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Good Friday?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Webers_Home, Mar 9, 2019.

  1. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Matt 12:40 . . For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of
    a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the
    heart of the earth.

    Some years ago a skeptic asked me how to get three days and three nights
    between Friday afternoon and Sunday morning. It was an embarrassing
    moment.

    Well; Passover and Easter Sunday are just around the corner. So . . . .
    _
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
  2. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    So what we need to see is that Passover in the year that Christ was crucified (30 AD) was on Wednesday, and He rose on the first day of the week (Sunday). That allows for three days and three nights. The Hebrew days began and ended at sunset.
     
  3. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    If Hebrews days began and ended at sunset, then when did Hebrew nights begin
    and end? At sunrise?
    _
     
  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Not really. Evening transitioned to night, which transitioned to day, and then to evening, giving a complete 24 hour cycle.

    SUN, RISING AND SETTING OF THE – ...Dawn and Twilight. In order to fix the beginning and ending of the Sabbath-day and festivals and to determine the precise hour for certain religious ...observances it becomes necessary to know the exact times of the rising and the setting of the sun. According to the strict interpretation of the Mosaic law, every day begins with sunrise and ends with sunset (Ibn Ezra ...commentary on Ex. xviii. 14). This confirms the opinion of R. Jose that twilight is like the twinkling of the eye, that is to say, with sunset day immediately changes to night (Shab. 35a)...

    PASSOVER – ...an everlasting statute (Ex. xii. 14). Lev. xxiii., however, seems to distinguish between Passover, which is set for the fourteenth day of the month, and (the Festival ...of Unleavened Bread; ἑορτή τῶν ἀζύμων, Luke xxii. 1; Josephus, "B. J." ii. 1, § 3), appointed for the fifteenth day. The festival occurred in Abib (Ex. xiii. 4; Deut. xvi. 1 et seq., where the New Moon is ...given as the memorial day of the Exodus), later named Nisan, and lasted seven days, from sunset on the fourteenth day to sunset on the twenty-first day; the first and the seventh days were set aside for holy...


    24 hour day - search - JewishEncyclopedia.com
     
  5. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    When Jesus was here, days were, at the most, only 12 hours.

    John 11:9-10 . . Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in
    the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world. But if
    anyone walks in the night, he stumbles, because the light is not in him.

    This world's light is of course the Sun as per Gen 1:14-18. So then, when
    Jesus was here; day was when the sun is up and night was when the sun is
    down; meaning of course that the three days and three nights of Matt 12:40
    indicate three times when the sun was up, and three times when the sun
    was down; i.e. relative to Christ's crucifixion and resurrection: days began
    with sunrise and nights began with sundown.


    NOTE: Days divided into twelve equal periods of sunlight were regulated by
    what's known as temporal hours; which vary in length in accordance with
    the time of year. There are times of the year at Jerusalem's latitude when
    this world's light consists of less than 12 normal hours of sun, and
    sometimes more; but when Jesus was here; the official number of hours was
    always twelve regardless.

    I don't exactly know why the Jews of that era divided their days into twelve
    equal periods of sunlight regardless of the seasons, but I suspect it was just
    a convenient way to operate the government and conduct civil affairs;
    including the Temple's activities (e.g. the daily morning and evening
    sacrifices)
    _
     
  6. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    In the very beginning, God made a distinct difference between night and day
    on Earth; so that His day on Earth is not a 24-hour amalgam of light and
    dark; rather, His day on Earth is when the Sun is up, and His night on Earth
    is when the Sun is down.

    Gen 1:4-5 . . God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the
    light day, and the darkness he called night.

    Gen 1:14 . . And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the
    heaven to divide the day from the night

    Gen 1:16 . .And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the
    day, and the lesser light to rule the night.

    Gen 1:17-18 . . And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give
    light upon the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to
    divide the light from the darkness.

    If only people kept those God-given physical characteristics in mind when
    working with Matt 12:40, their calculations would be greatly simplified.
    _
     
  7. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    FAQ: Why bother defining the limits of day and night?

