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Featured God saves only those He “knows (approves of)”

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Zachary, Mar 26, 2016.

  1. Zachary

    Zachary Active Member

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    [SIZE=10pt]God saves only those He “knows (approves of)” …[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]And this has nothing to do with God’s approval of John 3:16 believers![/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]God doesn’t give people His free gift of grace, and then approve of them![/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]That’s ridiculous! … No, John 3:16 believers must gain God’s approval.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=10pt]So, there are 2 types of “believers”: the worthy and the unworthy.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]Revelation 3:4-5[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]“You have a few names even in (your) Sardis (church) [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]for they are worthy[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt].[/SIZE] [SIZE=10pt]He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]his name before My Father and before His angels.”[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]Romans 12:1-2[/SIZE] [SIZE=10pt][/SIZE][SIZE=10pt][/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]… present your bodies a living sacrifice, [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service … [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.”[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]Is I confused … Are the acceptable worthy? Or are the worthy acceptable? [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]More “worthy” verses … 2 Thessalonians 1:5,11 • Matthew 10:38-39 [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]• Ephesians 4:1 [/SIZE]Philippians 1:27 1 Thessalonians 2:12

    [SIZE=10pt]From Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words,[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]concerning the verb “ginosko”, Strong’s #1097 …[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]“In the NT ginosko frequently indicates a relation between the person “knowing”[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]and the object known; in this respect, what is “known” is of value or importance[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]to the one who knows, and hence the establishment of the relationship, [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]e.g. especially of God’s “knowledge”, 1 Cor 8:3 “if any man love God, [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]the same is known of Him”; Gal 4:9 “to be known of God”;[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]here the “knowing” suggests approval and bears the meaning “to be approved”[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]in 2 Tim 2:19; cf. John 10:14, John 10:27; [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]… The verb is also used to convey the thought of connection or union, [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]as between man and woman, Matt 1:25, Luke 1:34.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]ginosko frequently implies an active relation between the one who “knows”[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]and the person or thing “known” (see above) [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]… thus in Matt 7:23, “I never knew you” (ginosko) suggests,[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]I have never been in approving connection with you”. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=10pt]Matthew 7:[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]21 [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]but he who does the will of My Father in heaven[/SIZE].
    [SIZE=10pt]22 [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]23 [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness[/SIZE]!’
    [SIZE=10pt]Can you see that the blue and red portions above are total opposites?[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]They demonstrate the difference between eternal life and eternal death.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=10pt]2 Timothy 2:19 • “The Lord knows those who are His”[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=10pt]John 10:14“I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.[/SIZE]”

    [SIZE=10pt]John 10:27-28“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish”[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=10pt]1 Corinthians 8:3“But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him.”[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=10pt]Galatians 4:9 • “But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God …”[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=10pt]John 8:55“Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]… I do know Him and keep His word.”[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=10pt]John 17:3“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”[/SIZE]
     
  2. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    Zachary, you are very confused. Read John 3.

    16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
     
  3. ATP

    ATP New Member

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    We are approved and sealed by God when we believed Rom 10:9. why are w trying to save ourselves?
     
  4. ATP

    ATP New Member

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    Why are we grieving hte Holy Spirit Eph 4:30.
     
  5. Samael

    Samael New Member

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    I like Vad Tepes. idea of it that god does not help those who kneel in pray and beg as you would not beg before your lord but you must show your prayer and love in service in battle dazzle your lord with your pray and if you gain enough of his favor he shall descend from his throne and cast judgment apon those who have sacrificed for him
     
  6. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    Sorry, don't agree with this at all. John 14:14 (NIV)
     
  7. Zachary

    Zachary Active Member

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    Thou just haven't bin payin' attention ... I've already laid it out ...
    the NT teaches that disobedience really displays unbelief.

    Der are many more verses WARNING about the need to OBEY
    than there are about just simply believing!

    NT belief includes obedience.
    Or, at least, striving to obey with mucho repentance.

    And please, nobody give me the works about "works" salvation.
    Jesus says to obey His commandments, and people say this is "works'.
    Give me a break.
     
  8. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    Zachary, if you feel it necessary to serve God by works, go ahead. Cowboy up, because you will have to keep all the law. Even the least of the commandents. I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise, and i wish you the best.

    I on the otherhand have a new covenant. And i will respect your wishes not to bother you with grace through faith and not of works. I understand you don't want to move up to that covenent with God.

    I also ask you not to bother me with your old covenent laws and how if we don't keep them we really aren't believers. I hope you understand i don't want to go back to that bondage.

    Do we have and understanding and an agreement?
     
  9. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    Why do the children of God worry about the sin problem? Didn't Jesus take care of that problem for us when He shed His blood on the cross?

