freewill is bogus

[DPMartin]

the reason for saying this, it dawned on me when explaining the difference of choice and will that there is no freewill as advertised in philosophy corners. its some thing I have been aware of, but never found the explanation for.


the reality that God can bring anyone to his knees is proof enough. and many kings presidents dictators and other manipulators of the public's perception of themselves know this. freewill serves as a secular thought and feel good that one has control over one's self. nope not so, for one, no one escapes what's in their hearts and will do it should the opportunity presents itself that satisfies the fear of consequences. and two, one may not be willing to do some thing, but again if circumstances exist they would do.


the same people that was laying palms down at the feet of Christ was a week later crying hang him hang him.

here's another one, before 9/11 what was the general US public's willingness toward hostilities of other nations, then what was their willingness on 9/12?

and its obvious what men have the will do in certain circumstances, and its not freely. if one is willing under certain circumstances, then the circumstances dictate what a man will do. and there is no freedom in that is there?

 

[amadeus]

In the following verse I find the sum total of what men have called free will:

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15

 

[Angelina]

I agree amadeus. I think the key word here is choose. We have a choice based on what we know is good and what is not good or acceptable to God and yes sometimes that means we are choosing to do right by God and by others which kinda brings us in line with his will...

 

[amadeus]

I agree amadeus. I think the key word here is choose. We have a choice based on what we know is good and what is not good or acceptable to God and yes sometimes that means we are choosing to do right by God and by others which kinda brings us in line with his will...

Amen!

 

[ScottA]

We have all the free will we can stack on the head of a pin - or....I should say, "In the twinkling of an eye."

We spend our whole lives discovering who we are, while all along, the Great "I Am", in "I am" terms has already determined who we are in "we are" terms...and this life is just us being who we are and doing what we will do.

It is the illusion of time that gives us the illusion of daily freewill - we are who we are. And all of the counseling to "hold out" and to "do the will of God", is just God's way of reminding us to be who we are, and to be true to ourselves.

 

[Dcopymope]

"freewill is bogus"

You say this as you tag every post with the following scripture:

(Matthew 7:6) "¶ Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

Would Jesus command us not to "cast our pearls before swine" if we didn't have the free will to do so? How is this not an oxymoron? Are you saying that God wasted his time creating a bunch of automatons?

 

[Angelina]

I kinda think that it is an oxymoron in Christ but those without Christ ~ we think that perhaps, we are free to will and to act but everything we do whether believer or not is subject within the bounds of good and evil or/and life and death...

 

[DPMartin]

In the following verse I find the sum total of what men have called free will:

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15

but its not freewill, they Israel had just experienced the taking a good percentage of the land promised them. and just who in that crowd was going t say otherwise. these people were already chosen.

they weren't willing to serve God in the desert until God make them willing, and they were made willing to think about leaving Egypt and were eventually forced to leave Egypt, and that influence continued until when:


Jdg 2:6 And when Joshua had let the people go, the children of Israel went every man unto his inheritance to possess the land. 7 And the people served the LORD all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders that outlived Joshua, who had seen all the great works of the LORD, that he did for Israel. 8 And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the LORD, died, being an hundred and ten years old. 9 And they buried him in the border of his inheritance in Timnathheres, in the mount of Ephraim, on the north side of the hill Gaash. 10 And also all that generation were gathered unto their fathers: and there arose another generation after them, which knew not the LORD, nor yet the works which he had done for Israel. 11 And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim: 12 And they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods, of the gods of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the LORD to anger. 13 And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth.


hence no sooner did Joshua die they were at what was in their hearts, which is their own judgement of what is good for themselves. and no one escapes their hearts. but from Moses through Joshua they were made to be willing to do what they would not do without fear of God. just as those you would see in churches, it in their own judgement that it benefits them to be there, but it was more beneficial for the fulfillments of what's in their hearts to be some where else they would be there.

when the sun is shining and the weather's nice, men behave as they are, when the hurricane comes they hunker down or die.

I do believe Psalm 107 says it plainly. and just because you can chose coke or pepsi doesn't mean you have choice.

Adam and Eve made the choice of the life you receive when you come into the world, and there is no other life man can have that is the result of man's choice. just because you might be able chose the prison cell you're in, doesn't mean you can chose to get out of prison. you didn't chose it, dust to dust and ashes to ashes was chosen for you. (and to get technical it was God who said man could have it) The Life of Christ is God's choice for you, which is really the restoration to the Life originally given man that was lost.

and there is no case where anyone chose God, (except for modern Christians that say they do) you forget the Israelites where long chosen before Joshua and his contemporaries were born.

no one comes to Christ unless God draws him, and that is the what Jesus says. hence if you are chosen and you are not willing then you can, and will be made willing.

again freewill is bogus a delusion of self importance, and self control.

