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God's Heavenly Government: Why Its Not A Monarchy

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Phoneman777, Aug 27, 2018.

  1. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    "Civics" classes are long gone. Been replaced with the "Social Studies" - a body of pseudo-science that is ultimately designed to infect our young people from an early age with the mental disorder known as liberalism, a philosophy which was born from the depths of the mind of Satan. If you've never dialed a rotary phone or had to get up to change the T.V. channel, you likely do not understand basic principles of our government - and the liberal fake news media is all to eager to capitalize on your ignorance.

    The USA is not a "democracy" and we do not by our military industrial complex "spread democracy". A "democracy" is a system in which the people are governed by majority rule. In a democracy of 9 wolves and 1 sheep, the sheep will always end up on the menu by a 9 - 1 vote. The USA is in fact a "Constitutional Republic" - a government which recognizes the rule of law, not the rule of the majority, as paramount.

    God's government is not the despotic, tyrannical, maniacal monarchy that Satan has convinced many it is, including many of us in the church. Nothing could be further from the truth. His government is also a Constitutional Republic, where the rule of His Divinely Constituted Law of Ten Commandments stands paramount - the Law of Love that He Himself wrote with His own finger on two tables of stone...

    ...and when you grasp with both hemispheres of your brain that our Savior God would not break His own Divinely Constituted Law to save His own life - something not even any earthly monarchy as far as I know would acquiesce to by demand or consent - rejoice that the same Law of Liberty so precious to Him may become equally as precious to us - if we'll surrender our stubborn will to Him - that if called upon to do so, we may too rejoice that we were counted worthy to suffer for our Lord, even to the point of having to leave our testimonies written in blood for the truth's sake.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2018
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  2. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    I agree with some of what you say, but, Gods govenment is a Dictatorship.

    Stranger
     
  3. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    God's Kingdom or heavenly government is neither a republic - in which people elect representatives to exercise power for them - nor a democracy - whereby it is the free and equal right of every person to participate in a system of government - nor a dictatorship - in which God demands every ones loyalty, but rather a theocracy or God-ruled government.

    Rather God's Kingdom is a heavenly government that was purposedly arranged by our Maker, Jehovah God, in the garden of Eden moments after the rebellion by Adam and Eve, to restore peace to the earth, and implement the transformation of it into a paradise, bringing obedient "meek" ones to human perfection so as to enjoy life forever on it.(Matt 5:5)

    At Genesis 3:15, Jehovah gave the first prophecy concerning God's Kingdom, stating that he will "put enmity (or hatred) between you (the rebel angel that later came to be called Satan [that means "resistor"], and identified at Rev 12:9) and the woman (not Eve nor Mary, but a body of loyal spirit "sons of God") and between your offspring (or Satan's supporters) and her offspring (or those who loyally align themselves with God's Kingdom, see Rev 12:17). He (or the primary offspring of the "woman", that later was identified as Jesus Christ) will crush your head (being a death wound, see Rev 20:10), and you (Satan) will strike him in the heel (a wound from which one can recover and was when Jesus was executed on a torture stake but resurrected from the dead, see Acts 2:36 and 1 Cor 15:45)".

    This heavenly government would be assembled with Jesus (and who is not God, but God's "only-begotten Son", John 3:16) as the primary king, but which 144,000 "joint-heirs" (Rom 8:17) also become "kings and priests" along with him.(Rev 5:9, 10; 14:1)

    And God's Kingdom will never come from heaven in order to rule on the earth, for Jesus can never become a man of flesh and blood, doing so would invalidate his ransom sacrifice.(see Heb 9:26 in which the apostle Paul writes that "he has manifested himself (as a man) once for all time at the conclusion of the (Jewish) system of things to do away with sin through the sacrifice of himself")

