For Those Who Deny Jesus Christ IS Almighty God

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,870
852
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
For Those Who Deny Jesus Christ IS Almighty God

There are some, like the Unitarians and Jehovah’s Witnesses, who argue, that the Bible does not teach, that Jesus Christ is “Almighty God”. The English adjective “almighty”, has the meaning of “all-powerful, unrestricted power”. It is interesting that, the Jehovah’s Witnesses in their New World Translation (NWT), have rendered the Hebrew, “êl Gibbôr”, which is one of the Titles for Jesus Christ, in Isaiah 9:6, as “Mighty God” (2003 edition). This is also the reading in the next chapter, the same Hebrew is used for Jehovah, and is also “Mighty God” (10:21). In John 1:1 they argue that the correct way to translate the Greek, “kai theos ēn ho logos”, is, “and the Word was a god”, and, that there is no Scripture where Jesus Christ is called “God”. Now, there is a clear contradiction here, as it is very clear in their own NWT, in Isaiah 9:6, that Jesus Christ is not only “God”, but, “Mighty God”. Some Jehovah’s Witnesses that I have spoken with, admit that Jesus Christ is “Mighty God”, but add, that He is not “Almighty God”. This means that they accept that there are two distinct Persons, Who are “God”, One “Almighty”, and the other, “Mighty”. This makes them guilty of Polytheism.

In John chapter 5, we read of a conversation between Jesus Christ and the Jews. In verse 17 Jesus says to them, after they question why He is working on the Sabbath Day, “But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working”. Jesus’ answer actually enraged the Jews, and they “were seeking all the more to kill Him” (verse 18). Why would this be? John explains, “because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God”. The Jews clearly understood what Jesus was saying here, He claimed that their God, was “His OWN (Greek, idiom) Father”, Who is “Personally His own”. Language that made Jesus Christ, “ison tōi theōI”, where the Greek “ison” means “equality in strength and rights”, which is “essentially equal with the Father”. Some argue that these words of the Jews are a misunderstanding of what Jesus was saying, and meant. If this were the case, Jesus does not in any way try to correct them, and rebuke them for “making Himself equal with God” the Father. Instead, a few verse later, Jesus makes a very strong self-Testimony on His own Deity and Equality with the Father. In verse 23 Jesus says:

“that all should Honour the Son just as they Honour the Father. He who does not Honour the Son does not Honour the Father who sent Him”

“Honour” is the Greek “timáō”, “honour, reverence, esteem, value, prize”. Also, “to exalt, glorify”. In Isaiah 42:8, it says, “I am Yahweh, that is My Name; I will not give My Glory to another or My Praise to idols”. The Hebrew word here “kâbôd” translated as “Glory”, is also used for, “honour, reverence, glory”.

It is very clear from what Jesus says in verse 23, if He is not given the SAME (kathōs, just as, even as, according as) “Honour” as the Father; then the Father Himself is not “Hourned”. These words would be the highest blasphemy, if, as some suppose, Jesus Christ is not Almighty God, and is no more than a created being! In fact, this verse alone is one of the strongest in the Bible, on the absolute Deity of Jesus Christ, by Himself, and His coequality with God the Father. There is not a single created being, who can ever say, “Honour me as you do Almighty God”, who would not be guilty of being deranged! If the Father is “Almighty”, then it is clear from Jesus’ own words here, that He is also Almighty God, as He says that He is to receive the same, “honour, reverence, esteem, value, prize”, as the Father. Only Someone Who is COEQUAL and COESSENTIAL with God, can ever use this language for Themselves.

In the Book of Revelation, chapter 5, we have another powerful Testimony to the absolute Deity of Jesus Christ, and His coequality with God the Father.

"And ALL of the Creation, which is in the heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and on the sea, and all things that are in them, heard I saying, to Him Who sits on the throne, and unto the Lamb, be "ALL The Blessing, and ALL The Honour, and ALL The Glory, and ALL The Might, for ever and ever. And the four living creatures said, Amen. And the elders fell down and worshipped." (so emphasized in the Greek)

Here it is very clear, that, “ALL The Blessing, and ALL The Honour, and ALL The Glory, and ALL The Might”, that is for “Him Who Sits on the Throne”, here being God the Father, is EQUALLY for “the Lamb”, Who is Jesus Christ. The Greek conjunction, “kai (and)”, is used to denote “equality and sameness”. Note in this passage, where we read, “to kratos”, which is also translated in the NWT, as “the might”, means, ALL the Might that there is. It can hardly mean, that only “some”, or the “majority” of Mighty belongs to “Him Who Sits on the Throne”, but must mean, “ALL-MIGHTY”. This, and the rest, ALSO is true of Jesus Christ. And, BOTH the Father and Jesus Christ are here WORSHIPPED. This passage is the best description as to what WORSHIP of God really is, “ALL The Blessing, and ALL The Honour, and ALL The Glory, and ALL The Might”. ALL The BLESSINGS in this world, ALL The HONOUR in this world, ALL The GLORY in this world, and ALL The MIGHT in this world, belongs to God the Father, and God the Son.

