God determined Adam And Eve to Sin?

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MatthewG

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Have you ever heard this before?

What would be the benefit of saying God predetermined Adam and Eve were made to make the decision to eat from the tree?

Is this true?

If it is didn’t God cause the fall?

Here is what I believe. God chose to create; earth, animals, man and woman. After doing so He had gave them free choice and God stepped back and allows himself not know what they are going to choose; though he Knew what he would do if they disobeyed, after the command given.
 
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marks

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Have you ever heard this before?

What would be the benefit of saying God predetermined Adam and Eve were made to make the decision to eat from the tree?

Is this true?

If it is didn’t God cause the fall?

Here is what I believe. God chose to create; earth, animals, man and woman. After doing so He had gave them free choice and God stepped back and allows himself not know what they are going to choose; though he Knew what he would do if they disobeyed, after the command given.
I'm thinking that God did what was best to do, with full desire the Man would not fall, but knew man would. I'm thinking that God intends to have a family of those who want to be His family, and giving the choice is the only way to do that.

Much love!
 

MatthewG

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Hello Marks,

Thank you for sharing your own personal view,

With love in Christ,
Matthew G.
 

Webers_Home

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It's very difficult to find a Christian with integrity. When a rational skeptic
points out that some of God's ways are unreasonable; the average Christian
typically circles the wagons, i.e. they become defensive and judgmental;
deceitfully concealing the unspeakable truth that they too have sometimes
entertained the very same opinions.

Try answering the seven questions listed below with a straight up YES or a
NO sans excuses, explanations, apologetics, and/or canned responses. If
your answers are too personal, then it's okay to remain silent, but keeping in
mind that one day you may be required to stand before God and give an
answer for yourself openly and honestly rather than secretly.

1» Was there ever a time when you felt that God should've stepped in to
prevent the Serpent from tempting Eve?

2» Was there ever a time when you resented God's control over your life?

3» Was there ever a time when you were dissatisfied with Hades and/or the
Lake Of Fire? In other words: was there a time when you felt those
punishments go too far, i.e. they're over-kill; too extreme.

4» God knew in advance that He would regret creating humankind, and that
He would be drowning most of it in a global deluge; yet went ahead and
created people anyway. Has there ever been a time when you felt there was
something sick and twisted about God for doing that?

5» Was there ever a time when you felt that some of God's actions were
unreasonable, unfair, inhumane, selfish, cruel, and/or the work of a mad
man?

6» Was there ever a time when you wished God didn't exist?

7» Was there ever a time when you regarded God as an enemy rather than
a friend?

The questions themselves don't really matter all that much. What matters
most is whether you answer them honestly; because in order to establish a
productive rapport with God, people have to be transparent rather than
secretive.
_
 

Desire Of All Nations

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God didn't just create Adam and Eve, tell them not to eat from the tree of knowledge, and then just step back. He educated them about His commandments and their responsibility towards Him and each other first(Mar. 2:27, Ecc. 12:13), offered the tree of life to them(Gen. 2:16), warned them against eating the tree of knowledge (Gen. 2:17), and then watched to see which tree they would choose to eat from.
 
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Mark51

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I'm thinking that God did what was best to do, with full desire the Man would not fall, but knew man would. I'm thinking that God intends to have a family of those who want to be His family, and giving the choice is the only way to do that.

Much love!

If you feel that God knew that Adam would sin, would that not make Him a murderer? Of course, that is impossible.
 
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Enoch111

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What would be the benefit of saying God predetermined Adam and Eve were made to make the decision to eat from the tree?
None. That is just total nonsense. Adam and Eve freely chose to disobey God.
 

Enoch111

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I'm thinking that God did what was best to do, with full desire the Man would not fall, but knew man would.
There was absolutely no reason for Adam and Eve to do what they did. And yet they went ahead. There was one poster who posted post after post to "prove" that Adam did not have free will. Well that too was total nonsense.
 

Wynona

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I'm thinking that God did what was best to do, with full desire the Man would not fall, but knew man would. I'm thinking that God intends to have a family of those who want to be His family, and giving the choice is the only way to do that.

Much love!


I agree. To know something is going to happen is not the same as forcing it to happen.
 
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marks

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I agree. To know something is going to happen is not the same as forcing it to happen.

I was listening to R.C. Sproul the other night, I think it was him, he was talking about Satan, and why didn't God just flush everything when Satan fell, and start all over? And just keep doing it over and over until He got a creation that would obey.

I thought that was an interesting question!

Like knowing, every bridge across the canyon will fail, but you know how to get across anyway, even on a failed bridge. Maybe the only way from here to there for God having His family was in a creation that would implode, but that He would rescue.

Since only God is intrinsically good, only God is intrinsically morally stable. For God to create us already joined to His Spirit just be like subdividing Himself into automatons. But allowing us to fall, then rescuing those who desire rescue, this give Him a family of those who want to be His family.

Much love!
 
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Wynona

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I was listening to R.C. Sproul the other night, I think it was him, he was talking about Satan, and why didn't God just flush everything when Satan fell, and start all over? And just keep doing it over and over until He got a creation that would obey.

