Four Times People Physically Tried To Kill JESUS, But He Would Not Let Them Until He Decided When = Luke 4;24-31

[Miz KJV Only]

Four Times People Physically Tried To Kill JESUS, But He Would Not Let Them Until He Decided When = Luke 4;24-31




Luke 4;24-31

And He said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country. But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land; But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow. And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian. And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, And rose up, and thrust Him out of the city, and led Him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast Him down headlong. But He passing through the midst of them went His way, And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.


John 8:54-59

Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that He is your God: Yet ye have not known Him; but I know Him: and if I should say, I know Him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know Him, and keep His saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto Him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at Him: but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.


John 10:27-33

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them Eternal Life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered Him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.


John 10:37-42

If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in Him. Therefore they sought again to take Him: but He escaped out of their hand, And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there He abode. And many resorted unto Him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true. And many believed on Him there.



AMEN

 

[360watt]

Four Times People Physically Tried To Kill JESUS, But He Would Not Let Them Until He Decided When = Luke 4;24-31




Luke 4;24-31

And He said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country. But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land; But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow. And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian. And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, And rose up, and thrust Him out of the city, and led Him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast Him down headlong. But He passing through the midst of them went His way, And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.


John 8:54-59

Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that He is your God: Yet ye have not known Him; but I know Him: and if I should say, I know Him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know Him, and keep His saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto Him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at Him: but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.


John 10:27-33

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them Eternal Life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered Him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.


John 10:37-42

If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in Him. Therefore they sought again to take Him: but He escaped out of their hand, And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there He abode. And many resorted unto Him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true. And many believed on Him there.



AMEN

Yes, Jesus is all powerful, all knowing etc..

He could have called down a legion of angels to stop the cruficixion happening and overtake the Roman empire etc..

But all must be fulfilled according to prophecy, by God's Will. So Jesus willingly offered Himself as a sacrifice for all.

 

[Pierac]

Yes, Jesus is all powerful, all knowing etc..

He could have called down a legion of angels to stop the cruficixion happening and overtake the Roman empire etc..

But all must be fulfilled according to prophecy, by God's Will. So Jesus willingly offered Himself as a sacrifice for all.

Ok don't be So Blind!!!

Jesus was not all Knowing...

Luk 2:40 The Child continued to grow and become strong, increasing in wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him.

Mat 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

Luk 8:45 And Jesus said, "Who is the one who touched Me?" And while they were all denying it, Peter said, "Master, the people are crowding and pressing in on You."

Really.... Jesus had to ask???

Mat 26:39 And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will."

Mat 26:42 He went away again a second time and prayed, saying, "My Father, if this cannot pass away unless I drink it, Your will be done."

Jesus never wanted to die... silly child! Yet... He obeyed his God to the end!!! And God raised him from the dead...

Act 2:24 "But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.

Act 3:26 "For you first, God raised up His Servant (yea... Servant... not co-equal) and sent Him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways."

Act 10:40 "God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,

So Who raised Jesus from the dead???

Act 13:30 "But God raised Him from the dead;

Who gave Jesus his Revelation???

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him

What God???

Let me show you... what you will not hear in your Chruch.... The very first message from the beginning at Pentecost

NASB Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--


Just like Jesus told you...

Joh 8:40 "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.

You have much to Learn...
Joh 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

And
AND, conj.

And is a conjunction, connective or conjoining word. It signifies that a word or part of a sentence is to be added to what precedes. Thus, give me an apple and an orange; that is, give me an apple, add or give in addition to that, an orange. John and Peter and James rode to New York, that is, John rode to New York; add or further, Peter rode to New York; add James rode to New York.

Context is King!!!

 

[360watt]

Ok don't be So Blind!!!

Jesus was not all Knowing...

Luk 2:40 The Child continued to grow and become strong, increasing in wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him.

Mat 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

Luk 8:45 And Jesus said, "Who is the one who touched Me?" And while they were all denying it, Peter said, "Master, the people are crowding and pressing in on You."

Really.... Jesus had to ask???

Mat 26:39 And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will."

Mat 26:42 He went away again a second time and prayed, saying, "My Father, if this cannot pass away unless I drink it, Your will be done."

Jesus never wanted to die... silly child! Yet... He obeyed his God to the end!!! And God raised him from the dead...

Act 2:24 "But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.

Act 3:26 "For you first, God raised up His Servant (yea... Servant... not co-equal) and sent Him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways."

Act 10:40 "God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,

So Who raised Jesus from the dead???

Act 13:30 "But God raised Him from the dead;

Who gave Jesus his Revelation???

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him

What God???

Let me show you... what you will not hear in your Chruch.... The very first message from the beginning at Pentecost

NASB Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--


Just like Jesus told you...

Joh 8:40 "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.

You have much to Learn...
Joh 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

And
AND, conj.

And is a conjunction, connective or conjoining word. It signifies that a word or part of a sentence is to be added to what precedes. Thus, give me an apple and an orange; that is, give me an apple, add or give in addition to that, an orange. John and Peter and James rode to New York, that is, John rode to New York; add or further, Peter rode to New York; add James rode to New York.

Context is King!!!

Yes context is king, I agree.

Jesus as God was doing something like 'self limiting'.

So He was voluntarily limiting Himself. It is an incredible thing. But not unscriptural.

But the other thing is the scripture about Jesus asking who touched Him.. what is the context around that?

