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God changed Seventh Day Sabbath Worship to First Day of the Week

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by JunChosen, Jul 3, 2021.

  1. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    You must listen to your president and pope and priests and pastors, Seventh day Adventist, It is for your own good and safety not to say I said something.
     
  2. Backlit

    Backlit Well-Known Member

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    They are wrong when they replace, or displace, the commandments of God.

    KJV Matthew 15:6-9
    6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
    7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
    8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
    9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
     
  3. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Book 4/1, 4/2, 4/3, 44 [​IMG]
    biblestudents.co.za
     
  4. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 28:1 is confusing because it sounds self contradictory. Dawn is not the beginning of the Hebrew day, but dusk. Sabbath starts at dusk on Friday and ends at dusk on Saturday. This is the Hebrew convention now as it was then and based upon Genesis 1:5. I've never given it a thought before, but it makes the verse seem erroneous. Another complication with the verse is that Passover includes a "high Sabbath " on the first day of the feast of unleavened bread which doesn't have to fall on a Saturday, but on the 15th day of the 1st month (sundown on Passover. )
    With regard to the observance of days, we're told by scripture that Jesus is our Sabbath rest, so to be in Him is to be "at rest" seven days a week.
     
  5. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    You show bigotry..
    The reason why The roman Catholoc Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday was ... hmm

    Funny what came to mind was exactly what happened to Joseph's family when they came to Egypt.
    Here let me show you..

    Gen 43:29 And he lifted up his eyes, and saw his brother Benjamin, his mother's son, and said, Is this your younger brother, of whom ye spake unto me? And he said, God be gracious unto thee, my son.
    Gen 43:30 And Joseph made haste; for his bowels did yearn upon his brother: and he sought where to weep; and he entered into his chamber, and wept there.
    Gen 43:31 And he washed his face, and went out, and refrained himself, and said, Set on bread.
    Gen 43:32 And they set on for him by himself, and for them by themselves, and for the Egyptians, which did eat with him, by themselves: because the Egyptians might not eat bread with the Hebrews; for that is an abomination unto the Egyptians.

    Again we see Rome who was conspirators with Egypt, because they incorporated Egypts sun worship and Pagan practices, once again wanting to separate themselves from the Jews (Hebrews) .

    You can't escape the Truth. History repeats itself and you can't bury your head in the sand trying to escape it.
    It is what it is.
    Truth is Truth.

    The Roman Catholic Church is a Pagan Church.
    It doesn't matter who's name they claim they worship by.
    In secret they call themselves Luciferians. And Lucifer id the messenger of light they worship.

    You remember the guys who tried to cast out demons in Jesus' name, and the demons said, Paul we know, and Jesus we know,
    but we don't know who you are.
    Same thing goes with the Roman Catholic Church.
    They call themselves good.. and their fruits prove they are not good.
    They changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday because they didn't want to be associated tith the Jews.

    We got names for that today.
    Anti-semitism, Racism, Bigots....
    But for some reason they never see themselves in the light of truth.
    They like to point fingers at others though.
    They call that projection.

    Now, I'm not a Jew. I don't follow the traditions of the Sabbath, because I'm not under the law of Moses.
    I do however remember it, and set it aside as a special day for acknowledging all that God has done for us.
    Because through Abraham we recieve the Sabbath by faith, even though we are Gentiles.
    I don't accept a manmade day as the Sabbath.
    I accept God's day he said he is Lord of.

    That's me.
    I don't mask, and I don't vaccinate, and I don't attend a church in a building.
    I am at Liberty in the Lord, and intend on staying so, the Lord willing.
    The church is the people. It's not a denomination, or a building, it's a people called out by God alone, scattered all over the world.
    Be they Catholic or Protestant or Muslim or Jehovah Witness or SDA or whatever other name they choose to go by.
    There will be 2 in a field (church) , 1 will be taken and the other left.
    Regardless of your denomination.

    You can acknowledge Sunday, Saturday, anyday you want, as long as you do what you do for the Lord and not man.

    Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

    Stop condemning people or you will find yourself condemned.
    I don't attack the Catholics or the Jews or the Hindis or the Muslims.
    I know God has a plan for all of us.
    And each in his season.
    So do you, do you unto the Lord whole heartedly, don't let others convince you otherwise, and don't try to convince others otherwise.
    Be an example by the way you walk, not the way you talk.

    yea / nay ?

