God wants to save Christians too. --- Say what?

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marks

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So you admit to being a troll? Why else would you be posting on this topic? No substance?

/
More of your rot.

You replied to my old post, or don't you remember? I find you to be disengenous and manipulative. That's my opinion formed from my perceptions.

So here again, you keep your thread floating at the top but this is how you do it, and then you boast over your threads, and call others trolls.

The irony is thick!

Much love!
 

amigo de christo

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More of your rot.

You replied to my old post, or don't you remember? I find you to be disengenous and manipulative. That's my opinion formed from my perceptions.

So here again, you keep your thread floating at the top but this is how you do it, and then you boast over your threads, and call others trolls.

The irony is thick!

Much love!
Christendom is tanking mark . Rather than trying to find common ground and to get along
I say RATHER its time the last remaining lambs stand up and correct error within the church , correct sins within the church
correct bad doctrines within the church . TOO many are falling for a ruse under the guise of what they think is love and tolerance .
Speaking of tolerance , PAUL SURE DIDNT SEEM to tolerant of sins within the church . SO WHY is this generation .
CAUSE ITS Under influence of false love and false tolerance IS WHY . Under this guise , christendom WONT MAKE IT
but will fall total prey and rise as one under the new love religoin to serve the beast .
 
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Taken

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God wants to save Christians too. --- Say what?

Too much focus on three little words in Scripture…
Acts.11
[26] And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
Acts.26
[28] Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
1Pet.4
[16] Yet if any man suffer as a Christian,let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

* God desires for manKIND to heartfully Believe IN the Lord God Almighty.
(Called a mans work)
( Required to be mans accomplished work, Before his bodily death.)

* God desires for manKIND to Confess their Heartful Belief IN the Lord God Almighty.
(Called a mans reasonable service)
( Required to be a mans accomplished reasonable service Before his bodily death. )

Accomplish “your work” and “your reasonable service” and the Lord Gods Grace, Salvation, Quickening, Sanctification SHALL (according to Gods Promise, Will, and Power) Be IMMEDIATELY Accomplished “IN YOU”, once and for ever. (Whether or not you call yourself a Christian).

Glory to God,
Taken
 

amigo de christo

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God wants to save Christians too. --- Say what?

Too much focus on three little words in Scripture…
Acts.11
[26] And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
Acts.26
[28] Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
1Pet.4
[16] Yet if any man suffer as a Christian,let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

* God desires for manKIND to heartfully Believe IN the Lord God Almighty.
(Called a mans work)
( Required to be mans accomplished work, Before his bodily death.)

* God desires for manKIND to Confess their Heartful Belief IN the Lord God Almighty.
(Called a mans reasonable service)
( Required to be a mans accomplished reasonable service Before his bodily death. )

Accomplish “your work” and “your reasonable service” and the Lord Gods Grace, Salvation, Quickening, Sanctification SHALL (according to Gods Promise, Will, and Power) Be IMMEDIATELY Accomplished “IN YOU”, once and for ever. (Whether or not you call yourself a Christian).

Glory to God,
Taken
Do feel free to remind the love religoin that all faiths and religoins and the world are fast accepting .
Cause the last time i checked that broad ol love train AINT preaching the DIRE NEED to BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST .
OOPSY , its of ANTI CHRIST all right . and it do embrace certain sins too . IT AINT LOVE , IT AINT OF GOD .
It cometh of he who desires to be as GOD and is getting all the worship of men through , the lusts of their flesh .
That one cannot save . That one has no desire to save . that one is damned to be judged already and knows his time is short .
THUS that one and his minsitirs are preaching a false love that wont save squat .
 
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amigo de christo

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God wants to save Christians too. --- Say what?

Too much focus on three little words in Scripture…
Acts.11
[26] And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
Acts.26
[28] Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
1Pet.4
[16] Yet if any man suffer as a Christian,let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

* God desires for manKIND to heartfully Believe IN the Lord God Almighty.
(Called a mans work)
( Required to be mans accomplished work, Before his bodily death.)

