Ezekiel 40- is prophecy, and is of God's 3rd temple only

[robert derrick]

I find more and more, that the obvious must be explained and actually taught, in order to counter false teaching. It's strange to need to do so, but it is also a good exercise in proving the basics by Scripture:

1. What does God define as prophecy:

When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

First, a prophet is someone speaking in the name of the Lord.

Second, he is speaking of something, that shall come to pass.

2. Who brings to pass God's prophecies?

I the LORD have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord GOD.

This is God declaring that He Himself brings all His prophecies to pass, and the will of man has nothing to do with it: All prophecy of God is the oath of God, that He will do it.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

3. Is there prophecy of God, that shall come to pass, in Ezekiel 40:1-?

And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.

Yes, pertaining to Gog, and what the Lord will do with God at that time.

4. Is there prophecy of God, that shall come to pass, in Ezekiel 40-?

And it shall come to pass, that when they enter in at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments; and no wool shall come upon them, whiles they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within.

Yes, and what God will do with them in His priesthood.

God speaks sure prophecy of what shall come to pass, 5 times from Ezek 12-39, and again 5 times in Ezek 44-47.

Either they are all prophecies of God, or they are not. To say any of the prophecies won't come to pass, is calling it false prophecy, and so all the prophecies can be said to be false.

 

[robert derrick]

There are three temples of God in Scripture: Solomon's, the 2nd of Zerubbabel, and a 3rd one coming to pass by several prophets, that is given most detail by Ezekiel.

The 2rd temple cannot possibly have fulfilled Ezekiel's prophecy, nor that of the other prophets, otherwise their prophecies are false:

1. The measurements of the 2nd temple are not according to prophecy.
2. The Lord did not enter into the 2nd temple with His glory, and sanctify His throne therein.
3. The priests were not both outwardly and inwardly circumcised: they did not have the circumcision of Christ, which only comes to pass after His resurrection.
4. No river of waters went out from the 2nd temple, and the Dead Sea is not yet healed.

These are not things that men must bring to pass, as with construction of the temple, but are things which only God can bring to pass, and He will do it according to His prophetic oath.

Also, Zechariah prophesies that the Lord Himself on earth, will be building His house and temple, after clearing out Jerusalem and standing on Olivet. And so, men are not even necessary for that, though He will allow some to come from afar and build with Him.

Only if prophecy of the Lord's temple to come to pass, is false, can it be the 2nd temple:

Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, are these.

 

[covenantee]

There are three temples of God in Scripture: Solomon's, the 2nd of Zerubbabel, and a 3rd one coming to pass by several prophets, that is given most detail by Ezekiel.

The 2rd temple cannot possibly have fulfilled Ezekiel's prophecy, nor that of the other prophets, otherwise their prophecies are false:

1. The measurements of the 2nd temple are not according to prophecy.
2. The Lord did not enter into the 2nd temple with His glory, and sanctify His throne therein.
3. The priests were not both outwardly and inwardly circumcised: they did not have the circumcision of Christ, which only comes to pass after His resurrection.
4. No river of waters went out from the 2nd temple, and the Dead Sea is not yet healed.

These are not things that men must bring to pass, as with construction of the temple, but are things which only God can bring to pass, and He will do it according to His prophetic oath.

Also, Zechariah prophesies that the Lord Himself on earth, will be building His house and temple, after clearing out Jerusalem and standing on Olivet. And so, men are not even necessary for that, though He will allow some to come from afar and build with Him.

Only if prophecy of the Lord's temple to come to pass, is false, can it be the 2nd temple:

Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, are these.

Hebrews 10:9

 

[robert derrick]

Hebrews 10:9

True. At this time, any temple made with hands, as by law of Moses, is done away with, that the new temple of the Lord on earth, is only His body of believers.

And if there is another temple made with hands of men, where built by Christians and/or Jews, then the Lord will destroy it and build His own prophesied house and temple, for His Millennium on earth.

That will be the prophecy of Ezekiel coming to pass, as well as that of Zechariah, which includes those from afar coming to help the Lord.

That could have a double meaning of the newborn Christians on earth, as well as the resurrected saints.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

To say any of the prophecies won't come to pass, is calling it false prophecy of a false prophet.

“The law and the prophets were until John...” (Luke 16:16)

Move on…

 

[Randy Kluth]

I find more and more, that the obvious must be explained and actually taught, in order to counter false teaching. It's strange to need to do so, but it is also a good exercise in proving the basics by Scripture:

1. What does God define as prophecy:

When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

First, a prophet is someone speaking in the name of the Lord.

Second, he is speaking of something, that shall come to pass.

2. Who brings to pass God's prophecies?

I the LORD have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord GOD.

