Forgiveness

[aspen]

I am very interested in Forgiveness. I believe it is the highest example of love and the meaning of life - not to mention God's incredible, merciful, and elegant response to the problem of pain. Learning to forgive another person and yourself in the face of injustice is perfectly sublime.

A story of forgiveness always come to my mind when I contemplate this topic - I am sure most people remember it - when the Amish community in PA choose to be a witness to the world by forgiving one of their own people for a mass shooting in one of their towns. I get chills thinking about it - God made it possible - His mercy made it possible to sew up the chaism of pain caused by the Fall through a monumental action - the highest example of charity - forgiveness. Because Jesus forgives us, we now know how to forgive others, in the face of a world that is terribly unjust.

I would love to hear any stories of forgiveness that you would like to share.

How can we learn to forgive radically?

 

[bbyrd009]

man, that is really difficult for me in practice. In theory it doesn't sound so hard--recognize that the offender is just acting out of ignorance, and treat them as you would a younger sibling that you love; but in practice, the willfullness of the offender usually causes me to forget myself in the moment, when it counts.

i have recently been put in the path of some people that i perceived almost immediately were going to try to take advantage of me. Not a deluge, but one at a time, i noticed. I didn't do so well on the first couple, but by the third one i started getting the hint maybe, and i let it play out their way without...interfering? Imposing my preferences, not to get manipulated? Something like that. Anyway, it felt at the time like i was enabling them, and i'm still not great at not discussing it with others, but at least i have learned that the quickest way to rid yourself of one of these types is to loan them $10 (or whatever) and then just forget about it.

i use $ there as an analogy, i rarely have $10 lol, don't really use money too much, but you get me prolly. I am now getting what i can only call like "warnings" when i am about to raise the subject among mutual peers, and getting better about not doing that, even though stopping in the middle of a sentence has got me some funny looks, but i detect that even these are a function of forgiveness, by which i mean the peers seem to recognize on some level why i stopped the sentence, some even bring the subject up again a few minutes later, the ones who maybe want me to back-bite the guy so that they have more gossip (was my take), which is a bit more difficult for me to resist as i am mostly faking the forgiveness still, on some level. More because of the personal effrontery or whatever than the "$10," which i really don't care about.

so really i guess i'm saying that i don't know much about forgiveness lol. The payoff is hard to quantify, because you have been wronged. But it is there. Mostly in the way people perceive you i guess, although i see peers' minds being subtly changed too, which imo is the point. But i am def still "suffering" Paul's passage about doing what i don't want, and not doing what i want lol.

19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.

even if trying to get one's $10 back and kvetching about the person not giving it back would not be considered evil to most people i guess; it is to me.

 

[Helen]

I am very interested in Forgiveness. I believe it is the highest example of love and the meaning of life - not to mention God's incredible, merciful, and elegant response to the problem of pain. Learning to forgive another person and yourself in the face of injustice is perfectly sublime.

A story of forgiveness always come to my mind when I contemplate this topic - I am sure most people remember it - when the Amish community in PA choose to be a witness to the world by forgiving one of their own people for a mass shooting in one of their towns. I get chills thinking about it - God made it possible - His mercy made it possible to sew up the chaism of pain caused by the Fall through a monumental action - the highest example of charity - forgiveness. Because Jesus forgives us, we now know how to forgive others, in the face of a world that is terribly unjust.

I would love to hear any stories of forgiveness that you would like to share.

How can we learn to forgive radically?

We all know the forgiveness scriptures , so no need to repeat them here.
I haven't read bbyrd009 post yet...so I hope I'm not repeating what he has said.
For myself....forgiveness was, and came hard. My childhood personality was somewhat dark. Yet when God got a hold of me He started showing me the great benefits in forgiveness.
I used to think the God wanted us to forgive, for the other person's sake.
The revelation hit me that it is for our own sake!!
Unforgiveness is a killer. I once heard someone say.."Unforgivness is like drinking poison , but expecting the other person to drop dead."
Also I read in The Readers Digest ( of all places) about a man who could not forgive. He said that no matter how many beautiful holidays he took, or places he visited "the man he hated" was always right there with him. If he went to an expensive restaurant..there was the other man too..he said I carried this man around all year. One night he sat and imagined himself taking his unforgiveness into a field, digging a big hole burying it deep, and jumping on the earth to flatten it...he saw himself walking out of that feild happy and free! And that wasn't a " spiritual story".
For myself I had to fight for it. Too long a story to tell the "why" but a couple I had strongly disagreed with because they showed no mercy or love, just old law rules and regulations...in their treatment of other people....( in a church we shared the leadership in) it divided us, and I knew that I couldn't stand them and never wanted to see them again...we left them to it. It ended badly and damaged the church.
I knew this was wrong...they too were blood bought children of God..they just seem to have no understanding of grace ,glimpse of the Father heart of God or any softness toward God's people they were supposed to be shepherding.
Morning after morning I hit my knees and through gritted teeth I said "Lord You tell us to - "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you."
Day after day I would tell the Lord, "I just can't do it."
Then after about a week I heard Him reply- "Finally, you have got the message..I agree, you can't,..... but I can!!"
Then again with gritted teeth for a few days, I would say these peoples names aloud and pray abundant blessing upon them..then finally as I did this (through the flesh, with no heart) I became overwhelmed with love for them, ( all God) I saw how much they were missing in their legalistic, harsh, demanding, God, that they were "showing" to the people.
I started crying for them and their lack of spiritual vision. About six months later we went to a conference, where their group were the hosts.....and God had made sure that we were lodged in their house!!
We hugged, cried, talked over old times.
I told them what tyrants they were ...he slapped his knee and laughed ...yes, God had been dealing with them, just as He had been dealing with my hard, unforgiving (self righteous) heart! We became the friends that we could never have been before. God at work...we just have to be willing to let him. Forgiveness is a healing to both parties...it sets God free to work!

