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Featured Ezekiel 21 Destroy the Righteous Along With the Wicked

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by stunnedbygrace, Oct 9, 2018.

  1. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    Epi, I didn't find where you started a thread, so I thought you were either busy yesterday evening or you wanted me to begin and choose the "line." ☺

    So we have Ezek 21, I am about to unsheath my sword to destroy your people - the Righteous and the wicked alike. Yes I will cut off both the Righteous and the wicked. I will draw my sword against everyone in the land from South to north. Everyone in the world will know that I am the Lord. My sword is in my hand and it will not return to its sheath until it's work is finished.

    And just as reading it fills you with awful and confused dread, this follows: Son of man, groan before the people. Groan before them with bitter anguish and a broken heart. When they ask you why you are groaning, tell them, I groan because of the terrifying news i have heard. When it comes true the boldest heart will melt with fearfear; all strength will disappear. Every spirit will faint; strong knees will become as weak as water.

    And it IS terrifying. When I first read it, it DID fill me with terror. And with...awful dread. It didn't seem to fit with the rest of the OT i had read, where God removes the righteous ( Noah, Lot).

    Then we have Revelation 22, Let the one who is doing harm continue to do harm; let the one who is vile continue to be vile; let the one who is righteous continue to live righteously; let the one who is holy continue to be holy.

    These men are: evil, filthy, righteous, holy. ( my paraphrase).

    So...we spoke briefly about this a few years ago. I won't listen to anyone who insists that cut off does not mean killed in the verses, because God calls it a massacre further down the page.

    so I want to start along this line epi: how does God destroy the Righteous Along with the wicked? It doesn't fit with any part of the OT previous to it, where He removes and where He says the Righteous will live.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
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  2. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    Oh and we have the the 4 rivers flowing out from the garden. 4 paths, 4 ways to go, 4 destinies.
     
  3. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Jesus said to the Pharisees...if you didn't say "we see" ....you would have no sin. IOW their sin was presumption and pride. Many Christians do this too. So then everything looks fine until...

    So the filthy are just the righteous who soil their garments with lies and iniquities.

    As for Jerusalem...it is only for the holy. A righteous person cannot go there on an equal footing. So then a person loses his righteousness in the face of a greater righteousness. This is where the verse...No not one...comes into play.

    It is like the speechless one who sat in a high place...but without a wedding garment (saint). How could he do that? Well, he was invited to the wedding feast. As such he was among the righteous. But he was not among the holy. So he didn't take a humble place when he entered the room....as Jesus taught. He presumed to take a higher place...and in so doing was rejected altogether.

    It seems inevitable that otherwise righteous people, who lack instruction IN righteousness, are so vulnerable to presumptions ....that leave holiness out of the equation.

    So I teach the 2 levels of righteousness..the 2 crosses....the distinction between the righteous and the holy. And this in an effort to inform the righteous of the boundaries that God permits for those who are not fully crucified in their thoughts and deeds.

    God is merciful....but we must remain humble if we are not to be transgressors before a holy God. That is why the fear of the Lord is needed. We need to respect what God respects....to love what He loves...and to hate what He hates. If we don't do that we could come under judgment.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
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  4. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    A verse says...you will once again distinguish between what is holy and what is not...I'll go find it.

    You've spoken well here epi. I understand it.
     
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  5. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Yes...

    The whole counsel of God...from Genesis to Revelation speaks of the 4 destinies. It is hidden in plain sight.

    There are 4 courses or paths that are defined for men to walk in.

    There is the path the wicked take...to destruction.
    There is the path of the righteous that leads to mercy and life...at the end according to a faithful life.
    There is the path of the holy...which few find. This path leads to glory and honour and a place with Christ to rule over all things.
    Then there is the filthy who mix the flesh in with what is holy. These have no fear of God and are boisterous...soiling their garments with iniquity.

    The 3 sons of Noah represent the 3 kinds of people that will populate the future earth.

    Shem: These are the saints (shem means "name"). These have the name of God on their foreheads.
    Yaphet: These are the saved righteous of the nations. (Yaphet means "spread out") These will dwell in the house of Shem...IOW Shem will rule over them.
    Ham: These are the vessels of dishonour. Canaan is his offspring....meant to be conquered. (Ham means "hot or warm") These are the eternal wanderers in outer darkness who suffer in the heat of the wilderness.

    The other destiny....which are the wicked...are not present in the next age as these have been slain in the second death.
     
  6. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    Leviticus 10:10 you must distinguish between what is sacred and what is common, between what is unclean and what is clean...
     
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  7. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    The mixture is iniquity. Mixing spiritual things with carnal things. Mixing the law and grace. Destroying righteousness in others to be seen as righteous yourself....Saying you see when you don't...etc.
     
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  8. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    And the Righteous are/ should, be in the state of becoming holy. But...They are told they are already holy, as if there is no race of faith for them. They have placed themselves in a position of honor instead of a posture of fear, humility, meekness. What they do has no effect on their future. This is what they believe. It's a deal to cheat death that will not stand. They have placed themselves high instead of putting themselves low.
     
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  9. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Yes....especially among Christians....because that is what is taught. People mix things up without realizing it. That's why few should teach.
     
  10. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    And they give themselves away. They have no fear of God because they have been taught not to. They think faith is believing Jesus died for them but to worry about money is acceptable or is not a lack of the faith they say they have. But when He comes, WILL He find faith, or will He find a deal to cheat death that will not stand? Will He find the fruit of humility or will He find men who have crowed over where their position is?
     
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  11. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    It does fit. Man’s righteousness is(was)cut-off, cast down...there is only one that endures: His seed. The seed of God that remains joined to man.

