"Free" Will

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JoJoRoss

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[SIZE=medium] If anyone out there thinks we have "free" will, please let me know how you get by these verses:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Romans 9:11-23[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]12 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]13 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]14 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]15 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]16 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]17 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]18 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]19 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]20 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]21 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]22 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]23 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Thanks![/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]God's Peace,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]JoJo[/SIZE]
 

RANDOR

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You have the free will to get past those verses :)

Don't hover there to long...........Jesus wants you to come out and play :)
 

JoJoRoss

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You have the free will to get past those verses :)

Don't hover there to long...........Jesus wants you to come out and play :)

Haha yes Randor, Jesus wants us to come out and play (spread the good news right?). BUT we are to proclaim Gods truth when we go out and play right?


Gods Peace,
JoJo
 
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nothead

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JoJoRoss said:
[SIZE=medium] If anyone out there thinks we have "free" will, please let me know how you get by these verses:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Romans 9:11-23[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt](For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]12 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]13 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]14 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]15 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]16 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]17 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]18 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]19 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]20 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]21 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]22 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]23 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Thanks![/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]God's Peace,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]JoJo[/SIZE]

Although FREE WILL is not exactly biblical, for all kinds of hinderances to will exist, and all kinds of handicaps to strong will exists...

but and yet our will is the only thing we have in order to give God glory. Our will is that God's will be done on earth as it is ideally in heaven...

...and this will of Jesus was not necessarily THE overcoming factor, yet necessary for the whole. See how Paul is saying the major factor is to be blessed...

yet he has always known the Shema, to love God with all of our soul, heart and might, the Great Command which never changes.

So then the runner knows to be blessed with strength, fortitude and endurance is primal... but that his own heart and soul in WILL or his nephesh, the character God made him is also part of the equation...

...in fact HIS part since he was known by God before he was ever born, to do the Sovereign destiny God already determined.

From God's POV everything is done. From our own all things are open. This is the limitation of men. To say our will, strength and mind HAS NO PART is Calvinistic and flawed.

How the equation works no man can say. Paul said this specifically when he said we are the formed clay pots. But it is there along with the necessary variables, our will and the blessedness or lack thereof of God.\

All men hope for and ask for this blessedness. I am convinced God hears fervent prayer. No Calvinist needs to pray at all, since they are theologically handicapped.
 

JoJoRoss

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[SIZE=medium]but and yet our will is the only thing we have in order to give God glory. Our will is that God's will be done on earth as it is ideally in heaven...[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ok Nothead, but how do we will?:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]"No man CAN come to Me, except the Father which has sent Me draw [Gk: ‘drag’] him: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:44). This verse is plain: "No man CAN…" come to Christ of his own will. It is the Father "dragging" him that is the cause of one coming to Christ, not his own supposed free will.[/SIZE]


...and this will of Jesus was not necessarily THE overcoming factor, yet necessary for the whole.
The will of Jesus is the will of the Father:

John 5:30-I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.


yet he has always known the Shema, to love God with all of our soul, heart and might, the Great Command which never changes.
How do we love God?:

"We love Him [God] because He FIRST LOVED US" (I John 4:19).


So then the runner knows to be blessed with strength, fortitude and endurance is primal... but that his own heart and soul in WILL or his nephesh, the character God made him is also part of the equation...

...in fact HIS part since he was known by God before he was ever born, to do the Sovereign destiny God already determined.
I think you just admited here that we do not have a will of our own-"Sovereign destiny God already determined."

From God's POV everything is done. From our own all things are open. This is the limitation of men. To say our will, strength and mind HAS NO PART is Calvinistic and flawed.

How the equation works no man can say. Paul said this specifically when he said we are the formed clay pots. But it is there along with the necessary variables, our will and the blessedness or lack thereof of God.\

All men hope for and ask for this blessedness. I am convinced God hears fervent prayer. No Calvinist needs to pray at all, since they are theologically handicapped.
[SIZE=10.5pt]I am no Calvinist. I am a believer of Jesus Christ and his Gospel according to the Word of God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]We have a will but it is not a free will. God puts everything in front of us knowing it is for shaping us to be like Him. Cause and effect.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]There is not ONE who choses God (Romans 3:11).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]God does hear prayer. God answers prayer. It’s all part of His Will.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]How can you read scriptures that state that it is ALL GOD and still say it is also us?:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Or despise you the riches of HIS goodness [‘His goodness;’ not our free will] and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God LEADS [God’s ‘leading’ is the CAUSE] you to repentance?" (Rom. 2:4). Where is the ‘free will’ in this statement? "God LEADS…" is the cause of repentance, not free will.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]"I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God [not faith ‘IN’ the Son of God, but the very faith ‘OF’ the Son of God—it is His faith, not ours until He gives us some of it] Who loved me, and gave Himself for me" (Gal. 2:20). It is not by the ‘free will’ of our faith that we live, but the by the faith OF Jesus. There is no human free will in all this.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]"I am the Vine, ye are the branches: He that abides in Me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit, for without ME YE CAN DO NOTHING" (John 15:5). According to God’s Word, what is it that we can do by our own will? Answer: "NOTHING." It is Christ "IN him" that brings forth much fruit. Man does not bring forth much fruit by his fabled free will.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]"And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:11). Is this man’s part in his own salvation? Must man confess that Jesus Christ is his Lord by his OWN FREE WILL, or it will have no real meaning? Is that how this confession is made? Answer: "…no man can say [with his fabled free will] that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit" (I Cor. 12). Do we profess Jesus as our Lord by our own will or by the Holy Spirit? "By the Holy Spirit" is the cause. Our own will is not the cause of our calling Jesus, Lord.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11.5pt]For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ [Christ not us] not only to believe in him[/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt], but also to suffer for him, (Philip 1:29).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that [‘that faith’] not of yourselves [NOT of your own faith or will] it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are HIS workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them" (Eph. 2:8-10).[/SIZE]