    Hours before his execution, he told his eleven faithful apostles: "In a little while the world (or all those not loyally supporting Jehovah's rulership) will see me no more, but you will see me (when they are resurrected as spirit "sons of God"), because I live and you will live [as members of God's Kingdom called "the little flock", Luke 12:32])".(John 14:19)

    This heavenly government will soon take action to dispose of all political governments, for Daniel 2 states concerning a dream caused by Jehovah that Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar had of an "immense image" of a man made up of various metals (beginning with ancient Babylon as the "head of gold", Dan 2:38): "In the days of those kings (or the last world power of the ' feet and toes of clay and iron ' which is the dual world power of Britain/America, for all the other kingdoms had passed off the scene) the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people (like political governments that are constantly changing or disappearing). It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever".(Dan 2:44)

    At Daniel 2:45, it shows the source of God's Kingdom (called ' a stone cut out, not by hands ' or not built through human or political means, Dan 2:34), stating: "Just as you saw that out of the mountain (Jehovah's universal sovereignty) a stone was cut (God's Kingdom) not by hands, and that it crushed the iron, the copper, the clay, the silver, and the gold. The Grand God has made known to the king (Nebuchadnezzar) what will happen in the future. The dream is true, and its interpretation is trustworthy".

    We are living during the "final part of the days" in which God's Kingdom has been established (Dan 2:28) and will soon take decisive action to dispose of all political governments, after they have accomplished their "assignment" of destroying all the religions of the world (see Rev 17:12, 16, 17), given the mystic name of Babylon the Great by God, a "prostitute" that has symbolically ridden on the back of the political governments, influencing their movements in her favor.(see Rev 17:3)
     
  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    No it is NOT a monarchy but a THEOCRACY which is definitely not "despotic, tyrannical, maniacal".

    The word theocracy originates from the Greek θεοκρατία meaning "the rule of God". This in turn derives from θεός (theos), meaning "God", and κρατέω (krateo), meaning "to rule."
     
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  5. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    You're carpet bombing this land of confusion with Truth Ordnance now, brother.:cool:
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
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  6. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    It's a republic in an extremely limited sense - (sons of God in Job are cosmic representatives of their unfallen worlds, with Satan appearing as the representative of Earth) but we can't say for sure by whom they're appointed. I agree with Enoch111 that it's a Theocracy which operates according to a Divinely established Constitution - the Ten Commandments.
     
  7. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    God's Kingdom is not a republic, even in an extremely limited sense, for Jehovah will not allow any trace of human governmental thinking to be implemented in his perfect governmental system. For example, in making an altar to use in worship of Jehovah, Exodus 20 states that "if you make an altar of stones for me, you must not build it using stones cut with tools (or through human means). For if you do use your chisel on it, you will profane it (or make it worthless in God's eyes)".(Ex 20:25)

    Hence, at Daniel 2:34, it says that "a stone was cut out, not by hands (or through human means or politics, see Exodus 20:25), and it struck the image on its feet of iron and of clay and crushed them". Then at Daniel 2:44, it states that "in the days of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed......It will crush and put to all these kingdoms (with the "feet and toes of iron and clay" being the dual world power of Britain/America), and it alone will stand forever".

    Next, it says that "just as you saw that out of the mountain (or Jehovah's universal sovereignty) a stone was cut not by hands, and that it crushed the iron, the copper, the clay, the silver, and the gold". Thus, God's Kingdom has not one trace of human governmental structure in it, but is pure in it being a theocracy or God ruled, with all judicial, legislative, and executive authority resting with Jehovah, whereby Isaiah 33:22 states: "For Jehovah is our Judge, Jehovah is our Lawgiver, Jehovah is our King".

