1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Genesis - The True Story of the Beginning....

Discussion in 'Christianity & Science Forum' started by 4Pillars, Jun 15, 2015.

  1. 4Pillars

    4Pillars Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    5
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    [SIZE=12pt]Here's my take - Genesis 1:1-5..... based on my own Biblical perspective.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=12pt]Gen.1:1 - is just a Preface... The Story of the Beginning of Our Physical World...[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=12pt]Gen. 1:2 - narrates us the condition of the deep before the making of our physical heavens and earth.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=12pt]Gen. 1:3 - The bringing forth of the Light before the world was.... before anything is made that was made.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=12pt]Gen. 1:4 - The division of light from darkness...The first work of old.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=12pt]Gen. 1:5 - The evening and the morning, the First Day[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=12pt]Notice: Our heaven and earth was not yet formed at this time . The actual formation of the 1st heaven took place only on the 2nd Day - Gen. 1:6-8.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12pt] Our own world was made on the 3rd Day.[/SIZE]


    [SIZE=12pt]Of course, the above analogies are based only on my own Biblical understanding.[/SIZE]
     
  2. 4Pillars

    4Pillars Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    5
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    There are several reasons why I believe that the word used in the Preface of Gen. 1:1 is Heaven and not Heavens (plural).

    In the context of the text, I see the narrative as saying:

    In the beginning God Created the heaven (Air) and the Earth (Ground). And the Earth (Ground) was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness (Death) was upon the face of the deep, (Water) and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

    The 3 elements necessary for all physical form are shown... Air, Dust, and Water. Everything which is physical is composed of these 3 elements. The text is correct in showing that the water was not directly created, or spoken into being, because it consists of elements of the Air or Atmosphere. Water is Hydrogen and Oxygen and came from the Atmosphere and is not shown as a separate creation.

    This is correct in today's scientific knowledge, but IF the Scriptures were written by Ancient men, Moses would not have known this. He would have written that in the beginning God created the Air, Dust, and Water, but since God Himself is the Author, He correctly shows that the Atmosphere and Ground were created, and the Water was not a separate creation but instead, came from the Atmosphere.


    God Bless
     
  3. 4Pillars

    4Pillars Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    5
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    [SIZE=12pt]Jesus, the Son, physically existed[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt]BEFORE[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] the world was. He is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=12pt]In the Garden of Gethsemane, just before His crucifixion, Jesus prays to his Father:[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=12pt]"And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with Thine Own Self with the glory which I had with Thee [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]before the world was[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]." John 17:5[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=12pt]Glory is Brightness, a Physical trait. Jesus is speaking of the Brightness of his Glory which He shared with the Father, [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Before the world was (Gen. 1:3)[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12pt]Before the world was can only be the 1st Day[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], since, the first World was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=12pt]If one believes that In the beginning God created the HeavenS (Plural) before the 1st Day, then the Words of Jesus would seem to be in error.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=12pt]If one believes that the 1st Firmament or Heaven was formed on the 2nd Day[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], then it would agree with Jesus, and would show that... He was brought forth into the World[/SIZE] Before the 1st Heaven was formed.

    [SIZE=12pt]God bless[/SIZE]
     
  4. 4Pillars

    4Pillars Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    5
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Here's how you can reconcile the Story of the Beginning .... The bringing forth the Son of God into our physical world... using only the Scriptures .... My witnesses (3).

    [SIZE=12pt]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12pt]The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. Prov. 8:22[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12pt]And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Gen 1:2[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12pt]The same was in the beginning with God. John 1:2[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12pt]I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.Prov 8:3[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12pt]And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.Gen, 1:3[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12pt]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12pt]When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Prov 8:24[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12pt]And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.Gen.1:4[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12pt]In him was life; and the life was the light of men.John 1:4[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12pt]Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: Prov 8:25[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12pt]And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Gen 1:5[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12pt]And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. John 1:5[/SIZE]
     