Free Will is NOT biblical.

[SIZE=12pt]Gods Peace,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]JoJo[/SIZE]
 
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God's plan is so vast that our freewill is a part of His plan. The best example of this is with the story of Joseph, he knew that his brother would bow before him and they chose to sell him which God knew would happen and allowed His plan to work.
 

nothead

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[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ok Nothead, but how do we will?:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]"No man CAN come to Me, except the Father which has sent Me draw [Gk: ‘drag’] him: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:44). This verse is plain: "No man CAN…" come to Christ of his own will. It is the Father "dragging" him that is the cause of one coming to Christ, not his own supposed free will.[/SIZE]
Did I say FREE WILL? No.

How do I will? How do I know? OF COURSE God has drawn you to him, and his Son. But how does it work, this drawing? No man knows. He just wills.

The will of Jesus is the will of the Father:


John 5:30-I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Not IS ontologically, but AFTER the will of the Father, just as yours is and mine is, IF we do not take the Bribe.




How do we love God?:

"We love Him [God] because He FIRST LOVED US" (I John 4:19).

And?


I think you just admited here that we do not have a will of our own-"Sovereign destiny God already determined."

It is not either/or, but BOTH. And how it works YOU DON'T KNOW, clay pot. So then you just MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS and will away. To the best you can to the ideal, which is to will the will of YHWH ELOHIM, sir.

[SIZE=10.5pt]I am no Calvinist. I am a believer of Jesus Christ and his Gospel according to the Word of God.[/SIZE]
You are quite the Calvinist whether you follow him directly or not. His paradigms taint the Baptists to the Reformed. And everyone in between. Saying you HAVE NO WILL.

What kinda poo you been making your diet, sir?






We have a will but it is not a free will. God puts everything in front of us knowing it is for shaping us to be like Him. Cause and effect.
Yes, but again you don't know how the mechanism works. So you just go on WILLING YOUR will, the one which NO ONE ELSE HAS, and do this giving credit to God and his blessing OF your will, also praying for MORE BLESSEDNESS of your will in order that it NOT be hampered in the future.

"Lead me not into temptation." The sordid prayer a CALVINIST never prays.




There is not ONE who choses God (Romans 3:11).
But you are to choose to LOVE GOD with all of your heart soul and might. Great Command affirmed by Jesus in Mk 12 to be YOUR first command.

Key. To all Calvinistic perverted mind-sets.



God does hear prayer. God answers prayer. It’s all part of His Will.
Duh.



How can you read scriptures that state that it is ALL GOD and still say it is also us?:
Did not God give you your own nephesh, or SOUL which is yours alone? 'Cmon now, are you born yesterday?




Or despise you the riches of HIS goodness [‘His goodness;’ not our free will] and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God LEADS [God’s ‘leading’ is the CAUSE] you to repentance?" (Rom. 2:4). Where is the ‘free will’ in this statement? "God LEADS…" is the cause of repentance, not free will.
You have me in a false category. I never said FREE WILL. Repeat.





"I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God [not faith ‘IN’ the Son of God, but the very faith ‘OF’ the Son of God—it is His faith, not ours until He gives us some of it] Who loved me, and gave Himself for me" (Gal. 2:20). It is not by the ‘free will’ of our faith that we live, but the by the faith OF Jesus. There is no human free will in all this.
You must understand Paul's position. He was blessed with NO DESERVEDNESS in spite of his participation in the persecution of the saints. Struck blind IN SPITE of his opposite path...

...knowing now the pure blessedness of undeserved blessedness, now you get the picture?

Like the prodigal son, does this NEGATE all efforts of the good son at all? "All I have is yours." No. The will efforts of the good son will not go unrewarded.

Don't even think it. Rewards are my hope and I don't say God just did it. WE did it. Of course. "Well done my good and faithful servant." You think he was talking to HIMSELF, sir?

Huh? Huh?

Let me give an example of this same Paul who WILLS with all of his might now to love God with the Shema race, the race of athletes he analogizes to his own life...

...willing more than even his peers to do the will of God, both annointed will and self-propelled will, ALL OF HIS MIGHT, mind and soul.

