God's will, your will, eternity....why our will?

[Stranger]

I am sure I am on ground where we say, we just can't know here and now. But, something to chew on. And I have no answer.

God gave us a will. And we exercise that will. And we reap the consequences of that will, good or bad.

Just as with Adam and Eve, when our will is in conflict with God's will, we have problems. When Satans will was and is in conflict with God's will, he had and does have problems.

So, why would God give us a will, when only His will will be acknowledged? In other words, throughout eternity, in heaven, my will, and the will of everyone there will always be God's will.

So, how is my will, my will, if it will always be God's will?

Just as eternity is impossible for us to contemplate, to me, my will always being the same as God's will is impossible for me to contemplate. Will individual thinking be allowed?

In other words, what is the purpose of the will when only God's will is allowed?

Stranger

 

[Helen]

Interesting post.
I must get off the site now...but I am 'watching' this thread and will be back.

 

[Armadillo]

Will individual thinking be allowed?

If I knew God's will in my life, I might run a mile or screw it up.

Romans 8:27, And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

My mind is separate from the Holy Spirit's mind, I have my mind and He has His and God searches my heart to find the mind of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit then gently steers me where to go and with my free will, I can choose to listen, ignore, fight it or be indifferent. Individual thinking is allowed even when it crashes me into the rocks now and again, sometimes the only way to learn how to listen to the Spirit, is the hard way. It's a learning process.

 

[face2face]

I am sure I am on ground where we say, we just can't know here and now. But, something to chew on. And I have no answer.

God gave us a will. And we exercise that will. And we reap the consequences of that will, good or bad.

Just as with Adam and Eve, when our will is in conflict with God's will, we have problems. When Satans will was and is in conflict with God's will, he had and does have problems.

So, why would God give us a will, when only His will will be acknowledged? In other words, throughout eternity, in heaven, my will, and the will of everyone there will always be God's will.

So, how is my will, my will, if it will always be God's will?

Just as eternity is impossible for us to contemplate, to me, my will always being the same as God's will is impossible for me to contemplate. Will individual thinking be allowed?

In other words, what is the purpose of the will when only God's will is allowed?

Stranger

Jesus identified a will which was not his Father's, but his own. He concluded his Fathers Will was more righteous than his own desire not to drink the cup of suffering. We have salvation because Jesus always choose His Fathers Will over his own (flesh).

What I find interesting is a concept called "the cost of creation principle" which considers the emotional price God paid (creating earth and life) in the known mass loose of life, including the death of His only begotten Son. Free will guaranteed an emotional cost to God in creating the earth and implementing His plan, as per Numbers 14:21.

I assume its a cost He has paid before seeing the angels have a "knowledge of good and evil" which was prior to the fall. It could also imply the angels went through a probationary period where their faith was tested. Hebrews 11:6.

The angels we see in the Scriptures appear to be given a will to work out certain events and help in the ministration of the Spirit, however their will to choose evil is no longer, as they exist in the Spirit of God (ministering spirits) and are His eyes, ears and feet.

I don’t think we can define God's Will as it appears in the Heavens only that Jesus knew it would eventually come to earth in the form of a Kingdom and when death and sin are no more and God's dwelling place is in men and women, then a Spirit Will...will only remain.

At such time I don’t believe we become robots or puppets with strings attached...God is immensely creative and loves people to be problem solvers. He likes to get the best out of His people.

F2F

 

[Helen]

@Stranger Good opening post...food for thought.

I believe God ( as it says , IS LOVE) is a Lover. What was the purpose of creating mankind? I think, to love and be loved. Fellowship, union. He "walked" in the Garden in the cool of the evening with Adam.
So I think that He gave us a will, so that we are able to willingly choose Him!
Not , as so many seem to believe...to hold a thread of hell over them so that they have no choice! But so that the Bride chooses to be chosen because she saw that the Great Creator became her Saviour....He won her heart through Love, not fear.

And, maybe by the time we are in heaven His wisdom will be ours, so we willingly delight in His will as ours...again..prefect union.
That's my best shot!
Whatdoyathink?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I am sure I am on ground where we say, we just can't know here and now. But, something to chew on. And I have no answer.

God gave us a will. And we exercise that will. And we reap the consequences of that will, good or bad.