I thought that was an interesting question!

Like knowing, every bridge across the canyon will fail, but you know how to get across anyway, even on a failed bridge. Maybe the only way from here to there for God having His family was in a creation that would implode, but that He would rescue.

Since only God is intrinsically good, only God is intrinsically morally stable. For God to create us already joined to His Spirit just be like subdividing Himself into automatons. But allowing us to fall, then rescuing those who desire rescue, this give Him a family of those who want to be His family.

Much love!
There is a member named Davy who believes that God allows Satan to tempt us as a culling process.

Consider the parable about the wheat planted where an enemy goes in and sows tares. By the end times, God will separate the wheat from the tares and create a new heavens and new earth with no more evil, pain, or sadness.

Also, some good things, like love, can only happen when we are allowed a choice. Otherwise, we would automatically choose God like robots and not have a say in the matter.
 

marks

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There is a member named Davy who believes that God allows Satan to tempt us as a culling process.

I think of this differently, rather, God allows us to be tested by a great many things, things that are contrary to us.

In the garden, though, there was only one thing contrary, and one thing forbidden.

Consider the parable about the wheat planted where an enemy goes in and sows tares. By the end times, God will separate the wheat from the tares and create a new heavens and new earth with no more evil, pain, or sadness.

Also, some good things, like love, can only happen when we are allowed a choice. Otherwise, we would automatically choose God like robots and not have a say in the matter.

How do you see the wheat/tares relate to this question?

Regarding love, I wholey agree.

Much love!
 

Wynona

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I think of this differently, rather, God allows us to be tested by a great many things, things that are contrary to us.

In the garden, though, there was only one thing contrary, and one thing forbidden.



How do you see the wheat/tares relate to this question?

Regarding love, I wholey agree.

Much love!

Well, my thinking is that God knew Adam and Eve would sin. But He allowed Satan to tempt them and the fall of mankind because He Himself would redeem a remnant of people, the believers, the wheat.

Satan originally rebelled against God along with a third of the angels in heaven. They sow the tares. I believe the earth is like the giant harvest where God is sowing wheat and Satan is sowing tares. And one day, like in the parable, the wheat and tares will be separated.

The tares will end up in the lake of fire and the wheat will dwell in eternity with Christ.

Does that make sense?

 
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marks

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Well, my thinking is that God knew Adam and Eve would sin. But He allowed Satan to tempt them and the fall of mankind because He Himself would redeem a remnant of people, the believers, the wheat.

Satan originally rebelled against God along with a third of the angels in heaven. They sow the tares. I believe the earth is like the giant harvest where God is sowing wheat and Satan is sowing tares. And one day, like in the parable, the wheat and tares will be separated.

The tares will end up in the lake of fire and the wheat will dwell in eternity with Christ.

Does that make sense?
Yes, it does to me.

Much love!
 
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TEXBOW

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I think we need to remember that our intellectual capacity is very limited in matters of understanding God's purposes. Just because we fail to understand something it does not discount God's wisdom. We must by faith put our trust in him.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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God determined Adam And Eve to Sin?
God determined that Adam and Eve would be created naked—unclothed with Christ. And so they did not have a chance of withstanding the temptations of the enemy in their natural selves. The end goal, of course, being that they would be the first of many people who are clothed with Christ.
 

MatthewG

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I think we need to remember that our intellectual capacity is very limited in matters of understanding God's purposes. Just because we fail to understand something it does not discount God's wisdom. We must by faith put our trust in him.

That is true, texbow. Thank you for your comment.
God determined that Adam and Eve would be created naked—unclothed with Christ. And so they did not have a chance of withstanding the temptations of the enemy in their natural selves. The end goal, of course, being that they would be the first of many people who are clothed with Christ.

thank you for your insights, Ferris.
 
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Wynona

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God determined that Adam and Eve would be created naked—unclothed with Christ. And so they did not have a chance of withstanding the temptations of the enemy in their natural selves. The end goal, of course, being that they would be the first of many people who are clothed with Christ.

Is it really that simple, though?

What would have happened if they hadn't ate the fruit? Would they have been unclothed with Christ forever?
 

Ferris Bueller

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Is it really that simple, though?

What would have happened if they hadn't ate the fruit? Would they have been unclothed with Christ forever?
That's purely hypothetical because they were doomed from the start.
That's just my opinion. But I'm pretty firm about it.
The whole point was to create a race and nation of people that love righteousness and who are zealous for good deeds. That's a free will thing. He couldn't just create them that way. That would be fake, manufactured love. He had to create them as blank slates that would choose to love righteousness and be zealous for righteous deeds. Which required that they be vulnerable and open to the choice to not obey him. Thus the need for them to be created naked, unclothed with Christ.
 

Wynona

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That's purely hypothetical because they were doomed from the start.
That's just my opinion. But I'm pretty firm about it.
The whole point was to create a race and nation of people that love righteousness and who are zealous for good deeds. That's a free will thing. He couldn't just create them that way. That would be fake, manufactured love. He had to create them as blank slates that would choose to love righteousness and be zealous for righteous deeds.

I'm very curious now. Why do you think they were doomed from the start?