Sorry, I have probably just 'rabbited on' about something that is nothing to do with what you were thinking or wanting in response. I agree, I do often tend to 'rabbit trail'!!

 

[Helen]

OH whoops..sorry that was such a long post...I don't like long post at all.

 

[Helen]

i have recently been put in the path of some people that i perceived almost immediately were going to try to take advantage of me.

Good post bbyrd009 ...agree, God does not help us with 'warm fuzzy feelings!' As the saying goes..forgotten the scripture reference LOL "Fake it until you make it."
Interesting , because that is what I had to do too...exercise the will and bring it under.. ( as in the looooog post above) and I do have a real scripture for that now..2 Cor 8:12 "For if there first be a willing mind it is accepted according to what a man has and not according to what he has not." ..
We have to make up our mind, we step forward in faith and with no warm feelings..and then GOD does His thing!!
*MY problem was waiting to feel like I was ready to forgive them!
We cannot wait for feelings..God won't give them to us before hand.
............H

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I am not sure if this fits with OP but isn't forgiveness: to give love to someone undeserving, someone that hasn't asked for love but rather flatout rejected it through hurtful words or actions? I haven't witnessed grand miracles but I have witnessed the miracle of love. A couple years ago I had one major question for God. All I saw around me was sickness. I had been swept up in the healing movement that says God promises us physical healing today...if we will only have faith. For a year I kept asking God...do You want everyone healed? Today. Right now? Do you want me to walk up to complete strangers and lay my hands on them with boldness?

HE finally gave an answer. He delivered it right to my door. I wasn't familiar at the time with 1 Corinthians 13:
1 Corinthians 13:1-3 KJV
[1] Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. [2] And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. [3] And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor , and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

...the answer to all my questions concerning healing was there. Love.

Love is the healing. Love begins with forgiveness and offering love when it is not deserved. Since that day I have seen love do miraculous things. LOve can heal. Love can diffuse an evil atomosphe. Find the most bitter and hateful speaking person you can find and embrace them with genuine undeserved love and you will see evil clash with good...evil holds no power when it comes up against love. Love is light to darkness. Love is what this world is short on. I have seen it. Evil flee in the presence of love. I have seen a stone cold person which seemed to not contain a heart brought to their knees in an anguish sounding groan by a simple hug they never expected.

2 Corinthians 12:15 KJV
[15] And I will very gladly spend and be spent for you; though the more abundantly I love you, the less I be loved.

That is to forgive radically...to give undeserved love.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, GREAT

I am not sure if this fits with OP but isn't forgiveness: to give love to someone undeserving,

Unforgiveness is a killer. I once heard someone say.."Unforgivness is like drinking poison , but expecting the other person to drop dead."

 

[aspen]

in the case of Job, God blessed his life in the aftermath of tragedy with abundance. For humanity, God provides the gift of forgiveness, which we would have never experienced before the Fall.

 

[DPMartin]

I am very interested in Forgiveness. I believe it is the highest example of love and the meaning of life - not to mention God's incredible, merciful, and elegant response to the problem of pain. Learning to forgive another person and yourself in the face of injustice is perfectly sublime.

A story of forgiveness always come to my mind when I contemplate this topic - I am sure most people remember it - when the Amish community in PA choose to be a witness to the world by forgiving one of their own people for a mass shooting in one of their towns. I get chills thinking about it - God made it possible - His mercy made it possible to sew up the chaism of pain caused by the Fall through a monumental action - the highest example of charity - forgiveness. Because Jesus forgives us, we now know how to forgive others, in the face of a world that is terribly unjust.

I would love to hear any stories of forgiveness that you would like to share.

