False religion has exchanged the truth of God for the lie.

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Robert Gwin

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The Webster Bible states at Romans 1:25: For they had bartered the reality of God for what is unreal, and had offered divine honours and religious service to created things, rather than to the Creator--He who is for ever blessed. Amen.

This is actually one of the ways to identify the true faith. Many faiths today worship a created being over the Creator. Does yours? What should you do if you find out that your faith is not serving God in the way He desires?
 

ChristisGod

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False religions deny the Son is Eternal and existed together with the Father before creation sharing the same Glory with Him. John 17:5, John 1:1-3, Hebrews 1:8-10, Colossians 1:16.

hope this helps !!!
 
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GEN2REV

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The Webster Bible states at Romans 1:25: For they had bartered the reality of God for what is unreal, and had offered divine honours and religious service to created things, rather than to the Creator--He who is for ever blessed. Amen.

This is actually one of the ways to identify the true faith. Many faiths today worship a created being over the Creator. Does yours? What should you do if you find out that your faith is not serving God in the way He desires?
What is the Webster Bible?
 

Robert Gwin

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False religions deny the Son is Eternal and existed together with the Father before creation sharing the same Glory with Him. John 17:5, John 1:1-3, Hebrews 1:8-10, Colossians 1:16.

hope this helps !!!


You mentioned John 1:1 Chris, may I ask you to break it down sir, what does beginning mean?
 

Robert Gwin

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What is the Webster Bible?

According to Wikipedia:
Noah Webster's 1833 limited revision of the King James Version focused mainly on replacing archaic words and making simple grammatical changes. For example: "why" instead of "wherefore", "its" instead of "his" when referring to nonliving things, "male child" instead of "manchild", etc. He also introduced euphemisms to remove words which he found to be offensive: "whore" becomes "lewd woman". He changed some of the spelling of the 1611 version, some of which had been changed by British usage since 1611 and others that he himself had deliberately changed in his dictionary to reflect an American identity over a British one. Overall, very few changes were made, and the result is a book which is almost indistinguishable from the King James Version. It has sometimes been called the Common Version (which is not to be confused with the Common Bible of 1973, an ecumenical edition of the Revised Standard Version).

Modern critics are surprised by just how little Webster changed the King James Version. His revision was very light, as he did not want to make the language wholly contemporary, but rather wanted to correct flaws he disagreed with as an educator. Other, less orthodox Americans were bringing out their own versions of the New Testament, but he had no interest in theologically motivated changes. One notable change that was beyond just revising language flaws was a correction changing the word "Easter" in Acts 12:4 to the word "Passover".

Throughout Webster's Revision of the King James Bible, the lexicographer replaced "Holy Ghost" with "Holy Spirit". Webster did so because he knew that in the Christians' Scriptures this expression did not mean "an apparition". In the preface of his Bible, Webster wrote: "Some words have fallen into disuse; and the signification of others, in current popular use, is not the same now as it was when they were introduced into the version. The effect of these changes is, that some words are not understood by common readers, who have no access to commentaries, and who will always compose a great proportion of readers; while other words, being now used in a sense different from that which they had when the translation was made, present a wrong signification or false ideas. Whenever words are understood in a sense different from that which they had been introduced, and different from that of the original languages, they do not present to the reader the Word of God."

The problem with the older books was confusion on the part of readers as the language styles had been evolving over the years and a lot of meaning of the text in this Bible was being lost on the average reader. Some passages were misunderstood. Grammar had evolved as well and the above changes made an easier read while purifying the language and making it more delicate.
 

ChristisGod

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You mentioned John 1:1 Chris, may I ask you to break it down sir, what does beginning mean?
Lets begin at the very first part of verse in John 1:1a

In the beginning was the Word.
en arche en ho logos
εν αρχη ην ο λογος

the phrase "in the beginning" is "en arche". Now if you look in the Septuagint at Genesis 1:1 we find this:

εν αρχη εποιησεν ο θεος

Now the question we need to ask ourselves is what does in the beginning mean ? One must always remember that context always determines the meaning of words and phrases. If we compare Genesis with John which is exactly what John is doing in his opening to his gospel we can clearly see his point. Moses and John both are discussing the creation of "all things". That makes the passages parallel. Here a some parallels to consider:

1- in the beginning
2- Theos( God) appears in both opening verses
3- Both talk about the creation of all things
4- both use egeneto εγενετο, came into being or existence
5- both use and contrast light and darkness

εν αρχη refers to the beginning of time. Now if John didn't mean the beginning of time he could of easily used another word that he often used which would be the word from"apo" instead of en. He could of also used the phrase came into being(egeneto) to refer to the Word in 1a but he did not. John made it very clear that the Word in his gospel is equal to the God in Genesis.