This is God declaring that He Himself brings all His prophecies to pass, and the will of man has nothing to do with it: All prophecy of God is the oath of God, that He will do it.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

3. Is there prophecy that shall come to pass, in Ezekiel 40-?

And it shall come to pass, that when they enter in at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments; and no wool shall come upon them, whiles they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within.

This is prophecy of God in Ezek 44, that is of His temple, and of what will come to pass when the Levite priests of Zadok enter in, and what God will do with them in His priesthood.

And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.

Once again, Ezek 47 has prophecy of God that shall come to pass, when dividing the land by lot to the tribes of Israel, and any strangers among them.

God speaks sure prophecy of what is to come to pass, 5 times from Ezek 12-39, and again 5 times in Ezek 44-47.

To say any of the prophecies won't come to pass, is calling it false prophecy of a false prophet.

I wouldn't get too harsh over prophecies that are historically difficult and controversial. I've been around the block many times on Eze 40-48, and I can tell you, it's not for children! ;)

Ezekiel was, I think, a priest and had quite a lot of insight due to his association with the Law and its rituals. So to understand much of what he says we would be helped by understanding his unique pov as a priest.

This final vision in Eze 40-48 is clearly a vision! That is, it is highly symbolic, though indeed it is a prophecy. The literal temple had been destroyed, and this prophecy was the promise of restored temple worship of some kind, even though there was no longer a temple.

In fact, the temple seemed to be located somewhere else, high on a mountain. The original temple in Jerusalem was on Mount Moriah, which was not "very high," as this temple was in Ezekiel's vision.

So the vision was just a vision, and not a prophecy of the literal temple. It was simply reinforcing the belief that temple worship should continue. And it was 70 years later, when Zerubbabel had the temple rebuilt.

But the temple Zerubbabel built was not the one Ezekiel saw. That temple, described by Ezekiel, better relates to the "Jewish Hope," as I call it--the time when Israel is finally saved for all time and permanently delivered from outside oppressors.

So Ezekiel's temple vision takes us into the distant future, from his perspective, and into the NT era where there is no longer any temple except Christ, who fulfilled all of the temple foreshadowings of his work. He is the final temple of God who will fulfill the "Jewish Hope."

Why did God use OT figures to express a future temple worship? It was because Ezekiel was still living in the OT era, and had to reinforce the importance of keeping the Law as a forerunner of Christ. Until Christ actually came and made his sacrifice, preliminary animal sacrifices had to be made in recognition of Israel's need for his sacrifice.

So the lesson of Eze 40-48 is not about a literal temple being rebuilt, but rather, about the need for a final sacrifice to fulfill temple foreshadowings of the need for Christ's sacrifice. But its promise of Israel's national salvation is quite real, and we should, I think, expect the nation of Israel to literally be saved.

Up to now many Gentile nations have become Christian nations. Why can't Israel become a Christian nation? Of course it can, and will. But Israel and all Christian nations fall short in the present age of satanic domination. We should all trust in Ezekiel's vision that if God will save Israel in the end, He will also save many Christian nations by restoring them to true spiritual devotion. That is my hope, anyway!

 

[robert derrick]

“The law and the prophets were until John...” (Luke 16:16)

Move on…

As I said before, you do good at teaching righteousness of God, but you're a non-starter with prophecy.

Neither the law nor the prophecies of Christ are dead, ended, disannulled, or no longer matter.

What God prophecies shall come to pass, shall come to pass exactly as foretold, or has already come to pass.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

you do good at teaching righteousness of God, but you're a non-starter with prophecy.

“And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.” (1 Corinthians 13:2)

“Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.” (1 Corinthians 13:8)

The things concerning charity/love are without question or debate in scripture.

I rather be sure about righteousness and charity than to debate the deep things of prophecy that no man can be 100% sure about.

All the scribes and Pharisees totally missed all the prophecies regarding Christ.

I wouldn’t be so rigid and confident regarding things that can easily be hidden in symbolic language.

 

[robert derrick]

I wouldn't get too harsh over prophecies that are historically difficult and controversial. I've been around the block many times on Eze 40-48, and I can tell you, it's not for children! ;)

Ezekiel was, I think, a priest and had quite a lot of insight due to his association with the Law and its rituals. So to understand much of what he says we would be helped by understanding his unique pov as a priest.

This final vision in Eze 40-48 is clearly a vision! That is, it is highly symbolic, though indeed it is a prophecy. The literal temple had been destroyed, and this prophecy was the promise of restored temple worship of some kind, even though there was no longer a temple.

In fact, the temple seemed to be located somewhere else, high on a mountain. The original temple in Jerusalem was on Mount Moriah, which was not "very high," as this temple was in Ezekiel's vision.

