Food for Thought on Chris-tmas Holydays

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precepts

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I just thought that I should share some thoughts on our American Holy-day of Chris-tmas. After doing some research on a roman goddess called Cybele, I found out that her son and consort called Attis is/was represented by the Evergreen pine tree and that Cybele, the mother goddess is often pictured standing at the feet of a cross. Hmmm! According to the article, Jeremiah is referring to this exact practice in;
Jer 10:1 Hear the word which the LORD speaks to you, O house of Israel. Jer 10:2 Thus says the LORD: "Do not learn the way of the Gentiles; Do not be dismayed at the signs of heaven, For the Gentiles are dismayed at them. Jer 10:3 For the customs of the peoples [are] futile; For [one] cuts a tree from the forest, The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. Jer 10:4 They decorate it with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers So that it will not topple. Jer 10:5 They [are] upright, like a palm tree, And they cannot speak; They must be carried, Because they cannot go [by themselves]. Do not be afraid of them, For they cannot do evil, Nor can they do any good."
Wikipedia Article on Attis:
Attis was originally a local semi-deity of Phrygia, associated with the great Phrygian trading city of Pessinos, which lay under the lee of Mount Agdistis. The mountain was personified as a daemon, whom foreigners associated with the Great Mother Cybele.The story of his origins from Agdistis, as told to the traveller Pausanias, have some distinctly non-Greek elements: Pausanias was told that the daemon Agdistis initially bore both male and female attributes. But the Olympian gods, fearing Agdistis, cut off the male organ and cast it away. There grew up from it an almond-tree, and when its fruit was ripe, Nana who was a daughter of the river Sangarios picked an almond and laid it in her bosom. The almond disappeared, and she became pregnant. Nana abandoned the baby (Attis). The infant was tended by a he-goat. As Attis grew, his long-haired beauty was godlike, and Agdistis as Cybele, then fell in love with him. But the foster parents of Attis sent him to Pessinos, where he was to wed the king's daughter. According to some versions the King of Pessinos was Midas. Just as the marriage-song was being sung, Agdistis/Cybele appeared in her transcendent power, and Attis went mad and cut off his genitals. Attis' father-in-law-to-be, the king who was giving his daughter in marriage, followed suit, prefiguring the self-castrating corybantes who devoted themselves to Cybele. But Agdistis repented and saw to it that the body of Attis should neither rot at all nor decay.[2]Attis was reborn as the evergreen pine. At the temple of Cybele/Rhea in Pessinos, the mother of the gods was still called Agdistis, the geographer Strabo recounted.[3] Sculpture of Attis. Museum of Ephesus, Efes, Turkey.As neighboring Lydia came to control Phrygia, the cult of Attis was given a Lydian context too. Attis is said to have introduced to Lydia the cult of the Mother Goddess Cybele, incurring the jealousy of Zeus, who sent a boar to destroy the Lydian crops. Then certain Lydians, with Attis himself, were killed by the boar. Pausanias adds, to corroborate this story, that the Gauls who inhabited Pessinos abstained from pork. This myth element may have been invented solely to explain the unusual dietary laws of the Lydian Gauls. In Rome, the eunuch followers of Cybele were known as Galli ("Gauls").As the orgiastic cult of Cybele spread from Anatolia to Greece and eventually to Rome in the time of Claudius, the cult of Attis, her reborn eunuch consort, accompanied her. The first literary reference to Attis is the subject of one of the most famous poems by Catullus.[4] but it appears that the cult of Attis at Rome was not attached to the earlier-established cult of Cybele until the early Empire.[5]A marble bas-relief of Cybele in her chariot and Attis, from Magna Graecia, is in the archaeological museum, Venice. A finely executed silvery brass Attis that had been ritually consigned to the Mosel was recovered during construction in 1963 and is kept at the Rheinisches Landesmuseum of Trier (see link for illustration). It shows the typically Anatolian costume of the god: trousers fastened together down the front of the legs with toggles and the Phrygian cap.In 2007, in the ruins of Herculaneum a wooden throne was discovered adorned with a relief of Attis beneath a sacred pine tree, gathering cones. Historical records indicate that the cult of Attis was popular in Herculaneum at the time of the eruption of Vesuvius in 79 AD.