* God desires for manKIND to Confess their Heartful Belief IN the Lord God Almighty.
(Called a mans reasonable service)
( Required to be a mans accomplished reasonable service Before his bodily death. )

Accomplish “your work” and “your reasonable service” and the Lord Gods Grace, Salvation, Quickening, Sanctification SHALL (according to Gods Promise, Will, and Power) Be IMMEDIATELY Accomplished “IN YOU”, once and for ever. (Whether or not you call yourself a Christian).

Glory to God,
Taken
Time to preach JESUS CHRIST , the dire absolute necessity to believe on HIM . while there still be TIME to do so .
and do beware my friend , for many are fast preaching another jesus . its not captlized . cause its a ministir of sin
that holds up rainbows and etc . We bess watch out my friend . The lambs gonna cling to CHRIST . our hope be IN HIM
and HE alone . BIBLE TIME my friend . let us stay glued in them pages for good learning .
 
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GeneZ

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That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. - 1 Timothy 4:10 NIV


In essence... Jesus has saved all people.

Only those who believe will have it implemented.


"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only
for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:2​


Why would He want to pay/atone for the sins of the whole world, not only the believers?

That truth stumps many.


grace and peace ..................
 
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CadyandZoe

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In essence... Jesus has saved all people.

Only those who believe will have it implemented.


"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only
for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:2​


Why would He want to pay/atone for the sins of the whole world, not only the believers?

That truth stumps many.


grace and peace ..................
I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of 1 John 2:2. In the first century, when the New Testament was written, a controversy arose among the Jews and Gentiles regarding whether the Gentile converts were required to live according to Jewish customs and follow Moses in order to be saved. The question was whether a Gentile had to convert to Judaism to be saved.

That controversy informs the meaning of John's statement, "for the sins of the whole world." The connotation is that Jesus died to save both Jews and Gentiles. But John doesn't mean to say that Jesus paid the moral obligation of every human being in the world. John and the other apostles removed the exclusivity of the Jewish mindset to include people from all family groups. But they did not remove the conditions associated with the New Covenant, which includes becoming a follower of Jesus Christ.
 

Lambano

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I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of 1 John 2:2. In the first century, when the New Testament was written, a controversy arose among the Jews and Gentiles regarding whether the Gentile converts were required to live according to Jewish customs and follow Moses in order to be saved. The question was whether a Gentile had to convert to Judaism to be saved.

That controversy informs the meaning of John's statement, "for the sins of the whole world." The connotation is that Jesus died to save both Jews and Gentiles. But John doesn't mean to say that Jesus paid the moral obligation of every human being in the world. John and the other apostles removed the exclusivity of the Jewish mindset to include people from all family groups. But they did not remove the conditions associated with the New Covenant, which includes becoming a follower of Jesus Christ.
Let's take a look at this. While the Jew/Gentile question plays a huge role in letters of Paul, I don't see it in the Johannine letters. John tends to see things in black-and-white. No shades of grey. You're either with us - or you're "them". ("They went out from us because they were not of us", 1 John 2:19.)

Jesus is the atoning sacrifice not only for our sins, but for the sins of the whole world, John says in 1 John 2:2. What does John think of the "whole world"? Go to chapter 5 of the same letter. "The whole world lies in the Evil One" (1 John 5:19). If Christ died for the sins of the "whole world", and the "whole world" is not saved, it only shows that salvation takes more than an atoning sacrifice. In logical terms, an atoning sacrifice is necessary, but not sufficient.
 
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GeneZ

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I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of 1 John 2:2.
There will always be a way out....

I'll stick with the Word...

There is a reason why Jesus died for the sins of all....
He would be unfair if He did not.
For the unbeliever would be have to be forsaken without even a hearing.

And, add to that?
The unbeliever at the final judgment will not have one of his sins mentioned. Not one!
For Jesus was already judged for his sins.

The unbeliever will be judged not for sin, but by his works!


And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened.
And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged
according to their works, by the things which were written in the books." Revelation 20:12​

See that?

They will be shown that all their good works could not equal the righteousness that God requires to be accepted.

And, the same way of evaluation will hold true of the believer. Not one sin of a believer will be mentioned.
The believer will also be judged and awarded according to his "works."
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be
revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has been
built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer
loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames." 2 Corinthians 3:11-15​

No sins mentioned anywhere. Either for the believer nor unbeliever. Why?

