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God's Promise To Abraham: By Faith

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Davy, Mar 29, 2019.

  1. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    The original Promise of Salvation which God first gave Abraham, was 430 years PRIOR to God giving the law to Israel through Moses...

    Gal 3:16-18
    16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
    17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
    18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
    KJV


    Verse 17 is especially to the point. The old covenant of the law, which was given 430 years AFTER God's Promise to Abraham, cannot annul that early Promise by Faith. Abraham believed God and God counted it to him as righteousness. And likewise all peoples that have believed The Gospel like Abraham did, have become the children of Abraham...

    Gal 3:6-7
    6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
    7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
    KJV

    Gal 3:13-14
    13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
    14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
    KJV

    Gal 3:26-29
    26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

    27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
    28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
    29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
    KJV


    Did you know that The Gospel of Jesus Christ was preached to Abraham? -

    Gal 3:7-9
    7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
    8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

    9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
    KJV


    Even as our Lord Jesus was questioned by the blind Jews in Jerusalem about seeing Abraham, and He said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad." (John 8:56).


    Do you know what this reveals?

    It reveals that all this time, since the days of Abraham, The Gospel of Jesus Christ is what Israel's duty and purpose was always about.

    Yet the unbelievers of Israel are somehow seen as its mysterious inheritors of the kingdom, yet they want nothing to do with The Gospel of Jesus Christ! Many of today's orthodox Jews would believe on Jesus Christ if this truth about Abraham's Faith in The Gospel of Jesus Christ were not hidden from them.
     
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  2. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    first, Good post. second, may we add this. the Gentiles was covenant with Abraham in Faith while Israel was still in his LOINS,
    Genesis 17:9 "And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. (all those in Christ Jesus)
    Genesis 17:10 "This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
    Genesis 17:11 "And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
    Genesis 17:12 "And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
    Genesis 17:13 "He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
    Genesis 17:14 "And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
    Genesis 17:15 "And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.Genesis 17:16 "And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

    PICJAG.
     
  3. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    You might want to read Deut. 28:2. And then slip on down to verse 15. This was not an unlimited "gimmie contract." There were two sides that required upholding...… and it was invalid if either party failed to come through. In fact, there were penalty clauses.

    I think Israel failed to come through.
     
  4. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    I hope that I'm not in error here, but I believe Davy in the OP was refering to the everlatiing Promise of eternal life, and not to the physical promise land of milk and honey.

    but even in that I don't believe that they failed in that. for the promise contain blessing, and those blessing, Galatians 3:7 "Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
    Galatians 3:8 "And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
    Galatians 3:9 "So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

    so being faithful we're blessed, even the children of Israel. because the promise was based on God and not men, scripture,

    Hebrews 6:13 "For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself. let's see it,
    Genesis 17:1 "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
    Genesis 17:2 "And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
    Genesis 17:3 "And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
    Genesis 17:4 "As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
    Genesis 17:5 "Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
    Genesis 17:6 "And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

    God made this covenant, and it was his end of both bargains to keep. Hebrews 6:13 "For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself". let's see it. Genesis 22:15 "And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
    Genesis 22:16 "And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
    Genesis 22:17 "That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
    Genesis 22:18 "And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

    PICJAG.
     
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  5. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Who among Christians sees unbelieving Jews as "inheritors" of the Kingdom of God? The New Testament makes it plain that they forfeited salvation by their own unbelief, and it caused the apostle Paul great sorrow of heart. He was even willing to be damned if they could be saved. And the fact that each and every Jew was not saved by so-called "irresistible grace" tells us that the theory of Unconditional Election is bogus.

    At the same time, Christians should understand that AFTER the Second Coming of Christ, all unbelieving Jews worldwide will be given an opportunity to repent and be converted, in order to enter into the visible, physical and spiritual Kingdom of God during the Millennium. This too is within the Abrahamic Covenant (which those who hold to Replacement Theology conveniently forget). Under that covenant the land of "Greater Israel" (from the Nile to the Euphrates) will be given over to the twelve tribes of Israel (regenerated, redeemed, and restored) in perpetuity.
     
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  6. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    If you mean salvation by promise, that has existed since Adam and Eve.

    If you mean by blood not until Christ died on the cross.

    But in the eyes of God there is no distinction. They both are sure. Just like he promised Jesus Christ who was not a reality until the incarnation.