    Hugs
    Hugs
     
  6. robert derrick

    robert derrick Well-Known Member

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    Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    Like endless debates in genealogy, so are meaningless debates about days.

    Sabbaton Blabbaton

    Outward obedience to a carnal commandment to worship is no worship at all.

    Letters kept by law, where there is no law, kill the Spirit of the law and destroy the law, and when done to worship, kills worshipping in Spirit and in truth.

    Sabbath keepers by law practice a will worship of one's own making: Idolatry of a day, by which they separate themselves from the body of Christ, in order to make themselves to appear with each other superior in rest.

    Like those who believe Jehovah only are idolizing a name, rather than worshipping the name above every name, Jesus, so do Sabbath commanders idolize a day, rather than worshipping Him in any day with Him.
     
  7. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    Whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:19, NRSV.

    Any person who willfully breaks one commandment does not, in spirit and truth, keep any of them. "Whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all" (James 2:10).
    It is not the greatness of the act of disobedience that constitutes sin, but the fact of variance from God's expressed will in the least particular; for this shows that there is yet communion between the soul and sin. The heart is divided in its service. There is a virtual denial of God, a rebellion against the laws of His government.
    Were men and women free to depart from the Lord's requirements and to set up a standard of duty for themselves, there would be a variety of standards to suit different minds and the government would be taken out of the Lord's hands. The will of human beings would be made supreme, and the high and holy will of God—His purpose of love toward His creatures—would be dishonored, disrespected.
    Whenever created beings choose their own way, they place themselves in controversy with God. They will have no place in the kingdom of heaven, for they are at war with the very principles of heaven. In disregarding the will of God, they are placing themselves on the side of Satan, the enemy of God and humanity. Not by one word, not by many words, but by every word that God has spoken, shall we live. We cannot disregard one word, however trifling it may seem to us, and be safe. There is not a commandment of the law that is not for the good and happiness of men and women, both in this life and in the life to come. In obedience to God's law, His children are surrounded as with a hedge and kept from the evil. Those who break down this divinely erected barrier at one point have destroyed its power to protect them; for they have opened a way by which the enemy can enter to waste and ruin.
    By venturing to disregard the will of God upon one point, our first parents opened the floodgates of woe upon the world. And every individual who follows their example will reap a similar result. The love of God underlies every precept of His law, and those who depart from the commandment are working their own unhappiness and ruin.
     
    Backlit likes this.
  8. robert derrick

    robert derrick Well-Known Member

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    Interesting.

    The Roman Catholic Church is a Pagan Church.

    A genuine doctrinal Catholic attacks believing Scripture only as part-blind 'Sola Scriptura', because we don't adhere to the traditions of the fathers of their religion.

    They do in fact worship an idol and pagan goddess they call Mary, but is more akin to a reincarnated Demeter.

    Now, I'm not a Jew. I don't follow the traditions of the Sabbath, because I'm not under the law of Moses.

    If you are inwardly circumcised by faith of Jesus, you are a Jew inwardly. After the cross, there are no more outward Jews. Many call themselves that and are called liars by the Lord, because they are not. (Rev 2:9,3:9)

    Neither is there outward circumcision in the flesh.

    All born of flesh now are all uncircumcised strangers to God, except they repent and believe Jesus and be circumcised of heart in the Spirit.

    People likewise can think they are obeying the 'law of Moses', like the commandment of Sabbath therein, but they are obeying a lie, because the law of Moses with the covenant thereof is old, decayed, and vanished from sight of the risen God of Israel, who gave it from the mount in the first place.

    Because through Abraham we recieve the Sabbath by faith, even though we are Gentiles.

    A Gentile is an uncircumcised stranger to God. Once any are grafted into His green olive tree, are come in to the Israel of the God of Israel, which is His body on earth.

    The receive the faith of Abraham through Jesus Christ, who is the promised seed of Abraham, through which all nations are blessed.

    We don't receive anything through Abraham, who is now dead in Christ, especially not a Sabbath from God. We enter into His rest by His Spirit.

    I don't attack the Catholics or the Jews or the Hindis or the Muslims.

    We war not with flesh and blood in things pertaining to God, but we do stand in defense of the gospel of the cross, when the Lamb is attacked by false prophets, apostles, teachers, christs, etc...

    We do so by Scripture, judging and rejecting what is not Scripture of truth, but what is tradition, rule, law, commandment, idolatry, and heresy of man.