In Revelation 11:15 we read,

“And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall Reign for ever and ever”

Note the words, “He shall Reign”, is in the Greek, “basileusei”, which is in the singular number, no doubt referring to the Joint Reign of the Father and Jesus Christ (tou kuriou…tou Christou autou), Who are Two distinct Persons. There are some who misuse 1 Corinthians 15:28, to try to “prove”, that Jesus Christ is eternally “subordinate” to the Father. It is clear that this passage speaks of Jesus’ Mediatorial Kingdom, and not the eternal, which we can see from this passage in Revelation, is not one of “subordination”, but “coequality”. This is also clear from Revealtion 22:1, 3, where it says,

“And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the Throne of God and of the Lamb…the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him”

Here we have Two distinct Persons, “tou theou kai tou arniou”, literally, “the God and the Lamb”. Then we have, “tou thronou (the Throne)”, where “thronou”, is also in the singular number, as in 11:15. BOTH the Father and Jesus Christ Sit on the One Throne, as JOINT RULERS. In verse 3, we have the words, “His (autou, singular, masculine) servants”, “serve Him (autōi, singular, masculine), which includes BOTH the Father and Jesus Christ, Who are EQUALLY “Served” as Almighty God.

This is the Word of God, this is what the Word of God Teaches about the Lord Jesus Christ, that He is COEQUAL with God the Father, and is Himself ALMIGHTY GOD.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dhh712 and David H.

Dropship

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2022
2,213
1,514
113
76
Plymouth UK
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
..this is what the Word of God Teaches about the Lord Jesus Christ, that He is COEQUAL with God the Father, and is Himself ALMIGHTY GOD..

If Jesus is God why did he say-
"I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28 )
“Why do you call me good?..No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)
"Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Michiah-Imla

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,870
852
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
If Jesus is God why did he say-
"I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28 )
“Why do you call me good?..No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)
"Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)

Can you show from the OP that Jesus Christ cannot be Almighty God?

What you are referring to is Jesus Christ during His Incarnation as the God-Man and not as God in the Godhead

The passage in Luke is not a denial that Jesus Christ is God, but a question why was this person calling Him good?

Are you suggesting that Jesus is not good?
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,870
852
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,870
852
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
If Jesus is God why did he say-
"I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28 )
“Why do you call me good?..No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)
"Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)

I have a very simple question for you

Can any human person ever seriously say that everyone should HONOUR them in the SAME WAY that we HONOUR Almighty God?

If any did surely they would be considered as mad
 

Dropship

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2022
2,213
1,514
113
76
Plymouth UK
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Guys, guys, let's cut to the chase, please take this verse on board-
"God spoke in times past by the prophets, has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son" (Hebrews 1:1-2)

See, the prophets and Jesus weren't God, they were all go-betweens..:)
The early Christians got it right-

"There is one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ" (1 Timothy 2:5)



 

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,870
852
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Guys, guys, let's cut to the chase, please take this verse on board-
"God spoke in times past by the prophets, has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son" (Hebrews 1:1-2)

See, the prophets and Jesus weren't God, they were all go-betweens..:)
The early Christians got it right-

"There is one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ" (1 Timothy 2:5)



so you disregard every verse that is against what you personally believe?
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
If Jesus is God why did he say-
"I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28 )
“Why do you call me good?.. No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)
"Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)
He said all this so that you would be required to dig deeper, and not swallow all the rubbish that is recently inundating Christian forums.

Let's take Luke 18:19. What was Christ really saying? He was telling this man that if indeed He is good (perfect), then in fact He is God. And that is why He could forgive sins on earth. The unbelieving Jews knew that only God can forgive sins, yet here was this Man who not only forgave sins but healed miraculously. So what should have been the correct attitude of these people (including the Rich Young Ruler)? They all should have done what some did when they fell at the feet of Christ and worshipped Him. Indeed what the wise men did when they traveled hundreds of miles with gifts for the King of the Jews, and then worshiped Him. Also what Thomas did when he saw the Risen Lord. He exclaimed (and proclaimed) "My Lord and my God!"