    A: It's necessary that we nail down the physical characteristics of night and
    day because so many people have allowed 24-hour Jewish civil time to
    muddle their understanding of Matt 12:40.

    Here's another "muddle" that pops up now and then.

    Gen. 1:5 . . And the evening and the morning were the first day.

    Creation's days are very controversial and a special area of study all to
    themselves. For example: chronologically evening and morning define
    overnight which suggests that God did all of His creative work in the dark.

    I highly recommend categorizing creation's days apart from days on Earth in
    order to avoid confusion, especially when the preponderance of evidence
    testifies that day is a time of light, and night is a time of darkness; viz: day
    on Earth is when the sun is up, and night is when the sun is down.
    _
     
  8. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Unknown to a pretty good number of Bible students is that Jesus and his
    men ate their Passover dinner the night of his arrest. (Matt 26:17-20, Mark
    14:12-17, and Luke 22:7-15)

    The Jews ate their Passover after he was dead and buried. (John 13:1-2,
    John 18:28-29, John 19:13-14, and John 19:31)

    The Jews were somehow unaware that their religious calendar was tardy the
    year that Christ was crucified. He, being a prophet in direct contact with
    God, would of course have known the precise moment that Passover that
    year was supposed to begin; which is no doubt at least one of the reasons
    why Christ ate his own Passover before the Jews ate theirs.

    Ironically, the Jews were careful to avoid going after Jesus during Passover.

    Matt 26:3-5 . .Then the chief priests and the elders of the people
    assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, and
    they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill him. But not during the
    feast-- they said --or there may be a riot among the people.

    Due to their religious calendar's error, the Jews inadvertently crucified Jesus
    during the very season they wanted to avoid.

    Also unknown to a pretty good number of Bible students is that there was an
    extra sabbath in crucifixion week-- the Passover sabbath. (Ex 12:16, Lev
    23:5-8)

    Passover sabbath is interesting. The routine sabbath always falls on the very
    same day of the week every time. But Passover sabbath floats; hence it can,
    and it does, occur on any given day of the week; sometimes even coincident
    with the routine sabbath; for example 2018 and 2019, and sometimes
    consecutive with the routine sabbath; for example 2008.

    It's sometimes objected that whereas Yom Kippur and the Feast of Trumpets
    are specifically called sabbaths; the first day of the feast of unleavened
    bread isn't. It's set aside for an holy convocation which just simply means a
    sacred assembly. But it's also added that no manner of work shall be done
    on that day; which is exactly what a sabbath is all about (Gen 2:2-3). In
    reality, the objection is just semantic nit picking.

    Anyway; John calls that day a sabbath (John 19:31), which pretty much
    settles it for me. But it's a sneaky sabbath that easily escapes people's
    notice so they end up counting only one of the sabbaths related to Christ's
    crucifixion and resurrection. By failing to reckon with the Passover sabbath,
    they end up stuck with the Good Friday model; which of course is
    unworkable.

    Now, when we combine the Passover sabbath and the weekly routine
    sabbath and the difference of one day between Jesus' Passover and the
    Jews' Passover, we end up with a very complicated can of worms to sort out.

    I sometimes suspect that most people accept the Good Friday model
    because it doesn't require any thinking; whereas the actual facts of the
    matter are a bit of a challenge to comprehend.
    _
     
  9. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    FAQ: If that's true, then where do we place it in the chronology?

    A: It began at sundown the afternoon of the Lord's burial.

    FAQ: Then where do we place the routine sabbath?

    A: It followed on the heels of the Passover sabbath and is seen when the
    women went out to the cemetery. (Matt 28:1, Mark 16:1)

    So the order of events is:

    Sunday was resurrection day.
    Saturday was the routine sabbath day.
    Friday was the Passover sabbath day.
    Thursday was crucifixion day.


    FAQ: That's a total of four days. Isn't that one too many?

