Forgiveness. Must we forgive ALL sins against us?

[CharismaticLady]

Matthew 6:14-15
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

But what about the other type of sins? What about wicked willful sins of lawlessness? Must we forgive the monster who murdered your child, or your family on purpose? Or only if they repent and ask? Are we commanded to do more than God does Himself? Or on the same level as God does?

 

[GISMYS_7]

You have the answer to your question==Matthew 6:14-15
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

 

[DPMartin]

Matthew 6:14-15
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

But what about the other type of sins? What about wicked willful sins of lawlessness? Must we forgive the monster who murdered your child, or your family on purpose? Or only if they repent and ask? Are we commanded to do more than God does Himself? Or on the same level as God does?

look the Lord's not stupid He knows your limits. if you can't shake it so to speak then take it before the Lord ask for mercy for not only yourself but the soul you have cause with. express your feelings on the matter if it suits you but the Lord already knows.

understand it is sufficient to ask God to have mercy on those who have offended you done you wrong so on and so forth. note Jesus when on the cross didn't say He forgave them, He ask His Father in Heaven to forgive them. because legitimately God is the Judge. when you ask Him to have mercy on some one then you are in agreement with Him if He does.

 

[marks]

Matthew 6:14-15
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

But what about the other type of sins? What about wicked willful sins of lawlessness? Must we forgive the monster who murdered your child, or your family on purpose? Or only if they repent and ask? Are we commanded to do more than God does Himself? Or on the same level as God does?

If we love others, why would we not be forgiving? Considering that God has already forgiven us, we should in the same way forgive others. I don't see qualifications on that, forgive this person, but not that person.

I think God's intent for us is to not take offense in the first place, and if we do, to forgive quickly.

Much love!

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

But what about the other type of sins? What about wicked willful sins of lawlessness? Must we forgive the monster who murdered your child, or your family on purpose? Or only if they repent and ask? Are we commanded to do more than God does Himself? Or on the same level as God does?

The word translated into "trespass" (paraptoham) is generally used in reference to insults, failing to make a goal and things like that.

Even "sin" ( the word) means to fall short then it becomes the specificity of the offense.

We are to forgive the non dangerous or damaging ones ( even the damaging ones when done accidentally)

Things such as attacks et al- not only is there no requirement to forgive or tolerate ( or roll over) we are actually supposed to engage (offensively or defensively as the situation dictates) "If you 'own a sword- sell your cloak and buy one".

Then there's repentance. Repentance is a very high standard (literally means a new mind)- thats light years beyond saying "sorry" or asking forgiveness. True repentance is to be forgiven as well. ( emphasis on true)

Hope that helps

 

[quietthinker]

Matthew 6:14-15
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

But what about the other type of sins? What about wicked willful sins of lawlessness? Must we forgive the monster who murdered your child, or your family on purpose? Or only if they repent and ask? Are we commanded to do more than God does Himself? Or on the same level as God does?

The paralytic let down through the roof on a mat didn't ask for for anything yet Jesus not only forgave him but had him skipping out of there.
The lost coin had no clue it was lost....yet it was found.
The prodigal son figured he was on a winner if he could be a servant but the Father wouldn't have it. The Father never questioned his son's sonship....forgiveness here also is evident before it was asked for.
The thief on the cross was happy to settle for being remembered....Jesus's reply blew everything he knew about God out of the water.
Those (Priests, Soldiers, Rulers) who accused and abused Jesus he prayed for to be forgiven....none of them asked....none of them expected it.

God is not a trader. Gratuity oozes in abundance from the heart of God.

If we do not forgive it is because we do not believe we are forgiven in real terms. We might mouth the words and debate our theologies yet what is in our heads has not slipped into our hearts; this I believe is what Jesus was speaking of in Matthew 6:14-15

 

[CharismaticLady]

The paralytic let down through the roof on a mat didn't ask for for anything yet Jesus not only forgave him but had him skipping out of there.
The lost coin had no clue it was lost....yet it was found.
The prodigal son figured he was on a winner if he could be a servant but the Father wouldn't have it. The Father never questioned his son's sonship....forgiveness here also is evident before it was asked for.
The thief on the cross was happy to settle for being remembered....Jesus's reply blew everything he knew about God out of the water.
Those (Priests, Soldiers, Rulers) who accused and abused Jesus he prayed for to be forgiven....none of them asked....none of them expected it.

God is not a trader. Gratuity oozes in abundance from the heart of God.

If we do not forgive it is because we do not believe we are forgiven in real terms. We might mouth the words and debate our theologies yet what is in our heads has not slipped into our hearts; this I believe is what Jesus was speaking of in Matthew 6:14-15

But QTpie, that's Universalism. And we know that is not true.