    And if they repent not, then we reject them out of hand. (1 Tim 3:10)

    The church is the people. It's not a denomination, or a building, it's a people called out by God alone, scattered all over the world. Be they Catholic or Protestant or Muslim or Jehovah Witness or SDA or whatever other name they choose to go by.

    This sounds like some sort of 'unitarian' babble, unless you mean any of these can still be saved through faith of Jesus. Otherwise, take care you don't call a real Islamist a member of the church and body of Jesus Christ. Especially not where their law is in power.

    That said, the body of Christ is His people and are members thereof. The body of Christ is the natural bodies of believers in Jesus that obey His Word and keep His commandment to love our neighbors as ourselves.

    I don't attend a church in a building.

    Strong Christianity begins in homes of strong Christians, where reading and ministry of the Word ought begin and be built around, even as God commanded His believers to teach our children where we sit at home, and where we walk by the way. (Deut 6:7)

    That said, where do you preach or hear the gospel preached? If we are not hearing the gospel preached, as Paul preached, then we are fooling ourselves, if we think we are standing in faith:

    Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand, By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

    We believe by hearing, we are saved by the faith of hearing, and we stand in the gospel we hear preached and do believe and obey. Whether in a building or a hillside: there is no 'church' without the preaching of the gospel by which we believe and stand.

    We are not to forsake hearing the gospel preached according to the Scriptures as Paul preached, which is what we assemble ourselves together for, no matter what building or place on earth.
     
  9. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I hear it everyday.


    And it is the Spirit of the Lord that leads me over the rivers and through the woods of his ENTIRE word.
    I don't listen to other men preach what they believe is their truth.
    Because it is just that, their truth.
    And God gives to every person as they are able to hear it.
    Is my hearing perfect?
    Not by a long shot.
    But I go where the Lord leads, not man.

    As to the rest of the story..
    Just do you.. and be happy.
    And whatsoever ye do, do it unto the Lord.

    Your not my judge and I'm not yours.
    We each will face the Lord on His terms and not our own.

    HUGS
     
  10. robert derrick

    robert derrick Well-Known Member

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    Were men and women free to depart from the Lord

    Only those born of God are free to depart from God, which began with Adam, who was called the son of God. (Luke 3)

    Only those born of flesh have no freedom nor liberty to depart from God nor to serve Him. They remain in bondage to sin by nature. They are not free to choose to serve sin or to serve God.

    Only The circumcised children of God are free, born no more of sin, but of the free woman Jerusalem that is above and God: Free to choose to yield to sin or to God.

    And if one willfully chooses sin to return from where they came, then there remains no more sacrifice for sins, and no more forgiveness: they must repent at the cross again. But if one chooses to depart from God entirely, so as to put Jesus to an open shame and to count His blood a curse and despise the Spirit of grace, whereby we are drawn to God and repentance, then it will be impossible for them to renew repentance again.

    They will be the tree that once bore good fruit in the midst of the paradise of God, that became reprobate to every good work, and so were cursed to wither away and be hewn down, twice dead, plucked up by the roots. They will be as Adam, who willfully transgressed and did not believe God, when he said, 'Thou shalt surely die.' And so was cast out never to return.

    Why did the man allow God to drive him out? Could he not repent? Confess to be forgiven? No, because he did not believe God. Though he knew the commandment and was not deceived in the transgression as Eve was, he did not believe God's Word that he would surely die.

    Them that depart from the living God by similar transgression of Adam and unbelief, so also do they lose the freedom and liberty and power of God to choose to serve Him or sin. They are worse than before, when they had no freedom to choose by nature, yet had conscience toward God to be saved, because now they have seared their conscience, so that they no longer have conscience to be drawn of God at all.

    our first parents

    Not my first parents.

    My first parent is the 2nd Adam, not the first. The flesh is nothing, and so are the first parents of the flesh, except to honor mother and father.

    In any case, our father is Abraham, not Adam. We are not uncircumcised Gentiles, but circumcised children of God.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2021
  11. robert derrick

    robert derrick Well-Known Member

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    I don't judge people by appearance. I judge their words, whether they be true or not.

    You just 'appeared' to be speaking of a salvation of God, that included those of other faith than Jesus, as well as a church that had no need of preaching the gospel, wherein we stand.

    We do not answer to one another, however, we are held accountable to one another for our words spoken as things of God, which we are freely choosing to do in a place, where we expect challenges to them:

    A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject

    So, leaving false claims of touchy 'judgment' aside. Did I read your words wrongly?