Because the other thing about it ...is the person who touched Him was believing He had the power of God.

So yes further discussion needed

 

[Pierac]

Yes context is king, I agree.

Jesus as God was doing something like 'self limiting'.

So He was voluntarily limiting Himself. It is an incredible thing. But not unscriptural.

But the other thing is the scripture about Jesus asking who touched Him.. what is the context around that?

Because the other thing about it ...is the person who touched Him was believing He had the power of God.

So yes further discussion needed

Yea.... Show me what scripture that show Us.... Jesus was self limiting.... As if Growing in wisdom is some how not unlimited... It's the opposite!!!

Really.... Just read the first 9 words of Rev 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him...

Who Gave Him???

Your not paying attention....

Let me show you... what you will not hear in your Chruch.... The very first message from the beginning at Pentecost

NASB Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--

Paul

 

[360watt]

Yea.... Show me what scripture that show Us.... Jesus was self limiting.... As if Growing in wisdom is some how not unlimited... It's the opposite!!!

Really.... Just read the first 9 words of Rev 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him...

Who Gave Him???

Your not paying attention....

Let me show you... what you will not hear in your Chruch.... The very first message from the beginning at Pentecost

NASB Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--

Paul

All the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him bodily.

In responding to the Pharisees.. Jesus said when asked if He were the Son of God.. used the same term that God spoke to Moses at the burning bush... I AM.

These aren't things you associate with someone who is just a man or lesser than the Father.

'The Father is greater than I'... After Jesus says this.. He ascends to be one with the Father. This is the Father in a greater place.. not the Father as a greater being.

The words of Revelation are from Jesus .. but they are also the words of the Holy Spirit.. and Jesus is given alpha and omega terms that you associate with the Father.

So... Since Jesus is equal to the Father and Holy Spirit as three in one God. ...

And He was on earth as a man...

Then He was self limiting.

 

[Pierac]

All the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him bodily.

In responding to the Pharisees.. Jesus said when asked if He were the Son of God.. used the same term that God spoke to Moses at the burning bush... I AM.

These aren't things you associate with someone who is just a man or lesser than the Father.

'The Father is greater than I'... After Jesus says this.. He ascends to be one with the Father. This is the Father in a greater place.. not the Father as a greater being.

The words of Revelation are from Jesus .. but they are also the words of the Holy Spirit.. and Jesus is given alpha and omega terms that you associate with the Father.

So... Since Jesus is equal to the Father and Holy Spirit as three in one God. ...

And He was on earth as a man...

Then He was self limiting.

Yet Paul still refers to Jesus as a man... Many , many years after God raised Him from the dead....

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Webster 1828 Dictionary....
And
AND, conj.

And is a conjunction, connective or conjoining word. It signifies that a word or part of a sentence is to be added to what precedes. Thus, give me an apple and an orange; that is, give me an apple, add or give in addition to that, an orange. John and Peter and James rode to New York, that is, John rode to New York; add or further, Peter rode to New York; add James rode to New York.

Paul is calling the Risen Jesus... A Man!!!

Pay attention
Many prophecies indicated that the Coming One would arise from the "seed," the stock of humanity, in a particular from Abrahamic and Davidic stock. The Messiah would be from the biological chain within the human family, specifically of Jewish pedigree: "The Lord your God will rise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your own countrymen [literally, brothers]; you shall listen to him" (Deut.18:15). In this passage, Moses predicts that the coming Messiah would be a person "like me," raised up from "among" the people of Israel, and that God would not speak to the people directly, because they were afraid that if God spoke without a mediator they would die (V16). The coming "prophet" would be a man of whom it is said that God would "put his word in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. And it shall come about whoever will not listen to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him” (v. 18-19). To say that the Messiah is God Himself is to contradict the whole point of this prophecy. For it announces that the ultimate spokesman for God is expressly not God but a human being. The New Testament says that Jesus is the one who fulfilled this prophecy (Acts 3:22; 7:37). Understandably, no Jew who believe theses Scriptures ever imagined that the baby born in Bethlehem was going to be Jehovah himself come as a human baby.

In addition, Jehovah God says clearly that he is not a man (Numbers 23:19; Job 9:32). The converse is therefore true: if a person is a man, then he can not be God.

On the authority of Jesus himself we know that the categories of "flesh" and "spirit" are never to be confused or intermingled, though the course of God's Spirit can impact our world. Jesus said, "That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit" (John 3:6). And "God is Spirit." The doctrine of the incarnation confuses these categories. What God has separated man has joined together! One of the charges that the apostle Paul levels at simple man is that we have "exchange the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man" (Romans 1:23). Has it ever dawned on us as we sit in church listening to how the glorious Creator made Himself into a man that we could be guilty of this very same thing? The doctrine of the incarnation has reduced the incorruptible God to our own corruptible image. We are made in God's image, not the other way around. It would be more appropriate to put this contrast in starker terms. The defining characteristic of the Creator God is his absolute holiness. God is utterly different from and so utterly transcendent over His creation that any confusion is forbidden!

To be a Christian means you know that our Lord Jesus is the diameter, the purpose of the universe. His kingdom is coming! This is God's purpose and it will not be frustrated. Another verse saying the same thing is Hebrews 1:2. It says God has “appointed” His son to be
the “heir of all things” and that it was “through him that he made the world'(s). Here our translations are not quite accurate, what the author wrote was not that through Jesus God made the world(s) but ages. God planned to complete His purpose for all creation through the agency of his son Jesus. The preposition that is used in relation to Jesus and the world, or the ages, is “through” (Greek dia from which you will see comes our English word diameter).