Just as with Adam and Eve, when our will is in conflict with God's will, we have problems. When Satans will was and is in conflict with God's will, he had and does have problems.

So, why would God give us a will, when only His will will be acknowledged? In other words, throughout eternity, in heaven, my will, and the will of everyone there will always be God's will.

So, how is my will, my will, if it will always be God's will?

Just as eternity is impossible for us to contemplate, to me, my will always being the same as God's will is impossible for me to contemplate. Will individual thinking be allowed?

In other words, what is the purpose of the will when only God's will is allowed?

Stranger

You ask a hard question. Before God I only saw what was good for me. I was in total darkness. I look back now at my choices and wonder why did I do those things; because I knew no better. Honestly, I had no clue the mess I was making or the pain I was causing others.

When God revealed His son and light: it became clear. I was out for me and me alone. Now, I look at others that hurt and grope in the dark and react with hate and fear and control; others that hold tight to the lies this corrupt world promises and wonder how they deceive themselves into believing they are anywhere near happy. It is easy to forgive them when they hurt you because they truly know no better way.

God gives us a new Spirit; a new life which becomes our desire to be more like Christ and less like the world. We run toward the light, not run from it. That is the goal: to display the Son(Christ) because we are born as children of God.

We are told to either walk after the flesh. Or to walk in the Spirit. We either pray after the flesh. Or pray in the Spirit; as Jesus said: Father, your will be done, not my will. As children, the will of God is in us, the will to do good and not evil. Surrendering our will; in submission and obedience, aligning our will with God's Will, is not evil. It is good. The world tells us losing our will; robs a person of identity. We have identity. As His. If it were possible to walk in His Will every day our life would be more rewarding; full of joy, love, peace and true purpose. Not by this worlds standards but by knowing the fruit produced is everlasting; instead of passing away.

One day, we are promised perfection. To no longer struggle against sinful flesh. Our will, will be HIS. We will see clearly and fully as He sees. No more blind spots. We will have the mind of Christ. No more double-mindedness. Perfection to walk fully in the Spirit, not after the world. I long for that day.

Why would God gives us a will of our own? So we can come to a place where we acknowledge; submission to His Will is the only way to freedom and true life. It would be like a son that has completely ruined his life coming under the submission of a Father that truly has the sons best interest in mind; and that son allowing and fully trusting the good Father to lead Him clear of all the destruction and pits.


This world says your status is based on WHAT you possess. God says NO: your status is based on who possesses you?

Luke 12:15 KJV
[15] And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

 

[DPMartin]

I am sure I am on ground where we say, we just can't know here and now. But, something to chew on. And I have no answer.

God gave us a will. And we exercise that will. And we reap the consequences of that will, good or bad.

Just as with Adam and Eve, when our will is in conflict with God's will, we have problems. When Satans will was and is in conflict with God's will, he had and does have problems.

So, why would God give us a will, when only His will will be acknowledged? In other words, throughout eternity, in heaven, my will, and the will of everyone there will always be God's will.

So, how is my will, my will, if it will always be God's will?

Just as eternity is impossible for us to contemplate, to me, my will always being the same as God's will is impossible for me to contemplate. Will individual thinking be allowed?

In other words, what is the purpose of the will when only God's will is allowed?

Stranger

well will as in willing and choice are two different things and are usually muddied into one.

simple if a lion's belly is full, dose he have the will to do what it takes to hunt down food? but if he is hungry enough he can become or made to be willing. if you look at the history between Israel and the Lord their God how many times did He bring them to their knees? hence willing. in war its about the will of one group over coming another's. that my friend is will. therefore God's will over comes all other will. you know: Mat_6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

even in the case of the Almighty, is He willing to be Merciful if one humbles himself? the acceptable year of the Lord surly is a time of willingness on God's part to accept repentance. but that will change, He says more than once in scripture that His Spirit will not strive with man forever.


but again choice is another thing.