    Is the Islamist a child born of God, and in the body of Christ?

    Do you ever preach or hear the preaching of the gospel of the cross?
     
  12. ReChoired

    ReChoired Well-Known Member

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    Oh, see, I knew you would get it. Glad you caught on so quickly. You do not have to preach yourself anymore GE, nor that perverse thing. You can cease both if you accept Christ Jesus' truth and the Holy Ghost will help you in correcting your errors.
     
  13. ReChoired

    ReChoired Well-Known Member

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    Davy, can you show me where there is a church meeting, or gathering of persons on the 'first [day] of the week in that text? I have never read that therein, in any language. It plainly says that each individual person was to gather their things privately at their own home after sabbath was over, when the business week opened.
     
  14. ReChoired

    ReChoired Well-Known Member

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    Davy, can you show me where there is a collective church meeting, or gathering together, throughout the entire Christian world on the 'first [day] of the week' in that text, or where it happened on a weekly basis? I have never read that therein, in any language. It plainly says that the small group at Troas, only, and no others in any other city surrounding that area or beyond, met together that one and only single time on the 'first [day] of the week' in the night (evening) portion (after sabbath was over), to say goodbye to Paul, and to hear his farewell and final messages to them from about sundown till midnight with at least two common meals, and a unique event of Eutychus. Then the following morning (at daybreak Paul walks 19 or so miles to catch a boat with no preaching being done in the morning or day portion, and no gathering by anyone during that portion of time in Troas, or any city near or beyond.
     
  15. ReChoired

    ReChoired Well-Known Member

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    Davy, do you realize, that if you do the calculation of the time that this takes place, that it is actually the first evening portion of the second day of the week? Seriously, go back and read the account by Luke, then combine with this passage.

    Luk 24:13 And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
    Luk 24:14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
    Luk 24:15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
    Luk 24:16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
    Luk 24:17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?
    Luk 24:18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
    Luk 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
    Luk 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
    Luk 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
    Luk 24:22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;
    Luk 24:23 And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.
    Luk 24:24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
    Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
    Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
    Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
    Luk 24:28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.
    Luk 24:29 But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.
    Luk 24:30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
    Luk 24:31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
    Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
    Luk 24:33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
    Luk 24:34 Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
    Luk 24:35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
    Luk 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.​

    These (following) references are to the second day and later of the week (John 20:1; context of Luke 24:13-36, already dark by the time of the upper room, which is another reason they did not recognize Jesus entering with the two other disciples from Emmaus, for He had walked back with them, unseen, and entered unseen, even as Jesus had done so with the two while walking before they had reached their own house. There is no teleporting, or ghosting through walls here. Jesus has a real body of flesh and bones (immortal)) and later (John 20:19) effectively and respectively (contextually, John 20:1 being a reference to a period of time after the sun had set, and the next reference (John 20:19) to after eight days beyond that):

    John 20:1 - (Koine Greek) τη δε μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th de mia twn sabbatwn
    John 20:19 - (Koine Greek) τη μια των σαββατων (Transliterated) th mia twn sabbatwn
    Look again:

    Luk_24:29 But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.

    Luk 24:30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.​

    We can see that they (disciples and Jesus) were still walking to Emmaus while it was yet "day" (light out, with the sun still out), and yet it began to grow late in the day, and the sun was beginning to go down. It was getting near supper time. It was not yet night (sun down). Yet, while they eat, Jesus makes known who He is, and vanishes from their sight (no, Jesus is not aethereal, He is simply invisible to their eyes), and they being astonished, run all the way back to Jerusalem where the other disciples were hiding behind closed doors. Now the distance from Emmaus to Jerusalem, we are told, is "threescore furlongs" ("A Greek measure of length, being 600 Greek ft., or 100 orguiai equal to 606 3/4 English ft., and thus somewhat less than a furlong, which is 660 ft." - Link and thus is about 7-8 Miles going uphill as we would know them).

    7-8 Miles is a long way to run when the sun is setting, going back uphill (Jerusalem, the city on a hill). This would take quite a bit of time, and also to relate what they had seen before Jesus appears. It would be dark, by the time these reached Jerusalem and the other disciples, being the final "evening" (when the sun did set, see Mark 1:32).

    Therefore, when John says, "Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you."