 

[quietthinker]

But QTpie, that's Universalism. And we know that is not true.

I'm trying to figure out what it is in my post that isn't true

 

[CharismaticLady]

I'm trying to figure out what it is in my post that isn't true

Motive. Jesus forgave the centurions who crucified Him because they "knew not what they were doing." That is the key to whether it is a willful sin or not. Just like Philippians 3:16. They were to live up to what they knew. So if they were doing something unintentionally, the blood of Jesus covered it. That is the difference between sins unto death, and sins NOT unto death.

 

[quietthinker]

Motive. Jesus forgave the centurions who crucified Him because they "knew not what they were doing." That is the key to whether it is a willful sin or not. Just like Philippians 3:16. They were to live up to what they knew. So if they were doing something unintentionally, the blood of Jesus covered it. That is the difference between sins unto death, and sins NOT unto death.

I think Jesus was praying for all who were involved in his execution. It is consistent with his teaching of loving those who persecute you and doing good to those who despitefully use you.....so you may be sons of your Father in heaven. It is the highest bar if we can use that expression.
The other circumstances or events I used to illustrate God forgives gratuitously illustrates this also. God does not require payment of any sorts as a pretext to forgive...think about it.

Now I know many will counter this with 'yeah but he needs blood'....that line of thinking, but again I would ask, think about it....why would he need blood?.....I'm familiar with the possible answers but I also think these haven't been thought through adequately.

Satan invented the trading system the whole world thinks is normal.... Ezekiel 28...verse eighteen highlighted.
There is more to be said about this....later

Oh, and for the record, I am not a Universalist.

 

[Tong2020]

Matthew 6:14-15
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

But what about the other type of sins? What about wicked willful sins of lawlessness? Must we forgive the monster who murdered your child, or your family on purpose? Or only if they repent and ask? Are we commanded to do more than God does Himself? Or on the same level as God does?

Forgiveness. Must we forgive ALL sins against us?

The short answer to that is yes.

That is love. That is wise. That is good. That is pleasing to God.

My question to you is, can we do that? If you can, will you do that? If not, why not?

Tong
R4000

 

[CharismaticLady]

Now I know many will counter this with 'yeah but he needs blood'....that line of thinking, but again I would ask, think about it....why would he need blood?.....I'm familiar with the possible answers but I also think these haven't been thought through adequately.

I agree. I remember that Mormons have this. I looked it up on google:

Blood atonement is a disputed doctrine in the history of Mormonism, under which the atonement of Jesus does not redeem an eternal sin. To atone for an eternal sin, the sinner should be killed in a way that allows his blood to be shed upon the ground as a sacrificial offering, so he does not become a son of perdition.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

look the Lord's not stupid He knows your limits. if you can't shake it so to speak then take it before the Lord ask for mercy for not only yourself but the soul you have cause with. express your feelings on the matter if it suits you but the Lord already knows.

understand it is sufficient to ask God to have mercy on those who have offended you done you wrong so on and so forth. note Jesus when on the cross didn't say He forgave them, He ask His Father in Heaven to forgive them. because legitimately God is the Judge. when you ask Him to have mercy on some one then you are in agreement with Him if He does.

It is an absolute lie when you say Christ didn't forgive the people who were mocking Him:

"When they hurled their insults at him(Christ), he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly." - 1 Pet. 2:23

You're overlooking what is obvious about the kind of attitude Christ displayed in that moment. He asked His Father to forgive those people because Christ didn't want to be presumptuous enough to think He was as willing to shrug it off. The fact that Christ said "they don't know what they're doing" in and of itself says He chalked it up as them doing it out of ignorance.

Now here's why the Bible says you couldn't be more wrong when you say it's perfectly fine to just express your feelings with no restraints:

"Whoever has no rule over his own spirit is like a city broken down, without walls." - Pro. 25:28

"If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one's religion is useless." -Jas. 1:26

And the tongue is a flame of fire. It is a whole world of wickedness, corrupting your entire body. It can set your whole life on fire, for it is set on fire by hell itself." - Jas. 3:6

"I said to myself, “I will watch what I do and not sin in what I say. I will hold my tongue when the ungodly are around me.” - Psa. 39:1

“But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment." - Matt. 12:36

“But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise."- Luk. 6:27-28, 31

Social media is a toxic hotbed because it is full of carnal-minded people who express their feelings with little or no regard for other people. Human limitations doesn't get to be an excuse for anyone who claims to be a Christian because Christ showed through His own conduct how they're supposed to handle being the target of lawless behavior. If Christ managed to overcome the temptation to retaliate, there's no reason why anyone else who has the Holy Spirit can't do the same thing.

