Follow the Grammar . . .

[marks]

The Sadducees thought they had Jesus in the perfect trap. They, as some do today, framed a ridiculous question thinking they had it all figured out.

Matthew 22:23-30
23) The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,
24) Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
25) Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:
26) Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.
27) And last of all the woman died also.
28) Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
29) Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30) For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Jesus answered their question, but then addressed their underlying issue.

The Sadducees, who said there is no resurrection, asking a question about the resurrection, rather disengenuous, don't you think?

Matthew 22:31-32
31) But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32) I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

I AM the God of Abraham, isaac, and Jacob.

In the syntax of a single verb from a single verse in the Bible, Jesus proved the resurrection, from the Bible.

I hear people say that you can't base doctrine on a single verse. Is that true? What would Jesus say about that?

I see people willing to overlook "small" details in Scripture that don't conform with their interpretations.

But I've learned, Every Single Word, and it's specific syntax, are there to teach us. If we will hear it.

Much love!

 

[Jay Ross]

So true, people pick and chose what they want to believe and what they want to accept.

We all have our achilleas heels which stops us from running God's race in the manner that God intends us to.

Proving that Jesus is God is one thing, believing it is so, is another.

This is borne out in the level of trust and faith that many have with respect to our belief that God will protect us in all things as we live our lives, but so often we are not prepared to believe in Him and that He will keep us spiritually safe in Him.

Do we accept that we will be persecuted because of our belief in Him and that we will be even killed because of our faith in Him. Why is it that so many professing Christians have rejected the idea that God/Jesus can/will keep us safe, spiritually, in Him even if we suffer persecutions and are even killed because of our beliefs in Him.

Satan has sold the lie that for God to keep us safe spiritually, that he has to remove His Saints from the face of the earth before he, Satan, starts his reign of terror and death against those who do not what him to be their king over them. Satan wants the whole harvest, even though he has had no part in the generation of the saints through the planting of the seed, watering the ground or providing the nourishment for it to grow and produce full heads for the harvest.

Our relationship with God/Jesus must include every part of our being in our worship of Him. There should be no part of our being that we should keep for ourselves and separate from God.

Shalom

 

[Hidden In Him]

So true, people pick and chose what they want to believe and what they want to accept.

We all have our achilleas heels which stops us from running God's race in the manner that God intends us to.

Proving that Jesus is God is one thing, believing it is so, is another.

This is borne out in the level of trust and faith that many have with respect to our belief that God will protect us in all things as we live our lives, but so often we are not prepared to believe in Him and that He will keep us spiritually safe in Him.

Do we accept that we will be persecuted because of our belief in Him and that we will be even killed because of our faith in Him. Why is it that so many professing Christians have rejected the idea that God/Jesus can/will keep us safe, spiritually, in Him even if we suffer persecutions and are even killed because of our beliefs in Him.

Satan has sold the lie that for God to keep us safe spiritually, that he has to remove His Saints from the face of the earth before he, Satan, starts his reign of terror and death against those who do not what him to be their king over them. Satan wants the whole harvest, even though he has had no part in the generation of the saints through the planting of the seed, watering the ground or providing the nourishment for it to grow and produce full heads for the harvest.

Our relationship with God/Jesus must include every part of our being in our worship of Him. There should be no part of our being that we should keep for ourselves and separate from God.

Shalom

That was well written.

 

[marks]

We all have our achilleas heels which stops us from running God's race in the manner that God intends us to.

Faith overcomes all. We need not be stopped in our race. Jesus is able to accomplish His will within us, to will and to do what pleases Him.

This is borne out in the level of trust and faith that many have with respect to our belief that God will protect us in all things as we live our lives, but so often we are not prepared to believe in Him and that He will keep us spiritually safe in Him.

If someone is not prepared to trust Him to know what's best , I'm hoping that person can accept that truth from His Word, rather than needing to learn through experience, as that can be more difficult.

Myself, I don't really qualify spiritually safe and physically safe, as His hand is on both spiritual and material life. All of life is one thing to me, essentially if I am responding to God in communion with Him, I have the confidence of being in His love. If I am not in response to Him, then I'll have whatever confidence or lack as happens to be passing through my mind, I hope that makes sense, but I'm thinking you know what I mean.

I think the issue some people have is in knowing what is good for them. Some people seem to have the idea that anything difficult or painful is of itself bad, or wrong, and that's not true.

Again, holding to the exact wording of God's Word, we know that all things work together for good to who who love God, who are the called according to His purpose.

There is another verse there that people often overlook.

. . . whom He called He also justified, and whom He justified, these also He glorified.

How many times have I heard it taught that those He justified, these also He will glorify. But that's not what it says.

Why is it that so many professing Christians have rejected the idea that God/Jesus can/will keep us safe, spiritually, in Him even if we suffer persecutions and are even killed because of our beliefs in Him.

Maybe your question answers itself . . . professing Christians. I think there are far more people who self-identify as Christian than those who have been reborn.