  5. 4Pillars

    4Pillars Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    5
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    [SIZE=12pt]Genesis 1:21 tells us that every living creature that moveth was brought forth from the waters on Day 5. This included the sons of God of Gen. 6 who's origin is from the waters.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12pt]Genesis 2 tells us of Creatures made from the dust. Some people see this as a contradiction, and falsely assume that God made a boo boo. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=12pt]They are ignorant of the fact that God (Elohim) originally made every Living Creature that moved, from the water, on Day 5. The account of the formation of the beasts[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12pt]of the field [/SIZE]and fowl of the air, from the Dust, on the 6th Day, is when YHWH or Jesus (the Son) squeezed, as a potter would mold clay, and formed living creatures from the dust of the ground.
    [SIZE=12pt]The creatures made from the dust were identical to those made from the water, and could produce offspring with the creatures from the water. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=12pt]The first Living Being made from the dust was man. Man was made on the 3rd Day before the plants and herbs, right after the mist that watered the whole face of the ground -Gen 2:4-7. This gives mankind Preeminence or First Place among all other Living Creatures. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=12pt]Like the animals made from the dust, humans also married and produced children with Beings brought forth from the water. That's where Cain's wife came from, [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12pt]and that is who Noah's grandsons married, on this Planet.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=12pt]Therefore, INCEST was NEVER a part of our Lord God (Son') plan..... in the process of multiplication of Mankind.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=12pt]We have the DNA of the sons of God (Prehistoric Mankind) and we also have the Human Intelligence that can ONLY be inherited from Adam, [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=12pt]the first Human. Yes, we all descended with [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]modifications from a common ancestor, and his name is Adam.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=12pt]God created every living creature that moveth, from the water, on the 5th Day, and Jesus produced " their/His Kinds" from the dust of the ground, on the 6th Day. W[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]e are confined to our own kinds in order to multiply. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=12pt]God Bless[/SIZE]
     
  6. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

    Messages:
    532
    Likes Received:
    45
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Here is a time line of the creation:
    THE BEGINNING
    The material heavens and earth are created.—Genesis 1:1.
    DARKNESS
    The earth is formless, desolate, and dark.—Genesis 1:2.
    FIRST DAY
    Diffused light evidently penetrates the earth’s atmosphere. If there had been any observer on the surface of the earth, the sources of light would have been imperceptible to him. Yet, the difference between night and day became discernible.—Genesis 1:3-5.
    SECOND DAY
    The earth is covered with water and a dense mantle of vapor. These two elements are separated, creating a gap between the watery surface and the canopy of vapor. The Bible describes this space as “an expanse between the waters,” and calls it “Heaven.”—Genesis 1:6-8.
    THIRD DAY
    Surface water subsides and dry ground appears. The atmosphere clears up to allow more sunlight to reach the ground. Some vegetation appears, with new species sprouting through the third and subsequent creative days.—Genesis 1:9-13.
    FOURTH DAY
    The sun and moon become discernible from the earth’s surface.—Genesis 1:14-19.
    FIFTH DAY
    God creates underwater creatures and flying creatures in great numbers with the ability to procreate within their kinds.—Genesis 1:20-23.
    SIXTH DAY
    Land animals are created, both large and small. The sixth day culminates with a masterpiece of God’s physical creation: the first human couple.—Genesis 1:24-31.

    The Bible does not support fundamentalists and creationists who claim that the creative days were literal 24-hour days. The Bible account of creation does not conflict with the scientific observation that variations occur within a kind.(source of information, March 2014 Awake !, pgs 4-7, entitled "The Untold Story of Creation")
     
  7. Rank Stranger

    Rank Stranger New Member

    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    1
    Very interesting topic, and some very interesting replies. I share agreement with some, and have slight differences with others.

    There is one important point that, at the risk of digressing from the topic, I would like to make in brief. Science tells us a lot about the physical aspects of our planet. The chemical make-up of various substances is just one example. However, there is not one single non-Christian scientist that can tell us the answer to the most basic question of all concerning our physical surroundings -- that is how the original elements that make up all matter were actually created. They can prove that any matter exists, but they cannot tell us how that matter came into existence. God, on the other hand, does not hesitate to claim His glory for His creation. He tells all who will read in Genesis 1:1. And that, brothers and sisters, is the primary difference between all non-believing scientists and Christians. We know and believe the real and actual truth.

    God Bless,

    Rank Stranger
     
  8. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,624
    Likes Received:
    2,268
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    I have a friend who Jesus has being teaching about genesis for over 30 years,hasnt got past chapter 3, and she is still learning.
     
  9. IBeMe

    IBeMe New Member

    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    11
    Little late but too good to pass...

    "2: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

    It's important to consider whether 'water' stands for H2O, or something of a 'fluid' like nature.

    'water'; 'Strong's Definition: Dual of a primitive noun (but used in a singular sense); water ; figuratively juice ; by euphemism urine, semen: - + piss, wasting, water (-ing, [-course, -flood, -spring]).'

    Water (mayim) is used different ways in the Bible.

    It's also interesting that it's a 'duality' word.

    (I'm not at all trying to support the Big Bang theory.)

    It's also interesting that the BB theory is a 'fluid' theory.

    It's scientifically impossible for H2O to exist before 'light'; so I conclude that verse 2 is speaking of something of fluid like nature; "without form, and void."

    ...


    "3: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."

