Gehenna of Fire - Jesus stated

[MatthewG]

“but I — I say to you, that every one who is angry at his brother without cause, shall be in danger of the judgment, and whoever may say to his brother, Empty fellow! shall be in danger of the sanhedrim, and whoever may say, Rebel! shall be in danger of the gehenna of the fire.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:22‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Hello to you,

This verse above is from the going’s literal. Jesus said this in context of a matter of court in how we are to settle matter quickly with another who may be trying to sue you.

It’s interesting Jesus mentions being guilty enough to go into the Gehenna of fire.

Now I’m doing a study on the scripture dealing with Gehenna which are all located here: Matthew 5:22;29;18:9;23:15;33;
Mark 9:43; Luke 12:5; James 3:6

Was wondering others thoughts on what Jesus is trying to say by this, and even though it is in context about courts can it apply with dealing with other individuals in general, such as having a harden heart against another even as a believer and experience a fire - in example like Ghenna which was were they threw dead bodies and trash into.

Would the fire be an example of the Holy Spirit and fire which Jesus came to baptize with? In which when we are mean, or their is a sense of burning in our heart when doing wrong to another it is by the Holy Spirit in wishes to burn out the trash for an example ?

Please feel free to comment and add to this, thank you,

- Matthew

 

[Aunty Jane]

Was wondering others thoughts on what Jesus is trying to say by this, and even though it is in context about courts can it apply with dealing with other individuals in general, such as having a harden heart against another even as a believer and experience a fire - in example like Ghenna which was were they threw dead bodies and trash into.

"Gehenna" was used by Jesus to illustrate what happens to the incorrigibly wicked.
A resurrection was promised to "both the righteous and the unrighteous" (Acts 24:15) But the incorrigibly wicked could expect no resurrection.
Since Jews only believed in resurrection (not immortality of the soul) they were fastidious with their burial tombs (even today) which always had their names and family lineage inscribed. To threaten someone with Gehenna was to infer eternal death...with the body cast into Gehenna for disposal, not considered worthy of a decent burial....no burial tomb to a Jew meant that God would not remember them in the resurrection.

Gehenna coincides with the "lake of fire" in Revelation, which is called "the second death". The first death has the promise of a resurrection, but the "second death" means you never come back.....it is eternal death, which is the opposite of eternal life.
It is not "hellfire" because there is no such place. God has never tortured anyone for any reason.

Would the fire be an example of the Holy Spirit and fire which Jesus came to baptize with? In which when we are mean, or their is a sense of burning in our heart when doing wrong to another it is by the Holy Spirit in wishes to burn out the trash for an example ?

No...it was simply a reference to what consumed the garbage at the city's rubbish tip. Brimstone (sulfur) was added to keep the fires constantly burning. The "worms that do not die", refer to the maggots that finished off what the flames of Gehenna missed.

It is entirely symbolic.

 

[MatthewG]

Therefore it to you, @Aunty Jane it is a reference solely to the purpose of the Devil and his angels ?

 

[MatthewG]

Have you ever experienced something happen to you when you are mean or angry or hateful towards another human being?

in my life I’ve had times where I was rude to another person when it was uncalled for, when under pressure. Then that grieving the holy spirit put me in a slum, and the only way to put it out was to go and seek for peace found in Jesus and asking God to help by the Holy Spirit.

Can this not also somehow relate to the wicked and evil thoughts we as men and women have? In which this fire from God burns out the darkness?

 

[MatthewG]

“And he said — ‘That which is coming out from the man, that doth defile the man; for from within, out of the heart of men, the evil reasonings do come forth, adulteries, whoredoms, murders, thefts, covetous desires, wickedness, deceit, arrogance, an evil eye, evil speaking, pride, foolishness; all these evils do come forth from within, and they defile the man.’”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:20-23‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Sometimes it helps also to read a few different translations. It’s not necessary, but it helps me sometimes to get a more overall feel for a word or passage. I do find that translation you quoted from interesting…calling someone an empty fellow reminded me of things I’ve heard people say in here…sort of like…unlearned, stupid, you are not filled, you are empty, no one with Gods Spirit would wonder, say or ask what you asked, heretic, lost fool, wolf, you must think and say the words of our doctrines or we will lash you with our tongues, put you to death, throw you out. And they say the same of unbelievers. They think they are doing what God requires of them.