Dia is the “preposition of attendant circumstances" and signifies instrumental agency. Put simply, this means that dia denotes the means by which an action is accomplished. And Scripture tells us that God the originator is bringing His purpose, His logos to fulfillment through Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Agent, the Mediator of God's master plan. Jesus is always seen as secondary, or subordinate to the Father. There are occasional exceptions to this general use of the preposition dia. Sometimes blessings are said to come to us through God (e.g. 1 Cor 1:9; Heb.2: 10). But usually there is a clear distinction made between God’s initiating activity and the means through which God brings that activity to pass. The prepositions used of God's action are hypo and ek which point to primary causation or origin. Let's cement this idea in our minds by looking at one or two verses that highlight the difference: “yet for us there is but one God, the father, from [ek, ‘out from’ ] whom are all things, and we exist for [ eis, ‘to’ ] Him; and one lord, Jesus Christ, through [dia] him” (1Cor.8:6).

Prepositions are the signposts that point out the direction of a passage. Ek indicates something coming out from its source or origin, and indicates motion from the interior. In other words, all things came out from the loving heart of God, or God's “interior”, so to speak.

This agrees with Genesis 1:1 which says, “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth”. Both verses say that the source of “all things” is the one true God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth and the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ. In contradistinction to this "one God and Father" out of Whom all things originate, the "one Lord, Jesus Messiah” is giving the preposition dia which means "through." In other words, Jesus is God's agent through whom God accomplishes His plan for our lives. This is a consistent pattern all the way through the N.T. God the Father is the source, the origin of all blessings, and Jesus His Son brings those blessings of salvation to us:

"Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ" (2 Cor.5:18).

"God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ… has blessed us… in Christ. He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to himself” (Eph.1:3-5).

"For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess.5:9).

"God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus” (Rom. 2:16).

"For God… has saved us, and called us... according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity" (2 Tim 1:9).

"Blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has caused us to be born-again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3).

"To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen" (Jude 25).

"Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which god performed through him in your midst" (Acts 2:22).

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (like Acts 2:22 states above...)

Paul tell us in 1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through (dia) whom we exist.

Always God the Father is the source and origin of all works, deeds and salvation which come to us through the mediatorship of his son. From Him comes all to us through our Lord Jesus Christ so that to God the Father made all the praise be directed. The Father is the sole origin and Creator of "all things." In contrast, Jesus is the Father's commissioned Lord Messiah through whom God's plan for the world is coming to completion. The whole Bible from cover to cover categorically states that God created the universe and all the ages with Jesus Christ at the center of his eternal purpose. Jesus is the diameter running all the way through.

Hope this helps...
Paul

 

[360watt]

Yet Paul still refers to Jesus as a man... Many , many years after God raised Him from the dead....

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Webster 1828 Dictionary....
And
AND, conj.

And is a conjunction, connective or conjoining word. It signifies that a word or part of a sentence is to be added to what precedes. Thus, give me an apple and an orange; that is, give me an apple, add or give in addition to that, an orange. John and Peter and James rode to New York, that is, John rode to New York; add or further, Peter rode to New York; add James rode to New York.

Paul is calling the Risen Jesus... A Man!!!

Pay attention
Many prophecies indicated that the Coming One would arise from the "seed," the stock of humanity, in a particular from Abrahamic and Davidic stock. The Messiah would be from the biological chain within the human family, specifically of Jewish pedigree: "The Lord your God will rise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your own countrymen [literally, brothers]; you shall listen to him" (Deut.18:15). In this passage, Moses predicts that the coming Messiah would be a person "like me," raised up from "among" the people of Israel, and that God would not speak to the people directly, because they were afraid that if God spoke without a mediator they would die (V16). The coming "prophet" would be a man of whom it is said that God would "put his word in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. And it shall come about whoever will not listen to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him” (v. 18-19). To say that the Messiah is God Himself is to contradict the whole point of this prophecy. For it announces that the ultimate spokesman for God is expressly not God but a human being. The New Testament says that Jesus is the one who fulfilled this prophecy (Acts 3:22; 7:37). Understandably, no Jew who believe theses Scriptures ever imagined that the baby born in Bethlehem was going to be Jehovah himself come as a human baby.

In addition, Jehovah God says clearly that he is not a man (Numbers 23:19; Job 9:32). The converse is therefore true: if a person is a man, then he can not be God.

On the authority of Jesus himself we know that the categories of "flesh" and "spirit" are never to be confused or intermingled, though the course of God's Spirit can impact our world. Jesus said, "That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit" (John 3:6). And "God is Spirit." The doctrine of the incarnation confuses these categories. What God has separated man has joined together! One of the charges that the apostle Paul levels at simple man is that we have "exchange the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man" (Romans 1:23). Has it ever dawned on us as we sit in church listening to how the glorious Creator made Himself into a man that we could be guilty of this very same thing? The doctrine of the incarnation has reduced the incorruptible God to our own corruptible image. We are made in God's image, not the other way around. It would be more appropriate to put this contrast in starker terms. The defining characteristic of the Creator God is his absolute holiness. God is utterly different from and so utterly transcendent over His creation that any confusion is forbidden!