Paul ran the Shema race, in other words. And finished with a kick to the end.




"I am the Vine, ye are the branches: He that abides in Me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit, for without ME YE CAN DO NOTHING" (John 15:5). According to God’s Word, what is it that we can do by our own will? Answer: "NOTHING." It is Christ "IN him" that brings forth much fruit. Man does not bring forth much fruit by his fabled free will.
You have this ongoing diatribe against the notion of FREE WILL. I never touted it. I never said it.



[SIZE=medium]"And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:11). Is this man’s part in his own salvation? Must man confess that Jesus Christ is his Lord by his OWN FREE WILL, or it will have no real meaning? Is that how this confession is made? Answer: "…no man can say [with his fabled free will] that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit" (I Cor. 12). Do we profess Jesus as our Lord by our own will or by the Holy Spirit? "By the Holy Spirit" is the cause. Our own will is not the cause of our calling Jesus, Lord.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11.5pt]For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ [Christ not us] not only to believe in him[/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt], but also to suffer for him, (Philip 1:29).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that [‘that faith’] not of yourselves [NOT of your own faith or will] it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are HIS workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them" (Eph. 2:8-10).[/SIZE]

Free Will is NOT biblical.
But your WILL to love God is required of you. So do it. And don't second guess yourself, saying it is God only. DO IT. Shema, God's first and Greatest Command.

Upon which all the Law and the Prophets hang.
 

nothead

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shturt678 said:
Only a head's up, ie, "Free-will" defined: the power to apply one's self in the things that make for salvation," ie, all have an "Enslaved-will."

Old Jack 'enslaved' to our Lord God-man Jesus Christ.
'Enslaved will' is not FREE will, don't try to snow us. We do have power to apply ourselves to good and to eternal life...


....but where God's power starts and finishes no man knows, in relation to where man's power starts and finishes the equation of our lives.


So just leave it out. It ain't biblical anyway. God never said our will is UNBOUND. He did however say TO USE IT to the uttermost.

As opposed to UDDERMOST, which is for cows.
 

shturt678

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nothead said:
'Enslaved will' is not FREE will, don't try to snow us. We do have power to apply ourselves to good and to eternal life...


....but where God's power starts and finishes no man knows, in relation to where man's power starts and finishes the equation of our lives.


So just leave it out. It ain't biblical anyway. God never said our will is UNBOUND. He did however say TO USE IT to the uttermost.

As opposed to UDDERMOST, which is for cows.
Thank you again for your response and caring!

btw it does 'snow' in Hawaii, ie, was in a blizzard one time at Mauna Kea, ie, wait till you see 'hail,' 'fire,' mixed with blood' (Rev.8:7)?

Agape these lower paygrade threads, ie, great!

Sorry, thought you would get these easier ones, eg, Acts4:28 & Eph.1:11, All have an "Enslaved-will" due to God's power that all things happen by necessity, and there can be no freedom in man.

Old Jack,

btw I thought it was a fools perogative to 'utter' truths?
 

nothead

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shturt678 said:
Thank you again for your response and caring!

btw it does 'snow' in Hawaii, ie, was in a blizzard one time at Mauna Kea, ie, wait till you see 'hail,' 'fire,' mixed with blood' (Rev.8:7)?

Agape these lower paygrade threads, ie, great!

Sorry, thought you would get these easier ones, eg, Acts4:28 & Eph.1:11, All have an "Enslaved-will" due to God's power that all things happen by necessity, and there can be no freedom in man.

Old Jack,

btw I thought it was a fools perogative to 'utter' truths?
[SIZE=.75em]28 [/SIZE]For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Eph 1

[SIZE=.75em]11 [/SIZE]In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Yeah, so why aren't you just a couch potato then? Because the Shema says to will to love God with your uttermost? Like as in...everything you have and can will? Every effort including straining and stressing?

Or are you a do-nothing since God predetermined all things? Absolute Determinism includes your will, old son. And not only that, the Great Command says to use it to the uttermost.

ALL.

Not quite Vince Lombardi's 110%. About as impossible though. I got up to 102% myself and had to let up. My gaskets were blowing, I could feel it.

101.674% is the most I could sustain. And that was only for a few decades, eh.
 

shturt678

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nothead said:
[SIZE=.75em]28 [/SIZE]For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Eph 1

[SIZE=.75em]11 [/SIZE]In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Thank you for your response and caring again!

Let me share a little better rendition of Epl.1:1, "in him in whom also we were given a lot...." Grammatically, contextually, and implicatudely, the verb simply means, "we were assigned a lot" in connection with the Christ, ie, under his God-man administration. The verb means neither, "we have obtained an inheritance," or "in whom also we have obtained an inheritance,"

The verb means neither! It's all Greek to me, however the Greek words for "inheritance," "heir," "to inherit"are derived from kleros or "lot" - - a lot or allotment assigned by a testament - - the present verb does not stress the idea of interitance, ie, I knew you would get it, ie, 2nd semester basics.