I note the “without cause” phrase. What do you think of it Mathew?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I like the verse you tied in on post #5. It tells us it is the inside of our cup God has to clean.

 

[MatthewG]

I like the verse you tied in on post #5. It tells us it is the inside of our cup God has to clean.

Going through writing some more verses down, in Matthew 23:15;22


“‘Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye go round the sea and the dry land to make one proselyte, and whenever it may happen — ye make him a son of gehenna twofold more than yourselves.

‘Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye give tithe of the mint, and the dill, and the cumin, and did neglect the weightier things of the Law — the judgment, and the kindness, and the faith; these it behoved [you] to do, and those not to neglect.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:15, 23‬ ‭YLT98‬‬
Matthew 23:15-23 ‘Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye go round the sea and the dry land to make one proselyte, and whenever it may happen — ye make him a son of gehenna twofold more than yourselv | Young's Literal Translation 1898 (YLT98) | Download The Bible App Now

These passages are Jesus speaking to his disciples to be careful not to get tangled up with the Pharisees and Scribes; in relation to WOE which is a great heed to be mindful of them, they were hypocritical. Saying they love God but they their hearts were far from them.

There a few other passages I’m not sure about totally but they seem to speak about believers to cut away things that take away from eternal life such as possibly what was noted in post number 5.

These are those verses,


“‘But, if thy right eye doth cause thee to stumble, pluck it out and cast from thee, for it is good to thee that one of thy members may perish, and not thy whole body be cast to gehenna.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:29‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

“‘And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10:28‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I keep meaning to say, Mathew, do I remember you saying you don’t have internet so you use your phone?
I don’t know your money situation but I got a tablet as a gift, they can be gotten cheaper than iPad, an android tablet, maybe…less than $200? Then you can get internet on the tablet through Bluetooth on your phone. It’s using your phone as a hotspot kind of.

 

[MatthewG]

Sometimes it helps also to read a few different translations. It’s not necessary, but it helps me sometimes to get a more overall feel for a word or passage. I do find that translation you quoted from interesting…calling someone an empty fellow reminded me of things I’ve heard people say in here…sort of like…unlearned, stupid, you are not filled, you are empty, no one with Gods Spirit would wonder, say or ask what you asked, heretic, lost fool, wolf, you must think and say the words of our doctrines or we will lash you with our tongues, put you to death, throw you out. And they say the same of unbelievers. They think they are doing what God requires of them.

I note the “without cause” phrase. What do you think of it Mathew?

Believe that is helpful and encouraging to go and seek different translations to get possibly a better understanding of the passage, maybe checking into Greek words. Without a cause seems to be outlandish towards others when their was never a cause to begin with. The Pharisees and scribes where like this, it seems. This also brings to remembering Paul when he was named Saul how he went around in ignorance condemning and charging others before his experience with Jesus changes his whole course of direction.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Going through writing some more verses down, in Matthew 23:15;22


“‘Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye go round the sea and the dry land to make one proselyte, and whenever it may happen — ye make him a son of gehenna twofold more than yourselves.

‘Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye give tithe of the mint, and the dill, and the cumin, and did neglect the weightier things of the Law — the judgment, and the kindness, and the faith; these it behoved [you] to do, and those not to neglect.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:15, 23‬ ‭YLT98‬‬
Matthew 23:15-23 ‘Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye go round the sea and the dry land to make one proselyte, and whenever it may happen — ye make him a son of gehenna twofold more than yourselv | Young's Literal Translation 1898 (YLT98) | Download The Bible App Now

These passages are Jesus speaking to his disciples to be careful not to get tangled up with the Pharisees and Scribes; in relation to WOE which is a great heed to be mindful of them, they were hypocritical. Saying they love God but they their hearts were far from them.

There a few other passages I’m not sure about totally but they seem to speak about believers to cut away things that take away from eternal life such as possibly what was noted in post number 5.