To be a Christian means you know that our Lord Jesus is the diameter, the purpose of the universe. His kingdom is coming! This is God's purpose and it will not be frustrated. Another verse saying the same thing is Hebrews 1:2. It says God has “appointed” His son to be
the “heir of all things” and that it was “through him that he made the world'(s). Here our translations are not quite accurate, what the author wrote was not that through Jesus God made the world(s) but ages. God planned to complete His purpose for all creation through the agency of his son Jesus. The preposition that is used in relation to Jesus and the world, or the ages, is “through” (Greek dia from which you will see comes our English word diameter).

Dia is the “preposition of attendant circumstances" and signifies instrumental agency. Put simply, this means that dia denotes the means by which an action is accomplished. And Scripture tells us that God the originator is bringing His purpose, His logos to fulfillment through Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Agent, the Mediator of God's master plan. Jesus is always seen as secondary, or subordinate to the Father. There are occasional exceptions to this general use of the preposition dia. Sometimes blessings are said to come to us through God (e.g. 1 Cor 1:9; Heb.2: 10). But usually there is a clear distinction made between God’s initiating activity and the means through which God brings that activity to pass. The prepositions used of God's action are hypo and ek which point to primary causation or origin. Let's cement this idea in our minds by looking at one or two verses that highlight the difference: “yet for us there is but one God, the father, from [ek, ‘out from’ ] whom are all things, and we exist for [ eis, ‘to’ ] Him; and one lord, Jesus Christ, through [dia] him” (1Cor.8:6).

Prepositions are the signposts that point out the direction of a passage. Ek indicates something coming out from its source or origin, and indicates motion from the interior. In other words, all things came out from the loving heart of God, or God's “interior”, so to speak.

This agrees with Genesis 1:1 which says, “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth”. Both verses say that the source of “all things” is the one true God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth and the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ. In contradistinction to this "one God and Father" out of Whom all things originate, the "one Lord, Jesus Messiah” is giving the preposition dia which means "through." In other words, Jesus is God's agent through whom God accomplishes His plan for our lives. This is a consistent pattern all the way through the N.T. God the Father is the source, the origin of all blessings, and Jesus His Son brings those blessings of salvation to us:

"Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ" (2 Cor.5:18).

"God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ… has blessed us… in Christ. He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to himself” (Eph.1:3-5).

"For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess.5:9).

"God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus” (Rom. 2:16).

"For God… has saved us, and called us... according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity" (2 Tim 1:9).

"Blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has caused us to be born-again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3).

"To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen" (Jude 25).

"Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which god performed through him in your midst" (Acts 2:22).

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (like Acts 2:22 states above...)

Paul tell us in 1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through (dia) whom we exist.

Always God the Father is the source and origin of all works, deeds and salvation which come to us through the mediatorship of his son. From Him comes all to us through our Lord Jesus Christ so that to God the Father made all the praise be directed. The Father is the sole origin and Creator of "all things." In contrast, Jesus is the Father's commissioned Lord Messiah through whom God's plan for the world is coming to completion. The whole Bible from cover to cover categorically states that God created the universe and all the ages with Jesus Christ at the center of his eternal purpose. Jesus is the diameter running all the way through.

Hope this helps...
Paul

God not being a man ...

This passage in its context has nothing to do with whether God can be a man or not.

It's to do with God's status as superior to frail humans. It's a passage that isn't about excluding God from becoming man.

Aside from this .. Jesus is called Emmanuel.. which means 'God with us'

Jesus also forgave sin of those who had not directly offended Him. Only God can do that.

Jesus also accepted worship..not just like a servant to a king... But from the kings themselves.

Look..it goes on and on. Scripture is clear that Jesus is equal to the Father with the Holy Spirit as one God. One being in three expressions/persona.

So Paul ..no that does not help..and I keep wondering why a lot of Christian forums allow people to diminish Jesus' deity.

 

[Pierac]

God not being a man ...

This passage in its context has nothing to do with whether God can be a man or not.

It's to do with God's status as superior to frail humans. It's a passage that isn't about excluding God from becoming man.

Aside from this .. Jesus is called Emmanuel.. which means 'God with us'

Jesus also forgave sin of those who had not directly offended Him. Only God can do that.

Jesus also accepted worship..not just like a servant to a king... But from the kings themselves.

Look..it goes on and on. Scripture is clear that Jesus is equal to the Father with the Holy Spirit as one God. One being in three expressions/persona.

So Paul ..no that does not help..and I keep wondering why a lot of Christian forums allow people to diminish Jesus' deity.

So.... You think know God.... Joh 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Good then.... let's talk about the Holy Spirit .....

Then.... We can move on to Jesus.....

Now as to the Spirit of God....

Show me the Spirit of God..... Because I can show you


Man Up... 360Watt:

 

[Pierac]

God not being a man ...

This passage in its context has nothing to do with whether God can be a man or not.

It's to do with God's status as superior to frail humans. It's a passage that isn't about excluding God from becoming man.

Aside from this .. Jesus is called Emmanuel.. which means 'God with us'

Jesus also forgave sin of those who had not directly offended Him. Only God can do that.

Jesus also accepted worship..not just like a servant to a king... But from the kings themselves.

Look..it goes on and on. Scripture is clear that Jesus is equal to the Father with the Holy Spirit as one God. One being in three expressions/persona.

So Paul ..no that does not help..and I keep wondering why a lot of Christian forums allow people to diminish Jesus' deity.

You failed to read my post .....

