Free Will and God’s Sovereignty

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Netchaplain

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The Sovereignty of God

“When God by His Spirit inclines one to receive the Savior, that one, in so doing, acts only in the consciousness of his own choice. It is obvious that to present a convincing argument to a person which leads that one to make a decision, does not partake of the nature of a coercion of the will.

“In such case, every function of the will is preserved and, in relation to the Gospel, it remains true that ‘whosoever will may come’; yet back of this truth is the deeper revelation that no fallen man wills to accept the Savior until enlightened by the Holy Spirit (God has to cause believers to desire His ‘pleasure’ – Phl 2:13.” —L S Chafer


Corruption of Man’s Will

“The will, that commanding faculty, which was once faithful and ruled with God (in Adam—NC), is now traitor, and rules with and for the devil. There is, in the unrenewed will, an utter inability for what is truly good and acceptable in the sight of God. The natural man’s will is in Satan’s fetters (inescapably so - Jhn 8:44—NC); hemmed in within the circle of evil, and cannot move beyond it any more that a dead man can raise himself out of the grave (Eph 2:1). He can do nothing truly spiritually good (Jn 15:5). His very choice and desire for spiritual things is carnal and selfish (Jn 6:26). He not only refuses to come to the Savior—but he cannot come (Jn 6:44).”—Thomas Boston


Free Will and the Christian

“The question is, does the Father allow His children perfect freedom of will? If some of you who have been the Lord’s children for a long time will cast a glance over your past history, you will be able to recall occasions when He spoke and you obeyed immediately.

“But you can recall other occasions when He spoke and you resisted or failed to respond. Yet strangely, after a time you just found yourself in the way of obedience. At certain times you may have put up quite a strong resistance to the Father’s will and you may have persisted in this resistance. Then somehow, quite unaccountably, you found that the resistance was gone. Such is the work of the Holy Spirit’s government in our lives (Gal 5:17—NC).

“Even if we are totally unable to obey and cannot even exercise faith, a day comes when the resistance has vanished and we are trusting the Lord Jesus in simplicity of heart. It is the tireless energy of the indwelling Spirit that has accomplished this. ‘For it is God who works in you to will and to do of His good pleasure” (Phl 2:13).”—J B Stoney


God’s Will vs Man’s Will

“Does God force salvation on anyone? We often hear people say, ‘God never violates the human will,’ not realizing that this would make of man ‘little gods.’”

“God’s will of His election applies here. We can recall the names of many great men, such as Moses, Johan, Paul and many other whose free will was overcome to the end that God might exercise His own sovereign will. Every man would remain lost forever if God did not overcome, or supplant man’s will, because man’s will is to sin (though sin is not our desire, yet cannot break completely free of the old man’s tempting, but are free of its guilt and dominion—NC). Without the exerting of God’s will, man could not attain unto righteousness because there is no righteousness except of God (no man has his own righteousness, it’s all God’s that we walk in—NC).

“To what do we attribute the ‘force’ of God? What do we call true repentance? What do we call a contrite spirit if it is not the work of the Father within us. If anyone is a true Christian, it is well that God ‘forced’ him to receive salvation (but not through coercion—NC), because he would never have received it under his own will power. ‘It is the goodness of God that leads you to repentance’ (Ro 2:4).”—R H


True Freedom

“If in His absolute freedom God has willed to give man limited freedom, who is there to stay His hand or say, ‘What doest Thou’ (Rom 9:20)? Man’s will is free because God is sovereign (sovereign in the sense of possessing control of the results or outcome of all things—NC). A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures (without moral freedom man would be more decadent—NC).

“Salvation is from our side a choice (moral freedom to choose what’s right—NC); from the divine side it is a seizing upon, an apprehending or conquest by the Most High God (God causes us to want to choose Him—NC). Our ‘accepting’ and ‘willing’ are reactions, rather than actions. The right of determination (choice of final results—NC) must always remain with the sovereign God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.”—A W Tozer


Salvation of the Lord—or is it of Man

“Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto Thee” (Psa 65:4).

“Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto Me, except it were given unto him of My Father” (Jn 6:65, also 44).

“You hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins . . . But God, Who is rich in mercy, for His great love wherewith He loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God; Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them” (walk in them but not be the originator of them - Eph 2:1, 4, 5, 8-10).

“So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy” (Ro 9:16).

“According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love; Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath made us accepted in the Beloved.” (Eph 1:4-6).

“Salvation is of God” (Jonah 2:29). —Unknown








MJS daily devotional excerpt for April 17


“The difficult thing for most hungry-hearted believers is to wait in dependence upon the Lord for everything. Truth is not to be grasped, but received—received by faith, mainly through study.” –MJS

“To the believer who has been taught by the Holy Spirit something of his own utter, inbred sinfulness, it comes as a message from God full of hope and encouragement. He grasps the rescue rope flung to him by the right hand of Omnipotence, and with humble thankfulness sets out to learn how he can reckon himself dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God in Jesus Christ our Lord. When he looks at the Cross he sees there the fact that not only did the Lord Jesus die for him, but that he himself was taken down into His death, in order that the practical reality of His resurrection life might transform him into the divine likeness.” –James Campbell Moore (1863-1932).
 