    No one has ever lived that did not have a way to obtain salvation.
     
  7. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Oh how wrong can the "Good Christians" get? How much do we really understand God's purposes in the preaching of His salvation promises to all the nations of the earth?

    How much do we understand that the giving of dominion over the "Promised Land" has already occurred and because of the Sin of idolatrous worship of Idols, their iniquities of the first two ages of the Israelites existence has been visited upon the Israelites during the third and fourth Age of their existence and they were forcibly removed from the promised land and have been scattered all over the earth, even so to speak, to the four corners of the earth.

    The time of this visitation of the iniquities of the fathers upon their children and their children's children is to end in our near future, when Israel will send a delegation, after Satan who is going away for a time and claiming that he will return having gained a kingdom, that they no longer want Satan to Rule over them as told by Jesus in the Parable of the Manias found in Luke 19.

    Paul also tells us in Romans 11 that after the full completion of the 2,300 years of the Heathen Gentiles trampling the sanctuary that all of Israel will be saved/redeemed and if we know our history, this also is happening in our near future.

    The Prophet Isaiah in chapter 24 of his Book, also tells us that the wicked heavenly hosts will be judged in heaven at the same time that the kings of the earth will be judged on the earth and that the wicked heavenly host will be thrown down to the face of the earth and they and the judged kings with their armies will be imprisoned for many days after which they will be punished. What is the length of their imprisonment? We are told that it will be fore 1,000 years.

    While Satan and his fellow heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth and their armies are imprisoned, God will gather to Himself the Israelites and plant them in good soil and teach them about the Mountains of Israel, where they are scattered through the earth and will make like new again the Kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nation and His Possession Among the Nations Covenant once more so that God's Gospel of Salvation can be taken to the four corners of the earth up and until the end of the Age of the Ages when the time of Judgement of the nations of the earth are judged.

    So much sloppy bull pads, for people to wallow in, have been generated by many concerning the end times and what will happen but this has been generated without understanding by those writers. They have even sort to change the "law" and the "times" of what has be set in motion by God.

    God's promise to Abraham when Abraham was first told as recorded in Genesis 12:1-3 was that God wanted Abraham to go towards an earth, that He would show him and his descendants and God's promise was that they would conditionally inherit the whole earth if they were in right relationship with Him.

    This promise of inheritance is for all people of all nations who have joined themselves to the stump/root and like David, I will be happy to just be let in the door to be one of the lowly servants within God's household of glorified saints.

    Shalom
     
  8. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Unless you are from one of the twelve tribes, you will not be entering the Promised Land. That is reserved for the Israelites, not for Gentiles.
     
  9. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    It seem that you have not understood what I had posted which I have quoted above for your enlightenment because you seem to have not read it in my post above..

    The giving of the Promise Land to Abraham's descendants has already happened. This promise will not be repeated as you are claiming.

    Shalom
     
  10. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    You are seriously mistaken. The modern nation-state of Israel occupies a fraction of the land mass of Greater Israel under the Abrahamic Covenant. Furthermore, the majority of Jews in Israel are NOT saved, whereas after the Second Coming of Christ they ALL will be saved with Israel. Kindly study the prophecy of Ezekiel, and get rid of your delusional theology.
     
  11. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, your understanding of God's timeline for not only Israel and the rest of the nations is out of wack. God in Genesis 15:16 prophesised the return of some of Abraham's descendants in their own power in 1948, during the fourth age of their existence from the time of Isaac's birth.

    There are other prophecies which speak of God's gathering of Israel to Himself and His planting of them in good fertile soil where they can draw nutrition from God to become the people He intended them to be still scattered throughout the whole earth.

    When you demonstrate that your understanding is in line with God's prophetic word concerning Israel, then I will gladly converse with you about the end times.

    Until then

    Shalom
     
  12. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    No. The Zionist nation-state of Israel (established in 1948) was TOTALLY SECULAR and rejected both Jesus the Messiah, and any other Messiah.

    It is only AFTER the Second Coming of Christ that the prophecies concerning redeemed and restored Israel will come to pass.

    For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. (Rom 11:25-27)

    This is a prophecy for the future, because the fulness of the Gentiles within the Church has not been completed. We are still in the Age of Grace, the Gospel Age.
     