On the authority of Jesus himself we know that the categories of "flesh" and "spirit" are never to be confused or intermingled, though the course of God's Spirit can impact our world. Jesus said, "That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit" (John 3:6). And "God is Spirit." The doctrine of the incarnation confuses these categories. What God has separated man has joined together! One of the charges that the apostle Paul levels at simple man is that we have "exchange the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man" (Romans 1:23). Has it ever dawned on us as we sit in church listening to how the glorious Creator made Himself into a man that we could be guilty of this very same thing? The doctrine of the incarnation has reduced the incorruptible God to our own corruptible image. We are made in God's image, not the other way around. It would be more appropriate to put this contrast in starker terms. The defining characteristic of the Creator God is his absolute holiness. God is utterly different from and so utterly transcendent over His creation that any confusion is forbidden!

You read your Bible with American Western eyes.... So proud of your status... with no clue about the Heberw concept of Agency!!!!

Ask nicely and I will show you.... how far off biblical base you are with your western culture and pride! Be aware... Your going to have to bend over and grab your ankles.... for a serious biblical spanking if you do ask.... Please ask...

 

[Pierac]

So.... You think know God.... Joh 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Good then.... let's talk about the Holy Spirit .....

Then.... We can move on to Jesus.....

Now as to the Spirit of God....

Show me the Spirit of God..... Because I can show you


Man Up... 360Watt:

You never Manned up.... not suprised...

I'm going to show up what the Holy Spirit really is.... and it ain't no 3rd person !!!!

When reading in Exodus awhile back, I came upon the phrase "the finger of God." I was aware that the same phrase was used in the book of Luke regarding the method Jesus uses to cast out demons. I decided to do a phrase study using e-Sword. The following information is from my latest research.

Exo 8:19 Then the magicians said to Pharaoh, "This is the finger of God." But Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he would not listen to them, as the LORD had said.
Exo 31:18 And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.


Luk 11:14 Now he was casting out a demon that was mute. When the demon had gone out, the mute man spoke, and the people marveled. 15 But some of them said, "He casts out demons by Beelzebul, the prince of demons," 16 while others, to test him, kept seeking from him a sign from heaven…
Luk 11:20 But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

I had also come upon Scriptures that says Jesus cast out demons by the Spirit of God. This would strongly lead to the conclusion that the finger of God is the Spirit of God the Father.

Mat 12:22 Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. 23 And all the people were amazed, and said, "Can this be the Son of David?" 24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons."
Mat 12:28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.


When you connect Luke 11:20 with Matthew 12:28 then you get the understanding of what the finger of God is.
Luk 11:20 But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Mat 12:28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.


Now the same is true with the Holy Spirit. We also have in the Bible two parallel teachings of the same subject one Matthew and one in Luke.
Luk 12:11 And when they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not be anxious about how you should defend yourself or what you should say, 12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."

Mat 10:19 When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour. 20 For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.


Likewise, when you connect to Matthew 10:20 with Luke 12:12 you get an understanding of what the Holy Spirit is. It is the Spirit of the Father. There is no separate being called the Holy Spirit. Again that's why the Holy Spirit is never worshiped, prayed to, or has a seat on a throne.

Really.... read this post again.... because Satan has already plucked it from your mind!!! Even before you finished.... Don't let Satan win... Mar 4:15
Paul

 

[360watt]

You never Manned up.... not suprised...

I'm going to show up what the Holy Spirit really is.... and it ain't no 3rd person !!!!

When reading in Exodus awhile back, I came upon the phrase "the finger of God." I was aware that the same phrase was used in the book of Luke regarding the method Jesus uses to cast out demons. I decided to do a phrase study using e-Sword. The following information is from my latest research.

Exo 8:19 Then the magicians said to Pharaoh, "This is the finger of God." But Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he would not listen to them, as the LORD had said.
Exo 31:18 And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.


Luk 11:14 Now he was casting out a demon that was mute. When the demon had gone out, the mute man spoke, and the people marveled. 15 But some of them said, "He casts out demons by Beelzebul, the prince of demons," 16 while others, to test him, kept seeking from him a sign from heaven…
Luk 11:20 But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

I had also come upon Scriptures that says Jesus cast out demons by the Spirit of God. This would strongly lead to the conclusion that the finger of God is the Spirit of God the Father.

Mat 12:22 Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. 23 And all the people were amazed, and said, "Can this be the Son of David?" 24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons."
Mat 12:28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.


When you connect Luke 11:20 with Matthew 12:28 then you get the understanding of what the finger of God is.
Luk 11:20 But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Mat 12:28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.


Now the same is true with the Holy Spirit. We also have in the Bible two parallel teachings of the same subject one Matthew and one in Luke.
Luk 12:11 And when they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not be anxious about how you should defend yourself or what you should say, 12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."

Mat 10:19 When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour. 20 For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.


Likewise, when you connect to Matthew 10:20 with Luke 12:12 you get an understanding of what the Holy Spirit is. It is the Spirit of the Father. There is no separate being called the Holy Spirit. Again that's why the Holy Spirit is never worshiped, prayed to, or has a seat on a throne.

Really.... read this post again.... because Satan has alread plucked it from your mind!!! Even before you finished.... Don't let Satan win... Mar 4:15
Paul

Weeell.. I believe in one Triune God. The Holy Spirit an expression of God..as is Jesus and the Father. Although 'expression' doesn't quite work with Jesus talking with the Father. But anyways..