    Jesus pointed out this "stone" as God's Kingdom, telling the wicked Jewish religious leaders: "Did you never read in the Scriptures (at Ps 118:22), ' The stone that the builders (or Jewish religious leaders who were supposed to build or fortify the nation by teaching Jehovah's laws and guidelines) rejected, this has become the chief cornerstone (with Jesus as the"chief cornerstone" or central one of God's Kingdom, see 2 Cor 1:20). This has come from Jehovah, and it is marvelous in our eyes. This is why I say to you (the Jewish religious leaders who were to take the lead in teaching the nation of Israel about Jehovah), the Kingdom of God will be taken from you (having this privilege given to them at Exodus 19:5, 6 some 1,500 years before at Mt Sinai) and be given to nation (see Isa 66:7, 8) producing its fruits (or conduct that dignifies and honors the Kingdom, imitating Jehovah God, see Col 3:9, 10). Also, the person falling on this stone (or God's Kingdom) will be shattered. As for anyone on whom it falls, it will crush him".(Matt 21:42-44)

    Thus, God's Kingdom is a pure theocracy, having not one trace of political or human ideology within it.
     
  8. larry2

    larry2 Active Member

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    Good morning Brother Phoneman777.

    2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, . . .
    Gal 3:21 . . . if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

    I also read in Rom 13:1-2 referring to the laws and government we’re under were given us by God.
    1 Romans 13:1-2 "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God."
     
  9. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    Hi larry2, yes the Ten Commandments are a "ministry of death" - to those who attempt to obtain eternal life by obeying them. Those of us who make Jesus both our Savior from sin and our Lord to obey - and have not been seduced by the fake "Jesus Lite" which is all Savior but no Lord - find obedience to the Ten Commandments a delight, as Paul says, "I delight in the Law of God after the inward man."
     
  10. larry2

    larry2 Active Member

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    Hi Phoneman777, and thanks for your reply.

    I reckon what I see in your testimony is something similar to SDA, or possibly Herbert W. Armstrong Radio Church of God ministries. I've talked with both over the years, and mostly in disagreement with their doctrines, but I've never went to the point of outright debate as to their love of God. SDA attempted to convince me in Sabbath keeping, and eating, or not drinking and eating certain foods as influencing my spirituality.

    On such matters I normally refer to Rom 14:1-3 & 5.
    Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
    Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
    Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
    Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. It's our conscience keeping most from having a fully overcoming life to win Christ as our bridegroom.

    We have brethren with all manner of doctrines differing from one another. Let's just run three separate scriptures describing how we may be saved.
    Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Would you say that Israel needed to change how they attempted to reach heaven? and yet if they did this, weren't they saved?
    Exactly what is that gift of God? Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Is eternal life really eternal?

    Then we come to the keeper of the prison.
    Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
    Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Those of the prison keeper's family will be saved the same way. Would you consider them saved?

    And the last example I will bring forth is that of Rom 10:13.
    Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. I think I read that you were a soldier, and as such probably familar with the term "There are no atheists in foxholes." Do all near death call out to God? I have no idea, but it's possible.
    Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?

    Blessings in christ Jesus. :)
     
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  11. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    Is God the author of confusion? Of course not. So, if we interpret these verses in such a way as to create confusion, we may know we are misinterpreting Scripture.

    If we claim Paul's words here do away with the Ten Commandments, we make the Bible contradict itself, for the Ten Commandments are repeated in the NT. If we say these verses apply to the MOSAIC LAW of ceremonies and sacrifices, we make no such contradiction.
     
  12. larry2

    larry2 Active Member

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    Used properly as they were intended, the law is of great benefit. If you think keeping a day for instance gives, or keeps life I think you're wrong.
    Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

    First we need to realize that Paul's gospel was Jesus' words revealed to him (Gal 1:11-12). You seem to make light of Paul's gospel which was fulfilled, and hidden from ages and generations (Col 1:25-26), and the man coming to Christ saying that he had kept all the law wasn't sufficient: Sell all you have, give to the poor and follow Christ? Have you done that?

    What happens when you break even one commandment? Are you lost? Did Old Testament believers lose their salvation when they sinned? Just what do you think Paul is talking of when he wrote of God receiving those that regard a day, and others don't in Rom 14:6?