  13. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    What I had said was that Abraham's descendants returned to the land in 1948 in their own strength, i.e. a secular return without any help from God, however, it was still an attempt to reconnect with God on their terms and not on God's terms.

    This statement shows that your timeline understanding of God's prophetic word is flawed. The second coming of Christ is at the very end of the Age of the Ages, in our distant future, whereas it seems to me that you are suggesting that the "Second Advent/coming" will occur in our near future, which is why I am suggesting that your timeline understanding is flawed.

    Again, the translation/understanding of the original Greek text reflects the replacement theology of the translators and is focused on the wrong outcome. The focus of this short statement, "ἄχρι τὸ πλήρωμα τῶν ἐθνῶν εἰσέλθῃ" is about "the full 2,300 years of the prophesied trampling of the sanctuary of God by the heathen gentiles being completed," after which, all of Israel will be saved. It is not about the number of Gentiles that will come into the "church" before any Israelites will be saved. The number of Gentiles that will come into God's assembly after the redemption of Israel occurs, will far exceed the number of Gentile Christians that will be saved before Israel will be redeemed.

    It is for this reason that I can demonstrate that yours and the translators understanding is flawed.

    Shalom
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  14. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    You are contradicting Scripture and making up your own timeline.

    The Second Coming of Christ will indeed be in the relatively near future, because it follows immediately upon the Great Tribulation and its aftermath, which is not too far distant as we read and study the Olivet Discourse.

    Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Matthew 24:29,30)

    So where do people come up with these bizarre ideas as expressed by you?
     
  15. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Oh Enoch111, it is indeed you who has placed the above quote from Matthew 24:29-30 in the wrong timeframe with respect to this present time.

    Let us quote a little more of the passage: -

    Matthew 24:15-31 The Great Tribulation
    (Mark 13:14-23; Luke 17:23,24,37; 21:20-24)


    15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.

    23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

    26 "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

    The Coming of the Son of Man
    (Mark 13:24-27; Luke 21:25-28)

    29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
    The knowledge of when the tribulation will occur is indeed given for us in the expanded scriptures above, but your understanding of when the tribulations will occur is were our differences occur.

    I do not believe in the pre-trib rapture and so have no need to place the above verses 29-31 in accordance with the pre-trib rapture theory in our near future.

    When we force the "rapture", i.e. the gathering of the Saints, both the resurrected and the living saints, in the heavens as Christ is descending on the clouds to come to Judge all the peoples of the earth, to occur in the near future, a lot of scripture must be changed around and false understandings of the scriptures presented to justify that positional timeframe.

    What you are presenting is a danger idea.

    Shalom
     
  16. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    We'll leave it at that. If the Blessed Hope of the Christian is a "dangerous idea" then we are of all men most miserable.
     
  17. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Shu..................sh! Keep quite! We wouldn't want to scare Jews about that, i.e., that the token of circumcision God first gave to Abraham after the Promise by Faith was to symbolize... that Promise by Faith throughout their generations involving The Gospel of Jesus Christ!
     
  18. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Why, the very Christian denominations today that rush to support unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem, sending monies, supporting their nation in almost every way!!! I only support the nation of Israel in the sense of God's promise to David and to Jerusalem, i.e., that He would always leave one tribe in Jerusalem...

    1 Kings 11:11-13
    11 Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept My covenant and My statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant.
    12 Notwithstanding in thy days I will not do it for David thy father's sake: but I will rend it out of the hand of thy son.
    13 Howbeit I will not rend away all the kingdom; but will give one tribe to thy son for David My servant's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake which I have chosen.

    KJV

    1 Kings 11:31-32
    31 And he said to Jeroboam, 'Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:
    32(But he shall have one tribe for My servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel:)'

    KJV

    1 Kings 11:35-36
    35 But I will take the kingdom out of his son's hand, and will give it unto thee, even ten tribes.
    36 And unto his son will I give one tribe, that David My servant may have a light alway before Me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen Me to put My name there.

    KJV


    So should Christians support the unbelieving Jew's plans to build another temple in Jerusalem and start old covenant sacrifices again, and that is exactly what they are planning today? No, Christians should not... support that, nor send them funds for doing it! This next temple they build will be false, as God is getting ready to send them the coming Antichrist/pseudo-Messiah to sit in and play Messiah. Whoever supports that will be in trouble when Jesus comes.


     
  19. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Shu..................sh! ... OK

    PICJAG.
     
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