Yeah, so why aren't you just a couch potato then? Because the Shema says to will to love God with your uttermost? Like as in...everything you have and can will? Every effort including straining and stressing?

Or are you a do-nothing since God predetermined all things? Absolute Determinism includes your will, old son. And not only that, the Great Command says to use it to the uttermost.

ALL.
The Shema is a little different, ie, we are to know the true God in truth, and allow Him to allign our will with His Will sort of thing, TURNING TO HIM WITH ALL WE HAVE, WAAAAY BEYOND CHURCH ON SUNDAY FOR THE WHOLE "1" HOUR.

[QUOTE4]Not quite Vince Lombardi's 110%. About as impossible though. I got up to 102% myself and had to let up. My gaskets were blowing, I could feel it.

101.674% is the most I could sustain. And that was only for a few decades, eh[/QUOTE].

I really think your getting it, ie, great!

Old Jack
 

DPMartin

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Well this discussion always goes back and forth and its worth the investigation for the resolution thereof.

In heaven you have choices, but you didn’t make the choice to be born into heaven no more then you can say God has Children that He didn’t intend to have. In the world you have choices but you didn’t choose to be in the world. Adam didn’t choose a garden to live in. God made the garden and then put the man therein. In the garden Adam had choices, but he didn’t choose to be cast out of the garden. Out side of the garden Adam and the sons of Adam have choices that are available to them but they don’t get to choose to be in the Garden, do they? To be in the garden is not a choice for men to make, or people would, or would have been climbing the walls of it to get in there.
We don’t really choose to be born of Spirit meaning the Holy Spirit, that is God’s choice. No more than, we don’t choose to be born into the world, your physical parents did.
There is a call some heed the call, could that be because those that heed the call are chosen? And are they chosen because it seems they have an ear to hear, and the heart to respond? Didn’t the Lord say that His know His voice?
 

nothead

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DPMartin said:
Well this discussion always goes back and forth and its worth the investigation for the resolution thereof.

In heaven you have choices, but you didn’t make the choice to be born into heaven no more then you can say God has Children that He didn’t intend to have. In the world you have choices but you didn’t choose to be in the world. Adam didn’t choose a garden to live in. God made the garden and then put the man therein. In the garden Adam had choices, but he didn’t choose to be cast out of the garden. Out side of the garden Adam and the sons of Adam have choices that are available to them but they don’t get to choose to be in the Garden, do they? To be in the garden is not a choice for men to make, or people would, or would have been climbing the walls of it to get in there.
We don’t really choose to be born of Spirit meaning the Holy Spirit, that is God’s choice. No more than, we don’t choose to be born into the world, your physical parents did.
There is a call some heed the call, could that be because those that heed the call are chosen? And are they chosen because it seems they have an ear to hear, and the heart to respond? Didn’t the Lord say that His know His voice?
Calvinists stop there, affirming they themselves are chosen. There is however a difference in STARTING Covenant and DOING and FINISHING Covenant.

As with most mainstreamers, being chosen INTO COVENANT isn't the same thing as being sovereignly determined TO GO TO HEAVEN.

In other words, Calvinists get CALLED confused with BEING CHOSEN. Many are called few are chosen. And even this may be only in relation to having been chosen for a special set of works, a special dispensation of grace for a service to God, etc.

Calvinists therefore kill their own destiny by assuming they are CHOSEN when the Gift of Grace is actually the INVITATION into covenant.

And no man has the same covenant with God. Each is required of differently, as each has been given differently.
 