Satan has sold the lie that for God to keep us safe spiritually, that he has to remove His Saints from the face of the earth before he,

Um . . . you aren't turning this into a rapture timing thing, right?

Our relationship with God/Jesus must include every part of our being in our worship of Him. There should be no part of our being that we should keep for ourselves and separate from God.

Amen!! And in fact,

Having been baptized, we are immersed into Christ. He has come to live in us. We are alive in Him. I've been crucified together with Christ, yet I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me, and the life I live, I live by the faith of the Son of God, Who loves me, and gave Himself for me.

These are all passages which, I submit, show such a unification between God and His children, there is no need to ever fear or hesitate being completely open and and honest and yielded to God. I think as we grow up we learn the cruelty of others, and come to expect that from just anyone, even God.

In Him is no darkness at all. None.

We are His children, and He loves us without end.

Much love!

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP.. this is a good topic, "Follow the Grammar . . .", wonderful. may I ask this, in following the Grammer....... in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." in the grammer here we have the Word "WITH" God, correct, and the Word "WAS" God, correct. as you said, "a doctrine can come from a single verse". so is the doctrine of a three person Godhead is found in this verse? yes, or no?

your reply please.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[marks]

Addressing the OP.. this is a good topic, "Follow the Grammar . . .", wonderful. may I ask this, in following the Grammer....... in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." in the grammer here we have the Word "WITH" God, correct, and the Word "WAS" God, correct. as you said, "a doctrine can come from a single verse". so is the doctrine of a three person Godhead is found in this verse? yes, or no?

your reply please.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

You want to engage me in a trinity debate?

While a doctrine can come from a single verse, that does not mean all doctrines come from one verse only.

You are making kind of a leap there. Do you see "three persons" in John 1:1?

Much love!

 

[101G]

You want to engage me in a trinity debate?

While a doctrine can come from a single verse, that does not mean all doctrines come from one verse only.

You are making kind of a leap there. Do you see "three persons" in John 1:1?

Much love!

Did I ask you to debate the trinity? ... well... no, your topice... "Follow the Grammar . . ."
I see only ONE person, based on the GRAMMER, and you?


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[marks]

Did I ask you to debate the trinity?

so is the doctrine of a three person Godhead is found in this verse? yes, or no?

 

[marks]

based on the GRAMMER,

How many persons in this passage?

Considering that the Word is identified as the One Who became flesh, so we have to go a little abroad to answer your question, we have the word, who was made flesh, who is called God here, and the word is also with God. So how many does that make?

Much love!

 

[101G]

View attachment 13294
How many persons in this passage?

Considering that the Word is identified as the One Who became flesh, so we have to go a little abroad to answer your question, we have the word, who was made flesh, who is called God here, and the word is also with God. So how many does that make?

Much love!

ONE only, diversified in flesh.

lets back up the ONE person, using the word, "WITH". Now I answered you, please answer me. listen, Scripture, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

ok Marks, how many person is that the First "WITH" the last. read Isaiah 41:4 again before you answer.

NOW YOUR ANSWER PLEASE.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[marks]

ONE only, diversified in flesh.

lets back up the ONE person, using the word, "WITH". Now I answered you, please answer me. listen, Scripture, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

ok Marks, how many person is that the First "WITH" the last. read Isaiah 41:4 again before you answer.

NOW YOUR ANSWER PLEASE.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Sorry . . . not doing a Trinity debate with you. Been there, done that.

Personally I believe in addressing such matters in the site statement of faith.

Hm, just checked, it actually is . . .

We believe that God is the Creator, Sustainer, and Ruler of the universe. We attest that God has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. (Genesis 1:1, 26-27, Genesis 3:22, Deuteronomy 6:4, Psalm 90:2, John 1:1, John 10:30, Romans 3:30, II Corinthians 13:14, I Peter 1:2)

Christianity Board Statement of Faith

Isaiah 41:4 (Brenton's English translation of the Septuagint)
4) Who has wrought and done these things? he has called it who called it from the generations of old; I God, the first and to all futurity, I AM.

Comparing the English translation of Hebrew with the English translation of Greek from another place? OK.

But what happens when we use the Greek to elucidate Greek?

You can see Brenton's take on Isaiah above.

Greek prepositions, like the rest of Koine Greek, are wonderfully precise.

Much love!

 

[marks]

ONE only, diversified in flesh.

lets back up the ONE person, using the word, "WITH". Now I answered you, please answer me. listen, Scripture, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

ok Marks, how many person is that the First "WITH" the last. read Isaiah 41:4 again before you answer.

NOW YOUR ANSWER PLEASE.

Remember . . . when you start escalating into larger fonts and ALL CAPS!!! well, it just comes across to me as trying to use style to make up for lack of substance.

Reasonable and logical assertions, with clear Scripture which is not being mishandled, that's what captures my attention.

Much love!

 

[101G]

Sorry . . . not doing a Trinity debate with you. Been there, done that.

Personally I believe in addressing such matters in the site statement of faith.