Israel was and is a chosen people, the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob isn't and wasn't always their chosen God. it is said that today Israel is primarily secular.

will is not choice and choice is not will. willingness is present in accordance to conditions. God's Presence with Israel in the case of curse and blessing was conditional. salvation to the Gentiles is conditional, it must be through His Beloved Son Jesus Christ which is a covenant. a agreement, that must be met.

but Jesus is God's choice for us. Hence His Judgement, which is life. and any other judgement results in death. and Adam and Eve went by their own judgement, rejecting God's Judgement, commandment, covenant. hence A&E believing and trusting something other than God's Word that they had a choice, but to live the life they were living they didn't have a choice, that life is God's choice.

only the source of Life can give the instructions for the Life given by that source. and the original Life that Adam had that was lost:

when God let them remain in the flesh they were left with the life of dust to dust and ashes to ashes, no different then the life any other creator had before man was made.

Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

 

[Stranger]

Appreciate all responses. They provide much food for thought. Myself, at this point I don't have any answers to it. I am just a beggar looking for a piece of bread. Maybe after pondering some on what yall said, I might.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

i would say that our will is important because earth is our domain, and God will not interfere with our free will. For that i would ref the passage where a believer is directed by God to pray for a certain thing, so that God could act on the prayer. I'll have to recall the right phrasing to quote it, if someone does not beat me to it first.

 

[KBCid]

I am sure I am on ground where we say, we just can't know here and now. But, something to chew on. And I have no answer. God gave us a will. And we exercise that will. And we reap the consequences of that will, good or bad. Just as with Adam and Eve, when our will is in conflict with God's will, we have problems. When Satans will was and is in conflict with God's will, he had and does have problems. So, why would God give us a will, when only His will will be acknowledged? In other words, throughout eternity, in heaven, my will, and the will of everyone there will always be God's will.

God created you in their image. To be their image you have to have the same freedom theirs has. Being that you are a new being on the stage of existence you do not have the benefit that the eternal Father has just as your children don't have the benefit of your understanding. This is why we are in a state of learning and correction.

So, how is my will, my will, if it will always be God's will?
Just as eternity is impossible for us to contemplate, to me, my will always being the same as God's will is impossible for me to contemplate. Will individual thinking be allowed? In other words, what is the purpose of the will when only God's will is allowed? Stranger

God's will does not control every aspect our existence. They have created basic laws and understandings that man should follow in order for us to exist together without generating any hate and discontent. Anything beyond these basic moral and civil directions is where your free will can be free.
Adam and Eve were free to do whatever came to mind right? God did not dictate their every move or thought right?
They were given one very simple rule "don't eat the forbidden fruit" and as long as they followed that one command they had an entire world to do with as they pleased..... music, art, creativity....

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Who would like to try and exist forever in a place where the above are not the status quo?

 

[Stranger]

God created you in their image. To be their image you have to have the same freedom theirs has. Being that you are a new being on the stage of existence you do not have the benefit that the eternal Father has just as your children don't have the benefit of your understanding. This is why we are in a state of learning and correction.



God's will does not control every aspect our existence. They have created basic laws and understandings that man should follow in order for us to exist together without generating any hate and discontent. Anything beyond these basic moral and civil directions is where your free will can be free.
Adam and Eve were free to do whatever came to mind right? God did not dictate their every move or thought right?
They were given one very simple rule "don't eat the forbidden fruit" and as long as they followed that one command they had an entire world to do with as they pleased..... music, art, creativity....

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Who would like to try and exist forever in a place where the above are not the status quo?

God created me in 'His' image. Not 'their'.

Was Adam in a state of correction before the fall?

What part of our existence does God's will not control? All you are saying is that Adam and Eve were free to do whatever came to mind as long as it was in the will of God. In other words, as long as my will was the will of God, then it is allowed.

So why my will?

Stranger

 

[KBCid]

God created me in 'His' image. Not 'their'.

Their image just as God said;
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness

Even in ancient Hebrew it says the same thing so you can deny the word of God but it's not recommended

Was Adam in a state of correction before the fall?
What part of our existence does God's will not control? All you are saying is that Adam and Eve were free to do whatever came to mind as long as it was in the will of God. In other words, as long as my will was the will of God, then it is allowed.
So why my will? Stranger

Adam was in a state of learning since he and Eve had not done any wrong. As I already told you anything other than the basic moral requirements of loving God and neighbor is where your freedom is. Being that we are the image of God and our very living essence came directly from God we are also creators and social beings.
We live in a society right? we live within the rules of our society right? The rule of society essentially boil down to love your neighbor so that we can all get along without hate and discontent and don't we have the freedom to be social and creative as we feel the desire?
The reason why you have a will is that God wants an existence with other beings like themselves and they give you a choice. You can either choose to continue existing as a separate being among all that is living or you can choose not to continue existing and the essence he gave to allow you to be alive he will take back and the individual you are will simply cease to exist.
Consider this, what free society could you imagine realistically that would not have the basic ground rules similar to what God is commanding us to observe?