JoJoRoss

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[SIZE=medium]Did I say FREE WILL? No.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]How do I will? How do I know? OF COURSE God has drawn you to him, and his Son. But how does it work, this drawing? No man knows. He just wills.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]I am sorry Nothead but it is DRAG. Look at this Greek word throughout the whole NT and it is used as drag. GOD DRAGS US TO HIM AND HIS SON.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Not IS ontologically, but AFTER the will of the Father, just as yours is and mine is, IF we do not take the Bribe.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]"For OF HIM, and THROUGH HIM, and TO HIM, are ALL THINGS: to Whom be glory for ever. Amen" [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt](Rom. 11:36).[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] Can you see that even that choice we make is under the ALL THINGS?? Glorify God sir.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Quote[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]How do we love God?:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]"We love Him [/SIZE][God] because He FIRST LOVED US" (I John 4:19).
[SIZE=medium]And?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]AND??? Can’t you see? How do we love God? By our own will without a cause? No! He loved us first (CAUSE)! That is WHY we love HIM (EFFECT).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]It is not either/or, but BOTH. And how it works YOU DON'T KNOW, clay pot. So then you just MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS and will away. To the best you can to the ideal, which is to will the will of YHWH ELOHIM, sir.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]When you find this bible truth, you don’t stop willing. You rest in the fact that God gots your back. It is very humbling to see what you are and what GOD is. Thank ELOHIM that He is the Potter and I am the CLAY POT. You should read Romans 9:20 again my man: Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]You are quite the Calvinist whether you follow him directly or not. His paradigms taint the Baptists to the Reformed. And everyone in between. Saying you HAVE NO WILL.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]What kinda poo you been making your diet, sir?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Haha the poo I am eating is the Word of God. I am not a Calvinist due to the fact that according to scripture, God doesn’t create someone just to burn them in “Hell” forever. Tradition of men will never dupe the pure Word of God. Gods WILL will ALWAYS stand: 1 Tim 2:4-[/SIZE]WHO WILL have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
[SIZE=medium]Yes, but again you don't know how the mechanism works. So you just go on WILLING YOUR will, the one which NO ONE ELSE HAS, and do this giving credit to God and his blessing OF your will, also praying for MORE BLESSEDNESS of your will in order that it NOT be hampered in the future.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]"Lead me not into temptation." The sordid prayer a CALVINIST never prays.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Again, once you see this bible truth, YOU WILL NOT see it the way you see it now. I pray all day every day for GODS WILL BE DONE in my life. Again, the bible says to pray to God. So that is what I do. God changes the heart and mind. You have not seen this truth yet. So you are still using your carnal mind on this one Nothead. Read Romans 9 again please. YTour asking this question: [/SIZE][SIZE=small]19 [/SIZE]Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? [SIZE=12pt]PRAY for Gods Truth![/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]But you are to choose to LOVE GOD with all of your heart soul and might. Great Command affirmed by Jesus in Mk 12 to be YOUR first command. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Key. To all Calvinistic perverted mind-sets.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]YES! We are to choose to LOVE GOD. BUT how do we love God nothead? "We love Him [God] because He FIRST LOVED US" ([/SIZE][SIZE=medium]I John 4:19[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Quote[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]God does hear prayer. God answers prayer. It’s all part of His Will.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Duh.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Are you sure about that? I think I need to say “DUH” to you sir.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Did not God give you your own nephesh, or SOUL which is yours alone? 'Cmon now, are you born yesterday?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]"The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, IS FROM THE LORD" [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt](Prov. 16:1). [Regardless of the proper translation of the first half of this verse, the second half is emphatically] "…FROM THE LORD."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]And…[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]"And ALL THINGS ARE OF GOD…" [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt](II Cor. 5:18).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]That soul of yours is Gods nothead.[/SIZE]


You have me in a false category. I never said FREE WILL. Repeat.
[SIZE=12pt]Oh but you do mean that nothead. You think you have done all the godly things in your life…you haven’t: [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]"For it is GOD which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt](Phil. 2:13).[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]You must understand Paul's position. He was blessed with NO DESERVEDNESS in spite of his participation in the persecution of the saints. Struck blind IN SPITE of his opposite path...[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]...knowing now the pure blessedness of undeserved blessedness, now you get the picture?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Like the prodigal son, does this NEGATE all efforts of the good son at all? "All I have is yours." No. The will efforts of the good son will not go unrewarded.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Don't even think it. Rewards are my hope and I don't say God just did it. WE did it. Of course. "Well done my good and faithful servant." You think he was talking to HIMSELF, sir?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Huh? Huh?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Let me give an example of this same Paul who WILLS with all of his might now to love God with the Shema race, the race of athletes he analogizes to his own life...[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]...willing more than even his peers to do the will of God, both annointed will and self-propelled will, ALL OF HIS MIGHT, mind and soul.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Paul ran the Shema race, in other words. And finished with a kick to the end.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Romans 3:11-There is none that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God.Paul def wasn’t choosing God when he was killing new Christians. God came down and intervened. This is a picture perfect example how God works in ALL of our lives. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]You have this ongoing diatribe against the notion of FREE WILL. I never touted it. I never said it.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Oh but you do sir. You are screaming it throughout your rebuttals. Still thinking carnally on this one NOT. Seek Gods Truth.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]But your WILL to love God is required of you. So do it. And don't second guess yourself, saying it is God only. DO IT. Shema, God's first and Greatest Command.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Upon which all the Law and the Prophets hang.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I 100% agree with you. BUT again: "We love Him [/SIZE][SIZE=medium][God] because He FIRST LOVED US"[/SIZE] ([SIZE=medium]I John 4:19[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]).[/SIZE]

I pray to God everyday thanking Him for His love...do you?


Gods Peace,
JoJo
 

nothead

New Member
Apr 2, 2014
447
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I am sorry Nothead but it is DRAG. Look at this Greek word throughout the whole NT and it is used as drag. GOD DRAGS US TO HIM AND HIS SON.
Yeah that makes sense. Why 99% don't love God. They were DRAGGED to God. Em.



"For OF HIM, and THROUGH HIM, and TO HIM, are ALL THINGS: to Whom be glory for ever. Amen" (Rom. 11:36). Can you see that even that choice we make is under the ALL THINGS?? Glorify God sir.


Why? HE didn't make me. HE made me diss him. Just as HE made me diss you. I am a disser not a glorifier. I diss. God made me diss. And I diss you to de max...