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:2​
Why are you fighting it?​
Keep in mind. Legalists love to club people over their heads concerning their sins. That could be the motivation.​



grace and peace...
 
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marks

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Let's take a look at this. While the Jew/Gentile question plays a huge role in letters of Paul, I don't see it in the Johannine letters. John tends to see things in black-and-white. No shades of grey. You're either with us - or you're "them". ("They went out from us because they were not of us", 1 John 2:19.)

Jesus is the atoning sacrifice not only for our sins, but for the sins of the whole world, John says in 1:John 2,2. What does John think of the "whole world"? Go to chapter 5 of the same letter. "The whole world lies in the Evil One" (1 John 5:19). If Christ died for the sins of the "whole world", and the "whole world" is not saved, it only shows that salvation takes more than an atoning sacrifice. In logical terms, an atoning sacrifice is necessary, but not sufficient.
John introduced Jesus, Behold, the Lamb of God, Who carries away the sin of the world. Jesus would later say, all sins will be forgiven men, except the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

But Jesus also said, you much be born again.

I agree with you completely, having your sins forgiven you is not enough, you must be born again.

Much love!
 

GeneZ

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If Christ died for the sins of the "whole world", and the "whole world" is not saved, it only shows that salvation takes more than an atoning sacrifice. In logical terms, an atoning sacrifice is necessary, but not sufficient.
The atoning sacrifice unlocked the door that had been denying man of eternal life..

If there were no atoning sacrifice?
God would have forsaken mankind (like He did to Jesus on the Cross) and man would become an extinct creature.

Jesus could be restored after being forsaken because of our finite sins, because Jesus Himself never personally sinned.
We could never pay the price because we do personally sin.
 

CadyandZoe

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Let's take a look at this. While the Jew/Gentile question plays a huge role in letters of Paul, I don't see it in the Johannine letters. John tends to see things in black-and-white. No shades of grey. You're either with us - or you're "them". ("They went out from us because they were not of us", 1 John 2:19.)

Jesus is the atoning sacrifice not only for our sins, but for the sins of the whole world, John says in 1:John 2,2. What does John think of the "whole world"? Go to chapter 5 of the same letter. "The whole world lies in the Evil One" (1 John 5:19). If Christ died for the sins of the "whole world", and the "whole world" is not saved, it only shows that salvation takes more than an atoning sacrifice. In logical terms, an atoning sacrifice is necessary, but not sufficient.
Same thing. John isn't speaking about each and every person in the world. Otherwise, he would need to include himself and the other apostles. He and the other apostles were not in the grip of the evil one, therefore John was not being all inclusive. In other words, one can not argue for universal restoration from John's letters.
 
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CadyandZoe

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There will always be a way out....

I'll stick with the Word...
I'm sticking with the word also.
There is a reason why Jesus died for the sins of all....
He would be unfair if He did not.
Only justice needs to be fair. The one showing mercy can show mercy on whomever he or she wants.

Not only this, but Jesus' death on the cross was not "payment" for sins. I realize that many Christians picture the atonement according to an economic model, as if the world owed God a set amount of "punishment units", that need to be "paid" before anyone can be saved. But that is not the Biblical model of the atonement.
For the unbeliever would be have to be forsaken without even a hearing.
Jesus tells us that everyone has been judged already. No hearing is necessary.

John 3:18
He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


And, add to that?
The unbeliever at the final judgment will not have one of his sins mentioned. Not one!
For Jesus was already judged for his sins.
No, Jesus was not judged for anyone's sins. When discussing the atonement, we ask the fundamental question, "What did God receive in return for Jesus' voluntary death on the cross? Paul answers this in Romans chapter 3.

Romans 3:21-26
But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Jesus voluntarily allowed himself to be crucified so that God might demonstrate his righteousness. In exchange for that, God gave Jesus authority over all of creation, and he gave Jesus the power to decide whom to forgive and save.

John 17:2
even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.


The unbeliever will be judged not for sin, but by his works!


And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened.
And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged
according to their works, by the things which were written in the books." Revelation 20:12​

See that?
What do you mean here? What does it mean to be judged according to our deeds if not that our deeds indicate goals, purposes, motives, and attitudes? Paul understands that our deeds indicate our aim, our purpose, our goal. For instance, those who persevere in doing good are seeking after glory, honor and immortality. Our actions, seen over time, reveal something significant about who we are and what we are all about.