 

[bbyrd009]

God created me in 'His' image. Not 'their'.

so you say, but the Book tells me that i am 2, and 3. Prolly you just haven't gotten to that part yet though i guess

 

[Stranger]

Their image just as God said;
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness

Even in ancient Hebrew it says the same thing so you can deny the word of God but it's not recommended



Adam was in a state of learning since he and Eve had not done any wrong. As I already told you anything other than the basic moral requirements of loving God and neighbor is where your freedom is. Being that we are the image of God and our very living essence came directly from God we are also creators and social beings.
We live in a society right? we live within the rules of our society right? The rule of society essentially boil down to love your neighbor so that we can all get along without hate and discontent and don't we have the freedom to be social and creative as we feel the desire?
The reason why you have a will is that God wants an existence with other beings like themselves and they give you a choice. You can either choose to continue existing as a separate being among all that is living or you can choose not to continue existing and the essence he gave to allow you to be alive he will take back and the individual you are will simply cease to exist.
Consider this, what free society could you imagine realistically that would not have the basic ground rules similar to what God is commanding us to observe?

I am not denying the Trinity. Your expression 'God created us in their image' rings of three gods. As does your use of the term 'they' when speaking of Him. I don't recommend it. When the creative act is done, God said He created us in His image, in the image of God. (Gen. 1:27) That all three Persons of the Godhead are involved, of course. But when you talk about God you don't use the term 'they' or 'their' or 'themselves'.

Prior to the fall, Adam and Eve lived and their decisions were the will of God. Correct? Their decisions were God's will. Correct? Their will was exercised but it was God's will that was done.

And, in eternity, it will be the same also. We will no longer be sinners and sin will not exist. Our wills will be God's will. We will be individuals who exercise the will of God. So it seems that even though we are individuals, who have a will, it is God's will that we exercise. Not ours. Which is good of course.

Just like Jesus. As the Son He always submitted to the Father. But He had a will. As He said, 'Not my will but thine'.

So, perhaps our wills will be the same as God's will, and if not, just like Jesus, we submit to God's will. We have individuality, yet always submit to God's will. Again, just thinking.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

And, in eternity, it will be the same also. We will no longer be sinners and sin will not exist.

i guess this is a popular conception, huh. Free will, deleted, in some magical place called heaven, that starts after we die. It is the pipe dream of a spoiled child, that is sold to us because we are eager to buy it.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I am not denying the Trinity. Your expression 'God created us in their image' rings of three gods. As does your use of the term 'they' when speaking of Him. I don't recommend it. When the creative act is done, God said He created us in His image, in the image of God. (Gen. 1:27) That all three Persons of the Godhead are involved, of course. But when you talk about God you don't use the term 'they' or 'their' or 'themselves'.

Prior to the fall, Adam and Eve lived and their decisions were the will of God. Correct? Their decisions were God's will. Correct? Their will was exercised but it was God's will that was done.

And, in eternity, it will be the same also. We will no longer be sinners and sin will not exist. Our wills will be God's will. We will be individuals who exercise the will of God. So it seems that even though we are individuals, who have a will, it is God's will that we exercise. Not ours. Which is good of course.

Just like Jesus. As the Son He always submitted to the Father. But He had a will. As He said, 'Not my will but thine'.

So, perhaps our wills will be the same as God's will, and if not, just like Jesus, we submit to God's will. We have individuality, yet always submit to God's will. Again, just thinking.

Stranger

Every time the word freewill is used, the word "offering" follows it. BRing your freewill offering. Jesus could have sinned, correct? Yet, being perfect and sinless, He remained in constant fellowship with the Father and Spirit(until the forsaken time on the cross when Jesus purchases His body/the church with His own blood. Jesus did not quench or grieve the Spirit. Jesus willingly submitted to the Will of the Father.

I think you are correct, Stranger.
We willingly submit to Gods will. It doesn't take away our freewill; it is in obedience as children of God. It is a freewill offering. All we have to give.