    We know the timeframe it refers to. It was the end of the first day of the week, in the "evening", when the sun was set, which in reality, is another way of saying the 'second [day] of the week', contextually. The text refers to the "evening" at the end of the "first [day] of the week" which scripturally means the actual "second [day] of the week". I am not rewriting the text here. I am simply demonstrating that John is using a parallel language to say the same thing another way. It would be akin to saying the "Robe is purple.", and another person saying, the "Robe is a mixture of the shades of red and blue." Again, it can be said that the 11 apostles were in the locked room on the 'first [day] of the week' (for fear of the Jews mind you), all the time that the events on the road to Emmaus took place, the supper, and the two running back to Jerusalem, and by the time they got there the evening came and the second day started.

    Thus it was in actuality the second day of the week that Jesus appeared to them. Then we see another appearance "after eight days", which would place the following meeting, again, no matter how it is calculated (inclusive or exclusive), not upon the "first [day] of the week", but afterward:

    Joh 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.​

    There is no consistent meeting only upon the "first day of the week" in all of the New Testament.
     
  16. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I understand a lot of Muslims are converting to Christianity.
    I'm saying God will call who He chooses to call, when He chooses to call them.
    And it's not for us to judge another's servant.

    I could sit here and bash any or all religions. What kind of fruit would that produce?
    When Jesus was telling about the good samaritan.
    His purpose wasn't to accuse the two men that walked past the guy who got beaten and robbed.
    (although he did mention it to show a comparison between bad behavior and good behavior)
    His purpose was to show us, that no matter what walk of life we find ourselves, whether we be a priest, a jew, or a samaritan,
    God uses whom he uses when ever he chooses.
    He plants seeds in any heart that has good soil in it.
    Some hearts just aren't ready, some are downright rebellious, and when the time is right,
    The Lord knows how to perfectly plow and fallow that heart to make it ready fro new growth.

    There are a lot of religions in the world that do not seek to plough or fallow anything except their own desires.
    I don't seek a following, or money or fame, or any recognition whatsoever.
    It's not about me.

    There is only one Faith and that is the Faith of and in Jesus Christ, King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
    There is no other name in which one can be saved.
    Not Pope this or Father that or Pastor this or Imam that...
    But each will come in the Lord's good time.

    There is a calling happening in the world right now today around the world.
    Not to return to this denomination or that religion,
    This calling is the Lord calling people to Himself.
    And I see it everywhere..
    At the same time there is a great darkness spreading over the earth.
    People are lost, confused, angry, and downright rebellious.

    I don't remember anyone holding my hand and saying meet the Lord.
    He just made Himself known to me. And I followed where he led.
    And now I'm here...
    it doesn't matter where "here" is.
    And it's not a physical location, it's where you are in the stage of life itself.
    And I don't need to be "required" to attend a particular house here or there..
    Because we are all "here" in whatever stage you find yourself.

    No one can tell me what I already know, and a few can teach me what I haven't learned already.
    But the only thing worth learning is the Lord Himself.
    His Spirit, His Fruit, His requirements of me. Not man's.

    You can lead a horse to water, but unless the Lord makes that horse thirsty, you won't make them drink.
    The same it is with every person on earth in whatever place they are at anytime.
    Your not going to be able to make the horse thirsty... but you can be there to supply the cup of water, or the loaf of bread, or a warm coat, and perhaps even shelter. But your not doing it. The Lord is working through you.
    Just like the good samaritan that helped the man who was beaten and robbed, was the Lord working through the Samaritan.
    He can and will work through anyone He chooses, and not who we think is worthy to be chosen.

    Hugs
     
  17. ReChoired

    ReChoired Well-Known Member

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    You misunderstand what "traditions" therein refer to:
    Instruction was passed by mouth and written word (hence "letter", "epistle"):

    2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

    2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.​

    Paul stated that all things needed to be proved by the word of God:

    1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

    1Co 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

    2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
    2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
    2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.​

    Jesus himself, and Paul and Peter warned of false "traditions" that were already in circulation in their day.

    Col_2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

    2Pe_3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.​

    Others were already corrupting the word:

    2Co_2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.​

    The question is what "traditions" was Paul referring to in context? Made up stuff with no other foundation than devils and men?

    2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.​

    Notice, that in 2 Thessalonians 2:2, this is referred to before:

    2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.​

    Paul already told them in 1 Thessalonians, and it was in regards the second coming (see context) and what they (Thessalonians) were to be doing unto the coming of Jesus.

    So Paul himself, actually referred to his personal face to face speaking, and also written in an earlier "our epistle". (1 Thess.)

