Genesis 4:6-7 What is it that lies (or reclines) at the door?

[charity]

'And the LORD said unto Cain,
"Why art thou wroth? and
why is thy countenance fallen?
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?
and if thou doest not well, sin (sin-offering) lieth at the door.
And unto thee shall be his desire,
and thou shalt rule over him."'
(Genesis 4:6-7)

Hi there,

In the margin of my Bible regarding the words, ... 'sin lieth at the door.' . The word 'sin' is explained to be the Hebrew word 'chattath' which means 'sin-offering' which is from 'chata' (to sin by falling short) : in other places where this word is used the word 'offering' is given in the translation, as in Exodus 30:10. Leviticus 4:3 and Leviticus 6:25. The word, 'Lieth' is explained in this way:- (quote) ''Lieth' is masculine, and 'sin-offering' is feminine, so that the Hebrew reads, 'at the entrance [a male] is lying, a sin offering.'

The words which follow, 'And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.' The words, 'His', and 'him,' identify the sin-offering to be male, a male lamb was lying at the door, it was the sin-offering for Cain to offer to the Lord as an acceptable offering, which he chose not to avail himself of.

The animal was without fear, desiring to do the will of the man, for only after the flood did an animal have the fear of man (Genesis 9:2), and the man had rule (or dominion) over him (Genesis 1:26), he could do with him what he willed.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Joseph77]

Great ! (re sin-offering)
As Jesus >>
Hebrews 9:11-14
But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh,read more.
1 Peter 1:18-19
knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.
===========================================================

and just like Cain, the world rejects the sin-offering >
1 John 3:12 ►
SUM PIC XRF DEV STU
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother's were righteous.

 

[101G]

Great ! (re sin-offering)
As Jesus >>
Hebrews 9:11-14
But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh,read more.
1 Peter 1:18-19
knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.
===========================================================

and just like Cain, the world rejects the sin-offering >
1 John 3:12 ►
SUM PIC XRF DEV STU
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother's were righteous.

Agreed, but also consider this, what lieth at the door is a "guilty conscience", which needs to be re-generated, which the blood that was spilled, of Christ to come, here righteous Abel blood, is clensed. and the start of this cleaning of a guilty conscience", is the removal of it by baptism in WATER, scripture, 1 Peter 3:21 "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ".

understand Cain had a dirty conscience toward God, stained by the acts of "SIN", that needed cleaning, that's why he was removed from the Land until redemption comes.

PICJAG.

 

[Base12]

I was studying this very subject not too long ago.

The word 'lieth' is interesting because in some verses, it is used to describe a Lion or Leopard...

Genesis 49:9
"Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?"

Isaiah 11:6
"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them"

It reminds me of the Beast in Revelation...

Revelation 13:2
"And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority"

If there really is a connection between the 'sin that lieth' and the 'Beast of Revelation', then that would mean that Cain was the first to become part of the Beast System.

In fact, I believe that the Mark of Cain and the Mark of the Beast are the same thing. There are many more connections I have found between the Beast and Cain.

Having said that Charity, I found your take to be rather fascinating because it fits in with another piece of the puzzle that may be too dark for the average Christian to understand or believe.

That is this...

Not only was Abel the first Human Sacrifice...

Hebrews 12:24
"And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel"

...but Abel was also a Human Sacrifice done for REWARD.

In other words, Cain sacrificed his brother in order to receive a Reward from Satan in a similar way we see Satanists doing the same thing today. It was a 'deal with the Devil'.

The Reward was the promise the Serpent gave to Eve...

Genesis 3:4
"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die"

Genesis 3:5
"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil"

Thus, God had to fulfill this promise by giving Cain a form of fleshly immortality...

Genesis 4:15
"And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him"

Therefore the Mark of Cain and the Mark of the Beast are the same in that they are both representative of a false form of Salvation...

1) To live forever
2) To be as the Gods

Anyhow, I found your thread to be of value as it seems to validate my suspicions.

As a side note, Genesis 4:7 is where we find the first use of the word 'Door'.

What is this Door?