Behold

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“According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world,

Let me show you were Calvin's theological sewer spawned into "Calvinism".

1.) Calvin was unable to comprehend that "God's Foreknowledge" is not the same as "Pre-Destined".

Ive ever met a disciple of Calvin who could understand it.
Not one.

So, JC combined them as "the same" then created the Cross Denying Theology that "Limits" The Cross and the Grace of God... to only the "pre-destined" or "God Chosen", which denies the Cross and does not recognize Free Will.


2.) According as He has chosen us "in Christ".


So, Chosen how? "in Christ", and that is to be born again into Christ.

This happens when a person hears the Gospel, and believes it. God them births them into Christ.

So, the choosing is not based on being chosen to believe, but its based on becoming= "in Christ", by Grace through Faith, as born again.
And God's Foreknowledge knows exactly who will believe and who will never become "in Christ" by free will, based on "faith being counted as righteousness""..., and those who Do Believe (Free Will) ...= God knew they would (Foreknowledge) , and based on them being In Christ, (born again) they then continue in Eternal Life, and eventually reach "conformed into the image of Christ" after they die.
That "conforming" is pre-destined to happen to everyone who by faith becomes = "in Christ".
 
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Behold

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God says He is unwilling that any perish but many choose to each day.

Imagine teaching that God Chooses some ( before they are born)...... to burn in the Lake of Fire, because God didn't choose them to Believe in Christ.

Welcome to : Calvinism
 
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Netchaplain

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Let me show you were Calvin's theological sewer spawned into "Calvinism".
Calvin was correct concerning eternal security, but wrong conceiving that God chose the sinner, for man must chose for himself whether or not he will love and obey God (multiple Scriptures supporting this, e.g. Deu 30:19); otherwise He would be "a respecter of persons" (prejudice), which is impossible (Acts 10:34; Mat 22:16; Luk 20:21; Rom 2:11; Gal 2:6; Eph 6:9; Col 3:25; 1Pe 1:17). The point many fail to understand is that God knows who will receive Him, and these are the only one's He can save. He sees who will choose Him and then He choses to give them faith, and all that is involved with faith. Faith never fails to believe, but can come short in misunderstanding certain things, until he is taught it ("they that seek the LORD will understand all things" (Pro 28:5).

Arminius was wrong that man can loose his salvation, but right that man must make a choice for being right with God (not all Arminians agree on this point; some have held that believers are eternally secure in the salvation of Christ). Their is a great misunderstanding that God wouldn't choose some to salvation, which is all that is bereft to think if He doesn't choose everyone. Salvation is to all, but God knows most will not choose it (Mat 7:13, 14)!

Why would God deny one, since He "will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1Ti 2:4); "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2Pe 3:9). It would be direct contradictory of Scripture to conceive God to be prejudice!
 

Behold

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Calvin was correct concerning eternal security, but wrong

I quoted you so that what you said is 100% correct.

Calvin was able to understand the "security of the Believer" but he was a Cross denying theologian, otherwise.

So, Typical of the Devil and the Devil's ministers, He has 10% truth added to 90% deception.
That is what the Devil does.....he mixes in a little bit of truth, with mostly error, and this "sounds" right, often, but is completely wrong.

Here is a little poem, that is based on Calvin.

"Truth and untruth went swimming together.
When Truth's back was turned, untruth stole Truth's clothes.
Now, untruth parade about as truth
while Truth goes about as the naked truth."""

All Heresy does is mix in what is wrong so that it denies what it True.

The Devil will be the first to agree that Jesus died on the Cross., just before He says that the Cross is limited to some, and not offered to all.

The Devil will be the first to tell you that your eternity is forever once saved, and then He'll say, "as long as God chose you", which denies the Cross.

Always remember, that the Cross is the Core the fulcrum of Salvation, and all heretics deny it, avoid it, or remain silent about it.
 

Behold

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God knows who will receive Him, and these are the only one's He can save.

That's CALVINISM.
That is "you dont have freewill", so, God has to choose you.

What you just did, was what Calvin did...You defined "foreknowledge" as "predestined".

See, its true that God knows who is going to trust in Christ, just as God knows the Cross is a universal offer ALL = to come and be saved.
He does not choose you to come....>He offers Salvation for you to choose.
See, if you are forced to have faith, then its not faith, as you didnt choose to believe.

"BELIEVING" is how you are chosen, and God knows who will believe.

Here is what you dont understand, NetChaplin, nor did Calvin.

If God chooses you to be saved, then that means that those who are not saved were not Chosen to be so.
And that is NOT THEIR FAULT.
So, God is not JUST, if He wont choose you to believe, and then you end up in Hell for being a Christ Rejector, only because you are not one of the "pre-destined".