Jesus doing things 'by the hand of the Father '

The Jewish concept of agency has the agent being as the originator themselves.

So Jesus doing things this way..for the Jews seeing Jesus do this..they knew He was claiming equality with the Father.

 

[ChristisGod]

Yes context is king, I agree.

Jesus as God was doing something like 'self limiting'.

So He was voluntarily limiting Himself. It is an incredible thing. But not unscriptural.

But the other thing is the scripture about Jesus asking who touched Him.. what is the context around that?

Because the other thing about it ...is the person who touched Him was believing He had the power of God.

So yes further discussion needed

Yes He has both the nature of man ( limitation) and the nature of God ( without limitations Omni all). Some do not understand the 2 natures in Christ , the Hypostatic Union.

 

[Pierac]

Weeell.. I believe in one Triune God. The Holy Spirit an expression of God..as is Jesus and the Father. Although 'expression' doesn't quite work with Jesus talking with the Father. But anyways..

Jesus doing things 'by the hand of the Father '

The Jewish concept of agency has the agent being as the originator themselves.

So Jesus doing things this way..for the Jews seeing Jesus do this..they knew He was claiming equality with the Father.

Now your starting to see.....

Take this knowledge and listen to the beginning of the church at Pentecost

Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--

Your understanding of Hebrew Agency gets even better with this next statment from Jesus.... Like you said... "for the Jews seeing Jesus do this... they knew He was claiming equality with the Father." He had every right to claim equality... just like Moses.... Exo 7:1... (pure Agency) EVEN... Moses even Spoke as GOD!!!

Deuteronomy 29. Moses summons all of Israel and says to them, "You have seen all that the Lord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh and all his servants and all his land; the great trials which your eyes have seen, those great signs and wonders" (v.2-3). Moses continues to recite for the people all that God has done for them. But notice that in verse 6, while still reciting all God's wonders, Moses suddenly changes to the first person and says, "You have not eaten bread, nor have you drunk wine or strong drink, in order that you might know that I am the LORD your God." It is obvious that God himself is not personally speaking to the people. Moses is preaching. But Moses as the agent of God can speak as though he is the Lord himself. What is happening here? God is speaking through His man, His appointed representative. Therefore, he can move from speaking in the third person, “the LORD did this and that for you" to the first person: "I am the LORD your God doing this and that."

Now for that Statement from Jesus.... Does this sound like God in the flesh... or God's Chosen one??? (Agent) Luk 9:35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; (Agent) listen to Him!"

Joh 8:40 "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.

Silly Child.... You can not be God and then claim to have one...

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him (Who gave him??? )

Joh 20:17 Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

Rev 3:12 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.

Now that we are in Rev.... Look at Chapter 5... Rev 5:1 I saw in the right hand of Him (GOD) who sat on the throne a book...

Rev 5:6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him (GOD)who sat on the throne.

Rev 5:9 And they *sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

I want you to see in Rev Chapter 5..... God is on the throne.... and only Jesus is worthy to appoach and take the Book out of God's hand...
Jesus is not your God... He is God's chosen servant worthy to be our Lord (master) and King.... In the coming kingdom!

Your starting to see...
Paul

 

[Patrick1966]

Ok don't be So Blind!!!

I love the unconditional love that our members so often express to one another!

 

[360watt]

Now your starting to see.....

Take this knowledge and listen to the beginning of the church at Pentecost

Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--

Your understanding of Hebrew Agency gets even better with this next statment from Jesus.... Like you said... "for the Jews seeing Jesus do this... they knew He was claiming equality with the Father." He had every right to claim equality... just like Moses.... Exo 7:1... (pure Agency) EVEN... Moses even Spoke as GOD!!!

Deuteronomy 29. Moses summons all of Israel and says to them, "You have seen all that the Lord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh and all his servants and all his land; the great trials which your eyes have seen, those great signs and wonders" (v.2-3). Moses continues to recite for the people all that God has done for them. But notice that in verse 6, while still reciting all God's wonders, Moses suddenly changes to the first person and says, "You have not eaten bread, nor have you drunk wine or strong drink, in order that you might know that I am the LORD your God." It is obvious that God himself is not personally speaking to the people. Moses is preaching. But Moses as the agent of God can speak as though he is the Lord himself. What is happening here? God is speaking through His man, His appointed representative. Therefore, he can move from speaking in the third person, “the LORD did this and that for you" to the first person: "I am the LORD your God doing this and that."

Now for that Statement from Jesus.... Does this sound like God in the flesh... or God's Chosen one??? (Agent) Luk 9:35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; (Agent) listen to Him!"

Joh 8:40 "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.

Silly Child.... You can not be God and then claim to have one...

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him (Who gave him??? )

Joh 20:17 Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

Rev 3:12 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.

Now that we are in Rev.... Look at Chapter 5... Rev 5:1 I saw in the right hand of Him (GOD) who sat on the throne a book...

Rev 5:6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him (GOD)who sat on the throne.

Rev 5:9 And they *sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

I want you to see in Rev Chapter 5..... God is on the throne.... and only Jesus is worthy to appoach and take the Book out of God's hand...
Jesus is not your God... He is God's chosen servant worthy to be our Lord (master) and King.... In the coming kingdom!

Your starting to see...
Paul

Moses was talking about God with what he was saying...not saying God's words are his. He is saying.. 'hear what God is saying '... Not saying 'I and the Father are one ' or 'I AM'

He wasn't claiming equality with the Father. But Jesus was.