How can we learn to forgive radically?

na, its a matter of what is valued in a agreement. in a contest for what is valued there is no forgiveness necessary to make things a-right if you will. if I'm a line backer and I slam the QB into the ground its agreed if you have the ball it is expected to have the linebacker stop you by violent means. if it wasn't a part of the agreement of the contest for what is valued then an offence has been committed. of which forgiveness would have to be an option in the agreement for the offender to not suffer punishment. if forgiveness isn't a part of the agreement then what is forgiveness for?

ask a hard core thief if he cares whether you forgive him or not, he doesn't hare in what you agree is good for him or you.

but if one is bound to the agreement between the Almighty and one's self then seeking the Lord for Mercy for a offender is almost a requirement in the agreement. because what is to be valued is the fulfillment one's agreement with and in the Lord because that is what He values with you.


that love for no reason, in warm and fussy stories, is foolish thinking. God's not stupid and doesn't do things for no reason or for things of no value.

 

[bbyrd009]

"Who told you that you were naked? Here, have some coats then."

 

[bbyrd009]

funny to me how infants start copying so much of their parents, but clothing is not something you see a baby running to emulate, huh. There's a point in there somewhere about "reason" and forgiveness lol, i'll let you know when i get it

 

[aspen]

na, its a matter of what is valued in a agreement. in a contest for what is valued there is no forgiveness necessary to make things a-right if you will. if I'm a line backer and I slam the QB into the ground its agreed if you have the ball it is expected to have the linebacker stop you by violent means. if it wasn't a part of the agreement of the contest for what is valued then an offence has been committed. of which forgiveness would have to be an option in the agreement for the offender to not suffer punishment. if forgiveness isn't a part of the agreement then what is forgiveness for?

ask a hard core thief if he cares whether you forgive him or not, he doesn't hare in what you agree is good for him or you.

but if one is bound to the agreement between the Almighty and one's self then seeking the Lord for Mercy for a offender is almost a requirement in the agreement. because what is to be valued is the fulfillment one's agreement with and in the Lord because that is what He values with you.


that love for no reason, in warm and fussy stories, is foolish thinking. God's not stupid and doesn't do things for no reason or for things of no value.

Forgiveness frees people from bitterness and resentment

 

[aspen]

Clothing in the Garden is our ego

 

[DPMartin]

Forgiveness frees people from bitterness and resentment

that's delusional

forgiveness is the result of letting go of what was once valued, could have been owed, could have been perceived as entitled.


I have met people who blamed God because He allowed their wife to die some curl illness unto death. and that is because what they valued and see as entitled.

a debit is forgiven as a result of a change in the law. no bitterness or resentment there, is there? but its forgiveness. to let go of what is valued because one values something else more in place of, or no longer values what was once owed.

even in one of the Lord's parables if my memory serves, the servant that was forgiven that didn't forgive what he was owed, didn't value the Lord's approval and ways as much as he valued what he was owed. he didn't give what he received.

 

[DPMartin]

Clothing in the Garden is our ego

clothing in the garden that the Lord clothed A&E with, was the skins of the innocent, (the first life sacrificed for another) to cover shame and guilt, you should stick to what you know aspen, I don't know what that is, but it isn't the Lord Jesus Christ by the posting you post.

 

[aspen]

And what do our egos do, DP?

Oh yeah! They cover our shame and guilt......

 

[bbyrd009]

Clothing in the Garden is our ego

we even observe them on display or whatever, ya, the connection has been made before, long time ago. It's even built into our lexicon now, "you need to get a thicker skin" etc

 

[aspen]

we even observe them on display or whatever, ya, the connection has been made before, long time ago. It's even built into our lexicon now, "you need to get a thicker skin" etc

Nah, it's just delusional.....


Haha

 

[bbyrd009]

Forgiveness frees people from bitterness and resentment

that's delusional

say what

 

[Truth]

I am very interested in Forgiveness. I believe it is the highest example of love and the meaning of life - not to mention God's incredible, merciful, and elegant response to the problem of pain. Learning to forgive another person and yourself in the face of injustice is perfectly sublime.

A story of forgiveness always come to my mind when I contemplate this topic - I am sure most people remember it - when the Amish community in PA choose to be a witness to the world by forgiving one of their own people for a mass shooting in one of their towns. I get chills thinking about it - God made it possible - His mercy made it possible to sew up the chaism of pain caused by the Fall through a monumental action - the highest example of charity - forgiveness. Because Jesus forgives us, we now know how to forgive others, in the face of a world that is terribly unjust.

I would love to hear any stories of forgiveness that you would like to share.

How can we learn to forgive radically?

If your are offended, Hurt, or physically injured by some one, the most profitable action is to forgive!! to carry Hate and or Anger around within yourself, only Hurts You. Trust Me I held hatred for God for many years!!! until He pulled Me Into His Arms, Healed Me, and By The Way FORGAVE ME!!!!!! sometimes it takes a while to forgive others, but the results are always the Same. by the Name of our Savior and to Our Heavenly Father be the Glory, to instill in us this ability, called GRACE.