 

[Marymog]

the reason for saying this, it dawned on me when explaining the difference of choice and will that there is no freewill as advertised in philosophy corners. its some thing I have been aware of, but never found the explanation for.

the reality that God can bring anyone to his knees is proof enough. and many kings presidents dictators and other manipulators of the public's perception of themselves know this. freewill serves as a secular thought and feel good that one has control over one's self. nope not so, for one, no one escapes what's in their hearts and will do it should the opportunity presents itself that satisfies the fear of consequences. and two, one may not be willing to do some thing, but again if circumstances exist they would do.

the same people that was laying palms down at the feet of Christ was a week later crying hang him hang him.

here's another one, before 9/11 what was the general US public's willingness toward hostilities of other nations, then what was their willingness on 9/12?

and its obvious what men have the will do in certain circumstances, and its not freely. if one is willing under certain circumstances, then the circumstances dictate what a man will do. and there is no freedom in that is there?

Hi,

Did God ALLOW you to write this?

Or was it your choice?

IHS....Mary

 

[FHII]

I agree with DP. people believe they have free will because they really do have dilemmas, choices to make along with problems, pain and victories. But God has shown he can step in at anytime. He said he declared (not just knew, but declared) the end from the beginning. We are told he chose us and we did not chose him. Yet, we are the ones who have to go through with this... Mess...

Yet... What does this knowledge do for us? Knowing God foreordained our actions, what do we do?

The answer is nothing. We are still to contend for the faith.

 

[amadeus]

@DPMartin

Hey I'm not arguing with you. I used the word "freewill" because you used it. What we have is the choice of serving God or not. If someone wants to call that freewill, that's OK with me.

 

[bbyrd009]

@DPMartin

Hey I'm not arguing with you. I used the word "freewill" because you used it. What we have is the choice of serving God or not. If someone wants to call that freewill, that's OK with me.

if there is no free will, then there is no choice, seems to me.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Hi,

Did God ALLOW you to write this?

Or was it your choice?

IHS....Mary

Curious, did Peter have freewill when he denied Jesus three times?

Luke 22:31-34 KJV
[31] And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: [32] But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. [33] And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death. [34] And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.

 

[DPMartin]

I agree with DP. people believe they have free will because they really do have dilemmas, choices to make along with problems, pain and victories. But God has shown he can step in at anytime. He said he declared (not just knew, but declared) the end from the beginning. We are told he chose us and we did not chose him. Yet, we are the ones who have to go through with this... Mess...

Yet... What does this knowledge do for us? Knowing God foreordained our actions, what do we do?

The answer is nothing. We are still to contend for the faith.

very well said.

 

[Marymog]

Curious, did Peter have freewill when he denied Jesus three times?

Luke 22:31-34 KJV
[31] And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: [32] But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. [33] And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death. [34] And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.

Did God ALLOW you to write this?

Or was it your choice?

 

[amadeus]

if there is no free will, then there is no choice, seems to me.

Just keep on smiling!

 

[DPMartin]

Hi,

Did God ALLOW you to write this?

Or was it your choice?

IHS....Mary

what am I talking about here whether or not you can pick your nose or not in public? you can't be serious.

the only choice other than God's choice is death, you can pick your nose or not pick your nose in public the life you received being born into the world will result in the same. you can be mr wonderful and a supper dad and mr community or you can be a rancid criminal of the worst kind and you still didn't choice the life your received in the flesh, and the result is the same for mr wonderful or the criminal. and freewillers think to choice their gods to meet their own judgement of what a god ought to be, if they think there be a god.

and this is the facts according to the Beloved Son of God who is salvation:

Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

so coke and pepsi so what, God chose whether or not such things could exist or not, and that they would be within your reach or not.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Did God ALLOW you to write this?

Or was it your choice?

It is an interesting question, Mary. One I don't know the answer to. I am a writer, or use to be. I use to write stuff not suitable for children, then lesions in my brain shut down my ability to focus or process thoughts. Whenever I tried; for years...I hit a wall. I beat this wall everyday, but couldn't get through. The only time I can focus or think clearly now is when I am focused on Him. The past couple of days I have been ate up with bitterness. Distracted. It has been a long time since I have felt such distance from Him. In this state, depressed and irritated...I can't read His word or hardly make sense of simple thoughts. So you tell me: who opens up His word for understanding? Who shuts us down when we are not going in the right direction, but rather returning to our old ways? Who decides if you take your next breath? Who decides if you are productive, or laid flat on your back?

Going to spend time with my family; obviously...it is His choice.

 

[DPMartin]

@DPMartin

Hey I'm not arguing with you. I used the word "freewill" because you used it. What we have is the choice of serving God or not. If someone wants to call that freewill, that's OK with me.

nope not really, again even in the group of the chosen (Israelites) in your example, they were made willing and actually not of their own choosing you are looking at one incident but not what brought the Israelis to that place and why and how. and none of it was of their own doing or choosing and the circumstances set by God made them willing. no different then what happens to us in our relationship with the power of God.

and just because something is "OK" with you, doesn't make it true does it?

 

[amadeus]

nope not really, again even in the group of the chosen (Israelites) in your example, they were made willing and actually not of their own choosing you are looking at one incident but not what brought the Israelis to that place and why and how. and none of it was of their own doing or choosing and the circumstances set by God made them willing. no different then what happens to us in our relationship with the power of God.

and just because something is "OK" with you, doesn't make it true does it?

I really thought we were simply not communicating, but it does seem that we disagree. Only God gives the increase