    You've got my interest. :)
     
  13. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

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    its the matrix, fallen technolegy christians have been plucked tho Eph 1:13-14
     
  14. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    I agree righteousness cannot be obtained by works. Jesus refers to those who do "all that your heavenly Father commands" as "unprofitable servants". How much less "profitable" are the imperfect works of we who, like stumbling children learning to walk, render imperfect obedience to God? We cannot bargain our way out of eternal damnation because the only thing we can bring to the bargaining table is a lost soul. That's why salvation is by grace through faith, not of our works.

    But, extrapolating this truth to excuse disobedience is what I fight, because it's not Biblical. We're to "go and sin no more". We're to "be ye holy even as your heavenly Father is holy" - which includes obeying His commands. The Ten Commandments are the standard in the Judgment - the outward evidence of the inward conversion. Not the means to obtain salvation, but the evidence of having obtained. When we stand before God the only thing He'll want to know is "did you keep My law?"

    To recoil in horror at that is to believe the unsaved can obey - but "the carnal mind is enmity with God. It is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." (Romans 8:7) The only ones who can obey God's law are those who have asked Jesus in their heart, who have accepted His sacrifice as atonement for their own sin, who trust in the grace of Jesus to cover their imperfections as they "grow in grace". Continually. Whether the sinner says, "I reject Your invitation", or whether the saints says, "This far and no further, Lord" - both attitudes lead to the Lake of Fire. But, "he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved." Ephesians 2:8-10 says it all: we are "His workmanship in Christ Jesus, created unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
     
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  15. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

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    which is savior and all Lord. it not easy to believe in the matrix i guess. too many works, not enough Jesus. non-osas i would think is a mental disorder too, good thread phone educational

    Matt 11:30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

    Rom 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

    Matt 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  16. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

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    If you're trying to keep yourself out of hell by following the 10 commandments, or your laundry list of righteous things to do then it's works.
     
  17. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

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    Motivation. The most misunderstood concept in all of theology.

    Some claim any motivation whatsoever to live right is sinfully co-mingling grace and works - not knowing grace produces them.
    Others mistake good works motivated by love for God as merely premiums on a Lake of Fire insurance policy.
    Still others presumptuously claim ability to discern what motivates another's heart - and judge after being told to "judge not."

    They think "resting in Christ Jesus" replaces "motivation" with "stagnantation"...as if the Biblical example of "Godly servant" has evolved into something of modern day organized labor comprised of lazy union members who render nothing but lip service.
     
  18. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

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    No, believers don't think that. Believers pretty much think the opposite of whatever you're peddling. Mainly because they already know they're continually saved by grace and not works in their walk. You have to obtain grace first in order to be thankful for it. God bless.
     
  19. larry2

    larry2 Active Member

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    Evening here dear Brother Phoneman777.

    There is probably more that we agree on than of that we don't. There is profit in obedience to God, but to me the law absolutely shows us our very lack of ability to keep it. Like the tree not to be taken of in Eden, knowledge of good and evil only kills, and as with Adam and Eve, God's grace clothed them; it cost blood to redeem them. Did Abel know of it, and its consequence? yes he did and offered a sacrifice in Gen 4:4 pleasing to God; the firstling of Abel's flock representing Jesus.

    I did read the remainder of your reply, and would surely enjoy discussing your ideas, but would like to take one idea at a time lest we just have much said and little understood. God bless you in Jesus' name. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  20. Stumpmaster

    Stumpmaster Active Member

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    Hi Phoneman, A worthy topic. May I call attention to these verses as to where our walk with the Lord is heading for us. It is clear in Scripture that as we abide in Christ so we also share in His sovereignty and administration as kings and priests.
    Rev 1:5-6
    (5) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
    (6) And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

    Rev 5:9-10
    (9) And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
    (10) And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

    Rev 20:6
    (6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
    Dan 7:27
    (27) And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
     
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