Fundamental belief

[aspen]

pick one fundamental belief that cannot be removed from Christianity without losing meaning of the religion.

Me: Trinity - the nature of God

 

[Helen]

Mine is the absolute assurance that God IS Love...

 

[Dcopymope]

pick one fundamental belief that cannot be removed from Christianity without losing meaning of the religion.

Me: Trinity - the nature of God

That cannot be removed? I'm sure there are plenty, but I can name one belief some consider to be 'fundamental' to Christianity that in fact can be removed, and that is God's love being unconditional. Unconditional love doesn't require faith to be saved, so I can remove any such notions and it will have no effect on any other belief Christians may consider 'fundamental'.

 

[Helen]

That cannot be removed? I'm sure there are plenty, but I can name one belief some consider to be 'fundamental' to Christianity that in fact can be removed, and that is God's love being unconditional. Unconditional love doesn't require faith to be saved, so I can remove any such notions and it will have no effect on any other belief Christians may consider 'fundamental'.

Oh, if that is what the OP was discussing...then I misunderstood it, which makes my post is obsolete...

 

[Dcopymope]

Oh, if that is what the OP was discussing...then I misunderstood it, which makes my post is obsolete...

Well, I wouldn't say it makes your post obsolete. He asked if there was any belief that can't be removed, and your post concerning God's love reminded me. Unconditional love just does not fit at all with everything God has done, is doing and will do. If unconditional love is true, then even non-believers can be saved by the Resurrection, making the gospel null and void.

 

[Helen]

Well, I wouldn't say it makes your post obsolete. He asked if there was any belief that can't be removed, and your post concerning God's love reminded me. Unconditional love just does not fit at all with everything God has done, is doing and will do. If unconditional love is true, then even non-believers can be saved by the Resurrection, making the gospel null and void.

Okay thanks for the clarification..

 

[amadeus]

The reason Jesus came:
"... I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

 

[ScottA]

Well, I wouldn't say it makes your post obsolete. He asked if there was any belief that can't be removed, and your post concerning God's love reminded me. Unconditional love just does not fit at all with everything God has done, is doing and will do. If unconditional love is true, then even non-believers can be saved by the Resurrection, making the gospel null and void.

Wow, do you ever have the wrong idea about God!

He wrote the book on everything, and then finished it before it became public. Which (since it is you who made the comment) leaves you on a page near the end, having read His purposefully riddled first chapters, not knowing the finale...and you think you have caught Him being imperfect?

You obviously don't even know that it's finished!

 

[ScottA]

pick one fundamental belief that cannot be removed from Christianity without losing meaning of the religion.

Me: Trinity - the nature of God

"It is written."

 

[Dcopymope]

Wow, do you ever have the wrong idea about God!

He wrote the book on everything, and then finished it before it became public. Which (since it is you who made the comment) leaves you on a page near the end, having read His purposefully riddled first chapters, not knowing the finale...and you think you have caught Him being imperfect?

You obviously don't even know that it's finished!

.........................It amazes me how someone can speak in riddles even when they think they aren't.....or are you? What exactly are you on about anyway with this straw man clap trap? "I have it wrong", or "I don't understand the spiritual things of God" are the typical responses I get from people who can't refute my arguments. Where in the blue freaking hell did I ever say or even imply that "I caught him being imperfect"? What the hell does that even mean?

 

[ScottA]

.........................It amazes me how someone can speak in riddles even when they think they aren't.....or are you? What exactly are you on about anyway with this straw man clap trap? "I have it wrong", or "I don't understand the spiritual things of God" are the typical responses I get from people who can't refute my arguments. Where in the blue freaking hell did I ever say or even imply that "I caught him being imperfect"? What the hell does that even mean?

Just as I said... You presented the unconditional love of God as false or as irony...when you don't even have all the information, just part of your own little sliver of history - His story. Now that is irony.

 

[Dcopymope]

Just as I said... You presented the unconditional love of God as false or as irony...when you don't even have all the information, just part of your own little sliver of history - His story. Now that is irony.

I have the word of God that speaks nothing of "unconditional love", its all the information I need as a believer. What you have is your own vain philosophy and deceit that has nothing to do with his word.

(Psalms 5:3-6) "My voice shalt thou hear in the morning, O LORD; in the morning will I direct my prayer unto thee, and will look up. {4} For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. {5} The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. {6} Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man."

(James 4:1-4) "From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? {2} Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. {3} Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. {4} Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God."

Yeah, "unconditional love" indeed.

 

[ScottA]

I have the word of God that speaks nothing of "unconditional love", its all the information I need as a believer. What you have is your own vain philosophy and deceit that has nothing to do with his word.

Yeah, "unconditional love" indeed.

You are not making any sense.

First you mock God and say that he does not have unconditional love. Then you badmouth me for calling you on it. And then you quote two passages that do not address your grumbling.

My comment to you is...if that is how you feel - you do not know God.

 

[Dcopymope]

You are not making any sense.