What baffles me is what man attributes to our will, and what man attributes to Gods will.

If the lamb was prepared before the foundation of the earth; was it Gods will for man(Adam)to sin? Was it Gods will to raise pharaoh? Was it Gods will for His people to go into bondage? Was it Gods will for Isarel to be blinded, therefore rejecting the Messiah; resulting in the gospel of grace going to the gentiles? What about: you have to eat my flesh and drink my blood...spoken before the cross? That is my question: how is it that mankind (male and female) is arrogant enough to believe he is in charge of anything; when obviously, God is the one with the masterful plan...all the way to:

Revelation 22:20-21 KJV
[20] He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. [21] The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Isn't that what we are to see?

John 6:67-69 KJV
[67] Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? [68] Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. [69] And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

 

[KBCid]

I am not denying the Trinity. Your expression 'God created us in their image' rings of three gods. As does your use of the term 'they' when speaking of Him. I don't recommend it.

I said nothing about any trinity to you and you should be denying any interpretation of a trinity.
Note that it is not "MY" expression unless you think I am God. Read the scripture again;

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...

See words given to man from God NOT given to man from KBCid. Also take a careful note of what the image of God is according to God NOT according to KBCid;

Genesis 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Matt 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female

God has patented their image right from the beginning of the bible. That image according to God and NOT KBCid is;
1) male and
1) female
1+1 = 2 so, to be absolutely clear God has defined their image as 2 NOT 3 or a trinity and Christ confirms this here;

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

The "I" = 1 and the Father = 1 so again we have 1+1=2 There are 2 beings who are one in purpose just as their image was formed in the creation;
Genesis 2:24 ...and they shall be one flesh.
Mark 10:8 And they TWAIN (=2) shall be one flesh: so then they are no more TWAIN (=2), but one flesh.

Prior to the fall, Adam and Eve lived and their decisions were the will of God. Correct? Their decisions were God's will. Correct? Their will was exercised but it was God's will that was done.

obviously not if they fell right? If there was no freedom of choice we would not be in the predicament we are correct?

And, in eternity, it will be the same also. We will no longer be sinners and sin will not exist. Our wills will be God's will. We will be individuals who exercise the will of God. So it seems that even though we are individuals, who have a will, it is God's will that we exercise. Not ours. Which is good of course.
Just like Jesus. As the Son He always submitted to the Father. But He had a will. As He said, 'Not my will but thine'.
So, perhaps our wills will be the same as God's will, and if not, just like Jesus, we submit to God's will. We have individuality, yet always submit to God's will. Again, just thinking. Stranger

Who's will are we exercising right now in order to exist within this society? God or mans? If you and 1000 other people were to make a colony on an island would you not of your own free will make rules for the society? What is any different between what we would do of our own free will compared to what God asks us to do?
The only options multiple beings can agree on to form a functional society is to care about one another even as we would like others to care about us right? or would you think that there is some other method as an available choice?

 

[amadeus]

@Stranger
Effectively as I see it, God gave us our own reins. That is He has given us the control, the choices. Like a rider handing the reins of a horse over to the horse, He has given each of us our own reins. If we learn any wisdom at all from scripture and from the Holy Spirit, it should be to continuously give the reins back to Him so as not to walk blindly, for without Him to lead we are mostly certainly blind in the things that really matter.

Our will is ours because He gave it to us, as I see it so that we can freely choose Him when we do have another choice. God did not precisely create evil, but by giving man "free" will He effectively made the evil a possibility. Adam and Eve took Him up on it very early. Their offspring have continued to do the same corrupting the "very good" creations of God... including themselves.

God's will includes all of the good things used in the ways [plural] which God wants them to be used. The evil things/choices men make twist or pervert the "very good" things God created in the beginning.

When we as natural/carnal parents deal with our own children, we can provide them with more than one good choice for a day of family fun on a non-work day. We can allow each child to choose a good activity which will NOT necessarily be the same as the choices of the other children. This is how it is to be with God for those us who become like Him, when and if we become like Him. But the fullness of that as you have said we really cannot now comprehend.

For now, we only have two effective choices which are mentioned in scripture many times. The one that usually comes to my mind is here:

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15

There are seemingly other choices in that verse, but really they only boils down to two: serve God His Way or serve yourself you own way.