    A: It's tempting to count the afternoon of Christ's burial as one of the days
    as per Matt 12:40 and John 2:19-22, but don't do it. Wait until the Jews'
    preparation for Passover comes to an end and they're ready to sit down and
    dine upon their lambs before starting to tally the days and nights or your
    chronology won't come out right. It's essential to leave crucifixion day set
    aside for the slaughtering of lambs; including the one on the cross.


    NOTE: The timing of Jesus' crucifixion is remarkable. He was executed
    during the very day that the Jews were preparing for their Passover. Had the
    Jews' religious calendar not been incorrect that year, they would've put him
    to death some other day. (Matt 26:3-5)
    _
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  10. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    John 20:1 . . Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came early
    to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw the stone already taken away
    from the tomb.


    FAQ: Doesn't that passage, along with Matt 28:1 and Mark 16:1-2, prove
    that Jesus' crucified dead body was restored to life prior to sunrise?


    A: According to Gen 1:4-5, Gen 1:14, Gen 1:16, Gen 1:17-18, and John
    11:9-10, "day" is when the sun is up and "night" is when the sun is down.

    In other words: had Jesus risen prior to sunrise, he would've risen at night.
    But according to Matt 17:22-23, Mark 9:31, Luke 9:22, Luke 24:21-23, Luke
    24:46, Acts 10:40, and 1Cor 15:4 he rose from the dead during day.

    The Greek word that speaks of the women's journey is somewhat
    ambiguous. It can not only mean came, but also went, i.e. it can indicate
    travel as well as arrival and/or coming as well as going.

    Seeing as how there are no less than seven verses that clearly, conclusively,
    and without ambiguity testify that Jesus' dead body revived on the third day
    rather than during the third night-- viz: his body revived when the sun was
    up rather than when the sun was not yet up, --then it's safe to conclude that
    in the women's case "went" is the appropriate translation of the Greek word
    erchomai, i.e. the women left their homes during morning twilight; and by
    the time they met together and journeyed to the cemetery, the sun was fully
    up.

    (I cannot imagine any woman of good sense walking around a graveyard in
    the dark; especially when back in that day nobody as yet had access to
    electric lighting of any kind, not even a flashlight.)


    NOTE: The original languages of the Bible contain numerous ambiguous
    words that translators are not always sure how best to interpret; so
    sometimes the onus is upon the reader. Caveat Lector.
    _
     
  11. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    FAQ: I've heard it said that Jesus' crucified dead body was restored to life on
    Saturday just prior to sundown. Is that a possibility? (Saturday is the Jews'
    routine sabbath day.)


    A: According to Luke 24:21-23, the third day predicted by Matt 12:40 fell
    upon the day that the women went out to the cemetery.

    "We trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and
    beside all this, today is the third day since these things were done. Yea, and
    certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at
    the sepulcher; and when they found not his body, they came, saying, that
    they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive."

    The day that the women went out to the cemetery is well-attested to be the
    day following the Jews' routine sabbath day. (Matt 28:1, Mark 16:2, Mark
    16:9, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, and John 20:19)


    FAQ: The sign of Jonah (Matt 12:40) speaks of three days and three nights.
    Doesn't that indicate Jesus should not have been seen until the fourth day?


    A: There is a preponderance of evidence testifying that Jesus' crucified dead
    body was restored to life during the third day rather than after the third was
    over and done with.

    Matt 17:22-23 . . Jesus said unto them: The Son of man shall be betrayed
    into the hands of men: and they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be
    raised again.

    Mark 9:31 . . He taught his disciples, and said unto them: The Son of man
    is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he
    is killed, he shall rise the third day.

    Luke 9:22 . .The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by
    the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and he must be killed and
    on the third day be raised to life.

    Luke 24:21-23 . .We trusted that it had been he which should have
    redeemed Israel: and beside all this, today is the third day since these
    things were done. Yea, and certain women also of our company made us
    astonished, which were early at the sepulcher; and when they found not his
    body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which
    said that he was alive.