 

[DPMartin]

'And the LORD said unto Cain,
"Why art thou wroth? and
why is thy countenance fallen?
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?
and if thou doest not well, sin (sin-offering) lieth at the door.
And unto thee shall be his desire,
and thou shalt rule over him."'
(Genesis 4:6-7)

Hi there,

In the margin of my Bible regarding the words, ... 'sin lieth at the door.' . The word 'sin' is explained to be the Hebrew word 'chattath' which means 'sin-offering' which is from 'chata' (to sin by falling short) : in other places where this word is used the word 'offering' is given in the translation, as in Exodus 30:10. Leviticus 4:3 and Leviticus 6:25. The word, 'Lieth' is explained in this way:- (quote) ''Lieth' is masculine, and 'sin-offering' is feminine, so that the Hebrew reads, 'at the entrance [a male] is lying, a sin offering.'

The words which follow, 'And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.' The words, 'His', and 'him,' identify the sin-offering to be male, a male lamb was lying at the door, it was the sin-offering for Cain to offer to the Lord as an acceptable offering, which he chose not to avail himself of.

The animal was without fear, desiring to do the will of the man, for only after the flood did an animal have the fear of man (Genesis 9:2), and the man had rule (or dominion) over him (Genesis 1:26), he could do with him what he willed.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

nope sorry Chris I don't know who wrote in the margins of your bible but its wiser to stick strictly to the text.

look at the context its in:

Gen 4:3　 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.　
Gen 4:4　 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:　
Gen 4:5　 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.　
Gen 4:6　 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?　
Gen 4:7　 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.　

and after this what did Cain do. go look for a lamb to have a acceptable offering or did he have it out with his brother Abel who was his subordinate younger brother.

Abel is the first man to experience death, and it was by the hand of his brother who was elder therefore had world authority over him. note that Jesus is the first to be resurrected who was sent by his brethren (via Abraham) to be killed by those who had world authority over him.

and Jesus is referred to as the "Lamb"

you don't need a lexicon to understand sin. sin is an act that is contrary to agreement. you can sin against your employer if you do what is contrary to what is agreed. and sin can also be understood a state of separation from the Presence of God in the case of one's agreement with his Maker. as Jesus stated to the effect that they would die in their sin, Israel was in an agreement (covenant) with the Almighty.

anyway if you notice the Lamb that was an acceptable offering and the Almighty honored Abel offering through out the relationship with those whom God worked with. such as Abraham and the Israelites. I'd say Noah also but not sure if the lamb is mentioned only clean and unclean I do believe. so its Jesus that is the Lamb that is acceptable for use to Live.

another thing one might notice is the life of the body the blood cried out from the ground and God made sure we know He heard it. and just how important is it that the blood of Christ wash away sin?

 

[Enoch111]

...and if thou doest not well, sin (sin-offering) lieth at the door...

This would be the most reasonable interpretation of this verse (as also confirmed in Thayer's lexicon).

"If thou doest not well" = if you sin, then the sin offering is right there at the door of your dwelling. Which meant that he was to offer up a sin offering to God. However, Cain failed to do that. For Christians and unbelievers alike, the sin offering is Christ Himself, therefore all the animal sacrifices were abolished. "There remaineth no more sacrifice for sins".

 

[Webers_Home]

.
● Gen 4:7a . . If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?

Cain believed in the existence of a supreme being; that was good, and his
ritual was timely; that was good too. But Cain's piety was flawed, i.e. his
personal conduct didn't meet God's standards, viz: Cain wasn't devout, thus
his impious ways tainted the offering and made it unacceptable. (cf. 1Pet
1:18-19 where it's implied that Christ's blood is an acceptable offering
because his ways were acceptable.)

FAQ: How could Cain possibly know God's standards without a written code
to inform him?

A: Luke 11:49-51 says that Cain's kid brother Abel was a prophet; so Cain
at least had a verbal source, which is adequate enough when it's coming
from an inspired man.

Cain's situation is well illustrated at Isa 1:11-20. Moses' people were offering
all the covenanted sacrifices, they were praying up a storm, and observing
all the God-given feasts and holy days. He rejected all of it, even though He
himself required it, because the people's personal conduct was unbecoming.