 

[Stranger]

I said nothing about any trinity to you and you should be denying any interpretation of a trinity.
Note that it is not "MY" expression unless you think I am God. Read the scripture again;

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...

See words given to man from God NOT given to man from KBCid. Also take a careful note of what the image of God is according to God NOT according to KBCid;

Genesis 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Matt 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female

God has patented their image right from the beginning of the bible. That image according to God and NOT KBCid is;
1) male and
1) female
1+1 = 2 so, to be absolutely clear God has defined their image as 2 NOT 3 or a trinity and Christ confirms this here;

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

The "I" = 1 and the Father = 1 so again we have 1+1=2 There are 2 beings who are one in purpose just as their image was formed in the creation;
Genesis 2:24 ...and they shall be one flesh.
Mark 10:8 And they TWAIN (=2) shall be one flesh: so then they are no more TWAIN (=2), but one flesh.



obviously not if they fell right? If there was no freedom of choice we would not be in the predicament we are correct?



Who's will are we exercising right now in order to exist within this society? God or mans? If you and 1000 other people were to make a colony on an island would you not of your own free will make rules for the society? What is any different between what we would do of our own free will compared to what God asks us to do?
The only options multiple beings can agree on to form a functional society is to care about one another even as we would like others to care about us right? or would you think that there is some other method as an available choice?

Yes I know it is not 'my' and is 'our'. But it is one God. Not two beings with one purpose. This is why I disagree with your statement. As I said, it rang of more than one God. And as it turns out, that is what you are saying. Be that as it may, we can argue that point elsewhere. My question here is with the will of God and believers in eternity.

Well, this is why I said 'prior to the fall'. Their, Adam and Eve's, will was in accord with God's will. Their will was indeed the will of God. Wasn't it? And when they exercised their will contrary to the will of God, bad things happen. They were ok until God's will was not being exercised.

Your comparison to society after the fall doesn't work, because we contend with our fallen nature, satan, and the world, and choose between them and God. I am speaking of our will in eternity. So, it was God's will prior to the fall. In eternity, it will be only God's will also. So, if God's will is the only will, why make man with an individual will? Again these are not answers I am giving. Just thinking out loud.

If we have individual will in eternity, as Adam and Eve did, is the possibility there that we could chose as they did wrongfully? Of course not because we are In Christ. Perhaps we will have individual will which again will be allowed, but will not be allowed outside of the will of God. Sorry, too many 'wills' in that sentence. In other words, our individual will won't be allowed to go to the extent that Adams did, even if such a tree like the tree of the knowledge of good and evil existed.

I am probably making it harder than it really is.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Every time the word freewill is used, the word "offering" follows it. BRing your freewill offering. Jesus could have sinned, correct? Yet, being perfect and sinless, He remained in constant fellowship with the Father and Spirit(until the forsaken time on the cross when Jesus purchases His body/the church with His own blood. Jesus did not quench or grieve the Spirit. Jesus willingly submitted to the Will of the Father.

I think you are correct, Stranger.
We willingly submit to Gods will. It doesn't take away our freewill; it is in obedience as children of God. It is a freewill offering. All we have to give.

What baffles me is what man attributes to our will, and what man attributes to Gods will.

If the lamb was prepared before the foundation of the earth; was it Gods will for man(Adam)to sin? Was it Gods will to raise pharaoh? Was it Gods will for His people to go into bondage? Was it Gods will for Isarel to be blinded, therefore rejecting the Messiah; resulting in the gospel of grace going to the gentiles? What about: you have to eat my flesh and drink my blood...spoken before the cross? That is my question: how is it that mankind (male and female) is arrogant enough to believe he is in charge of anything; when obviously, God is the one with the masterful plan...all the way to:

Revelation 22:20-21 KJV
[20] He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. [21] The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Isn't that what we are to see?

John 6:67-69 KJV
[67] Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? [68] Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. [69] And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Yes, I think so far that the best that has been said is we have a will in eternity but a submitted will to the will of God. Which in essence means God's will being done. And we have Christ as our example. And without the sin nature perhaps that won't ever be a problem. Yet there is Adam and Eve. But then they were not In Christ prior to the fall.

This one thing I know, I'm getting a headache.

Stranger