AND??? Can’t you see? How do we love God? By our own will without a cause? No! He loved us first (CAUSE)! That is WHY we love HIM (EFFECT).
What do you think, God made YOU YOU with your own nephesh...this is pretty basic stuff you missing out on with your own gnostic paradigm sir.



When you find this bible truth, you don’t stop willing. You rest in the fact that God gots your back. It is very humbling to see what you are and what GOD is. Thank ELOHIM that He is the Potter and I am the CLAY POT. You should read Romans 9:20 again my man: Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
You think you got the rev but it ain't the Jewish rev at all. Paul wasn't no Calvinist or reformed and certainly wasn't an absolute determinist. Every man has his own nephesh to do and to will God's will. You second guess yourself into oblivion. God determines yes, but we have no idea WHAT or HOW or WHY or ANYTHING about it, other than God does what He does.

YOUR JOB if you so take this mission is to MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS and do Shema, to the best of your ability. NOT to say, God does it, I don't, glory be to God.

What hogwash. God MADE Calvin murder Michael Servetus? How did He do that, sir?

Haha the poo I am eating is the Word of God. I am not a Calvinist due to the fact that according to scripture, God doesn’t create someone just to burn them in “Hell” forever. Tradition of men will never dupe the pure Word of God. Gods WILL will ALWAYS stand: 1 Tim 2:4-WHO WILL have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Oh you one of them genius Universalists. Cogs in the machine all gwine to hebbin.' Pardon me while I puke.




Again, once you see this bible truth, YOU WILL NOT see it the way you see it now. I pray all day every day for GODS WILL BE DONE in my life. Again, the bible says to pray to God. So that is what I do. God changes the heart and mind. You have not seen this truth yet. So you are still using your carnal mind on this one Nothead. Read Romans 9 again please. YTour asking this question: 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? PRAY for Gods Truth!
What if He wants me to fail? What if He wants me to MEGA-fail? UBER fail? Fall on me face and cry me momma fail? What choice do I have, anyway? You've overlayed the ideal will of God to be His sovereign will. Two different things. And no man can know END GAME intent.

So what are you doing thinking about it? MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS and do Shema. That's it, dude. How scriptural is this Command? Mk 12 your first one, yeah baby.

Baby drinking milk that is. You revelated yourself into an intellectual corner, sir. And everyone is going to heaven yeah baby. Like where is THIS in the Bible, sir?

YES! We are to choose to LOVE GOD. BUT how do we love God nothead? "We love Him [God] because He FIRST LOVED US" (I John 4:19).
Know He first determined us to love Him after he determined to love us in space and time, by your conception, buh.



Are you sure about that? I think I need to say “DUH” to you sir.

Like spitting, duh and buh back on yo' face big time and my daddy kick yo' daddy's behind all the way to Tok ey oh.

"The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, IS FROM THE LORD" (Prov. 16:1). [Regardless of the proper translation of the first half of this verse, the second half is emphatically] "…FROM THE LORD."
And…

"And ALL THINGS ARE OF GOD…" (II Cor. 5:18).

That soul of yours is Gods nothead.
Lecturing the lecturer babe?


Oh but you do mean that nothead. You think you have done all the godly things in your life…you haven’t: "For it is GOD which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure (Phil. 2:13).
No, IF He says "Well done my good and faithful servant," I will know His blessing and no one else, most certainly Him who holds all glory.

He ain't talking to Himself in other words. He is talking to me and me alone. Amen. Boy Howdy how you reformed UNIVERSALITS get everything bassackwerds...



Romans 3:11-There is none that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God.Paul def wasn’t choosing God when he was killing new Christians. God came down and intervened. This is a picture perfect example how God works in ALL of our lives.
A relative statement taken absolutely. Nice going. NOT ONE THING you ever did was good, ANYTHING you did was good, God did it not you. Genius, sir. I mean, God.




 

JoJoRoss

New Member
Apr 4, 2014
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[SIZE=12pt]Yeah that makes sense. Why 99% don't love God. They were DRAGGED to God. Em. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Again let the Word of God cut you like a sword: [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Romans 3:10-12 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]As it is written:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]“There is none righteous, no, not one;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]There is none who understands;[/SIZE]
There is none who seeks after God.
[SIZE=medium]They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;[/SIZE]
There is none who does good, no, not one.”