    Job 31:23
    [23] For destruction from God was a terror to me, and by reason of his highness I could not endure.

    Psalm 55:4 “My heart is sore pained within me: and the terrors of death are fallen upon me.” We are freed from the bondage of death. Hebrews 2:15 “And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.”

    We read the verses: perfect love cast out fear. Fear is torment. He that fears has not been made perfect in love. —there is no more torment...IF we are His then the terror is no more, overcome and swallowed up in victory by Christ.
    John 18:10-11 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. [11] Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

    Jeremiah 15:3
    [3] And I will appoint over them four kinds, saith the Lord : the sword to slay, and the dogs to tear, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the earth, to devour and destroy.

    But there is NO fear of torment in love: Psalm 91:5-7 “Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; [6] Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. [7] A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.”

    Leviticus 26:25-26
    [25] And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy. [26] And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied.—Our bread, bread of His body, does satisfy.
     
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  12. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    I think it is important to play by God's rules. That's the purpose of fearing God. So if you can't walk without sin by grace....then be humble. If you can't overcome all things by faith...then be humble. If you can't love God and seek His kingdom to the right degree (all)...then be humble.

    It is better to live among the righteous in the saved nations than to be rejected into the wilderness.

    Very few will rule and reign with Christ. Nobody knows who is written in the lamb's book of life. many say they know they are....but that isn't true.

    We can know we are not to be condemned with the world...so we are written in the book of life.

    But there are 3 books that have names in them. (also the book of remembrance)
     
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  13. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    It's very frightening. But you have helped me this morning epi. I know how that my brutal honesty about all that I lack and all that I fail in is a good position for me to remain in. There is nothing better than to admit the truth.
     
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  14. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    If we would rejoice in humility...without claiming great things for ourselves or judging others...then we could be full of joy and confident in the mercy of God. (Always maintaining the fear that keeps us in our place)

    From THERE we can seek the Lord if perhaps He would take us higher....WHEN we are ready to do so. (I'm playing it safe here).

    So then we go from righteousness unto holiness...but without also growing in pride. We need to grow in humility too.

    So then we glory in the cross of Christ...that we need to pass through to get to holiness. The cross of Christ destroys anything that gets in the way of an intimate walk with the Lord.

    But there is a cost....everything else. :)

    Until we are ready to forsake all things we cannot move forward into holiness. Unless we are ready to die (not physical)....we cannot go to the cross of Christ. God already knows if we will say "enough. this is too much!" But such a person cannot move forward with God.
     
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  15. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    There really is only one virtue...humility. You cannot even hope to attain any virtue except by humility. There is no way to any of the other things men call virtue except through a growth in humility. Seeing correctly is the only way to an increase in humillity. It is just natural that if you truly see yourself, it leads to humility. But then it leads to the strangest joy...
     
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  16. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    Because...There is just nothing better than walking in the truth. It's a relief, because that useless manner we were taught is a great burden. Always striving to make yourself look good, padding your resume...not walking in truth. It's a despicable imprisonment.
     
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  17. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    I think Ezekiel uses "righteous" pertaining to those wicked who impeccably keep the law. They do not have faith but pride themselves in being good when they don't steal or murder. In the siege of Jerusalem in AD 70, all of the believers got out of town as Jesus warned them to do.
     
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  18. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Humility is way up there...and courage. These are aspects of faith. Peter puts a manly courage (a warrior's courage) right after faith...which is virtue.

    And of course learning to love others. if you love....humility comes easier. You don't mind if others are getting more attention than you...for example. Why? Because you love the person. :)
     
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  19. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Psalm 104:16
    [16] The trees of the Lord are full of sap ; the cedars of Lebanon, which he hath planted; — is this not the righteous to be be cut off(remembered no more). Sap, fuel for burning. Ezekiel 15:3-6 Shall wood be taken thereof to do any work? or will men take a pin of it to hang any vessel thereon? [4] Behold, it is cast into the fire for fuel; the fire devoureth both the ends of it, and the midst of it is burned. Is it meet for any work? [5] Behold, when it was whole, it was meet for no work: how much less shall it be meet yet for any work, when the fire hath devoured it, and it is burned? [6] Therefore thus saith the Lord God ; As the vine tree among the trees of the forest, which I have given to the fire for fuel, so will I give the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

    Psalm 29:5
    [5] The voice of the Lord breaketh the cedars; yea, the Lord breaketh the cedars of Lebanon.

    Isaiah 10:33-34
    [33] Behold, the Lord, the Lord of hosts, shall lop the bough with terror: and the high ones of stature shall be hewn down, and the haughty shall be humbled. [34] And he shall cut down the thickets of the forest with iron, and Lebanon shall fall by a mighty one.

    Zechariah 11:1-4 KJV
    [1] Open thy doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour thy cedars. [2] Howl, fir tree; for the cedar is fallen; because the mighty are spoiled: howl, O ye oaks of Bashan; for the forest of the vintage is come down. [3] There is a voice of the howling of the shepherds; for their glory is spoiled: a voice of the roaring of young lions; for the pride of Jordan is spoiled. [4] Thus saith the Lord my God; Feed the flock of the slaughter;

    Luke 2:34-35
    [34] And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; [35] (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

    Isaiah 10:17-20
    [17] And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day; [18] And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standardbearer fainteth. [19] And the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child may write them. [20] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the Lord , the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
     
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  20. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    if you see yourself truly, you have to love them rather than get angry with them, because you see you are the same as them. You can't get mad at their selfishness if you see you have selfishness too. To condemn them and not forgive would be to condemn yourself.
     
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