    In the book of Galatians Paul confronts those Judaizers who were trying to get Paul's converts to go back under the law of Moses.

    I see many Judaizers on this forum.

    God knew that sinful flesh could not become sinless and the law only condemned mankind. So He has established a better way. That way is through faith in the shed blood of Jesus that pays for ALL of the sins of the world.
     
  10. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, H. Richard... You'd think they would be grateful. My whole take on works is that they are fine as long as you don't try to make them a token or proof that you are righteous.
     
  11. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    I dealt with your statement in you're OP. I pay attention to the actual issues not the flotsam that you throw out afterwards.
    God does not pre approve anybody for salvation. The Bible says whosoever will.
     
  12. Zachary

    Zachary Active Member

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    The better way is ... the new covenant makes it now really possible to overcome sin.
    In the OT, less than 1% of "God's people" were able to please God.

    Have you even read Romans 6:16-23?
    If so, have you understood this passage?
    In these 8 verses, Paul WARNS these believers in Rome 3 TIMES:
    sin results in eternal death!

    And he WARNS them to become ...
    slaves of obedience unto righteousness unto holiness unto eternal life.

    Which is only an echo of Jesus' instructions to obey His commands!
     
  13. Barrd

    Barrd His Humble Servant

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    Every Christian knows and can recite these verses:

    Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    Very few of them even know that there is one more verse to that beautiful scripture:

    Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    God has ordained that we should walk in good works. Are you walking in good works?

    And they simply ignore James:

    Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
    Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

    Can you show your faith by your works?

    Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

    Can dead faith save anyone?

    You think that, because you are "under grace" that you no longer need to obey?
    You're just greasing your wheels for your ride into hell...
     
  14. Barrd

    Barrd His Humble Servant

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    And then there are the words of Christ, Himself. Remember Him?

    Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    Do you love Him? I do. Therefore, I will strive to keep His commandments.

    Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    There is much more in the Gospels, but this will do for a start.

    Yeah, I said "the Gospels". Leave Paul for a bit, and get to know Jesus. You'll like Him, I promise.
     
  15. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    Pretty funny, Barrd... First you give a pretty short sided commemtary about Eph 2, then you tell us to leave Paul out of it.

    By the way, welcome back.
     
  16. Barrd

    Barrd His Humble Servant

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    Thanks, FHII. I was a pretty sick old lady there for a bit...

    I didn't say to leave Paul completely out of it, but only to leave him for a bit and get to know Jesus.
    One of my major pet peeves is so many people who can quote from Paul's letters without even opening their Bible...but ask them who Barrabas was or who Herod's first wife was, or even where the Sermon on the Mount is, and they draw a complete blank.

    I expect more from you, FHII...quick now, without peeking...can you tell me any of those things?

    Bonus:
    Recite the Beatitudes from memory...no peeking!
     
  17. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    He also like to snipe and run.
     
  18. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    Yes Barrd, i can recite the beatitudes from memory and even more than that. I know who Barrabas was, but the name of herods wife escapes me at this moment.

    Don't you think its a little presumptuous to think those who believe in grace through faith don't know Jesus?
     
  19. Barrd

    Barrd His Humble Servant

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    Not when they can quote from Paul, but have no idea what their Lord has commanded, no.

    And I told you that I expected more from you than I do from most of Paul's fans.

    What I believe is that, if something Paul has said even seems to contradict what Jesus has said, then we must interpret Paul by Jesus, and not the other way around. It is Jesus Who is our Lord and our Savior, not Paul. No man cometh to the Father by Paul, but only by Jesus:

    Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    I have a handful of books for sale on Amazon...one of them, my "magnum opus" entitled "The First Sinner" places Barabbas as the human "messiah" the Jews look for and compares his life with Jesus, the true Messiah of God. You would be appalled at the numbers of people who have asked me who Barabbas was. I would have thought all Christians would know the story of how this man was chosen over Jesus one fateful Friday morning in Jerusalem...but I was wrong.

    Oh, and Herod's first wife was the Princess of Arabia, daughter of Aretas IV. That much, we are told in the Bible.
    Her name, which was not given in the Bible, was Phasaelis.
    I became interested in her through Lloyd C. Douglas' famous book, "The Big Fisherman". Mr. Douglas named her Fara, but that was not her real name. I was curious about her, so I did a little research.

    Anyway, it is true...most "Christians" seem to know Paul better than they know Jesus, and this bothers me...especially since, from what I see, they don't really know Paul as well as they think they do. Paul never taught that the law was "done away"...he kept the law himself, and taught that the law was holy, and just and good...
     
  20. Barrd

    Barrd His Humble Servant

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    That seems to be a favorite game around here, Stan.
    Still, you have to testify when and where you can.
     
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