So the vision was just a vision, and not a prophecy of the literal temple. It was simply reinforcing the belief that temple worship should continue. And it was 70 years later, when Zerubbabel had the temple rebuilt.

But the temple Zerubbabel built was not the one Ezekiel saw. That temple, described by Ezekiel, better relates to the "Jewish Hope," as I call it--the time when Israel is finally saved for all time and permanently delivered from outside oppressors.

So Ezekiel's temple vision takes us into the distant future, from his perspective, and into the NT era where there is no longer any temple except Christ, who fulfilled all of the temple foreshadowings of his work. He is the final temple of God who will fulfill the "Jewish Hope."

Why did God use OT figures to express a future temple worship? It was because Ezekiel was still living in the OT era, and had to reinforce the importance of keeping the Law as a forerunner of Christ. Until Christ actually came and made his sacrifice, preliminary animal sacrifices had to be made in recognition of Israel's need for his sacrifice.

So the lesson of Eze 40-48 is not about a literal temple being rebuilt, but rather, about the need for a final sacrifice to fulfill temple foreshadowings of the need for Christ's sacrifice. But its promise of Israel's national salvation is quite real, and we should, I think, expect the nation of Israel to literally be saved.

Up to now many Gentile nations have become Christian nations. Why can't Israel become a Christian nation? Of course it can, and will. But Israel and all Christian nations fall short in the present age of satanic domination. We should all trust in Ezekiel's vision that if God will save Israel in the end, He will also save many Christian nations by restoring them to true spiritual devotion. That is my hope, anyway!

I.e. 5 things of what God prophecies shall come to pass in Ezekiel, shall not come to pass, if it's not man's will.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The actual prophecy of Ezekiel is really secondary on this thread, which begins with: Ezekiel 40- is prophecy.

And the whole first posting, is simple proof by definition of Scripture, what God says is prophecy.

It must be completely overlooked, to then just go on and declare what God says to Ezekiel shall come to pass, is not prophecy of Scripture at all.

 

[robert derrick]

Ezekiel was, I think, a priest and had quite a lot of insight due to his association with the Law and its rituals. So to understand much of what he says we would be helped by understanding his unique pov as a priest.

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

This shows no prophecy of Scripture is written by any man, based upon his own 'insight'.

And it either comes to pass as written, or it's not God's prophecy, but just a man's 'insight'.

None of the prophets spoke based upon their own bright ideas, but spoke specifically what God told them to say, at the very time His Spirit moved them to do so.

All Scripture is written by God, and His prophets and apostles are simply the ready pens in His hands:

My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.

Pens don't write with their own insight, especially not to offer alternatives to the Writer.

So Ezekiel's temple vision takes us into the distant future, from his perspective,

And so we see how some people can argue against believing God's prophecy will come to pass, as written, when they don't believe it's God's words being written, but only the perspective of some insightful man.

 

[robert derrick]

In fact, the temple seemed to be located somewhere else, high on a mountain. The original temple in Jerusalem was on Mount Moriah, which was not "very high," as this temple was in Ezekiel's vision.

So the vision was just a vision, and not a prophecy of the literal temple. It was simply reinforcing the belief that temple worship should continue. And it was 70 years later, when Zerubbabel had the temple rebuilt.

But the temple Zerubbabel built was not the one Ezekiel saw. That temple, described by Ezekiel, better relates to the "Jewish Hope," as I call it--the time when Israel is finally saved for all time and permanently delivered from outside oppressors.

and into the NT era where there is no longer any temple except Christ, who fulfilled all of the temple foreshadowings of his work. He is the final temple of God who will fulfill the "Jewish Hope."

Why did God use OT figures to express a future temple worship? It was because Ezekiel was still living in the OT era, and had to reinforce the importance of keeping the Law as a forerunner of Christ. Until Christ actually came and made his sacrifice, preliminary animal sacrifices had to be made in recognition of Israel's need for his sacrifice.

So the lesson of Eze 40-48 is not about a literal temple being rebuilt, but rather, about the need for a final sacrifice to fulfill temple foreshadowings of the need for Christ's sacrifice. But its promise of Israel's national salvation is quite real, and we should, I think, expect the nation of Israel to literally be saved.

Up to now many Gentile nations have become Christian nations. Why can't Israel become a Christian nation? Of course it can, and will. But Israel and all Christian nations fall short in the present age of satanic domination. We should all trust in Ezekiel's vision that if God will save Israel in the end, He will also save many Christian nations by restoring them to true spiritual devotion. That is my hope, anyway!

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

This also says, that no prophecy of Scripture can be altered and/or entirely replaced, by a man's own 'insight' about it.