 

[DPMartin]

It is an absolute lie when you say Christ didn't forgive the people who were mocking Him:

"When they hurled their insults at him(Christ), he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly." - 1 Pet. 2:23

You're overlooking what is obvious about the kind of attitude Christ displayed in that moment. He asked His Father to forgive those people because Christ didn't want to be presumptuous enough to think He was as willing to shrug it off. The fact that Christ said "they don't know what they're doing" in and of itself says He chalked it up as them doing it out of ignorance.

Now here's why the Bible says you couldn't be more wrong when you say it's perfectly fine to just express your feelings with no restraints:

"Whoever has no rule over his own spirit is like a city broken down, without walls." - Pro. 25:28

"If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one's religion is useless." -Jas. 1:26

And the tongue is a flame of fire. It is a whole world of wickedness, corrupting your entire body. It can set your whole life on fire, for it is set on fire by hell itself." - Jas. 3:6

"I said to myself, “I will watch what I do and not sin in what I say. I will hold my tongue when the ungodly are around me.” - Psa. 39:1

“But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment." - Matt. 12:36

“But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise."- Luk. 6:27-28, 31

Social media is a toxic hotbed because it is full of carnal-minded people who express their feelings with little or no regard for other people. Human limitations doesn't get to be an excuse for anyone who claims to be a Christian because Christ showed through His own conduct how they're supposed to handle being the target of lawless behavior. If Christ managed to overcome the temptation to retaliate, there's no reason why anyone else who has the Holy Spirit can't do the same thing.

ok hot shot if you can do the same as Jesus let me know when people are diving at your feet to be healed or be released from some demon and the like, ok.

you really don't get it, and Jesus never said to those who were hanging Him "i forgive you" or anything of that effect did He now? you are putting words in to Jesus mouth that aren't there. you have no proof He forgave directly, there is documentation that He asked His Father to forgive them, and that's were i stand on that, what the testimony of the writer said.

you speak like you're the consummate Christian, sorry, Jesus is the consummate Christian, and He when hanging on the cross asked His Father to forgive them when He didn't say He forgave them. you seem to be ignorant that God is the one who does that which one is not able to do ones self, and Jesus always said He did nothing of Himself, hence Jesus' example to those who are children of God. asking the Father to do what one is not able, is the correct way, of which you seem by your posting you know nothing about. only your version of speculative inexperience with such burdens on the heart.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I agree. I remember that Mormons have this. I looked it up on google:

Blood atonement is a disputed doctrine in the history of Mormonism, under which the atonement of Jesus does not redeem an eternal sin. To atone for an eternal sin, the sinner should be killed in a way that allows his blood to be shed upon the ground as a sacrificial offering, so he does not become a son of perdition.

For the record “disputed” is not an accurate word. Rather, This idea has been blatently shot down as false.

 

[Truman]

In the way that I forgive, I will be forgiven.
If I've forgiven someone who hated me, I will love them.
If I've forgiven someone who cursed me, I will bless them.
If I've forgiven someone who mistreated me, I will pray for them.
If I've forgiven someone who stole from me, I will give to them.
Forgiveness is a decision. Feelings will follow, sooner or later.
My decision to forgive is manifest by my actions.
This is my understanding of forgiveness.

 

[Wrangler]

You have the answer to your question==Matthew 6:14-15
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Outstanding post!

Those who like to play semantic games and avoid general truths, often set a standard designed to fail the general truth. EXAMPLE: The above verse does not say “all” sins have to be forgiven.

While true, it is irrelevant as that is what the verse means.

 

[quietthinker]

In the way that I forgive, I will be forgiven.
If I've forgiven someone who hated me, I will love them.
If I've forgiven someone who cursed me, I will bless them.
If I've forgiven someone who mistreated me, I will pray for them.
If I've forgiven someone who stole from me, I will give to them.
Forgiveness is a decision. Feelings will follow, sooner or later.
My decision to forgive is manifest by my actions.
This is my understanding of forgiveness.

In all things Jesus is preeminent. We do not influence God to forgive us because we forgive...it is the other way around....we forgive because we have been forgiven. Turning the order around is the objective of the devil and it sets precedents which result in focus on self.

 

[Josh27]

In all things Jesus is preeminent. We do not influence God to forgive us because we forgive...it is the other way around....we forgive because we have been forgiven. Turning the order around is the objective of the devil and it sets precedents which result in focus on self.

In response to this admonition and command from Christ, how about if you give us an example of how you personally have turned the other cheek within the last, say, two months.

Regards.

 

[Brakelite]

Matthew 6:14-15
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

But what about the other type of sins? What about wicked willful sins of lawlessness? Must we forgive the monster who murdered your child, or your family on purpose? Or only if they repent and ask? Are we commanded to do more than God does Himself? Or on the same level as God does?

God didn't wait for repentance before dying and forgiving. Not more than God. Same as God.