    In 1 Thessalonians 1:3, we see that Paul commended them for their "work of faith and labour of love".

    In 1 Thessalonians 1:5 (2:2-5) it speaks of the "gospel" did not come in "word" ("speak", "exhortation", "words") only, but in "power" (Holy Spirit).

    In 1 Thessalonians 2:8 it speaks of the "gospel" having been "imparted".

    In 1 Thessalonians 2:9 it speaks of the "gospel" having been "preached" and also of the "labour and travail".

    1Th 2:10 Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe:
    1Th 2:11 As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father doth his children,
    1Th 2:12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
    1Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.​

    And so Paul continues by speaking of his example of labour (not in laziness, indolence as some were, being busybodies, etc) among them, and in the gospel:

    1Th 4:1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.​

    Herein is then the "tradition" which Paul spake of that was spoken unto them:

    1Th 4:2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
    1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
    1Th 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
    1Th 4:5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
    1Th 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
    1Th 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
    1Th 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
    1Th 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
    1Th 4:10 And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more;
    1Th 4:11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
    1Th 4:12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.
    The Coming of the Lord
    1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.​

    And more:

    1Th 5:12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;
    1Th 5:13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.
    1Th 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
    1Th 5:15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
    1Th 5:16 Rejoice evermore.
    1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
    1Th 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
    1Th 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.
    1Th 5:20 Despise not prophesyings.
    1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
    1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
    1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1Th 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
    1Th 5:25 Brethren, pray for us.
    1Th 5:26 Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss.
    1Th 5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.
    1Th 5:28 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.​

    Ain't that sumthin'.

    Paul wasn't referring to man-made 'tradition' that came along later and passed itself off as truth.
     
    Backlit likes this.
  18. ReChoired

    ReChoired Well-Known Member

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    You misunderstand the word "traditions" as used by Paul in Thessalonians:

    What does our brother Paul mean by the words "the tradition" in 2 Thessalonians 3:6?

    2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.​

    "tradition", "traditions" - bad sense

    In certain passages the word "custom" simply means a positive habit, or repeated action (Luke 4:16, likewise "manner" (Acts 17:2)).

    Other times it means a place of gathering taxation, as "sitting at the receipt of custom" (Matthew 9:9 - Mark 2:14 - Luke 5:27), or giving "custom to whom custom" (Romans 13:7) is due.


    Also, it can mean a bad tradition, a wicked custom.

    "custom" - evil or heathen sense

    "customs" - wicked sense

    There are two known places that the word "tradition" is utilized in a positive meaning.

    "tradition" - good sense


    Brothers and sisters, we should study this together and look at all of the connecting words, and ask our Father for understanding to understand what this means so that we are united together by the word. Let us read the surrounding words, and allow the Holy Spirit of God to enlighten us by teaching us what these things mean.

    In prayerfully reading the text, and asking God about this, I continued to read, and here is what I was shown in the same place.

    2Th 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
    2Th 3:7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
    2Th 3:8 Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:
    2Th 3:9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
    2Th 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
    2Th 3:11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
    2Th 3:12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
    2Th 3:13 But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.
    2Th 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
    2Th 3:15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.​

    As instructed of God, "the tradition" that Paul speaks of, is not "walking disorderly" (vs 6), and to "follow us", being the example of Paul and others, who "walked not disorderly" (vs 7), and did not "eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you" (vs 8), so that they would be an "ensample unto you who follow us" (vs 9).

    We see "commandment" (vss 6,10,12) in regards "the tradition" (vs 10), in that "if any would not work, neither should he eat.", and that this was the orderliness and ensample of Paul's life. This is then contrasted in the next verse to those who are "disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies." (vs 11). This same "command" and exhortation is that those who are presently "disorderly" should "with quietness they work, and eat their own bread." (vs 12) as Paul and others did.

    Paul finishes out by telling them who are orderly to "continue in well doing" (vs 13), as they had learned of his own ensample and manner of living, laboring with his own hands to provide for himself while ministering the Gospel.

    This is "the tradition", the living custom, the continued godly habit of Paul that he speaks of, and was this that is handed down, in example, in demonstration. Work for the Lord instead of going about as "busybodies", who are "working not at all", "walking disorderly", and who expected to eat of the food of the group, when they would not work with their hands as Paul. No free lunch, and whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might,, as unto the Lord, might best sum it up.

    The "and" in this instance means in contrast between the false walking and the true walking.