But we can get bogged down in specific words and lose sight of the fact that Jesus gives eternal life, accepts worship and forgives sin of those who have not directly offended Him.

That's fully God

 

[Pierac]

Moses was talking about God with what he was saying...not saying God's words are his. He is saying.. 'hear what God is saying '... Not saying 'I and the Father are one ' or 'I AM'

He wasn't claiming equality with the Father. But Jesus was.

But we can get bogged down in specific words and lose sight of the fact that Jesus gives eternal life, accepts worship and forgives sin of those who have not directly offended Him.

That's fully God

No... Moses never said I Am.... and neither did Jesus.... You just follow what ever you read in the bible in your hand as if it is the word of God.... Sorry... but you have a translation of the word of God... Translations that differ greatly from each other...

NOW.... Let's look at how your pastor confused you with the term I AM and how he told you Jesus made this statement...
Grab your ankles.... Time for a biblical spanking...

There has been quite a bit of discussion on John 8:58. What happened to this verse as to confuse so many? Let's start in Exodus.

KJV Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Now we shall read the same verse from the Greek Septuagint

Septuagint Exo 3:14 και ειπεν ο θεος προς μωυσην [εγω ειμι ο ων] και ειπεν ουτως ερεις τοις υιοις ισραηλ [ο ων] απεσταλκεν με προς υμας
Note the two separate Greek words used for 'am'

Concordant Literal Version Exo 3:14 Then Elohim spoke to Moses: I shall come to be just as I am coming to be. And He said: Thus shall you say to the sons of Israel, I-Shall-Come-to-Be has sent me to you.

Now when translated literally you get a whole different look. What happened to the other I am's?

The Hebrew Bible uses the word (hâyâh H1961) in the place of "Am" which is a verb meaning to exist, to be.
Check the Strongs' number.

Clearly Jesus did not say (εγω ειμι ο ων) nor did he state (ο ων), in John 8:58. Just as the Greek Text shows... Jesus spoke the words (εγω ειμι) just like other people in the bible who are not God. So just what was Jesus saying?

But what about the great "I Am him" statement of Jesus? Especially that classic one in John 8:58 where Jesus says, "Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born I am"?

Surely here Jesus makes the same claim for himself that Jehovah God made back in Exodus 3 where the LORD says to Moses at the burning Bush "I Am Who I Am." Surely Jesus is claiming to be the I AM of the Old Testament as Trinitarian belief asserts?

Now here is something very obvious that they never told you in church. This expression from Jesus' lips "I am" (Greek ego eimi) occurs throughout the Gospel of John and in no other text in John can it mean I AM, the God of the Old Testament.

Go back to John 4:25-26 for instance. The woman at the well said to Jesus, "I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ); when that one comes, he will declare all things to us." And Jesus said to her, "I who speak with you am he." You will notice that in most Bibles that word he is in italics. This means that the translators have correctly supplied a word in English that is not in the Greek but that nevertheless makes the intended sense quite clear. Here Jesus says to the woman - in the context of her question about the Messiah - that he is the Messiah, the Christ. "I who speak to you am he." In the Greek it reads ego eimi. Jesus simply says I am he, the Messiah. Definitely not “I am is the one speaking to you!”

In John 9 Jesus heals the blind man. Is this really the beggar who used to sit groping in the dark? Some people said, "Yes, it's him all right." Other said, "No, he just looks like him." But the beggar says, " ego eimi!" And the translators have no problem writing, "I am the one." So why aren't the translators consistent? Why not capitalize what this man says as I AM? Because it is clear that he is not claiming to be the God of the Old Testament. Saying "I am" (ego eimi) does not make somebody God in the Bible!

What Jesus is saying is simply “Before Abraham was born, I am he,” that is, "I am the Messiah."

Notice the context in John 8:56 where Jesus says, "Abraham rejoiced to see my day." By faith Abraham looked forward and saw the coming Messiah before he came in history. He believed the promise that God would send the Promised One. On the other hand these Jews did not believe that Jesus was their Messiah. They were claiming to be Abraham's descendents. Jesus said that this was impossible for they did not recognize him as their Messiah. But Jesus asserts that even before Abraham was born, he is the One who was always in God's plan. This Abraham believe and saw. The Messiah preexisted in God's plan and therefore in Abraham's believing mind, because he trusted the promise of God. Jesus positively did not say, before Abraham was, I was." Also, Jesus did not say, “Before Abraham was, I AM WHAT I AM."

The conclusion is inevitable. Jesus’ claim "Before Abraham was born, I am he" is the straightforward claim that he is the long promised one, the Messiah, the One in question. Jesus is the Savior in God's promise even before Abraham was born.

The Jewish leaders were very well aware of what Jesus was saying about himself! Jesus Was not claiming to be God but the Son of God as Shown in John 19:6. They give the very reason they wanted Him dead!

John 19:6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him. 7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Jesus, NEVER claimed to be God! He claimed to be God's chosen one... the Messiah/Christ

Paul

 

[Wrangler]

I believe in one Triune God. The Holy Spirit an expression of God..as is Jesus and the Father. Although 'expression' doesn't quite work with Jesus talking with the Father.

At least you recognize this belief of yours does not quite work in some manner, shape or form.

 

[Patrick1966]

No... Moses never said I Am.... and neither did Jesus.... You just follow what ever you read in the bible in your hand as if it is the word of God.... Sorry... but you have a translation of the word of God... Translations that differ greatly from each other...

