For By Grace Are Ye Saved Through Faith; And That Not Of Yourselves:

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WalterandDebbie

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Wednesday 12-21-22 4th. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Kislev 26, 5783 91st. Fall Day

Ephesians 2

Old Condition: Dead To God

1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Reconciliation Of Jews And Gentiles

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Love, Walter and Debbie
 
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Scott Downey

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8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The gift of faith
God saves us by His grace, meaning his unmerited favor towards us
God uses faith as a means of salvation, that faith we have is not of ourselves. it is His gift.

The contrast is between a faith not of us versus our works.

Jesus is the author of your faith.

Another proof is in Romans 12
3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

Your faith to believe came from God, it was not of yourselves but was the gift of God. And God does not do this for all people, just the ones God has called and chosen, only they will have this faith and only those will be with Christ.

Revelation 17:14
These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.”

How many who read this believe it just like it is written?
Called and chosen come before your faith happens.
 
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brightfame52

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So are we legally Justified before God before we are given faith to believe?
 

WalterandDebbie

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So are we legally Justified before God before we are given faith to believe?
Hello brightfame52, I think that We cannot be justified before God except through faith in the sacrifice of God's Son, Jesus Christ, and then God gives us grace. This does not excuse us from keeping the law because He says those who keep the law will be justified; therefore, keeping the law cannot justify.


Love, Walter and Debbie
 

brightfame52

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walteranddeb

Hello brightfame52, I think that We cannot be justified before God except through faith in the sacrifice of God's Son, Jesus Christ, and then God gives us grace.

I disagree, I believe the scripture teaches that those who Christ died for are justified by grace and or His Blood before apart from their faith or believing.
 

Scott Downey

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walteranddeb



I disagree, I believe the scripture teaches that those who Christ died for are justified by grace and or His Blood before apart from their faith or believing.
There is a necessary process required to fulfill all righteousness, even though we all who are saved are all predestined beforehand to come to the faith. This is a legal process, justification.
Clear example shown in v12, it is however also a predetermined outcome. But you can not ignore that God has an order to how He does things in the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
 

Scott Downey

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The foreknown elect must also confess Christ as Lord to be saved all for the glory of God. And only they will do that.

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
 

brightfame52

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There is a necessary process required to fulfill all righteousness, even though we all who are saved are all predestined beforehand to come to the faith. This is a legal process, justification.
Clear example shown in v12, it is however also a predetermined outcome. But you can not ignore that God has an order to how He does things in the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
How you doing ? Are you implying that those whom Christ died are not Justified before God by His Blood alone prior to them being given Faith to believe in Christ ?
 

Scott Downey

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How you doing ? Are you implying that those whom Christ died are not Justified before God by His Blood alone prior to them being given Faith to believe in Christ ?
You cannot say the elect of God are born saved, all you can say is all who are elect of God will be saved, that none of the elect chosen predestined of God will be lost. Not a single elect person can perish, they will all come to the faith, God's work is that they believe in His Son.

Another proof, look in the chain of redemption where 'justification' occurs in the process of our being glorified, verses 29 and 30.

But before our justification, God conforms us to the image of Christ, God makes us born-again first, then comes our justification.
When you are born again, then you enter the kingdom of heaven. But you cannot deprecate the process. (procedure) that God uses.


27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
 

Scott Downey

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Until a person is born again by the Holy Spirit he CANNOT SEE, CANNOT ENTER the kingdom of God.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. ...

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Until you are born again, having a new spirit created in Christ, you cannot confess your faith in Christ and be saved. That old man of the flesh has to yield to the new man of the Spirit. And every single person God makes born again sees and enters the kingdom of God.

Before that, they are not entered into the kingdom of God. And they have no clue who Christ is, they are blinded in their minds by the god of this world, the devil. All people are entirely helpless to save themselves or understand Christ in their unsaved natural state.
 

Scott Downey

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Jesus knows who are His sheep before they know HIM
Only His sheep believe and follow Christ.
Them that believe not are not His sheep.
God the Father gave to Christ all His sheep, they are those God foreknew as His people, and therefore God predestined them to hear the voice of the Shepherd when He calls to them and they will therefore follow His Son.
God gave to Christ His sheep and HE knows them fully well and all their ways too. And still He will never reject them as they are of the family of God.

23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


30 I and my Father are one.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
 

brightfame52

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s downey

You cannot say the elect of God are born saved,

Are they born legally Justified before God, forgiven of all their sins, even before they believe, based entirely on the Grace of God, the redemptive death of Christ for them Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Yes or no
 

WalterandDebbie

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s downey



Are they born legally Justified before God, forgiven of all their sins, even before they believe, based entirely on the Grace of God, the redemptive death of Christ for them Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Yes or no
Good evening brightfame52, Looking at this thread, with posts #3 through 12 I see nothing but your changing the context from the OP to your understanding when there are many sources. We have tried to reason with you about this issue.

Love, Walter
 

brightfame52

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Good evening brightfame52, Looking at this thread, with posts #3 through 12 I see nothing but your changing the context from the OP to your understanding when there are many sources. We have tried to reason with you about this issue.

Love, Walter
How you doing. Let me ask you, Do you believe the elect, those whom Christ died, when they are born dead in sin like everyone else, before they become believers, that by Christs death alone for them, they are Justified before God and forgiven of all sin ? Yes or no please.
 

WalterandDebbie

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How you doing. Let me ask you, Do you believe the elect, those whom Christ died, when they are born dead in sin like everyone else, before they become believers, that by Christs death alone for them, they are Justified before God and forgiven of all sin ? Yes or no please.
Doing fine, Yes, He knew for whom He was dying because God chose the elect before the foundation of the world.