    Example

    I can say, "Turn not to the left as others and turn to the right as myself."

    "walking disorderly" is in contrast with the walking orderly which is "the tradition" or custom or habit set by Paul and others as the example.

    2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.​

    It could then be paraphrased as such

    (paraphrased in part) withdraw yourselves away from every brother that is walking disorderly and not after the habit of orderly walking which he received of us by example.

    See in vs (7)

    2 Thessalonians 3:7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;​

    The "follow us" is "the tradition", the habit that Paul and others had set amongst them. May I show you? Paul refers back to the previous time in 1 Thessalonians

    1 Thessalonians 4:1 Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.​

    I see yet a little more in that Paul bases that commandment on his own manner and habit and knowledge of the scriptures, as he himself followed the example of Jesus to work with his own hands and to follow the commandments of God in the word of God.

    Paul was raised as an Hebrew of the Hebrews, and thus skills, such as tent making, carpentry, fishing and the like were taught unto the children in life, that they might find the enjoyment and blessing of true labouring, to reap the reward through such. Like as gardening. He who does not sow does not reap. Paul would also have backing for this in the Old Testament texts,

    Proverbs 12:24 The hand of the diligent shall bear rule: but the slothful shall be under tribute.
    Proverbs 12:27 The slothful man roasteth not that which he took in hunting: but the substance of a diligent man is precious.

    Proverbs 18:9 He also that is slothful in his work is brother to him that is a great waster.

    Proverbs 19:24 A slothful man hideth his hand in his bosom, and will not so much as bring it to his mouth again.

    Proverbs 26:15 The slothful hideth his hand in his bosom; it grieveth him to bring it again to his mouth.​

    The prayerful and thoughtful responses, along with the unity of thought have helped solidify the conclusion arrived at concerning the words of Paul in regards "the tradition" in 2 Thessalonians 3:6.

    I have heard others give an entirely different meaning to these words which could not be reconciled with the text itself and strained them by forcing them to mean what they wanted them to mean, and they could not justify their position based upon the words themselves, but only added to the words their own meanings and definitions, to suit their own practices; whatever those were.

    When someone brings up the word "tradition" in regards their teaching or action, we ought to then be more careful to discern, and to ask for evidence from God's word about such practices or teaching, whether it be of God or of men.

    As a challenge to myself, and to all who read, a question to ask oneself.

    Is there anything which I personally do as a habit, a custom, a tradition, even a teaching, or even a thinking, which cannot be sustained by God's word, and might be contrary to that example therein and if so, will I give it up to follow God?
     
  19. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Thus you, faceless nameless 'ReChoired' SDA fearful, reiterate and confirm that the Seventh day Adventist Church rejects as a <<perverse thing>> the Lord Jesus who said He would and accordingly, according to the Scriptures, from the heart of the earth from beneath the foundations of the mountains in the sea - the SEA RED OF MEN'S SINS AND OF THE BLOOD OF THE SAINTS - ROSE : The Presence of the LORD God of Israel First Sheaf of the Resurrection Waved Before the LORD "ON THE SABBATH" -- as a <<perverse thing>> reject Him, the Lord Jesus.

    Do not you SDA use the Name of the LORD GOD vainly, do not so blaspheme against the Spirit of the Almighty. HOLY SCRIPTURE testifies of the Christ of God's WORD, THIS SAME JESUS WHOM YOU CRUCIFIED GOD RAISED FROM THE DEAD the day after the Preparation the third day He said He will rise again the Sabbath Day before the First Day of the week. Every word, Scripture!

    No, but NO ReChoired or SDA <<spirit of prophesy>> of devilish falsity as no pope ever devised or could dream up.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2021
  20. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Preach to yourself you pharisee!
    You can see the tiniest splinter in Davy's eye but the beam in your bloom'n SDA own eye you hide behind so as not to look the other man in the eye.

    WHAT ABOUT Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 John 19:31,38,39,40 Luke 23:50!!

    There the SDA professional and intrained LIARS mimic and imitate and plagiarise one another. Man, even their gestures, their body language echoes one another. If you have seen Doug Bachelor you have seen Walter Veith and Jeff Dowell and have heard them all as in chorus in well-trained DISHARMONY. O no, it's not "evening already the Preparation having started" (Ingressive Punctual Aorist) - it's <<late noon>> / <<evening approaching>>, NIV style!
    Bright sparks falling dust
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2021
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