Please note that the Hanukka tree is also a Evergreen pine tree:
A Hanukkah bush is bush or tree —real or simulated— that some American and Canadian Jewish families display in their homes for the duration of Hanukkah. It may, for all intents and purposes, be a Christmas tree (without any Christian ornaments).The Hanukkah bush is a bone of contention between those Jews who see it, especially in it is "menorah look-alike" manifestations, as a distinctly Jewish plant badge; and those Jews who regard it as an assimilationist variation of a Christmas tree — especially when it is indistinguishable from the latter. The latter group are concerned about Jews who appear to inch their way away from Jewish and into Christian theological traditions.The Hanukkah bush is all but unknown outside Canada and the United States, where it is apparently most typically displayed by Ashkenazi Jews from the Reform and Reconstructionist traditions.
Wikipedia's article on Cybele:
Originally a Hittite and Phrygian goddess, Cybele (Greek: Κυβέλη), was a deification of the Earth Mother and was worshipped in Anatolia from Neolithic times. As with Gaia (the "Earth"), or her Minoan equivalent Rhea, Cybele embodies the fertile Earth, a goddess of caverns and mountains, walls and fortresses, nature, wild animals (especially lions and bees). She has been identified with the Hurrian goddess Hebat.The goddess was known among the Greeks as Meter or Meter oreie ("Mountain-Mother"), or, with a particular Anatolian sacred mountain in mind, Idaea, inasmuch as she was supposed to have been born on Mount Ida in Anatolia, or equally Dindymene or Sipylene, with her sacred mountains Mount Dindymon (in Mysia and variously located) or Mount Sipylus in mind. In Roman mythology, her equivalent was Magna Mater or "Great Mother".Her Ancient Greek title, Potnia Theron, also associated with the Minoan Great Mother, alludes to her Neolithic roots as the "Mistress of the Animals". She becomes a life-death-rebirth deity in connection with her resurrection of her son and consort, Attis. She is associated with her lion throne and her chariot drawn by lions.Walter Burkert, who treats Cybele among "foreign gods" in Greek Religion notes that "The cult of the Great Mother, Meter, presents a complex picture insofar as indigenous, Minoan-Mycenean tradition is here intertwined with a cult taken over directly from the Phrygian kingdom of Asia Minor"[1][2] The inscription matar occurs frequently in her Phrygian sites (Burkert). Kubileya is usually read as a Phrygian adjective "of the mountain", so that the inscription may be read Mother of the Mountain, and this is supported by Classical sources (Roller 1999, pp. 67–68). Another theory is that her name can be traced to the Luwian Kubaba, the deified queen of the Third Dynasty of Kish worshiped at Carchemish and Hellenized to Kybebe (Munn 2004, Motz 1997, pp. 105-106). With or without the etymological connection, Kubaba and Matar certainly merged in at least some aspects, as the genital mutilation later connected with Cybele's cult is associated with Kybebe in earlier texts, but in general she seems to have been more a collection of similar tutelary goddesses associated with specific Anatolian mountains or other localities, and called simply "mother" (Motz). Later, Cybele's most ecstatic followers were males who ritually castrated themselves, after which they were given women's clothing and assumed "female" identities, who were referred to by one third-century commentator, Callimachus, in the feminine as Gallai, but to whom other contemporary commentators in ancient Greece and Rome referred to as Gallos or Galli.There is no mention of these followers in Classical references although they related that her priestesses led the people in orgiastic ceremonies with wild music, drumming, dancing, and drinking. She was associated with the mystery religion concerning her son, Attis, who was castrated, died of his wounds, and resurrected by his mother. The dactyls were part of her retinue.Roman CybeleAccording to Livy in 10 CE, an archaic version of Cybele, from Pessinos in Phrygia, as mentioned above, that embodied the Great Mother was ceremoniously and reverently moved to Rome, marking the official beginning of her cult there. Rome was embroiled in the Second Punic War at the time (218 to 201 BCE). An inspection had been made of the Sibylline Books and some oracular verses had been discovered that announced that if a foreign foe should carry war into Italy, that foe could be driven out and conquered if the Mater Magna were brought from Pessinos to Rome. The Romans also consulted the Greek oracle at Delphi, which also recommended bringing the Magna Mater "from her sanctuary in Asia Minor to Rome."