Now lets look at the verb was"en". This is in the imperfect tense of eimi meaning continuous existence. By its very definition it has the meaning of eternal, without beginning. Therefor the Words existence transcends time and is eternal. From Robertsons Words from the GNT:

In the beginning (en arch). Arch is definite, though anarthrous like our at home, in town, and the similar Hebrew be reshith in Genesis 1:1 . But Westcott notes that here John carries our thoughts beyond the beginning of creation in time to eternity. There is no argument here to prove the existence of God any more than in Genesis. It is simply assumed.

From here we can now look to see who the Word is in John 1:1.

Now that we have established the meaning of the beginning in John 1:1a we can move on to the identity of the Word.

Whoever the Word is , He was alongside God (with Him) and was God. But how can the Word be with God and also be God? Lets examine 1b The Word was with God. John here is making a distinction between the Word and God. Though existing eternally with God the Word (logos)‎was in perfect fellowship with God. Pros ‎with the accusative shows equality and intimacy, face to face with each other. This clearly reveals a relationship between the logos and theon in 1b. In (Moulton and Milligan Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament)"the knowledge of our intimacy with one another" is used to speak of the relationship between the logos and God.

The Word was God- και θεος ην ο λογος . Theos here is without the article. It is predicative and describes the nature of the Word. The absence of the article indicates that the Word is God. Johns whole gospel comes forth from this verse. The Word is who his gospel is written about and as we will see the words and deeds of Jesus are the words and deeds of God.

John 1:14 and the Word became flesh- και ο λογος σαρξ εγενετο. Second aorist middle indicative of ginomai which means came into existence, He became flesh. The Word in one single event is history became man as opposed to “eimi” being or always existed. So we can clearly see the Word who is eternal came into existence in the flesh at a single point in time .

Now if we read further in John we can see that the Word dwelt among us (tabernacled).The Word entering a new mode of existence, became flesh, and lived in a tent (His physical body-a tabernacle) among us. And we beheld His glory. We must also remember YHWH declared numerous times in the O.T. that He would not share His glory with anyone.

This Word John the Baptist identifies as Jesus.
15 John testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.

John 1:29-31
29The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30"This is He on behalf of whom I said, 'After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.

The revelation of God's glory is an important theme in Johns Gospel. Jesus revealed God's glory in His person, His works, and His words. Jesus works, words and deeds are Gods works, words and deeds. That is why He could say he who has seen me has seen the Father because they are one in essence. Jesus could say as well that before Abraham was “I Am” (the self existing One) and taking upon Himself the divine name that God gave to Moses. This is the same wording in the Septuagint for which the Pharisees tried to stone Him for in John 8:58.

Jesus warns us that unless you believe that “I Am” you will die in your sins. John 8:24. I have many more things to say on this topic but this should be enough to suffice for now. My favorite subject/doctrine in Scripture is the Deity of Christ. I'm most passionate about Jesus being God. YHWH alone is our Savior and there is none besides Him declares the Lord of Hosts. But in the N.T. we see Jesus alone is our Savior. He is our great God and Savior Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1; 2 Peter 1:11. He is the True God and Eternal Life 1 John 5:20 who was with the Father before creation, before the world came into existence when there was only God. John 17:5 sharing the same Glory together with the Father. There is no escaping the Deity of Christ/ Messiah from both testament's and I have many, many more scriptures to share on this topic. Scripture is full of them.

hope this helps !!!
 
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Robert Gwin

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Lets begin at the very first part of verse in John 1:1a

In the beginning was the Word.
en arche en ho logos
εν αρχη ην ο λογος

the phrase "in the beginning" is "en arche". Now if you look in the Septuagint at Genesis 1:1 we find this:

εν αρχη εποιησεν ο θεος

Now the question we need to ask ourselves is what does in the beginning mean ? One must always remember that context always determines the meaning of words and phrases. If we compare Genesis with John which is exactly what John is doing in his opening to his gospel we can clearly see his point. Moses and John both are discussing the creation of "all things". That makes the passages parallel. Here a some parallels to consider:

1- in the beginning
2- Theos( God) appears in both opening verses
3- Both talk about the creation of all things
4- both use egeneto εγενετο, came into being or existence
5- both use and contrast light and darkness

εν αρχη refers to the beginning of time. Now if John didn't mean the beginning of time he could of easily used another word that he often used which would be the word from"apo" instead of en. He could of also used the phrase came into being(egeneto) to refer to the Word in 1a but he did not. John made it very clear that the Word in his gospel is equal to the God in Genesis.

Now lets look at the verb was"en". This is in the imperfect tense of eimi meaning continuous existence. By its very definition it has the meaning of eternal, without beginning. Therefor the Words existence transcends time and is eternal. From Robertsons Words from the GNT:

In the beginning (en arch). Arch is definite, though anarthrous like our at home, in town, and the similar Hebrew be reshith in Genesis 1:1 . But Westcott notes that here John carries our thoughts beyond the beginning of creation in time to eternity. There is no argument here to prove the existence of God any more than in Genesis. It is simply assumed.