"The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to Jehovah." (Prv 15:8)

Perhaps the classic example is the one below.

"You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure
in burnt offerings." (Ps 51:16)

When David wrote that; he had only just committed the capital crimes of
adultery and premeditated murder. There was just no way that God was
going to accept his sacrifices and offerings on top of that; and David knew it
too.

The principle shows up again in Jesus' teachings.

"Go and learn what this means: I desire mercy and not sacrifice." (Matt
9:13)

Some folk honestly believe that Christ's statement, taken from Hosea 6:6,
practically repealed the entire God-given book of Leviticus. But that's not
what either Hosea or Jesus were saying. They meant that God much prefers
that people be civil with each other rather than religious to their fingertips.

In other words; an ungracious person's lack of things like sympathy,
patience, tolerance, lenience, helpfulness, pity, and common courtesy
causes God to reject their worship just as thoroughly and bluntly as He
rejected Cain's.

FAQ: In what way might Cain's piety have been lacking?

A: Well, my first guess would be bad blood between him and his younger
sibling. (Matt 5:23-24)

And his attitude was deplorable; Cain was insolent and rude; even to God.
(Gen 4:9)

● Gen 4:7b . . But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your
door;

This is the very first instance in the Bible of the word "sin". The Hebrew word
is chatta'ah (khat-taw-aw') and/or chatta'th (khat-tawth') which are
ambiguous words that technically mean an offense; as in repeat offender. In
other words; not just an occasional slip-up, but a life style

● Gen 4:7c . . it desires to have you, but you must master it.

This is the first mention of self control in the Bible. In other words: God
created humanity with the capability to choose bad ways for itself; but that's
only half the story. God also created humanity with the capability to choose
good ways for itself; so He wasn't requiring something impossible from Cain
like touching his right elbow with the thumb of his right hand.

Many years ago when I and my siblings were teen-agers attending an
evening service at our church, the minister asked us all to stand and
promise God that we would live a good life. Well, my brother stood, but he
didn't promise. Later on at home, I asked him why he didn't make the
promise. He said: "There's some things I want to do".

Unbeknownst to us at the time; the minister, in his own words, had called
the congregation to heed Gen 4:7 just as God had called Cain all those many
years ago. My sister and I, though not the best examples of self control, at
least began making an effort. But my brother; none at all. He preferred the
land of Nod, so to speak, where he could run his own life the way he wanted
away from God's interference.
_

 

[charity]

@Joseph77
@101G
@Base12
@DPMartin
@Enoch111
@Webers_Home

Hello there,

Thank you all for responding as you have, and for giving your input on this subject. Each one provides a different perspective. It is amazing how many variables there are in members minds regarding this one detail, which appears to have far reaching ramifications in your individual estimation.

@[B]Joseph77[/B] - was in agreement with the OP, and quoted from Hebrews 9:11-14; & 1 Peter 1:18-19 (re: redemption through the blood of Christ) and 1 John 3:11-12 concerning Cain, as an example of one who did not love his brother, who was 'of that wicked one', and slew his brother. Slaying him because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. Pointing out that the world today, like Cain, rejects the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ, who as the Lamb of God Who, 'taketh away the sin of the world' (John 1:29)

@[B]101G[/B] - was also in agreement with the OP, and like Joseph remarks on 'the guilty conscious' aspect: but I don't think that what lay at the door was a guilty conscience needing regenerating as you say, 101G, but that Cain's heart was filled with aggrieved pride and anger, that his younger brother's offering was accepted but his own rejected.

* Cain had worked hard to produce the fruit of the ground that he tilled (Genesis 4:2), made more difficult by the curse which had been placed on it, and the thorns and thistles that it now produced as a consequence of sin's entry into the world (Genesis 3:17), and like Abel, he sought acceptance with God, by bringing the best that he had as an offering. So many do that even today, don't they? They seek to be accepted by God on the basis of their own merit, and not on the basis of the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, who died to make reconciliation with God possible for all who will place their trust in Him: and it is they, as Cain, who persecute those who, like Abel have acted in faith (Hebrews 11:4), by trusting in the sacrificial offering of God's choosing, and not on their own merit to gain access to the Father, and peace with God.