NOW.... Let's look at how your pastor confused you with the term I AM and how he told you Jesus made this statement...
Grab your ankles.... Time for a biblical spanking...

There has been quite a bit of discussion on John 8:58. What happened to this verse as to confuse so many? Let's start in Exodus.

KJV Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Now we shall read the same verse from the Greek Septuagint

Septuagint Exo 3:14 και ειπεν ο θεος προς μωυσην [εγω ειμι ο ων] και ειπεν ουτως ερεις τοις υιοις ισραηλ [ο ων] απεσταλκεν με προς υμας
Note the two separate Greek words used for 'am'

Concordant Literal Version Exo 3:14 Then Elohim spoke to Moses: I shall come to be just as I am coming to be. And He said: Thus shall you say to the sons of Israel, I-Shall-Come-to-Be has sent me to you.

Now when translated literally you get a whole different look. What happened to the other I am's?

The Hebrew Bible uses the word (hâyâh H1961) in the place of "Am" which is a verb meaning to exist, to be.
Check the Strongs' number.

Clearly Jesus did not say (εγω ειμι ο ων) nor did he state (ο ων), in John 8:58. Just as the Greek Text shows... Jesus spoke the words (εγω ειμι) just like other people in the bible who are not God. So just what was Jesus saying?

But what about the great "I Am him" statement of Jesus? Especially that classic one in John 8:58 where Jesus says, "Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born I am"?

Surely here Jesus makes the same claim for himself that Jehovah God made back in Exodus 3 where the LORD says to Moses at the burning Bush "I Am Who I Am." Surely Jesus is claiming to be the I AM of the Old Testament as Trinitarian belief asserts?

Now here is something very obvious that they never told you in church. This expression from Jesus' lips "I am" (Greek ego eimi) occurs throughout the Gospel of John and in no other text in John can it mean I AM, the God of the Old Testament.

Go back to John 4:25-26 for instance. The woman at the well said to Jesus, "I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ); when that one comes, he will declare all things to us." And Jesus said to her, "I who speak with you am he." You will notice that in most Bibles that word he is in italics. This means that the translators have correctly supplied a word in English that is not in the Greek but that nevertheless makes the intended sense quite clear. Here Jesus says to the woman - in the context of her question about the Messiah - that he is the Messiah, the Christ. "I who speak to you am he." In the Greek it reads ego eimi. Jesus simply says I am he, the Messiah. Definitely not “I am is the one speaking to you!”

In John 9 Jesus heals the blind man. Is this really the beggar who used to sit groping in the dark? Some people said, "Yes, it's him all right." Other said, "No, he just looks like him." But the beggar says, " ego eimi!" And the translators have no problem writing, "I am the one." So why aren't the translators consistent? Why not capitalize what this man says as I AM? Because it is clear that he is not claiming to be the God of the Old Testament. Saying "I am" (ego eimi) does not make somebody God in the Bible!

What Jesus is saying is simply “Before Abraham was born, I am he,” that is, "I am the Messiah."

Notice the context in John 8:56 where Jesus says, "Abraham rejoiced to see my day." By faith Abraham looked forward and saw the coming Messiah before he came in history. He believed the promise that God would send the Promised One. On the other hand these Jews did not believe that Jesus was their Messiah. They were claiming to be Abraham's descendents. Jesus said that this was impossible for they did not recognize him as their Messiah. But Jesus asserts that even before Abraham was born, he is the One who was always in God's plan. This Abraham believe and saw. The Messiah preexisted in God's plan and therefore in Abraham's believing mind, because he trusted the promise of God. Jesus positively did not say, before Abraham was, I was." Also, Jesus did not say, “Before Abraham was, I AM WHAT I AM."

The conclusion is inevitable. Jesus’ claim "Before Abraham was born, I am he" is the straightforward claim that he is the long promised one, the Messiah, the One in question. Jesus is the Savior in God's promise even before Abraham was born.

The Jewish leaders were very well aware of what Jesus was saying about himself! Jesus Was not claiming to be God but the Son of God as Shown in John 19:6. They give the very reason they wanted Him dead!

John 19:6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him. 7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Jesus, NEVER claimed to be God! He claimed to be God's chosen one... the Messiah/Christ

Paul

Thanks for your scriptural response.

Is it possible that Jesus is, essentially, God's "avatar" (so to speak) here on Earth? Or are you saying that Jesus is actually his own entity?

Thanks again.

 

[360watt]

At least you recognize this belief of yours does not quite work in some manner, shape or form.

Well, people can come up with terms to try and express the one Triune God.. but they fall short.. because it is beyond our complete understanding.

I don't like the word 'persons' for the Trinity.. because in my mind.. that is seperate beings. But then I try 'expressions'. .and it seems to be good.. but then Jesus talking to the Father just becomes and 'expression' talking to an 'expression'.. when they are distinct entities.

The main thing is .. I don't believe the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are seperate. Or seperate beings.

One being.. God.. in 3 personas/essences/substances. And not modalism.. it's not sock puppets.

But scripture is clear .. Jesus is fully God.

He didn't have to say 'I am God' to people. His actions and abilities showed it.

'Son' also.. does not mean 'born out of'.. like our families. It is 'image' 'expression' 'supreme heir'.. that's the biblical context of it.

I am not sure what you believe about Jesus.. but this my thoughts.