[4] Publius Cornelius Scipio Nasica was ordered to go to the port of Ostia, accompanied by all the matrons, to meet the goddess. He was to receive her image as she left the vessel, and when brought to land he was to place her in the hands of the matrons who were to bear her to her destination, the Temple of Victory on the Palatine Hill. The day on which this event took place, 12 April, was observed afterwards as a festival, the Megalesian.[5]Plutarch relates that in 103 BCE, Battakes, a high priest of Cybele, journeyed to Rome to announce a prediction of Gaius Marius's victory over the Cimbri and Teutoni. A. Pompeius, plebeian tribune, together with a band of ruffians, chased Battakes off of the Rostra. Pompeius supposedly died of a fever a few days later.[6]Under the emperor Augustus, Cybele enjoyed great prominence thanks to her inclusion in Augustan ideology. Augustus restored Cybele's temple, which was located next to his own palace on the Palatine Hill. On the cuirass of the Prima Porta of Augustus, the tympanon of Cybele lies at the feet of the goddess Tellus. Livia, the wife of Augustus, ordered cameo-cutters to portray Cybele with her likeness.[7] The Malibu statue of Cybele bears the visage of Livia.[8]. The cult seems to have been fully accepted under Claudius as the festival of Magna Mater and Attis are included within the stes religious calendar. At the same time the chief priest of the cult (the archigallus) was permitted to be a Roman citizen, so long as he was not a eunuch. 1st century BC marble statue of Cybele from Formia, CampaniaUnder the Roman Empire the most important festival of Cybele was the Hilaria, taking place between March 15 and March 28. It symbolicaly commemorated the death of Attis and his resurrection by Cybele, involving days of mourning followed by rejoicing. Celebrations also took place on 4 April with the Megalensia festival, the anniversary of the arrival of the goddess (i.e the Black Stone) in Rome. On the 10th April, the anniversary of the consecration of her temple on the Palatine, a procession of her image was carried to the Circus Maximus where races were held. These two dates seem to be incorporated within the same festival, though the evidence for what took place in between is lacking.The most famous rite of Magna Mater introduced by the Romans was the taurobolium, the initiation ceremony in which a candidate took their place in a pit beneath a wooden floor. A bull was sacrificed on the wooden floor so that the blood would run through gaps in the slats and drench the initiate in a symbolic shower of blood. This act was thought to cleanse an initiate of sin as well as signify a 'rebirth' and re-energisation. A cheaper version, known as a criobolium, involved the sacrifice of a ram. The first recorded taurobolium took place at Puteoli in AD 134 in honour of Venus Caelestia.[9]In Roman mythology, Cybele was given the name Magna Mater deorum Idaea ("great Idaean mother of the gods"), in recognition of her Phrygian origins (although this title was given to Rhea also).Roman devotion to Cybele ran deeply. Not coincidentally, when a Christian basilica was built over the site of a temple to Cybele[citation needed] to occupy the site, the sanctuary was rededicated to the Mother of God, as the Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore. However, later, Roman citizens were forbidden to become priests of Cybele, who were eunuchs like those of their Asiatic Goddess.The worship of Cybele was exported to the empire, even as far away as Mauretania, where, just outside Setif, the ceremonial "tree-bearers" and the faithful (religiosi) restored the temple of Cybele and Attis after a disastrous fire in 288 CE. Lavish new fittings paid for by the private group included the silver statue of Cybele and the chariot that carried her in procession received a new canopy with tassels in the form of fir cones. (Robin Lane Fox, Pagans and Christians, p 581.) The popularity of the Cybele cult in the city of Rome and throughout the empire is thought to have inspired the author of Book of Revelation to allude to her in his portrayal of the mother of harlots who rides the Beast. Cybele drew ire from Christians throughout the Empire; famously, St. Theodore of Amasea is said to have spent the time granted to him to recant his beliefs, burning a temple of Cybele instead.[10]Today, a modern monumental statue of Cybele can be found in one of the principal traffic circles of Madrid, the Plaza de Cibeles
Food for Thought!
 