[SIZE=12pt]Why? HE didn't make me. HE made me diss him. Just as HE made me diss you. I am a disser not a glorifier. I diss. God made me diss. And I diss you to de max...[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ya God does that too: Romans 9:18-[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]The scriptures DO NOT contradict-YOU DO! Soften your heart. This is all part of Gods Will that I am showing you these verses. Soften you heart my friend.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]What do you think, God made YOU YOU with your own nephesh...this is pretty basic stuff you missing out on with your own gnostic paradigm sir.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Yes?: Gen 2:7-[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]God did it right?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]You think you got the rev but it ain't the Jewish rev at all. Paul wasn't no Calvinist or reformed and certainly wasn't an absolute determinist. Every man has his own nephesh to do and to will God's will. You second guess yourself into oblivion. God determines yes, but we have no idea WHAT or HOW or WHY or ANYTHING about it, other than God does what He does.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]YOUR JOB if you so take this mission is to MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS and do Shema, to the best of your ability. NOT to say, God does it, I don't, glory be to God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]What hogwash. God MADE Calvin murder Michael Servetus? How did He do that, sir?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]It’s the Word of God that I am rev about? It is a great peace that what I do is all of God. You say God does it all but you don’t believe it. I pray tell you will someday. To Gods Glory! [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Oh you one of them genius Universalists. Cogs in the machine all gwine to hebbin.' Pardon me while I puke.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]You can call me whatever fleshly man made word you want buddy. I just believe in the Word of God:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Acts 3:21-Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]What if He wants me to fail? What if He wants me to MEGA-fail? UBER fail? Fall on me face and cry me momma fail? What choice do I have, anyway? You've overlayed the ideal will of God to be His sovereign will. Two different things. And no man can know END GAME intent.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]So what are you doing thinking about it? MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS and do Shema. That's it, dude. How scriptural is this Command? Mk 12 your first one, yeah baby.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Baby drinking milk that is. You revelated yourself into an intellectual corner, sir. And everyone is going to heaven yeah baby. Like where is THIS in the Bible, sir?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Haha your funny man. Again please read Romans Ch. 9. PLEASE! Pray about it, ponder.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Where in the bible. Let’s see:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11.5pt]"God was Christ reconciling THE WORLD to Himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors as though God were making His appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: be reconciled to God." (2 Cor. 5:19, 20)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11.5pt]There it is. But this one passage from the God breathed scripture will do it for you right?[/SIZE]


[SIZE=12pt]Know He first determined us to love Him after he determined to love us in space and time, by your conception, buh.[/SIZE]
NO ONE SEEKS AFTER GOD (Romans 3:10-12)!

[SIZE=12pt]Like spitting, duh and buh back on yo' face big time and my daddy kick yo' daddy's behind all the way to Tok ey oh.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Haha its true though! I am reading from Romans ch. 9 but you are not believing it![/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Lecturing the lecturer babe? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Not lecturing anyone my man. Just putting down Gods Word on this forum. But who believed my report?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]No, IF He says "Well done my good and faithful servant," I will know His blessing and no one else, most certainly Him who holds all glory.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]He ain't talking to Himself in other words. He is talking to me and me alone. Amen. Boy Howdy how you reformed UNIVERSALITS get everything bassackwerds...[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]How do we get the faith/belief in Jesus?: [/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt]For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ [Christ not us] not only to BELIEVE in him[/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt], but also to suffer for him, (Philip 1:29).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]A relative statement taken absolutely. Nice going. NOT ONE THING you ever did was good, ANYTHING you did was good, God did it not you. Genius, sir. I mean, God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Read this verses. Again, pray and ponder:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]John 15:5- I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Be humble friend. The only way to Gods truth is being humble:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9.5pt]Jeremiah 2:19[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove thee[/SIZE]

Gods peace,
JoJo
 

nothead

New Member
Apr 2, 2014
447
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[SIZE=12pt]Again let the Word of God cut you like a sword: [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Romans 3:10-12 [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]As it is written:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]“There is none righteous, no, not one;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;[/SIZE]
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
This scripture is actually meant to cut your to your complacent heart, yet the first thing YOUR ILK would say, is "God made me thus, so what rebuke HAS HE??"

Of course you are responsible, and if only God does it, you are not...God in fact made you with the choices to choose....something or other, good or bad in some sense or other. Whether FREE will or not, whether your will is HINDERED or not, part of the unique nephesh God gave you is to desire and will....WHAT you will.

Like I said, and actually like Paul said, the formed thing does not know how it all comes together. But YOUR responsibility is to want to love God and to LOVE GOD. Shema.

Not to try to figure it out. Listen I grew up pondering the Reformed take on reality. Decades ago I rejected it. But when Shema came to me as revelation, I REALLY rejected it.




[SIZE=12pt]Ya God does that too: Romans 9:18-[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]The scriptures DO NOT contradict-YOU DO! Soften your heart. This is all part of Gods Will that I am showing you these verses. Soften you heart my friend.[/SIZE]
Why you talkin to me then? Talk to God, herr nirvana man. Maybe HE will impress upon me you nirvana, man.



[SIZE=12pt]Yes?: Gen 2:7-[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]God did it right?[/SIZE]
Yeah God did it. Made you your own person. Wow, that's the story of Adam and Eve...made Adam a man willing to will what he, Adam will will. Whoa you got it, I think. Gave him the onliest thing not to do, eat of that there fruit.

And guess what Adam did. God did not do it, no sense of this, sir. Adam did it. Listened to that woman. Just as every yayhoo who ever got tempted by a woman has done.

It’s the Word of God that I am rev about? It is a great peace that what I do is all of God. You say God does it all but you don’t believe it. I pray tell you will someday. To Gods Glory!
Your peace is really complacency. No modern reformed FEARS God. Passe right?