    Luke 24:46 . . He said unto them: Thus it is written, and thus it behooved
    Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day

    Acts 10:40 . . God raised him up the third day

    1Cor 15:4 . . he rose again the third day
    _
     
  12. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Ignoring man made Calendars and Time frames established BY man...

    Go to Scripture of what God established as ONE DAY.

    Gen 1
    [5] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

    Sun SET to Sun Rise is ONE DAY.

    BEFORE Sun Set Jesus' Body Died.
    Day 1. (We call Friday)

    Jesus' Body Buried, BEFORE Sun Set.
    Day 1 ( We call Friday)

    Jesus' Body IN Tomb Sun set, Sun Rise.
    Day 2 ( We call Saturday)

    Jesus' Body IN Tomb Sun Rise.
    Day 3 ( We call Sunday )

    After Sun Rise, Morning of DAY 3, followers of Jesus visited Jesus' Tomb, and discovered His Body was no longer IN the Tomb.

    Day 3 Jesus' BODY proclaimed Risen.

    Day 3 some followers of Jesus, have a face to face encounter with the Risen Jesus. (As well as days following after day 3)

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  13. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    FAQ: Why should anyone even care about those three days and three nights
    in Matt 12:40?


    A: I care because the Good Friday model discredits Jesus and makes a
    mockery of Christianity.

    Were I the Devil, the one element of Christianity that I would make my
    mission in life to invalidate is Christ's resurrection because according to Rom
    4:25, it is by means of his resurrection that hell-bound people have the
    opportunity to obtain an acquittal.

    But according to Rom 10:9-11 it is necessary for the hell-bound to be
    persuaded that Jesus Christ existed and that he actually came back from
    death after his crucifixion. Failure to believe it will result in their failing to
    obtain an acquittal; and thus end up in the wrong place.

    So you see, the topic of this thread might be just another bull session for
    some people, but it's life and death for those on a path to the sum of all
    fears.
    _
     
  14. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    Matt 12:40 . . For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of
    a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the
    heart of the earth.

    When you think about it, Jesus' crucified dead body never was in the heart
    of the Earth, it was laid to rest up on the surface; and not even in the
    ground like a normal grave-- his remains were entombed in a hollowed out
    rock. (Matt 27:60)

    So, in order for Jesus to be up on the surface of the Earth, and down in it's
    bowels at the same time; he and his body had to part company.

    According to Ps 16:8-10 and Acts 2:25-31, when Jesus passed away, he
    went to a place in the netherworld called sheol in Hebrew and haides in
    Greek. Jonah went there too. (Jonah 2:2)

    According to Jonah 2:6, sheol is located at the roots of the mountains; and if
    that's the case, then that's where haides is located too. Well, I think we can
    all agree that the roots of the mountains aren't situated in the tummies of
    fish.

    In other words: while Jonah's corpse was interred in the fish, he himself was
    somewhere deep in the Earth-- a very similar thing happened to Jesus.
    While his corpse was interred in the rock, he himself was somewhere deep in
    the Earth too.

    If Jesus Christ's resurrection is true-- if his dead body was actually restored
    to life within three days and three nights just as the prophet's (Jonah 1:17)
    - then Jesus most certainly is the one man in the New Testament that
    everybody really ought to approach with a great deal of caution because
    Jonah's message warned of the impending destruction of just one city; while
    Jesus' message warns of the impending destruction of many cities. (Rev
    16:17-19)

    Matt 12:41 . . People of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this
    generation and will condemn it; because they repented at what Jonah
    preached, but, look! something more than Jonah is here.
    _
     
  15. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Taken,

    How do you account for the lack of a third night with a Friday crucifixion/Sunday resurrection?
     
  16. rstrats

    rstrats Member

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    Taken,

    You have a question directed to you in post #15.
     
  17. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    This is how you get Taken's Attention: -

    @Taken

    @rstrats wants to ask you a question as noted above, but does not know how to get you attention with the tools available on this forum.

    I am just helping to get the two of you talking without any comments on the actual subject matter of the thread.

    Shalom
     
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