Hm, just checked, it actually is . . .

tis is no trinity debate, but GRAMMER. see if you're going to apply GRAMMER in one place then you must apply the same GRAMMER in every place.

now, is it that you believe that your Grammer might reveal something that you might not believe in? is that it?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[marks]

tis is no trinity debate, but GRAMMER. see if you're going to apply GRAMMER in one place then you must apply the same GRAMMER in every place.

now, is it that you believe that your Grammer might reveal something that you might not believe in? is that it?

Isaiah 41:4 (Brenton's English translation of the Septuagint)
4) Who has wrought and done these things? he has called it who called it from the generations of old; I God, the first and to all futurity, I AM.

Comparing the English translation of Hebrew with the English translation of Greek from another place? OK.

But what happens when we use the Greek to elucidate Greek?

You can see Brenton's take on Isaiah above.

Greek prepositions, like the rest of Koine Greek, are wonderfully precise.

Much love!

Let's go apples and apples . . .

Much love!

 

[marks]

now, is it that you believe that your Grammer might reveal something that you might not believe in? is that it?

One of those "gotcha" questions?

?

 

[101G]

One of those "gotcha" questions?

?

first thanks for the reply, second, did you take it that way? if you did, then stay on topic and examine the "GRAMMER" of Isaiah 41:4.

so again, do the word, "WITH", in Isaiah 41:4, in reference to the First and the last of the LORD, "grammarly" indicate two separate and distinct person(s)? yes or no?

thanks for your answer in advance...

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[marks]

first thanks for the reply, second, did you take it that way? if you did, then stay on topic and examine the "GRAMMER" of Isaiah 41:4.

so again, do the word, "WITH", in Isaiah 41:4, in reference to the First and the last of the LORD, "grammarly" indicate two separate and distinct person(s)? yes or no?

Again, let's use Greek to study Greek, and Hebrew to study Hebrew. These are very different languages, very different.

Isaiah 41:4 (Brenton's English translation of the Septuagint)
4) Who has wrought and done these things? he has called it who called it from the generations of old; I God, the first and to all futurity, I AM.

Comparing the English translation of Hebrew with the English translation of Greek from another place? OK.

But what happens when we use the Greek to elucidate Greek?

You can see Brenton's take on Isaiah above.

Greek prepositions, like the rest of Koine Greek, are wonderfully precise.

Do you see how Brenton translated from the Greek LXX there in Isaiah? And of course the LXX was translated while Hebrew was still spoken, not a dead language as it is now.

Let's stick with the Greek.

Much love!

 

[101G]

Again, let's use Greek to study Greek, and Hebrew to study Hebrew. These are very different languages, very different.



Do you see how Brenton translated from the Greek LXX there in Isaiah? And of course the LXX was translated while Hebrew was still spoken, not a dead language as it is now.

Let's stick with the Greek.

Much love!

translating a word, and understand the word is two different animals. so how about the English for understanding.

With: 1. accompanied by (another person or thing). 2. possessing (something) as a feature or accompaniment.

do you agree with the definition? yes or no. if not look it up, and post the definition.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[marks]

translating a word, and understand the word is two different animals. so how about the English for understanding.

With: 1. accompanied by (another person or thing). 2. possessing (something) as a feature or accompaniment.

do you agree with the definition? yes or no. if not look it up, and post the definition.

No . . . you've picked an OT Hebrew passage, which you want to limit how we might translate it, even given what Hebrew is, as a language.

You've ignored Brentons LXX translation as it shows how he sees it differently from you.

And now you want to quibble over the definitions of English propositions?


Here is what we're looking at. "Pros", toward, the Word was Toward God, and the Word was God.

Looking back to the Isaiah passage, this is from the LXX itself . . .



"and into the coming", this was how they understood this passage. Again, these were the native speakers.

So this doesn't have a bearing on how we read John 1:1, and we still find that the Word both was God, and was "toward" God. Or as often translated in the English, with God.

Much love!

 

[Jay Ross]

ONE only, diversified in flesh.

lets back up the ONE person, using the word, "WITH". Now I answered you, please answer me. listen, Scripture, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

ok Marks, how many person is that the First "WITH" the last. read Isaiah 41:4 again before you answer.

NOW YOUR ANSWER PLEASE.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

@marks what is being translated as "with" by 101G is best understood to be as "an Entity" where God is referring to himself and the verse would be better understood if it was translated in this manner: -

Isaiah 41:4: -

Who has performed and accomplished it,
Calling forth the generations/ages from the beginning?
'I, the Lord, am the first, {and} with the last/last entity. I am He.'"​

This is the Hebrew interlinear I use from PC Study Bible: -



and for me the LXX interlinear that you copied does not seem to express the same message context as shown above.

H:0853 has the understanding of an entity, i.e. in this case "God," and is considered to not be translatable from the Hebrew into the English language.

​

​

Just as we should be cautious with the English Translation scholars, we also should be cautious with the Israelite Greek translators.

It is my view that the LXX does not convey the same message content as is found in the Hebrew source text.

Following the Grammar, although important, can also lead us astray if we do not understand the limitations of the particular source scriptures that we use.

Shalom