All you've done here is give some insightful ideas of you own, about why you willfully say the prophecy shall not come to pass as written, without having to say you just don't believe it.

This is not being harsh, but being honest, without all the rationalizations of why God's word doesn't mean exactly what He says, if it's the will of men to object to it.

Do not err, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

God's gift of prophecy does not include insightful shadows of our own, because we either do not care to understand why God shall bring certain things pass, or we do not like them as written.

I've been around the block many times on Eze 40-48, and I can tell you, it's not for children! ;)

It certainly is for children, as all Scripture is written for children in plain speech. And Jesus tells us we must always come to Him and His word as little children.

The problem is when we grow up so much with our own insights of His word, that we think we have the right to change it at our own will.

One thing is for sure, I would never tell a child seeking to learn God's word with faith, believing all things He says is true, that some things He plainly says shall come to pass, shall not come to pass, and then try to enlighten that child with some greater insight of my own.

Neither would I allow anyone to do so with any child I have responsibility for.

 

[robert derrick]

“And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.” (1 Corinthians 13:2)

“Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.” (1 Corinthians 13:8)

The things concerning charity/love are without question or debate in scripture.

And so, you tried offering a Scripture as to how some prophesies of old, would not come to pass as written.

And now you revert to questioning someone's charity, when they show there is no such thing as God declaring some of His prophecies shall not come to pass, as He said they would.

I rather be sure about righteousness and charity than to debate the deep things of prophecy that no man can be 100% sure about.

You're not debating any prophecy or deep things of God Here. You're just rejecting some of them as not coming to pass, with your own insightful reasoning as to why.

All the scribes and Pharisees totally missed all the prophecies regarding Christ.

That's because, like some today, they didn't believe them as written.

Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

And so we see here, that the prophets themselves did not understand all they wrote. But they certainly believed everything God told them would come to pass, would come to pass.

Including His own temple and house on earth, and cleansing the Dead Sea with waters from the south side of His altar.

Just saying it will not be from the south side, is enough to declare His prophecy false.

Where's the charity and love of Scripture, to say all such details of prophecy are for nought? Where's the respect for the words written?

I wouldn’t be so rigid and confident regarding things that can easily be hidden in symbolic language.

It's called faith in the Scriptures, that God means exactly what He says.

Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.

And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.

These things shall come to pass. They are not false prophecy. You say they shall not come to pass. You make them false by symbolizing them into nothing.

I conform my mind to God's word in all things by faith first, whether I like it or not, and then His Spirit helps me to freely teach and do it from the heart.

 

[robert derrick]

Hebrews 10:9

Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.

And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@robert derrick

Do you plan on being in this new temporal temple offering livestock for sacrifices?

 

[robert derrick]

@robert derrick

Do you plan on being in this new temporal temple offering livestock for sacrifices?

No, that's only done by the Lord's natural priesthood of Hebrews and Jews, who have His circumcision of the Spirit, as well as the flesh.

However, If I am in the first resurrection, then I certainly do believe we resurrected saints will be some of them coming from afar, to help Him build His temple on earth.

And yes, to exact specifications, as well as bringing certain prophecies to pass, such as water coming from the southside of the altar.

I'm also thinking I'd love to swim in it, when it becomes a river to swim in.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

we resurrected saints will be some of them coming from afar, to help Him build His temple on earth.

There’s no scripture that even eludes to this. Your imagination is running wild bro.

This is the place you should be looking for, a place with no temple:

“And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.” (Revelation 21:22)

I rather walk the streets of gold!

 

[robert derrick]

There’s no scripture that even eludes to this. Your imagination is running wild bro.

This is the place you should be looking for, a place with no temple:

“And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.” (Revelation 21:22)

I rather walk the streets of gold!

You can skip the Millennium if you like.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You can skip the Millennium if you like.

Where in the New Testament is this new temple spoken of in the millennium?

Please quote it.

 

[robert derrick]

There is a reason why the Jews did not build the temple measured in Ezekiel. Because they didn't even try to.

They knew that it would be the Lord's temple, that He would build Himself, and enter into with His glory.

They knew there was no way, that the Lord was looking for them to do so. They knew with the prophet, that it was to be His own temple on earth, to rule from when He came to earth.

Afterall, how were they then going to have waters run from the southside of the altar to heal the sea?

This is exactly what the Jews of Jesus' day were looking for Him to do, including His apostles and disciples:

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

 

[robert derrick]

Where in the New Testament is this new temple spoken of in the millennium?

Please quote it.

And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

This is the 3rd temple building of God in Scripture, and it is opened in heaven, at the time of His coming again to earth.

Many think it is the temple of God in Rev 11:2, that He will reign from, but I don't believe that. I believe that is His church on earth now.