freewill? na

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DPMartin

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The concept of “freewill” in the case of choosing God is a fallacy.


The main proof in the case of the Lord God and who is and isn’t saved in relationship to “freewill” is that in the Kingdom of God there is no “freewill” only God’s will.

Also, the commandment was the choice or judgement of God for Adam and Eve that they were to execute, but the judgement executed in the garden was not of God, it was of the serpent. Hence the serpent’s choice for Adam and Eve.

hence its the belief and trust that is required, to live or die.

And John explains the concept of born again here in his first chapter:

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


Hence, one doesn’t choose God, God chooses His own. Also note that Jesus is the Son of God telling you the Life of the Son of God in John 5:30

Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
 

DPMartin

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I don't think you've understood the Atonement DPM.
what does atonement have to do with whether or not "freewill" is true or not?

you didn't choose atonement, the Lord God chose it for you. heck He chose whether or not He would accept atonement. and on top of that He chose that which is of Himself as the only acceptable atonement. because to restore you to the Life that was lost in the garden was of Him:

Luk 3:38 " Adam, which was the son of God."

the Creator and Judge choses what is good and evil for you, not you.
 

Helen

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The concept of “freewill” in the case of choosing God is a fallacy.


The main proof in the case of the Lord God and who is and isn’t saved in relationship to “freewill” is that in the Kingdom of God there is no “freewill” only God’s will.

Also, the commandment was the choice or judgement of God for Adam and Eve that they were to execute, but the judgement executed in the garden was not of God, it was of the serpent. Hence the serpent’s choice for Adam and Eve.

hence its the belief and trust that is required, to live or die.

And John explains the concept of born again here in his first chapter:

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


Hence, one doesn’t choose God, God chooses His own. Also note that Jesus is the Son of God telling you the Life of the Son of God in John 5:30

Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.


As I see it…God Himself gave us freewill ( within the great circle of His will…) so that He would have a Bride that chose Him.

if there is no area of free will , then He ends up with robots …and love , is just a joke!

why are we asked to “love God freely” if we have no freewill.
That’s crazy.
God is not a ‘double minded ‘.
 
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DPMartin

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As I see it…God Himself gave us freewill ( within the great circle of His will…) so that He would have a Bride that chose Him.

if there is no area of free will , then He ends up with robots …and love is a joke!

but its not about how you see it, is it? its about how the Lord God sees it. Noah was the tenth a chosen of God and Abraham was the tenth after Noah a chosen of God neither had a choice did they? again there is no free will in the Kingdom of Heaven. no one judges for themselves what is good and evil, all is according to God's Judgement.

choosing apples and oranges is one thing, but God chooses His own, no one invites themselves to the Lord's table. no one can claim any glory in one's own choice. no one can say i am here in heaven because i choose to be. that would be an arrogance that would definitely never let you in the door in the first place.

also your definition of love in the case of the Lord God of Israel doesn't seem to be John's understanding:
1Jn 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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The concept that I somehow CHOSE GOD is nonsensical. I did not chose anyone

What I chose was to receive his gift. instead of rejecting it.

He who believes is not condemned He who does not believe is condemned already, in these words of Jesus. free will is proven.

We are saved by grace through faith. Grace is offered to all. But only those who through the work of God come to true saving faith will be saved. The rest will be condemned, Because the work of God was offered to them also. Yet they rejected him and his offer of salvation in unbelief.


As scripture says, Chose this day!!
 

DPMartin

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The concept that I somehow CHOSE GOD is nonsensical. I did not chose anyone

What I chose was to receive his gift. instead of rejecting it.

He who believes is not condemned He who does not believe is condemned already, in these words of Jesus. free will is proven.

We are saved by grace through faith. Grace is offered to all. But only those who through the work of God come to true saving faith will be saved. The rest will be condemned, Because the work of God was offered to them also. Yet they rejected him and his offer of salvation in unbelief.


As scripture says, Chose this day!!

well i didn't find "Chose this day" (KJV) anywhere in scripture, also you didn't chose to receive nor did you chose to believe. you responded to revelation. revelation makes the believer, and God choses who to reveal to and not to reveal to.

you've heard there is such thing as a car, a car is revealed to you, now you believe there is a car. Saul didn't believe squat about Jesus, then Jesus was revealed to him on the road to Damascus and now the guy we know as Paul believes. its God's revelation to whom He pleases. Peters proclamation of Jesus is the Son of God was a revaluation according to Jesus. Jesus the Son of God proclaimed in scripture and expected by the Jews didn't see Him at all as the true Messiah. revelation, a choice of God to do.


you also understand that when the Almighty tells you to chose a thing its His choice for you, right?
 