These are those verses,


“‘But, if thy right eye doth cause thee to stumble, pluck it out and cast from thee, for it is good to thee that one of thy members may perish, and not thy whole body be cast to gehenna.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:29‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

“‘And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10:28‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

The verse I was referring to is this. It ties in too. Mathew 23:25 NLT translation:
25 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are so careful to clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside you are filthy—full of greed and self-indulgence! 26 You blind Pharisee! First wash the inside of the cup and the dish, and then the outside will become clean, too.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Believe that is helpful and encouraging to go and seek different translations to get possibly a better understanding of the passage, maybe checking into Greek words. Without a cause seems to be outlandish towards others when their was never a cause to begin with. The Pharisees and scribes where like this, it seems. This also brings to remembering Paul when he was named Saul how he went around in ignorance condemning and charging others before his experience with Jesus changes his whole course of direction.

But if someone does something like…slaps your cheek in anger, do you have cause for your anger? If they scream and yell at you do you have cause?

 

[MatthewG]

In context it’s dealing with court. There would no cause if you acting with the Holy Spirit?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

In context it’s dealing with court. There would no cause if you acting with the Holy Spirit?

Well…unforgiveness is like court, with you sitting as the judge and jury…so maybe it doesn’t literally have to be a court setting?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Believe that is helpful and encouraging to go and seek different translations to get possibly a better understanding of the passage, maybe checking into Greek words. Without a cause seems to be outlandish towards others when their was never a cause to begin with. The Pharisees and scribes where like this, it seems. This also brings to remembering Paul when he was named Saul how he went around in ignorance condemning and charging others before his experience with Jesus changes his whole course of direction.

I use a site called biblegateway. I am able to set a verse side by side from 2 different translations at once. Before I got into the whole online thing I had four or five translations and one of those huge concordances.

 

[MatthewG]

What life application scenario would you give for your question as I don’t full understand it really, Sbg?

Could it be someone trying to undermine you?
Could it be someone trying to put words in your mouth?
Could it be someone trying to push your buttons just for the sake of it?
Could it be someone trying to slander you?
Could it be someone falsely accusing you?

These things Jesus very much experienced in his life, he was looked down upon, shunned, slandered against, falsely accused by others, he was beaten physically; (sometimes we can be beaten mentally; spiritually), but Jesus always placed his hope and faith in his Father.

 

[Robert Gwin]

“but I — I say to you, that every one who is angry at his brother without cause, shall be in danger of the judgment, and whoever may say to his brother, Empty fellow! shall be in danger of the sanhedrim, and whoever may say, Rebel! shall be in danger of the gehenna of the fire.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:22‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Hello to you,

This verse above is from the going’s literal. Jesus said this in context of a matter of court in how we are to settle matter quickly with another who may be trying to sue you.

It’s interesting Jesus mentions being guilty enough to go into the Gehenna of fire.

Now I’m doing a study on the scripture dealing with Gehenna which are all located here: Matthew 5:22;29;18:9;23:15;33;
Mark 9:43; Luke 12:5; James 3:6

Was wondering others thoughts on what Jesus is trying to say by this, and even though it is in context about courts can it apply with dealing with other individuals in general, such as having a harden heart against another even as a believer and experience a fire - in example like Ghenna which was were they threw dead bodies and trash into.

Would the fire be an example of the Holy Spirit and fire which Jesus came to baptize with? In which when we are mean, or their is a sense of burning in our heart when doing wrong to another it is by the Holy Spirit in wishes to burn out the trash for an example ?

Please feel free to comment and add to this, thank you,

- Matthew

Gehenna as you pointed out Matt is about as far from Christianity as one could get. It is actually a judgment, those who have it get destroyed. Many Bible translators render the word hell, which is quite inaccurate because hell coming from sheol and hades are where all people go when they die, it should be noted that everyone who is there will be resurrected Rev 20:13, then it will be cast into the lake of fire, which is representative of Gehenna, as there will be no more death, therefore no need for hell.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes, it could be all of those things. So pick one, say someone falsely accusing you. Do you have cause for your anger? Most would say, well yes, of course you do. They did something wrong to you. But then, you have to say this if you have put yourself in the seat of a judge, because a judge must be completely impartial: Let Mathew throw the first stone, since he is the one who was wronged. If Mathew was wronged, let him throw the first stone. But let Mathew think carefully about if he has ever in his life wrongly accused someone himself (or perhaps done even worse), because he will be judged as he himself has judged. That’s fair and not partial to either man. It is the same penalty for both.