jtartar

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Hello, I want someone to explain to me exactly what Christmas has to do with Jesus. Most students of the Holy Scriptures know that Jesus was born around the first of October. Remember that when Gabriel came to announce to Mary about the birth od Jesus, the shephards were in the fields at night tending their sheep, Luke 2:1-8. Most also know that the date of 25 Dec was celebrated for hundreds of years before Jesus was born. One of the celebrations was the The Birthday of the Sun, The Saturnalia. Look this up in your encyclopedia. The date of Jesus supposed birthdate was changed by the Pope of Rome, because the date of Dec 25 was already celebrated by the Pagan people and they were making no headway in stopping this celebration. They just changed the date to the Birth of Jesus and allowed the same celebrations to continue. Exactly where does the giving of gifts to each other come from. When the Magi came to see Jesus they gave gifts to Jesus, not to themselves, Matt 2:1,10,11. Where does the yule log and the Christmas Tree come from?? These were all PAGAN celebrations that were celebrated many years before Jesus was born. Please, Your encyclopedia!!! Exactly how does getting drunk and acting like fools give proper respect to the Holy Birth of Jesus, the savior of the world???
 

cedarhart

When good men do nothing, evil will triumph.Take a
Nov 17, 2008
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"According to Scripture Christ was born in the very early fall"The Birth of John the Baptist and Christ: We are told by Luke that John the Baptist was born six months earlier than Christ. If we can determine the date of John’s birth it will give us an approximate date for our Savior’s birth. John’s birth was also miraculous and Luke again is the one who gives us a detailed account of it. John’s father was Zacharias and the key points that Luke makes are that he was officiating in the Temple when the prophecy came to him of the birth of his son, the future John the Baptist, and that he was of the course of Abijah. This gives us the time of year that he was officiating in the temple. From the time that his course was completed and he returned home until his wife conceived would in fulfillment of the angel’s prophecy and according to "the manner of women" would have been within one month. Approximately nine months later John would have been born. And approximately six months later Christ would have been born. Computing all this out gives us a rough window in time within which the Lord Jesus Christ would have been born. And this likely period of time turns out to be from some time in mid to late September to mid to late October. Exact computation is not possible because the Hebrew calendar depended on the phases of the moon. The course of Abijah was the eighth course so Zacharias would have officiated the eighth week after the beginning of the New Year. The new year was in the Spring as the Passover was on the fifteenth of the first month. This places the conception of John approximately in June and the birth of Christ about 15 months later in September. (Note: Since there were only 24 courses they each served for a week twice a year so it is of course possible that that all this was exactly six months later in the year. However, as we shall see all the other clues point to the fall of the year and almost every commentator that has studied this and has rejected the traditional December 25th date has arrived at a date in the fall.) It is usually accepted that Christ was conceived on or around December 25 and born on or around September 29. Luke 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. 37 For with God nothing shall be impossible. 38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth. 41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: This verse also confirms that life begins at conception for the Spirit of Christ was immediately recognized by John in his mother's womb. The Shepherds of Bethlehem: Luke is also the one to inform us that the shepherds were still overnighting in the fields around Bethlehem. It was not the custom for shepherds to keep the flocks out in the fields in the dead of winter. It would be very cold in the Judean hills in December and the shepherds did not abide in the fields by night that late in the season. In fact late fall was the rainy season in Palestine and the shepherds brought the flocks in from the fields before the beginning of the heavy fall rains. The rainy season generally started sometime from mid to late October.
 

cedarhart

When good men do nothing, evil will triumph.Take a
Nov 17, 2008
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God's Christmas Treehttp://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=633My mentor has always taught that we should not make our children be social outcasts by making them "different" with their friends and others. This could actually "turn them off" to religion. They suffer the ridicule of being "holier than thou" among others. The most important points to consider is that you have taught your children and family members the correct reason for the celebration. It is to honor Christ's conception. Even if it to celebrate His birth, what harm is really done. Have you ever celebrated your own birthday later or on another day? It's the knowledge that counts, not having to prove to society that you're special as you have to make an issue out of it. One does run that risk when refusing to acknowledge a day of celebration. Everyone knows that Christmas is for celebrating Christ's birth. The exchange of gifts is to show others that you are thinking of them and love them. There's nothing wrong with that at all. Many years, I have given my children things that I made for them. One year we weren't even sure that we would be able to afford the holiday. I wrote them personal poems expressing how much I loved them and framed them and decorated the frames. They loved them and at my daughter's wedding, it was read. It was a precious moment.Children don't worship Santa Claus unless they're taught to. They only know what we teach them and a Christian is to teach family what the true meaning of honoring Christ is for. It's one day a year that recognizes His birth and celebrates it. God compares Himself to an evergreen tree as it is always green with life and never dies. His Temples in the Old Testament were filled with Cedar trees that are evergreens and repel the enemy being insects. It is in a sense always pure and steadfast as is Father. A really good idea at Christmas is to purchase an evergreen that is in a pot and alive. Plant it after the holiday to remember the love you shared and the joy of the day. Holidays are ALWAYS what one makes them. Teach your children and family well. It's what you believe that counts.
 