When Christ came to earth in humility and deep humiliation, He voluntarily submitted His will to God the Father (who is the "Head" or authority over Christ). Thus "My Father is greater than I". At the same time He told Philip "If you have seen me you have seen the Father". He went on to say that He was in the Father, and the Father was in Him, and that they were in fact "One". And God the Father called Jesus "God" long before He came to earth. Thus we have this in Psalm 45:6,7 (cf Heb 1:8,9) where the Father addresses the Son: Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Then we have Psalm 102:25-27, where God the Father calls God the Son, the Creator, and this also quoted in Hebrews 1:10-12 which adds "And thou Lord" to this: Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

That Jesus is the Creator is not only mentioned here, but in John 1:1-3, and several other passages.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dhh712

Dropship

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2022
2,213
1,514
113
76
Plymouth UK
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
so you disregard every verse that is against what you personally believe?

It's a clear-cut issue; Jesus said straight out many times that he was the Son of God, so all you who don't believe him are definitely candidates for the naughty step..;)
"A liar denies Jesus is the Christ, and is an antichrist" (1 John 2:22/23)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Michiah-Imla

Dropship

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2022
2,213
1,514
113
76
Plymouth UK
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
It's bad enough for people to deny Jesus is the Son of God, but they're just as naughty by calling God himself a fibber, tut tut..
God said- "This is my beloved son, listen to him" (Matthew 17:5)
Hey Spock will you listen to Jesus?

"Affirmative, I'm all ears"
st-spock-station.jpg
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,870
852
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
It's a clear-cut issue; Jesus said straight out many times that he was the Son of God, so all you who don't believe him are definitely candidates for the naughty step..;)
"A liar denies Jesus is the Christ, and is an antichrist" (1 John 2:22/23)

Jesus is the "Son of God", which means that He is not "the Father". The Sonship of Jesus is Incarnational

Jesus in the Godhead is Yahweh, as are the Father and Holy Spirit
 

Dropship

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2022
2,213
1,514
113
76
Plymouth UK
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
I and others believe Jesus is the Son of God, so I suppose that makes us winners..:D
"Who has overcome the world? Whoever believes Jesus is the Son of God" (1 John 5:5)
 

heartwashed

Active Member
Jul 18, 2022
356
54
28
51
LA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There are those also, who teach that Jesus Christ is 1/3 of Almighty God, or otherwise a 2nd God.

These also deny that Jesus Christ is Almighty God.

They deny the following:

Col 2:8, Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9, For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
 
Last edited:

heartwashed

Active Member
Jul 18, 2022
356
54
28
51
LA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Guys, guys, let's cut to the chase, please take this verse on board-
"God spoke in times past by the prophets, has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son" (Hebrews 1:1-2)

See, the prophets and Jesus weren't God, they were all go-betweens..:)
The early Christians got it right-

"There is one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ" (1 Timothy 2:5)



There is one God; <even> one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.
 

heartwashed

Active Member
Jul 18, 2022
356
54
28
51
LA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I and others believe Jesus is the Son of God, so I suppose that makes us winners..:D
"Who has overcome the world? Whoever believes Jesus is the Son of God" (1 John 5:5)

But you have to consider that "the son that was given" will have the name of "The everlasting Father" (Isaiah 9:6).
 

Dropship

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2022
2,213
1,514
113
76
Plymouth UK
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
When Jesus asked his disciples who they thought he was, Simon Peter said-
“You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven." (Matthew 16:13-17)

So God has therefore also revealed it to all of us who believe Jesus is the Son..:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Michiah-Imla

heartwashed

Active Member
Jul 18, 2022
356
54
28
51
LA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
When Jesus asked his disciples who they thought he was, Simon Peter said-
“You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven." (Matthew 16:13-17)

So God has therefore also revealed it to all of us who believe Jesus is the Son..:)
Yes, I believe that Jesus is the Son who was given...

And that therefore He shall have the name "The everlasting Father"...

The zeal of the LORD of hosts shall perform this.
 

Dropship

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2022
2,213
1,514
113
76
Plymouth UK
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Jesus often prayed to God, but if he WAS God, why would he pray to himself?
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2021
2,283
1,283
113
68
Monroe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jesus often prayed to God, but if he WAS God, why would he pray to himself?

Personally, I believe there is just what John said, three persons that make up the Godhead.

I don't believe when Isaiah spoke of the Messiah being called the "Everlasting Father" that he was referring to Him as God the Father.

My opinion is that Christ became the Son of God at a point in time, with "Son" referring to His humanity. By His work on the Cross in redeeming man, He had to undo what Adam had done, becoming the Second Adam.

He brought man back into relationship with the Father. In terms of humanity, I think Isaiah was referring to Christ as the "Everlasting Father" in that capacity. Being a Man, and considering what He did for man, He is the "Father" of humanity. If not for what Christ did for man, the alternative was total annihilation of man.

I also believe that I could be wrong! This Trinity thing for the most part is beyond human reasoning and understanding, it's another realm. I certainly don't claim to completely understand it!