[SIZE=12pt]You can call me whatever fleshly man made word you want buddy. I just believe in the Word of God:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Acts 3:21-Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.[/SIZE]

Haha your funny man. Again please read Romans Ch. 9. PLEASE! Pray about it, ponder.
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
I pondered your paradigm back in the eightys. It did not make sense then and it makes no common sense now. Thanks but please hark your snake oil somewhere's else.

Not where warriors tend to roost. Stay in the playpen. Slobber on your toys. That's it. Have fun doin' it. Smile and laugh. I love you, babe.



[SIZE=12pt]Where in the bible. Let’s see:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11.5pt]"God was Christ reconciling THE WORLD to Himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors as though God were making His appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: be reconciled to God." (2 Cor. 5:19, 20)[/SIZE]
By you own paradigm, you talkin' again to the wrong one. Talk to God, you will do better. I got no will, remember? I can't do nothing, 'cept rant and rave at you. And God made me do it.

No the devil. One of them guys at least. Me I am not me or I. Have no will of me own. Lobot, a robot with a frontal lobotomy.

No that's YOU, babe. Baby lobot with a flontal lobotomy. Must be Chinese too.




There it is. But this one passage from the God breathed scripture will do it for you right?
That one went right over me head. Me nothead say it clear.


NO ONE SEEKS AFTER GOD (Romans 3:10-12)!
This is for your conscience to get seared but how can mine if it is not me own? God owns it? Operates it? Where is me then? Passive observer? Then I don't need to repent, sir...

...God does.




Haha its true though! I am reading from Romans ch. 9 but you are not believing it!

You reading Rom 9 like you got no mind of your own. Guess what. No one can buy it. No one owns it. God gave it to you to make of it what you will. He hinders or draws for YOUR intents and purposes...but you decide. For yourself, of course, not for Tom Dick or Harry. Or Harrietta. Or Johnny-come-lately.

God tells you to DO THIS and NOT DO THAT for a reason. HE ain't gonna do it or not do it. YOU gonna either do it or not. And what would this be?

How should I know? I ain't you and you ain't me. Mind ye own business. What have I been telling you anyhow?



Not lecturing anyone my man. Just putting down Gods Word on this forum. But who believed my report?
Not anyone with any sense. Maybe the gullible. Keep trying. Some people will give you money or whatever you after.

[SIZE=12pt]How do we get the faith/belief in Jesus?: [/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt]For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ [Christ not us] not only to BELIEVE in him[/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt], but also to suffer for him, (Philip 1:29).[/SIZE]
How do you know? Maybe He ain't done hardening me heart. It beats, is all I know.

Nothead too dumb to know if his own heart is hard or soft. You say make it soft and then say only God does it. Boo hoo. Can't understand a smidgen of what you say, sir.

Contradictory is it anyhow. Like saying to eat and poo at the same time. Some can but why?




[SIZE=medium]Read this verses. Again, pray and ponder:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]John 15:5- I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.[/SIZE]
This is actually a pentecostal verse.

For without faith and the Spirit of God the supernatural fruit of the Spirit will not manifest. See how Reformed perverts the plain text.


Be humble friend. The only way to Gods truth is being humble:
No TRYING to do Shema on a daily basis will bring humble. Not considering you convoluted paradigm. Yes, the verses you mention are to MAKE you humble. But it takes a sense of responsibility to do so.

Calvinists want it both ways. Say we are responsible when God does all things. Hey I wasn't born yestiddy.





[SIZE=9.5pt]Jeremiah 2:19[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove thee[/SIZE]
Yeah, anything which falls short of Shema to love God with all, is actually sin. Backsliding. Do wrong. Bad. And I will do these in the future as you will.
 

DPMartin

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2014
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nothead said:
Calvinists stop there, affirming they themselves are chosen. There is however a difference in STARTING Covenant and DOING and FINISHING Covenant.

As with most mainstreamers, being chosen INTO COVENANT isn't the same thing as being sovereignly determined TO GO TO HEAVEN.

In other words, Calvinists get CALLED confused with BEING CHOSEN. Many are called few are chosen. And even this may be only in relation to having been chosen for a special set of works, a special dispensation of grace for a service to God, etc.

Calvinists therefore kill their own destiny by assuming they are CHOSEN when the Gift of Grace is actually the INVITATION into covenant.

And no man has the same covenant with God. Each is required of differently, as each has been given differently.

Wow nothead you’ve really have chosen a accurate user name. I’m not a Calvinist nor do I really care about Calvinism unless I am talking to a Calvinist of which your not. So you views on Calvinism are most likely miss-informing and useless.

And since you are an expert on "into Heaven" where is it?

Abraham was chosen, the Lord God came to him, didn’t he? And God made a covenant with him, of which was expounded on and partially fulfilled during the days of Moses in which those people, the Children of Israel didn’t chose God. God already chose them through Abraham, didn’t He?
 
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