bullfighter

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Jan 21, 2008
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Hello, I want someone to explain to me exactly what Christmas has to do with Jesus. Most students of the Holy Scriptures know that Jesus was born around the first of October. Remember that when Gabriel came to announce to Mary about the birth od Jesus, the shephards were in the fields at night tending their sheep, Luke 2:1-8. Most also know that the date of 25 Dec was celebrated for hundreds of years before Jesus was born. One of the celebrations was the The Birthday of the Sun, The Saturnalia. Look this up in your encyclopedia. The date of Jesus supposed birthdate was changed by the Pope of Rome, because the date of Dec 25 was already celebrated by the Pagan people and they were making no headway in stopping this celebration. They just changed the date to the Birth of Jesus and allowed the same celebrations to continue. Exactly where does the giving of gifts to each other come from. When the Magi came to see Jesus they gave gifts to Jesus, not to themselves, Matt 2:1,10,11. Where does the yule log and the Christmas Tree come from?? These were all PAGAN celebrations that were celebrated many years before Jesus was born. Please, Your encyclopedia!!! Exactly how does getting drunk and acting like fools give proper respect to the Holy Birth of Jesus, the savior of the world???
keep up the ????????????s you will see the truth of it all ,and maybe be able to stand up or a change in the way we whitewash pagen traditions to a kid friendly deception...and then maybe we will see the mark when it is applied to our culture...and then not run the wrong way ,when god calls us......we can drop the pagan 25 and find a good day to cellibrate..
 

cedarhart

When good men do nothing, evil will triumph.Take a
Nov 17, 2008
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The number 25 is actually a pretty good number! It is 55555, 5 5's. That's great. It's not the day that is worshipped. Christ should be honored everyday. But just as we love our family members everyday, we want to honor them on their birthday to celebrate that they are with us. The "mark" is what you choose to believe. 80% of Americans believe in God according to polls. It is such a common knowledge, nowadays, that Christmas is to honor Christ and not Santa Claus as that is only for children. He's similar to having a clown come to the birthday party. A true Christian realizes this and will teach their children wisely. Setting an example of love and understanding is much more of a witness, in this case, than to make another feel like a heathen. That will make you need to turn and offer your other cheek as you have been arrogant and insulted them.Blessings at Christ's Recognized Day!Cedarhart
 

precepts

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Ecc 7:1 A good name [is] better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one's birth.
It doesn't matter when Christ was born, the point is that he wasn't born on Dec 25.
 

bullfighter

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Jan 21, 2008
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The number 25 is actually a pretty good number! It is 55555, 5 5's. That's great. It's not the day that is worshipped. Christ should be honored everyday. But just as we love our family members everyday, we want to honor them on their birthday to celebrate that they are with us. The "mark" is what you choose to believe. 80% of Americans believe in God according to polls. It is such a common knowledge, nowadays, that Christmas is to honor Christ and not Santa Claus as that is only for children. He's similar to having a clown come to the birthday party. A true Christian realizes this and will teach their children wisely. Setting an example of love and understanding is much more of a witness, in this case, than to make another feel like a heathen. That will make you need to turn and offer your other cheek as you have been arrogant and insulted them.Blessings at Christ's Recognized Day!Cedarhart
and you do not get my point ,there is something alittle more serious then making the day all fuzzy and kid friendly...i do change my cheek ,this is not the matter..the matter is how you wish to fool yourself on perpose and think that it does not have repercatons.
 

cedarhart

When good men do nothing, evil will triumph.Take a
Nov 17, 2008
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"there is something alittle more serious then making the day all fuzzy and kid friendly"Ya think?! Don't assume that your the only "enlightened" one. Try to get a grip on how the presentation of your Christmas thoughts are perceived by others. Hostility breeds contempt and then no one listens. I'm pretty sure that we all get your point but do you get ours?
 