So Mathew has to decide, unforgiveness or mercy. Mathew has to say either: oh, no, please forgive him, I have been forgiven worse or he has to say, the man does not deserve the mercy of having his debt against me forgiven.

A man who has been forgiven much forgives much himself. But a man who thinks he’s only been forgiven little, forgives little.

And a man who believes his Lord when He says, to have anger in your heart at your brother is to have murdered him, has to choose forgiveness because murder is worse than a false accusation. So he should be shrewd and save his own hide.


21 Then Peter came to him and asked, “Lord, how often should I forgive someone who sins against me? Seven times?”

22 “No, not seven times,” Jesus replied, “but seventy times seven!

23 “Therefore, the Kingdom of Heaven can be compared to a king who decided to bring his accounts up to date with servants who had borrowed money from him. 24 In the process, one of his debtors was brought in who owed him millions of dollars. 25 He couldn’t pay, so his master ordered that he be sold—along with his wife, his children, and everything he owned—to pay the debt.

26 “But the man fell down before his master and begged him, ‘Please, be patient with me, and I will pay it all.’ 27 Then his master was filled with pity for him, and he released him and forgave his debt.

28 “But when the man left the king, he went to a fellow servant who owed him a few thousand dollars. He grabbed him by the throat and demanded instant payment.

29 “His fellow servant fell down before him and begged for a little more time. ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it,’ he pleaded. 30 But his creditor wouldn’t wait. He had the man arrested and put in prison until the debt could be paid in full.

31 “When some of the other servants saw this, they were very upset. They went to the king and told him everything that had happened. 32 Then the king called in the man he had forgiven and said, ‘You evil servant! I forgave you that tremendous debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Shouldn’t you have mercy on your fellow servant, just as I had mercy on you?’ 34 Then the angry king sent the man to prison to be tortured until he had paid his entire debt.

35 “That’s what my heavenly Father will do to you if you refuse to forgive your brothers and sisters from your heart.”

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The verse I was referring to is this. It ties in too. Mathew 23:25 NLT translation:
25 “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are so careful to clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside you are filthy—full of greed and self-indulgence! 26 You blind Pharisee! First wash the inside of the cup and the dish, and then the outside will become clean, too.

And I have watched men who get quizzed by lawyers, teachers of religious law in here. They will go after a man and demand he must condemn as they do, for instance an unbelieving homosexual. They will beat the man up badly if he refuses. I’ve even seen it happen to you, Mathew. And you might not even have been able to put into words why you had a strong distaste and disinclination to judge an unbeliever, but at your core, it’s because you know you were also an unbeliever once and have been forgiven of sexual sin, whether inward, outward, or both, and you, by the Spirit in you, desire mercy for others as well and refuse to put yourself in the seat of judge as they have.

You were preaching Jesus’ gospel with your very mind and body and didn’t even know it or know how to exactly put it into words. And they would not receive it and it made them very angry with you. So rejoice, Mathew, because you suffered a little of what your Lord suffered and honored Him because the Spirit in you saves you and keeps the inside of your cup clean.

Im always amazed when I see a man beaten for living the gospel of His Lord. And then I am amazed even more when he is called a false teacher and worse and manages to escape their indoctrination of mercilessness, unharmed.

 

[MatthewG]

Gehenna as you pointed out Matt is about as far from Christianity as one could get. It is actually a judgment, those who have it get destroyed. Many Bible translators render the word hell, which is quite inaccurate because hell coming from sheol and hades are where all people go when they die, it should be noted that everyone who is there will be resurrected Rev 20:13, then it will be cast into the lake of fire, which is representative of Gehenna, as there will be no more death, therefore no need for hell.

Thank you for your understanding and sharing, that helps a lot, Robert.