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For those who think Christ is not God.

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Johann, May 8, 2022.

Is Christ God?

  1. God

    23 vote(s)
    74.2%
  2. Lesser than God

    6 vote(s)
    19.4%
  3. A mere Son/Man of God.

    2 vote(s)
    6.5%
  1. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    James 1:18 KJV
    [18] Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
    All began, first century.
     
  2. Ronald David Bruno

    Ronald David Bruno Well-Known Member

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    Well, You did not offer a detailed critique yourself, you just claimed it was rubbish because you did not agree with the bold statements that he clearly backed up. The 2.65 billion have faith in God: the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, they don't have to prove it to you. Your remark was sly and a dig and not constructive either, so I gave it back to you the same way you dished it out.
    You want to be entertained?

    The "Deity of Christ, Part 1" by Phil Fernandez summarized by me:

    looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,” Titus 2:13
    >>>Do you see something there equating God and the Savior? Maybe you can, maybe not?

    “Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:” 2 Peter 1:1
    >>OH my, another referrence as God. Shall you search all the various translations to find something contrary?

    “Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.” Acts 20:28
    >> The Father did not purchase with His blood, The Holy Spirit didn't either. Let's see, who's left???

    “Thomas answered and said to Him, ‘My Lord and my God!’” John 20:28

    “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which translated means, “God with us.” Matthew 1:23
    >>> Jesus had many titles: The WORD, the Bread of Life, The Way, The Truth and the Life, the Good Shepherd, the Doorway, the Resurrection and the Life, the Alpha and the Omega, the Vine, the Light of the World, the I AM (an introduction He gave to Moses of all the I am's in the Book of John).

    For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. Colossians” 1:16-17
    >>>Jesus is the Creator!

    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” John 1:1
    >>> This plainly states, Jesus was in the Beginning, Jesus was with God and Jesus is God.

    “And the Word became flesh, and a]"> dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of b]">[b]the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.” John 1:14
    >>>God became flesh, pretty straight forward, if you didn't quite catch on to the first verse!

    But of the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
    And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom. Hebrews 1:8
    >>> Did you get that? The Father addresses the Son as GOD! H E L L O!

    Jesus accepted worship on varous occasions. Angels are forbidden to receive worship, only God is worshipped. God will not have any gods before Him. Therefore, Jesus is God.

    He forgave sins – only god can forgive sins.

    He called Himself the I AM, (Yahweh). Implying He was the one who spoke to Moses.

    He called Himself SAVIOR, when it clearly says in the OT that God alone is Savior and there is no other.

    He is the Bridegroom of Israel. The OT says God is the Bridegroom.

    He claimed to be LORD of the Sabbath, when God alone created and set apart the Sabbath.

    Are you entertained?
     
  3. face2face

    face2face Active Member

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    God did not become dying flesh.
    The Logos of God has always been.
    It became flesh and was manifested in an obedient Son.
    By Logos all things including Heaven, Earth, Jesus, you and I are created - Jesus had a beginning and an end!
    Did you not know where Jesus got his "life" from = John 5:26
    Jesus did not exist before Matthew 1:18

    It's all a wonder as per 1 Timothy 3:16

    So then...

    If Jesus was God why did he need to be vindicated by the Spirit? If indeed he is God? God has no need to vindicate Himself. If Jesus was in need of being justified and made right in Yahweh's sight, what was wrong about Jesus that he needed vindication?
     
  4. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    Let's try this...

    The Spirit(God) took on flesh?
     
  5. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    Im tired of this debate major...
    I try to simplify my questions so that a 12 year old can understand it and I want an answer that a 12 year old can comprehend, but the response is always the same.
    They do everything to ignore my questions.
    They dismiss the actions of Christ and what God actually said (this is my son) without even giving a reason.
    They quote passages that have nothing to do with my questions.
    They dismiss my "human rationale" and replace it with their rationale.
    And I don't even touch on the fact that the trinity never gets mentioned in the bible, that it's all a creation of the RCC and has pagan roots cos i know someone will just blow up and have a hissy fit.