bullfighter

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Jan 21, 2008
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"there is something alittle more serious then making the day all fuzzy and kid friendly"Ya think?! Don't assume that your the only "enlightened" one. Try to get a grip on how the presentation of your Christmas thoughts are perceived by others. i am not hostile but up front and truthfull Hostility breeds contempt and then no one listens. I'm pretty sure that we all get your point but do you get ours?
tillme what was your point againbelieve me i know many are enlighted and i hope to be once in awhile...................................................................................................................[/COLOR][COLOR="Red]believe me i could get more straight forward on some subs.that is 100 percent true.but i must be some what reader friendly .that is fine.what we are talking about is standing up against the system that will bring us the mark.if you can not stand up now ,how do you think you will stand up later..what i am doing in action is saying no to the pagan 25 and the xmas tree..i am sure there is more to come ,but starting to prepare is a good thing to do now..its called practice, and that is what we do as believers in christ..i would like to make a comparisom would you stand up against people throwing there garbage in the streets in front of your house,would you stand up against whin noes and addicted people from lingering in front of your house...did you stand up against the 10s of 1000s of woman and children killed in your name ..
 

dchena

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Dec 18, 2008
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Hi there, new here,Isn't there a verse in the bible where Jesus says He does NOT WANT us to be celebrating his birthday? That His death is much more important? I can't recall where I read that, but I'm sure that I did.Can anyone help me out here, and give a location for that verse?dchena
 

bullfighter

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Jan 21, 2008
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Hi there, new here,Isn't there a verse in the bible where Jesus says He does NOT WANT us to be celebrating his birthday? That His death is much more important? I can't recall where I read that, but I'm sure that I did.Can anyone help me out here, and give a location for that verse?dchena
except to them that god wanted to know,
 

bullfighter

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Jan 21, 2008
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God's Christmas Treehttp://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=633My mentor has always taught that we should not make our children be social outcasts by making them "different" with their friends and others. This could actually "turn them off" to religion. They suffer the ridicule of being "holier than thou" among others. The most important points to consider is that you have taught your children and family members the correct reason for the celebration. It is to honor Christ's conception. Even if it to celebrate His birth, what harm is really done. Have you ever celebrated your own birthday later or on another day? It's the knowledge that counts, not having to prove to society that you're special as you have to make an issue out of it. One does run that risk when refusing to acknowledge a day of celebration. Everyone knows that Christmas is for celebrating Christ's birth. The exchange of gifts is to show others that you are thinking of them and love them. There's nothing wrong with that at all. Many years, I have given my children things that I made for them. One year we weren't even sure that we would be able to afford the holiday. I wrote them personal poems expressing how much I loved them and framed them and decorated the frames. They loved them and at my daughter's wedding, it was read. It was a precious moment.Children don't worship Santa Claus unless they're taught to. They only know what we teach them and a Christian is to teach family what the true meaning of honoring Christ is for. It's one day a year that recognizes His birth and celebrates it. God compares Himself to an evergreen tree as it is always green with life and never dies. His Temples in the Old Testament were filled with Cedar trees that are evergreens and repel the enemy being insects. It is in a sense always pure and steadfast as is Father. A really good idea at Christmas is to purchase an evergreen that is in a pot and alive. Plant it after the holiday to remember the love you shared and the joy of the day. Holidays are ALWAYS what one makes them. Teach your children and family well. It's what you believe that counts.
but really do you want us to eat the [lets fool them trick]so that they are excepted.i know the beauty of what we want xmas to be .but fooing yourself and others is not the answer.and fooling the children in by far not the answer.they will be just sucked in as hard or harder then you...sometimes truth has a nongreeable point to it.it is up to us to make the right choice....have a good celibration forget the ,we do it for jesus thing.forget the pagan 25 and drop the tree...and then we will deal with easter later...
 