* Cain was 'cursed from the earth' after he had killed his brother (Genesis 4:11-12), and there is nothing to tell us that his conscience troubled him. but that what concerned him was that he would now become a vagabond, and a fugitive, and that others would seek to slay him (Genesis 4:13-14).

* I will not be able to respond further at this time.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Elihoenai]

'And the LORD said unto Cain,
"Why art thou wroth? and
why is thy countenance fallen?
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?
and if thou doest not well, sin (sin-offering) lieth at the door.
And unto thee shall be his desire,
and thou shalt rule over him."'
(Genesis 4:6-7)

Hi there,

In the margin of my Bible regarding the words, ... 'sin lieth at the door.' . The word 'sin' is explained to be the Hebrew word 'chattath' which means 'sin-offering' which is from 'chata' (to sin by falling short) : in other places where this word is used the word 'offering' is given in the translation, as in Exodus 30:10. Leviticus 4:3 and Leviticus 6:25. The word, 'Lieth' is explained in this way:- (quote) ''Lieth' is masculine, and 'sin-offering' is feminine, so that the Hebrew reads, 'at the entrance [a male] is lying, a sin offering.'

The words which follow, 'And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.' The words, 'His', and 'him,' identify the sin-offering to be male, a male lamb was lying at the door, it was the sin-offering for Cain to offer to the Lord as an acceptable offering, which he chose not to avail himself of.

The animal was without fear, desiring to do the will of the man, for only after the flood did an animal have the fear of man (Genesis 9:2), and the man had rule (or dominion) over him (Genesis 1:26), he could do with him what he willed.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Proverbs 30:10 King James Version (KJV)

10 Accuse not a servant unto his master, lest he curse thee, and thou be found guilty.


Thought provoking post!

What lieth at the door is a "Cancellation For Debt". Sinners are indebted to Elohim/God. Do you agree and assert that Sinners have a Guilty Conscience?

 

[Joseph77]

Indeed? What is written in the Bible about the conscience ? Who does, and who does not have an active conscience ?

Do you agree and assert that Sinners have a Guilty Conscience?

 

[101G]

@[B]101G[/B] - was also in agreement with the OP, and like Joseph remarks on 'the guilty conscious' aspect: but I don't think that what lay at the door was a guilty conscience needing regenerating as you say, 101G, but that Cain's heart was filled with aggrieved pride and anger, that his younger brother's offering was accepted but his own rejected.

First thanks for the reply, second, what you think what Cain's heart, was filled with? aggrieved pride and anger, that's of one conscience, whach was his GUIDE of the devil, to resist the laws of God.

but you gave your own answer,

* Cain had worked hard to produce the fruit of the ground that he tilled (Genesis 4:2), made more difficult by the curse which had been placed on it, and the thorns and thistles that it now produced as a consequence of sin's entry into the world (Genesis 3:17), and like Abel, he sought acceptance with God, by bringing the best that he had as an offering. So many do that even today, don't they? They seek to be accepted by God on the basis of their own merit, and not on the basis of the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, who died to make reconciliation with God possible for all who will place their trust in Him: and it is they, as Cain, who persecute those who, like Abel have acted in faith (Hebrews 11:4), by trusting in the sacrificial offering of God's choosing, and not on their own merit to gain access to the Father, and peace with God.

see, it was nothing WRONG with the offering of Cain, what was WRONG, was in his HEART. he was rejected not of his offering, but the condition of his Heart, which is in the MIND, meaning his Conscience act. Abel brought the best. did not God tell Cain what his problem was? Genesis 4:6 "And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
Genesis 4:7 "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

this is bored out by God himself, John 8:42 "Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
John 8:43 "Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
ohn 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
John 8:45 "And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
John 8:46 "Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
John 8:47 "He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

as the old saying goes, "Let your conscience be your guide, but the question is who are guiding your conscience".

PICJAG.