    Can't be stuffed with it

    Another thing that baffles me is this. The RCC can't even explain the trinity and they invented it. They call it a mystery. Yet these people claim to understand the trinity using their own knowledge... Ye sure.

    And then there are the people that say God told them... Ye sure. I believe that is using the Lord's name in vain, for your own self.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2022
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  6. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    I taught hypostatic union doctrine like you do.

    I know all the lingo.

    I even used to quote Hal Lindsey about a naturalist that had to become an ant and yet remain a man when a big bulldozer was coming to destroy the anthill and decimate them....

    I taught that stuff to churches, etc.

    The God/man doctrine was my specialty.

    I messed alot of folks up in those decades.

    Good thing people forget doctrinal stuff over time and just love Jesus.
     
  7. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
     
  8. Cristo Rei

    Cristo Rei Well-Known Member

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    Now there is an honest answer...
    Faith.
    You don't have proof.
    You have faith.
    This I understand.

    Trying to explain the trinity when not even it's creator in the RCC can explain it is futile to say the least. Grasping at straws really given the fact the God said "this is my son" and that Jesus often prayed and spoke to God.

    So faith is your response.
    No rational explanation.
    Faith.
     
  9. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    Silence no doubt is prudent in this situation. Those unable to hear identify the inability to hear by accusations.
     
  10. Brakelite

    Brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Allow me to add something more to this regarding the connection between glory and the name of God.
    KJV Exodus 33:18
    18 And he (Moses) said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
    19 And he (The LORD) said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
    KJV Exodus 34:6-7
    6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
    7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

    God's glory is His character, His name a reflection of that character. "I have manifested Thy name..". I have revealed Thy true character to the world. We glorify God by doing the same... By being clothed with the righteousness of Christ.


    .

    .
     
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  11. Brakelite

    Brakelite Well-Known Member

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    I would like to suggest that what Jesus feared was the result of the world's sin being placed upon Him, and His Father finding it so repulsive Jesus would never see Him again. At the end just before Calvary, Jesus had to die the same death as us in order to be a true propitiation. That death had to be one without hope. Without a clear picture of the resurrection. He certainly had how of the resurrection days prior, but in the garden, as the sins of the world were being laid upon Him, hope diminished... His love for us however compelled Him to go through with it anyway, despite having the power and authority to call it quits, return to the Father, and be fully justified in doing so. What love! Sacrificing even His own eternal existence that we may have life. Puts in context those times when first Moses, then Paul, offered their eternal life if it meant Israel could be forgiven.
     
  12. Brakelite

    Brakelite Well-Known Member

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    KJV Romans 9:7-8
    7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
    8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
     
  13. Brakelite

    Brakelite Well-Known Member

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    KJV John 6:53-64
    53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
    54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
    55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
    56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
    57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
    58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
    59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
    60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
    61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
    62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
    63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
    64 But there are some of you that believe not.
     
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  14. Brakelite

    Brakelite Well-Known Member

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    And reducing the divinity of Jesus to mere human, or an angel, destroys that whole paradigm that truly encapsulated the true character of God Himself... Self sacrificing love.
     
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  15. Brakelite

    Brakelite Well-Known Member

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  16. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

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    Guess it would be futile to give you scripture re the eternal co-equality and eternal co existence as the eternal Huios of God?
    Was Jesus a creation?
    The Son of God was present at the creation which proves He existed before it occurred (Genesis 1:27 note the plural “Let us”)

    This you would "reason" away APAK.


    You see, I take the literal approach to Scriptures whereas you take the allegorical approach.

    I have seen the "debate" between you and marks
    your Unitarism and Christadelphian viewpoint so nothing new there.

    When was Christ "created" APAK?
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2022
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  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

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    Incorrect..and lets leave it there.
    Christ Jesus was never "created" He is the Creator..
    J.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2022
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  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

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    No, the Son was never "created" He is/haya with the Father in Gen 1.1

    You place Jesus on the same level with the created angels.
    J.
     
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  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

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    Oh my!
    I'm so sorry sister for calling you a brother!
    J.
     
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  20. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

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    You seriously need to compare scripture WITH scripture..
    J.
     
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