Christina

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Again Bullfighter we are not judged on days we worship or holidays we are judged by whats in our heart If we know its not really Christ's birthday so what if we celebrate him on that day or any other day as long as we know the truth. We are NOT celebrating the pagan day but our Lord and savior again you behave as a Pharasee sticking to ridgid rules and regulations like they are God ...God is love of his children for the truth in their hearts not what day they honor him.
 

bullfighter

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Jan 21, 2008
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Again Bullfighter we are not judged on days we worship or holidays we are judged by whats in our heart If we know its not really Christ's birthday so what if we celebrate him on that day or any other day as long as we know the truth. We are NOT celebrating the pagan day but our Lord and savior again you behave as a Pharasee sticking to ridgid rules and regulations like they are God ...God is love of his children for the truth in their hearts not what day they honor him.
i never said you would be judged by the day,its what the day put in your heart [like the love of money thing]and you no that xmas has nothing to do with christ birthday ,you know where the day came from.you know the tree thing is wrong..your statement makes it ok for kids to have wee ji boards.the day is not about jesus birth,people bring many other things into it..and the luk warm christians support it..its like the christians that supported slavery in the 1700s.do you remember from history what went on for so long to get rid of slavery...the people are slaves to xmas and many other things and many christians support it in there luk warm heart....thats the truth of it ,you may protect what you like [and my main point was that satan was successfull about xmas and easter,he will be stronger with the MARK ,THIS IS MY POINT....
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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Figured .......
rolleyes.gif
May I remid you of Colossians 2:16 bullfighter?
 

bullfighter

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Figured .......
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May I remid you of Colossians 2:16 bullfighter?
that is a good point,are you making it a holy day..you know god has holy days and sabbaths that has never been changed the same as the new moon has not been changed....i do not judge anyone on it..i am just warning of the misleading and the misleading of the mark will be even greater
 

cedarhart

When good men do nothing, evil will triumph.Take a
Nov 17, 2008
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On the "Christian Discussion Forum", on the 3rd page, is a topic on "Take a Stand!" by me. You may find it interesting. There are also discussion on the "Mark" and what it stands for:"Christian Prophecy & End Times Forum - Mark of the beast!?" 11-25-2008, 04:24 PM by me. The "Mark" is what one believe and not a physical mark. You assume to much by insisting that others are not informed and that it is your duty to educate all of us.Again, you are not the first to bring it to every one's attention regarding the "truth" about Christmas and you won't be the last. The "Truth" is that persons celebrate Christ's Birthday on that day. The "Truth" is that God refers to Himself as an "Evergreen" and makes many references to fir trees. The "Truth" is that God has many days that are special and celebrated. Christ attended Weddings and celebrated.We are His children and we celebrate special occassions. Does it really matter that the date is not perfect? What is perfect? Nothing but God. I am not "fooling" myself or my children as you suggest and I doubt that most persons do, as you want to believe. As I stated before, having Santa at Christmas is similar to having a clown at a Birthday Party to assist in the celebration. We are eternally grateful that Christ had a birthday! Or we would all be lost. There is nothing wrong with recognizing a particular day of the year to especially remember that, even though we love Him all year round. If you deny your children or make them to be outcasts because of your hardline approach, you run the risk of turning them off towards God, which has happened to others. Luk 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. Teach, teach, teach, your children what's right and allow them to enjoy Jesus and life. Set an example for those around you without appearing to be arrogant and making them feel like heathens. Nobody worships Santa or the Tree except pagans and I don't even think that they worship Santa. Take a deep breath and share your knowledge but don't ram it down anyone's throat just to be righteous, you'll lose.Blessings to you for your efforts,Cedarhart
 

bullfighter

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Jan 21, 2008
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Luk 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. Teach, teach, teach, your children wthat's right and allow them to enjoy Jesus and life. Set an example for those around you without , Blessings to you for your efforts,well i guess you still do not get my point,the truth about xmas you all ammitted to,but choose to favor it one way or another,knowing what you say, this is how the mark will be even more harder to deny and easy for you to accept..this is the truth of it..you think we play in a game of words and interpertation...this thing that comes to us will be so real that it will make the things in irac and africa look like tv shows....you can not take the truth and wish to white wash it, the same as christians has done for many many years......remember your own words about teaching the children.......xmas day is a pagan day from old ,the tree is wrong..and you forget the feast of god that till you to keep forever.....jesus said in plain words what you do,with your traditions and forsaking the commands of god.......i do not judge you ,so do not invalidate me with them words .i am showing you truth [plain in the word of god]
 
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