Eternally Grateful

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well i didn't find "Chose this day" (KJV) anywhere in scripture, also you didn't chose to receive nor did you chose to believe. you responded to revelation. revelation makes the believer, and God choses who to reveal to and not to reveal to.

you've heard there is such thing as a car, a car is revealed to you, now you believe there is a car. Saul didn't believe squat about Jesus, then Jesus was revealed to him on the road to Damascus and now the guy we know as Paul believes. its God's revelation to whom He pleases. Peters proclamation of Jesus is the Son of God was a revaluation according to Jesus. Jesus the Son of God proclaimed in scripture and expected by the Jews didn't see Him at all as the true Messiah. revelation, a choice of God to do.


you also understand that when the Almighty tells you to chose a thing its His choice for you, right?

We also have Jesus, Also when he looked over Jerusalem. Said how often he wanted to take them under his wing. But they were unwilling.

responded. Yes, you got it. We responded to revelation. Some respond in faith. Some respond in unbelief. But everyone responds.

As for your last paragraph. Please read what I said. You act as if I just conjured up this faith on my own. Which is a false concept. I never made any such statement.
 

quietthinker

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what does atonement have to do with whether or not "freewill" is true or not?

you didn't choose atonement, the Lord God chose it for you. heck He chose whether or not He would accept atonement. and on top of that He chose that which is of Himself as the only acceptable atonement. because to restore you to the Life that was lost in the garden was of Him:

Luk 3:38 " Adam, which was the son of God."

the Creator and Judge choses what is good and evil for you, not you.
It's like this DPM, as long as we hunker down and are intent on our own opinion, that's the opinion we will be stuck with, ie we close ourselves off to further revelation.
 

quietthinker

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The Atonement is God's revelation of his character.....He chose to die rather than coerce.....rather than insist everyone dances to his tune.
 
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DPMartin

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We also have Jesus, Also when he looked over Jerusalem. Said how often he wanted to take them under his wing. But they were unwilling.

responded. Yes, you got it. We responded to revelation. Some respond in faith. Some respond in unbelief. But everyone responds.
.
na, the Word of God which is God to anyone or anything not God was right there in the flesh and they didn't know it. their whole culture and society was establish by the Word of God documented by the hand of Moses and they still didn't recognize Him.

and make no misstake should reveal Himself as He is all shall believe He is God and there is a God.

as Jesus explains:
The Purpose of the Parables
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.


gee, would that be a deliberate act of God? thing is God really does withhold information from men.
 

DPMartin

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The Atonement is God's revelation of his character.....He chose to die rather than coerce.....rather than insist everyone dances to his tune.

if you want to live the Life of Christ, you will dance with bells on, to the Father's tune, Jesus did, who are you to say you are better then that.

and that would be according to the Father's will and satisfaction.
 

DPMartin

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It's like this DPM, as long as we hunker down and are intent on our own opinion, that's the opinion we will be stuck with, ie we close ourselves off to further revelation.

of what, other opinions, really? you do know what opinions are like correct?

the only opinion that matters is God's opinion or better said judgement of what is good or evil or correct and incorrect. all other brain farts return to the ground.
 

Hemlock

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Joshua 24:15

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD,

choose you this day whom ye will serve;

whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
 

DPMartin

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Some people choose to say that there is no such thing as free will.

They do so out of their own free will.

nice try, that's a nada. what if someone is putting a gun to my head, or its the truth? but again, choosing oranges and apples don't apply here. this is about if one chooses God or God chooses His own.
 

Eternally Grateful

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na, the Word of God which is God to anyone or anything not God was right there in the flesh and they didn't know it. their whole culture and society was establish by the Word of God documented by the hand of Moses and they still didn't recognize Him.

and make no misstake should reveal Himself as He is all shall believe He is God and there is a God.

as Jesus explains:
The Purpose of the Parables
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.


gee, would that be a deliberate act of God? thing is God really does withhold information from men.
God does not withhold information from anyone. Thats why no one has an excuse.

He who believes is not condemned

He who does not believe is condemned already

if God withheld and did not allow people who disbelieve to not be able to see. Then they have an excuse. As a righteous judge God would have to let them go free
 

Eternally Grateful

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Joshua 24:15

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD,

choose you this day whom ye will serve;

whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Amen and thank you
 

Daniel Veler

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In order to understand God’s you must understand his Devine plan. It is written the Christ was foreordained before the creation to go to Calvary and die. All names were recorded in the book of life before the foundation of the world. How can you speak of free will if you haven’t known God’s plan?
 

DPMartin

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God does not withhold information from anyone. Thats why no one has an excuse.

He who believes is not condemned

He who does not believe is condemned already

if God withheld and did not allow people who disbelieve to not be able to see. Then they have an excuse. As a righteous judge God would have to let them go free
i just showed you where Jesus says the truth is withheld, what's wrong with you?