So, that GARBAGE Theology, is CALVINISM, and its demonic, its of the devil, and its infectiously deceiving, as that is how the Devil designed it.
 

grumix8

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We have freedom and God gives it. The devil had it and we can choose to far away from sin or be saved by jesus.
 

Behold

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God chose mankind to salvation (Tit 2:11), All have limited free will, but not completely

Tit 2:11 does not say anything about God Choosing.
The verse says that Jesus as Salvation has come.

also,

Limiting free will, is Calvin's concept, based on his idea that Total Depravity, which is another of his inventions, limits man's ability to understand how to choose regarding Christ.
Calvin's Theology is like a mad scientist turned loose in a Laboratory.
He just keeps mixing all the chemicals together, with the lights turned off upstairs.
 

grumix8

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Remember Calvin did not create freewill, God did and he no referee neither i'm i or anyone only God is. ;D.
 

Netchaplain

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Tit 2:11 does not say anything about God Choosing.
God chose to save mankind with salvation, which nobody else could do. He just knows it's going to be a "few" (Mat 7:13, 14) in comparison to the lost.
 

grumix8

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Yes, how unworthy humans are we are saved no matter what Trump came and his presence saved the world and he left and after all he did people got him out of politics and things are worst than ever. You have Israel they are Gods people but made mistakes also since Moses hit the water and when Israel was a kingdom what Saul did and later fell David as king. We talk the time when in 2024 Putin will be removed by many analysts say. Patrick is right how unworthy people are that they get saved by not their ways or have so much money they want, they want, they want, and want !


People are ungrateful and still good things but humans are unthankful and want and want and nevere grateful to our God who has saved us in ways we don't believe came real. We are ungrateful and Israel is ungrateful and to this day everyone ungrateful .

God saved us thru Moses parting the red sea, when Jesus came and he alas has come unto us and he's kingdom come is here. He saved us thru medicine in there been discovered by doctors, he has saved us thru politicla things and religious things. Even though we do not see it but he has saved us from them and many more. God is good with us and even though humans do the disaster even our own christians falter and judge God -_-. No it shoudn't happen were all been thru so many things and I know christians who have left the church and for small disputes no were all witnesess of his glory. We doubt God it should not happen to us.
 

grumix8

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a good friend said this.
Premise 1: There are 3 billion people who never heard of Christ -see https://www.christiantoday.com/arti...lion.who.have.never.heard.of.jesus/136398.htm
Premise 2: One must know of Christ to be saved (John 3:18)
Conclusion: Free will is impossible to at least 25%
Premise 1: Approximately 25% of individuals do not reach the age of accountability due to abortions, sickness, miscarriages, war, etc.
Conclusion: Free will is impossible for all these people
Premise 1: Children have a great tendency to be of the same religion as their parent(s) ... see https://www.pewresearch.org/religio...us-upbringing-and-current-religious-identity/
Conclusion: The decision of people is very often not entirely their own which contradicts the concept of free will

Premise 1: Free Will is not found in the bible
Conclusion: Free Will is not biblical. ... like "dah".
 

grumix8

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This is the promblem free will the words together was not used in the bible but freedom did exist in hebrew language and it's term used in mosaic law describing freedom to do God's will. Freedom was given and it is written by law thru the word freedom a slave is free also concept. There are words in hebrew but the word in modern age is not use to say freedom and doing will of God.

And the words exist in the time the devil rebelled and had words that speak of free and will in those times of moses doesn't mean they aren't real but are coined together diferently from freewill the modern world use. Words exist in hebrew but are used differently
 

grumix8

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It helps to discuss the promblem of sin and salvation what your aiming here netchaplain but i'm talking about freewill before our creation because were past that and now talking about sin and freedom of sin into beinga child of God but growth and becoming is part of growth there.


There is more freewill in it's different stages. There is Why, Satan rebbelion ? Which proves freewill existed and it' philosophy is not comprehended and Freewill God had that he gave us and we have it small but still we can do some things and the freewill Adam had we can do also.

There is that and we can use freewill like god intended tell me do you know that freewill existed in Eden, before it, and we use it ?


Do you have freewill let me ask you and do agree determinism or don't believe in God's sovereignty that he put the path and you can change it ? Do you believe or you cannot change destiny ?

God has let paths be changed he has let us choose, Israel and all of us were destined to be in sin forever because of the fall but thru Jesus we can change our path and be saved simple. But some people won't go there but continue that everything has been planned by God and even the small things are decided for us ! And say God is unfair, we cannot Judge but God decided for us to protect us for a reason.

Don't complicate yourself be free of salvation and put things in God hands ask him to give you freewill under his wise wisdom and he chose the path becuase of the plan of God. Everything is connected in life and to find the secrets of freewill we will find the secret of Why, were here why God choose this for us and the purpose of why he sent us here. Know he's will and you will find what is the plan of God.