    Nothing can happen before 'light'. There can only be; "without form, and void."
    'Light' is more than visibility; it's radiation, the transfer of energy.

    Once 'light' (radiation, energy transfer) is added, things start cooking!

    ...

    "7: And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament..."

    Massive explosion? That would be expected.

    Again, not supporting the BB theory; but BB folks call this "inflation".

    It's laughable that some question the Bible timeline; but BB folks believe their 'inflation' took place in one trillionth of a second!
     
  10. OzSpen

    OzSpen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,233
    Likes Received:
    546
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    Rank Stranger,

    I'm very late in joining this topic. However, I found your observation very insightful. Scientists can discuss issues such as the Big Bang but they can't tell us how there was anything there to cause the 'bang'.

    However, one of the great barriers for unbelieving scientists is that they can't (and never will) get their heads around the meaning of Gen 1:1, 'In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth'. Here we have the beginning of things - the absolute beginning and it was made by elohim Himself.

    The verb bara (created) 'is correctly defined as expressing the origination of something great, new and "epoch-making," as only God can do' (Leupold 1942:40). While bara can refer to use of pre-existing materials (see Isa 65:18), since no pre-existing materials are mentioned in Gen 1:1, it is implied that this passage teaches how God created the heavens and the earth - creatio ex nihilo (creation out of nothing), which is taught in other Scriptures such as Rom 4:17 (ESV) and Heb 11:3 (ESV). Leupold states that 'the verb is never used of other than DIVINE activity' (Leupold 1942:41, emphasis in original).

    This is hardly news to sell science books but it is profoundly true for those who have faith in the Trinitarian God. Those whose hearts have been changed by the living Christ and who believe in the authority of God-breathed Scripture are able to affirm the reality of these things by faith. We weren't there to see the creation in the beginning, but God was.

    Oz

    Works consulted
    Leupold, H C 1942. Exposition of Genesis, vol 1 (chs 1-19). London: Evangelical Press (1942 copyright, The Wartburg Press).
     
  11. Barrd

    Barrd His Humble Servant

    Messages:
    2,995
    Likes Received:
    54
    I wonder that it never occurred to anyone that "Let there be Light" might have had something to do with bringing forth Jesus...by Whose Power all things were made...

    Just a thought.
     
  12. Born_Again

    Born_Again Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    155
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I have resisted replying to this one for some time..... But this is a good example of how you tend to make it up as you go.. If you run with this theory, you will quickly discredit yourself more-so. Please don't run with this one. I beg you.
     
  13. Barrd

    Barrd His Humble Servant

    Messages:
    2,995
    Likes Received:
    54
    :rolleyes:
    I did say it was just a thought.
    No need to get all emotional about it. We are allowed to think, aren't we?
     
  14. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

    Messages:
    4,836
    Likes Received:
    106
    Because Jesus was not born yet, and the word means sun light, as clearly evidenced in the context of Gen 1:3-5
     
  15. Born_Again

    Born_Again Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    155
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Not if you are going to entertain some profound backwards theology ideas, NO!
     
  16. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

    Messages:
    4,836
    Likes Received:
    106
    Ceased to be when you posted it Barrd, but no one is telling you NOT to think. In actuality you are normally exhorted TO think, when it is apparent that you have not done so when reactively post your thoughts on CB.
    :)
     
  17. Born_Again

    Born_Again Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    155
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    And that is how you kill a thread with grace and ease LOL :p
     
  18. Barrd

    Barrd His Humble Servant

    Messages:
    2,995
    Likes Received:
    54
    Let me guess....Genesis is an actual blow-by-blow description of the creation of mankind, including the original sin...it actually was a piece of fruit that Eve ate, and then later shared with Adam...Cain actually married his sister, the daughter of Adam and Eve...and the earth, and all of the universe is actually only about 6,000 years old.
    Does that about cover it?

    Oh, and we should not teach our kids real science in the classroom, we ought to be teaching them this creationism stuff, because, as we all know, evolution is completely false. Almost forgot that one....

    :rolleyes:
     
  19. Barrd

    Barrd His Humble Servant

    Messages:
    2,995
    Likes Received:
    54
    How could it be sun light when the sun had not been created yet?
    And how could anything have been created before Jesus, since "all things were made by Him and without Him was nothing made that is made"?

    Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    "All things" would include the sun...in fact, it would include the entire universe.
    Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
    Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

    Oh, and look! "In Him was life, and the life was the LIGHT OF MAN!

    Hmmm....
     
  20. Born_Again

    Born_Again Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    155
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Are you serious? Um, okay. If that's the ship you want to sail. Have fun with that. I'm not going further with this. Completely illogical. Have a good one, Barrd. Nice chatting with ya. Take care now.
     
Loading...