From here we can now look to see who the Word is in John 1:1.

Now that we have established the meaning of the beginning in John 1:1a we can move on to the identity of the Word.

Whoever the Word is , He was alongside God (with Him) and was God. But how can the Word be with God and also be God? Lets examine 1b The Word was with God. John here is making a distinction between the Word and God. Though existing eternally with God the Word (logos)‎was in perfect fellowship with God. Pros ‎with the accusative shows equality and intimacy, face to face with each other. This clearly reveals a relationship between the logos and theon in 1b. In (Moulton and Milligan Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament)"the knowledge of our intimacy with one another" is used to speak of the relationship between the logos and God.

The Word was God- και θεος ην ο λογος . Theos here is without the article. It is predicative and describes the nature of the Word. The absence of the article indicates that the Word is God. If “o theos” had been written then it would mean that no divine being existed outside of the Word. Johns whole gospel comes forth from this verse. The Word is who his gospel is written about and as we will see the words and deeds of Jesus are the words and deeds of God.

John 1:14 and the Word became flesh- και ο λογος σαρξ εγενετο. Second aorist middle indicative of ginomai which means came into existence, He became flesh. The Word in one single event is history became man as opposed to “eimi” being or always existed. So we can clearly see the Word who is eternal came into existence in the flesh at a single point in time .

Now if we read further in John we can see that the Word dwelt among us (tabernacled).The Word entering a new mode of existence, became flesh, and lived in a tent (His physical body-a tabernacle) among us. And we beheld His glory. We must also remember YHWH declared numerous times in the O.T. that He would not share His glory with anyone.

This Word John the Baptist identifies as Jesus.
15 John testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.

John 1:29-31
29The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30"This is He on behalf of whom I said, 'After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.

The revelation of God's glory is an important theme in Johns Gospel. Jesus revealed God's glory in His person, His works, and His words. Jesus works, words and deeds are Gods works, words and deeds. That is why He could say he who has seen me has seen the Father because they are one in essence. Jesus could say as well that before Abraham was “I Am” (the self existing One) and taking upon Himself the divine name that God gave to Moses. This is the same wording in the Septuagint for which the Pharisees tried to stone Him for in John 8:58.

Jesus warns us that unless you believe that “I Am” you will die in your sins. John 8:24. I have many more things to say on this topic but this should be enough to suffice for now. My favorite subject/doctrine in Scripture is the Deity of Christ. I'm most passionate about Jesus being God. YHWH alone is our Savior and there is none besides Him declares the Lord of Hosts. But in the N.T. we see Jesus alone is our Savior. He is our great God and Savior Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1; 2 Peter 1:11. He is the True God and Eternal Life 1 John 5:20 who was with the Father before creation, before the world came into existence when there was only God. John 17:5 sharing the same Glory together with the Father. There is no escaping the Deity of Christ/ Messiah from both testament's and I have many, many more scriptures to share on this topic. Scripture is full of them.

hope this helps !!!


Great explanation Chris, but a bit further than I had hoped, but you did a very fine job. I fully agree that the beginning was the beginning of time, or in other words the start of creation, which was the point of time being factored into the equation. You compared Gen 1:1 as well as further evidence, and I fully agree both represent the beginning of recorded time, which is the start of creation.

You went on to state the Word was with God, and and even brought out the definite article ho, but then you contradicted yourself, look at your words here sir you stated: The absence of the article indicates that the Word is God. If “o theos” had been written then it would mean that no divine being existed outside of the Word. Your latter sentence is correct, but since the definite article ho was not present, then there was a Divine being outside the Word, as previously used prior in the verse. So the Word existed separately from the God, and was with the God as stated. Are you making the connection?
 

ChristisGod

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Great explanation Chris, but a bit further than I had hoped, but you did a very fine job. I fully agree that the beginning was the beginning of time, or in other words the start of creation, which was the point of time being factored into the equation. You compared Gen 1:1 as well as further evidence, and I fully agree both represent the beginning of recorded time, which is the start of creation.

You went on to state the Word was with God, and and even brought out the definite article ho, but then you contradicted yourself, look at your words here sir you stated: The absence of the article indicates that the Word is God. If “o theos” had been written then it would mean that no divine being existed outside of the Word. Your latter sentence is correct, but since the definite article ho was not present, then there was a Divine being outside the Word, as previously used prior in the verse. So the Word existed separately from the God, and was with the God as stated. Are you making the connection?
A typo there I will edit it.
 

Fool4Jesus

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That Post really got me to thinking. I will be doing some studying of "In the beginning was the Word" today.

Found this so far:



The Logos

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.


John used an early Aramaic Christian hymn to Christ as God as the introduction to his Gospel. It has three stanzas each having ὁ λόγος “the Word” in focus.
 
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