First you mock God and say that he does not have unconditional love. Then you badmouth me for calling you on it. And then you quote two passages that do not address your grumbling.

My comment to you is...if that is how you feel - you do not know God.

........OK, simple question. Are there condition's set forth in the book you claim to believe in that you must adhere to in order to be saved? Its really a simple yes or no answer.

 

[101G]

pick one fundamental belief that cannot be removed from Christianity without losing meaning of the religion.

Me: Trinity - the nature of God

GINOLJC, is that PURE religion, or just religion? PURE Religion, G2356 θρησκεία threskeia (threes-kei'-a) n. ceremonial observance. James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world". Pure religion is undefiled, and it's unspotted from the world.

now religion, Acts 17:22 "Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefiore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you".

here the word "superstitious " "too religious", is G1174 δεισιδαιμονέστερος deisidaimonesteros (dei-siy-d̮ai-mo-ne'-ste-ros) adj.
more religious than others. it's the compound of a derivative of the base of G1169 and G1142. see below,

G1169 δειλός deilos (d̮ei-los') adj.
1. timid.
2. (by implication) faithless.
from deos “dread”
KJV: fearful

G1142 δαίμων daimon (d̮ai'-mōn) n.
a demon or supernatural spirit (of a bad nature).
from daio “to distribute fortunes”
KJV: devil

so really, what are some Christians practicing? faithless, fearful, timid, or to distribute fortunes. some are, not all, are just like these Athenian citizens in the apostle Paul day, "too religious", because they don't know the truth. yes, to distribute fortunes, just about more Christian, not all, read their horoscope daily, ......... more than worldly people do. horoscope... get it, Horror - scope, seeing through demon or supernatural spirit eyes as the definition above states. most Christian live their lives, "too religious" hoping that everything will be all right, instead of walking by faith in assurance. can't blame anyone. I have heard ministers say, "if it be thy will Lord". they didn't know his will, just a cover if it don't work, (to distribute fortunes), just as the definition above states. ok, I'm not playing games here, just telling it like it is. some Christians are "too religious" and they run and kneel in front of statue praying, hoping that their Love one recover or improve. or some Christians are "too religious" and go into a closet and pray to a human man, for forgiveness. or you got some that are "too religious" to call Jesus God, instead, a "god". are you getting my point, but they all are right, or as the topic of these post say, "Fundamental belief". well I guess one cannot remove any of those.

those who say it's three person, well tell us who is these here, James 1:27a "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father". please tell me which one of the Person is God in this verse, because 1 Corinthians 8:6 states "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him".

One God, the Father, but God and the Father? is not the term God consist of the Father? or unless one is "too religious" and have two fathers.

Peace in Christ Jesus.

 

[ScottA]

........OK, simple question. Are there condition's set forth in the book you claim to believe in that you must adhere to in order to be saved? Its really a simple yes or no answer.

No.

 

[Dcopymope]

No.

Oh ok, so Jesus Christ died for nothing then, got it.......

 

[ScottA]

Oh ok, so Jesus Christ died for nothing then, got it.......

No. But thank you for eluding to your position and the basis for your gripe.

As I said, this is because of a misunderstanding of God and what He has done. You are obviously looking at the circumstances as if to believe that this is all rather what He is doing, rather than what He has done, as if choices among men were yet to be made - but it is not so. What you are seeing is not the unfolding of what will be in real time, but what was before the foundation of the world now being manifest as a witness for the judgement: history is His story. This is the last will and testament of those who sleep.

At the apex of this timeless tale that is told to men in story time (once upon a time), is Jesus on the cross. So, no, Jesus Christ did not die for nothing - but for everything, before and after.

This is the truth that sets men free.

 

[Dcopymope]

What you are seeing is not the unfolding of what will be in real time, but what was before the foundation of the world now being manifest as a witness for the judgement: history is His story

By your private interpretation, what the Bible calls prophecy is in fact NOT prophecy since its all already occurred. You make yourself out to be a preterist and don't even realize it........or are you one? And amongst the rest of the gibberish you wrote, none of it addresses the issue of faith being set as the condition for being saved, which means that Gods love is NOT unconditional, no matter how much you want it to be simply because its what you prefer.

 

[ScottA]

By your private interpretation, what the Bible calls prophecy is in fact NOT prophecy since its all already occurred. You make yourself out to be a preterist and don't even realize it........or are you one? And amongst the rest of the gibberish you wrote, none of it addresses the issue of faith being set as the condition for being saved, which means that Gods love is NOT unconditional, no matter how much you want it to be simply because its what you prefer.

No, I am not a pre...whatever.

But you still don't get it. Prophecy is God declaring what "is" before we see it, as a way of confirming that He is God, the Author of His story. The testimony of Jesus Christ, whether before His coming or after, is confirmation of it...because, it is it His story, and His revelation. But we are talking about God, who has no timeline except the story line of His revelation of what "is" (already).

It is not faith itself that saves a person. It is not an act of salvation, but the proof of it.