. reformed1689

    reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,213
    Likes Received:
    1,133
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    If you think all modern translations come from Westcott and Hort it is not me who is woefully ignorant on this matter.
     
    SovereignGrace likes this.
  12. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,398
    Likes Received:
    8,182
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Not only that but most Christians do not even understand that this handful of corrupt manuscripts -- Aleph (Sinaiticus), A (Alexandrinus) B (Vaticanus), C (Ephraemi Rescriptus), and D (Bezae) were corrupted by Gnostic heretics to present their false teachings.

    For W & H Aleph and B were more precious than hundreds of others simply because they happened to be older. And the only reason they survived is because they were discarded by the discerning Christians. Indeed Tischendorf found Sinaiticus in the wastebasket reserved for kindling by the monks at the monastery on Mount Sinai!
     
    Davy and DoveSpirit05 like this.
  13. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,398
    Likes Received:
    8,182
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Unfortunately, you are woefully ignorant about this whole subject. Wilfully blind, willingly deceived, and woefully ignorant.
     
    DoveSpirit05 likes this.
  14. reformed1689

    reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,213
    Likes Received:
    1,133
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    No, you have drank the kool-aid of the KJVO crowd who puts out this nonsense without fact checking anything. I would suggest you watch the documentary "Fragments of Truth"
     
    SovereignGrace likes this.
  15. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

    Messages:
    670
    Likes Received:
    217
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    They did a deliberate falsification of the text for dogmatic purposes, also known 4 their false Textual criticism
    which is a branch of textual scholarship, theology, and literary criticism that is concerned with the identification of textual variants in either manuscripts or printed books to make their translation look superior. They also didn't believe in God, they hated God and may even also have been devil worshipers.
     
  16. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,934
    Likes Received:
    840
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    No, it's not false. Thanks for letting us all know the agenda you've come here with, whether you are deceived and just don't know any better, or whether you do.
     
  17. reformed1689

    reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,213
    Likes Received:
    1,133
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I've actually studied the issue.
     
    SovereignGrace likes this.
  18. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,962
    Likes Received:
    3,265
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    This is all the result of God Himself confounding "all language" (even the scriptures) at Babel, an order that has not been rescinded. Thus, the scriptures must be "spiritually discerned" 1 Corinthians 2:14...which is the reason for such discrepancies, and the plan.
     
    Heart2Soul likes this.
  19. ReChoired

    ReChoired Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,033
    Likes Received:
    234
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The footnote is quite misleading:

    "... [Uncials] Aleph-2; C; D; E; F; G; H; K; L; M; O; S; U; V; W; X; Y
    Gamma; Delta; Pi; Sigma; Phi; Omega

    Cursives: MAJORITY; fam 1,13
    Old Latin: (a); aur; (b); (c) d; f; ff2; g1; l; (n); q; r1,2; Vulgate
    Syriac: (peshitta) (harclean)
    Coptic: bohairic-pt; mae; Armenian; Ethopic-ppl
    Also extant in 047; 055; 0211 ..." - A Closer Look; Early Manuscripts & The AV by Jack Moorman; page 68​

    ECF:

    "... PSEUDO-CLEMENT OF ROME, Concerning Virginity (I 8:59)
    ORIGEN, Matthew (I 10:479)
    AMBROSE, Letters (III 10:459)

    -------------------
    MK. 9:29 "This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting". The ANPF indexes the quotations to Matthew. ..." - Early Church Fathers And The Authorized Version, by Jack Moorman, page 40
    Additionally:

    Ambrose:

    "... And since they say that we ought not to fast, let them prove for what cause Christ fasted, unless it were that His fast might be an example to us. Lastly, in His later words He taught us that evil cannot be easily overcome except by our fasting, saying: "This kind of devils is not cast out but by prayer and fasting." Matthew 17:21 ..." - Ambrose, Letter 63; point 15. - CHURCH FATHERS: Letter 63 (Ambrose)

    Augustine:

    "... 116. Matthew goes on in the following terms: And when He had come to the multitude, there came to Him a certain man, kneeling down before Him, and saying, Lord, have mercy on my son; for he is lunatic, and sore vexed; and so on, down to the words, Howbeit this kind is not cast out but by prayer and fasting. Both Mark and Luke record this incident, and that, too, in the same order, without any suspicion of a want of harmony. ..." - Augustine, Harmony of the Gospels, Book II; Chapter 58, point 116. - CHURCH FATHERS: Harmony of the Gospels, Book II, Chapter 58 (Augustine)
    Thomas Aquinas in Summa Theologica, citing Jerome:

    "... Objection 2. Further, every sin is either carnal or spiritual. Now, as Jerome says on Mark 9:28, "This kind" of demons "can go out by nothing, but by prayer and fasting: Diseases of the body are healed by fasting, diseases of the mind, by prayer." Therefore no other work of satisfaction is necessary. ..." - Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theolgica; Question 15, Article III; Objection 2. - SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: The means of making satisfaction (Supplementum, Q. 15)
    It is also in the Jerome's Latin Vulgate, which he got from the original Vetus Latina, the real Vulgate in Latin, except Jerome places it at Matthew 17:20:

    "... hoc autem genus non eicitur nisi per orationem et ieiunium ..." - ESword, Latin Vulgate (Jerome).
    Finally -

    "... It is quoted by such early church writers as Origen, Asterius, Hilary, Basil, Ambrose, Chrysostom, Jerome and Augustine. ..." - https://brandplucked.webs.com/matthew1721.htm

    "... Among those critical text versions that contain the verse are Weymouth New Testament 1912, J.B. Phillips N.T. 1962, The New Berkeley Version in Modern English 1969, the Living Bible 1971, the Amplified Bible 1987, the [NASB 1995], The Last Days Bible 1999, The New Century Version 2005, the Holman Standard 2009 [in brackets], the New European Version 2010, The Voice 2012, the International Children’s Bible 2015 and the International Standard Version 2014 with NO brackets.

    The entire verse of Matthew 17:21 is found in the Anglo-Saxon Gospels 1000 A.D., Wycliffe 1395, Tyndale 1534, Coverdale 1535, the Great Bible 1540, Matthew’s Bible 1549, the Bishops’ Bible 1568, the Douay-Rheims 1582, the Geneva Bible 1587, the Beza N.T. 1599, Mace N.T. 1729, Whiston’s N.T. 1745, John Wesley’s N.T. 1755, Worsley Version 1770, Haweis N.T. 1795, Living Oracles 1835, Sawyer N.T. 1858, The Emphatic Diaglott 1865, Darby 1890, Young’s 1898, the New Lamsa's translation of the Syriac Peshitta 1933, New Life Version 1969, the NKJV 1982 and the Lawrie Translation 1998.

    Other English Bibles that contain Matthew 17:21 are The Word of Yah 1993, The Interlinear Greek N.T. 1997 (Larry Pierce), the Worldwide English N.T. 1998, Third Millennium bible 1998, God’s First Truth 1999, Sacred Scriptures Family of Yah 2001, The Tomson N.T. 2002, The Resurrection Life N.T. 2005, English Majority Text Version 2009, Bond Slave Version 2009, Faithful N.T. 2009, The Hebraic Transliteration Scripture 2010 - “Howbeit this kind goes not out but by tefillah (prayer) and tzom (fasting).”, the Holy Scriptures VW Edition 2010, The Work of God’s Children Illustrated Bible 2011, the Online Interlinear 2010 (André de Mol), the Expanded Bible 2011, The Orthodox Jewish Bible 2011, the Conservative Bible 2011, The Far Above All Translation 2011, The Biblos Interlinear Bible 2011, the Interlinear Hebrew-Greek Scriptures 2012 (Mebust), The Word of God Bible 2012 and the Modern English Version 2014.

    Foreign Language Bibles that Contain Matthew 17:21

    Among the foreign language Bibles that contain Matthew 17:21 are the Spanish Sagradas Escrituras 1569, Cipriano de Valera 1602, the Reina Valera 1960-1995, the French Martin 1744, the French Ostervald 1996 and the French Louis Segond 2007, Luther’s German Bible 1545 and the German Schlachter Bible 2000 - “ Aber diese Art fährt nicht aus außer durch Gebet und Fasten.”, the Italian Diodati 1649, La Nuova Diodati 1991 and the Nuova Riveduta 2006, the Dutch Staten Vertaling, the Portuguese Almeida Atualizada 2009, the Hungarian Karoli Bible, the Russian Synodal Bible, the Romanian Cornilescu Bible and the Romanian Fidela 2014, the Czeck BKR, the Tagalog Ang Salita ng Diyos 1998, and the Polish Updated Gdansk Bible 2013. ..." - https://brandplucked.webs.com/matthew1721.htm
     
  20. DNB

    DNB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,336
    Likes Received:
    830
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Yo
    You said it yourself DS5, do not add to scripture. That is, why did the KJV authors add to the Bible, do they not know that a curse follows such an infraction (Deuteronomy 4:2)?

    That is, why did they add the extra verses in Romans 8:1? Everyone knows that the Gospel of faith in Christ's atonement, saves, and not works, for otherwise, grace is not grace. Why did the KJV writers add works to salvation?

    Were you also unaware that, it is not what goes into a man that makes him unclean? That is, what does fasting have to do with faith, and spiritual discernment and power? In other words, what fasting took place in the Bible before an exorcism, not one.
    The KJV authors added this, and are under a curse for doing so. ...man, I wouldn't want to be one of them right now!

    Actually, speaking of the NIV, I recently just got a new one that has the books (and chapters, where applicable) in chronological order, and not by the lack of rhyme & reason that the conventional Bibles have their Book order.
    It's fantastic as an alternate version to read periodically. It has a lot of explanatory notes mid paragraph, that help explain the context and subject at hand, and why a new book is introduced in the middle of another book.
    I highly recommend it!
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
Loading...