Romans 2:4-11
Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to each person according to his deeds: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God.
What we do indicates what we are seeking.
They will be shown that all their good works could not equal the righteousness that God requires to be accepted.
There are two schools of thought when it comes to the nature of man - one believes that man is inherently good, while the other believes that he is inherently evil. If the former is true, then a simple process of education could restore man to godliness. However, the Bible and our own experiences suggest that man is indeed inherently evil and cannot be remedied without divine help. Today is the day of salvation and those who have been chosen are receiving supernatural aid for their remediation. It is important to note that there will be no occasion for remediation in the afterlife.


No sins mentioned anywhere. Either for the believer nor unbeliever. Why?
1 Corinthians 3 records Paul's position on teachers, not everyone in general.

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:2
Why are you fighting it?
I'm not fighting the correct interpretation of the passage. I am fighting a misuse of the text to support an idea unfamiliar and unknown to John.
 

GeneZ

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Same thing. John isn't speaking about each and every person in the world. Otherwise, he would need to include himself and the other apostles. He and the other apostles were not in the grip of the evil one, therefore John was not being all inclusive. In other words, one can not argue for universal restoration from John's letters.

There is no universal restoration. Atonement does not bring that about by default.
If it could? Then it would not require believing in Christ to be saved.
Atonement kept man from extinction! Being able to stay alive to decide about the Lord.

Jesus died for everyone's sins. That means even Satan himself can not know who will believe and be accepted by God next....

For example..

Paul (Saul) was persecuting and murdering Jewish believers.
Satan felt sure that Saul was his man of the hour. One of his hero warriors.

Next moment?

God shoots Satan down.
Because of the Atonement? Paul was able to be freely accepted in Christ.

Keep in mind. God is making his enemies into his footstool.
Do you understand that factor?
Its not only about us. For angels are also players in the same battle.

Therefore.. by having unlimited atonement? It totally destabilizes Satan and his angels in the spiritual warfare.
Because, the fallen angels will be always know that no matter all they do to get the upper hand?
The next second could explode in their face, like with Paul.

The effects and ramifications of the atonement is not just about us! It involves evil angels too!
And, keeps all the elect angels able to have complete hope no matter how bad something may appear to be.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against
the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Ephesians 6:12​

All is fair in love and war.... In God's love!
 

St. SteVen

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There is no universal restoration. Atonement does not bring that about by default.
If it could? Then it would not require believing in Christ to be saved.
What do you make of this?
Why does it say, "not only for ours"?

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

/
 

GeneZ

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I'm sticking with the word also.

Only justice needs to be fair. The one showing mercy can show mercy on whomever he or she wants.
Last time I checked... God is not a she.
The Father is not "woke."

And, when God says what He does about who gets mercy?

In effect... God was saying that only God knows who fulfills the requirement for God's justice.
You can waste your time if you like, and pray and beg all you want for someone's salvation.
But, it only those whom He knows to show mercy to, he will show mercy.

Meaning? We have no say in who gets saved.
God was telling believers to stop begging and trying to sway Him in who gets saved.
He whom I show mercy? I alone decide who is to get mercy.


When saying I will show mercy to whom I will show mercy, God was implying -

Stop begging me! Those whom I have mercy on depends not upon your will or desire.
I am the only one who will decide who gets mercy!

So with that in mind?

We are simply to be still and know He is God!


grace and peace ...............
 
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GeneZ

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What do you make of this?
Why does it say, "not only for ours"?

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

The Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) was for the entire nation of Israel.
Not just for believers in the land. For, not all in Israel were believers.



Yom Kippur was the high point of the ritual calendar, coming at the end of the 10-day observance of the Jewish New Year (Rosh Hashanah) when the High Priest would enter the most holy place of the Temple, the Holy of Holies, to make sacrifices atoning for his sins and the sins of the entire nation of Israel.

"Not only ours" is God giving all the same freedom in their minds to believe.

grace and peace ............
 

St. SteVen

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The Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) was for the entire nation of Israel.
Not just for believers in the land. For, not all in Israel were believers.
Why do you connect that verse with the Day of Atonement.?
I don't think it has anything to do with that.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

/