• Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

BarneyFife

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2019
8,981
6,219
113
Central PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I make a lot of people uncomfortable and angry because I don't talk very much about grace and faith. The thing is, there's no shortage of coverage on that subject in today's church. No shortage at all. NONE AT ALL. And I've never been one to belabor the obvious. No one here is being deprived of preaching and teaching on God's mercy and grace. It's in massive supply. Oh, sure, there are the uninitiated who need to hear it. But how many of those poor folks actually come to a debate board looking for that kind of thing? I meet them elsewhere and I always make haste to encourage them. It's been my experience that even those who are suffering from the burden of their sin are usually ready to justify certain sins. If being reminded of an obligation to obey God bothers you, maybe you haven't taken the first steps of Christianity at all. If you think I'm talking directly to anyone, in particular, I'm sorry that you got it all wrong. This post is not a response to any one individual. Believe it or not. I love you all too much to do anything other than what I do.

If you think I'm off track, consider this: The "Ethics and Morality" forum has 5% of the amount of active threads as the most active forum: "Christian Theology"

Comments are welcome and appreciated.
 

Truman

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2020
7,931
8,744
113
Brantford
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I see it like this: I got pulled from a storm-tossed sea by a net. I was all tangled up in it, with seaweed and various creatures. Grace came along and untangled me and separated me from the creatures, including some lampreys that were attached to me. Shudder!
The fisherman got me on my feet and led me along a path to a room in His house, where I now stay.
I was thankful for His patience with me and grew to love Him. Not being the sharpest knife in the drawer, I'd sometimes get sidetracked, but He was always faithful to lead me back onto the path.
Sometimes He lets me help Him with His nets. He also likes to hear me sing and play my guitar. He has been around for some time and is quite old, though perhaps He just has quirky tastes.
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
22,814
39,115
113
52
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We had all better be on gaurd . For many are now preaching a grace that is not compatible at all with The grace of GOD .
Nor a mercy that is at all compatible with His mercy . They simply are joining as one and accepting even other religoins as valid .
What a nightmare of a delusion . And they call it love . SO yeah not even their love lines up with the LOVE OF GOD .
 

Wynona

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Jan 27, 2021
3,489
7,173
113
North Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I make a lot of people uncomfortable and angry because I don't talk very much about grace and faith. The thing is, there's no shortage of coverage on that subject in today's church. No shortage at all. NONE AT ALL. And I've never been one to belabor the obvious. No one here is being deprived of preaching and teaching on God's mercy and grace. It's in massive supply. Oh, sure, there are the uninitiated who need to hear it. But how many of those poor folks actually come to a debate board looking for that kind of thing? I meet them elsewhere and I always make haste to encourage them. It's been my experience that even those who are suffering from the burden of their sin are usually ready to justify certain sins. If being reminded of an obligation to obey God bothers you, maybe you haven't taken the first steps of Christianity at all. If you think I'm talking directly to anyone, in particular, I'm sorry that you got it all wrong. This post is not a response to any one individual. Believe it or not. I love you all too much to do anything other than what I do.

If you think I'm off track, consider this: The "Ethics and Morality" forum has 5% of the amount of active threads as the most active forum: "Christian Theology"

Comments are welcome and appreciated.

I hear you! You hear about grace all the time nowadays. There has to be a balance from the Word of God.
 

Wynona

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Jan 27, 2021
3,489
7,173
113
North Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hi @Wynona It's interesting that at the beginning and at the end of Romans Paul refers to 'obedience to the faith' and 'the obedience of faith'.

I went to look this up in my Bible. It is interesting. Good to see you, farouk!
 
  • Like
Reactions: BarneyFife

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,394
31,447
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@BarnyFife I checked my own files and found this which I wrote down in 2009. It seems to speak to your issue here [I have edited it slightly from the original]:

Grace, is it enough?

"That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." Matt 5:45

It seems to me that God has some grace for everyone. We all receive rain, whether we are just or unjust. All of us here have received the opportunity to serve God, whether we do or we do not ever actually serve Him. Are not all of things that God has given us "unmerited favors" [as some define ‘grace’] from God?

“…all things come of thee…” I Chron 29:14

Is not there more available if we seek more?

"For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matt 5:46-48

Isn't Jesus making a distinction here between what every man actually does and what God would have men to do? The grace is there, but isn't an "on our part" necessary, even if it is just picking up the grace and what...?

Is just picking up the grace enough?

It rains on every man, but not every man plants a garden and weeds it to take advantage of God's "unmerited favor" to accomplish something like bearing fruit such as tomatoes, peas, carrots, squash, etc. [love, joy, meekness, gentleness, kindness, etc,]

Indeed, God gives the increase, but the garden I planted in the rocky, dry, alkaline soil of Wyoming on which I worked harder than any other garden I have ever planted bore the worst fruit I have ever seen.

[Wyoming is generally very good for raising cattle and as a source of some minerals, but for the most part, not much good for growing plants which will produce good fruits and vegetables.]

I guess this means that some places (hearts?) will never be producers of good fruit?

Since we are here on a Christian forum on purpose, probably all of us have, at least, been given the potential for producing good fruit.

"...Behold, a sower went forth to sow;

And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:

But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold." Matt 13:3-8

We have to have 'good' ground to start with! Where do we get good ground,
so that when we pick up God's grace and add to it our labor, etc. that He will honor us and give His increase?

"For thus saith the LORD to the men of Judah and Jerusalem, Break up your fallow ground, and sow not among thorns." Jerem 3:3 [fallow ground = tillable or fertile ground]

Are not our hearts the ground, be it alkaline, dry, wet, fertile, sandy, or whatever?

I am no expert on plants, but it seems to me, the reason they do not grow well in rocky soil is that they cannot penetrate or break up the rocks to extract the nutrients needed to grow properly. When I am preparing a garden plot, with a hand shovel or a roto-tiller, when I see rocks, I pick them out with my hand and toss them out of the garden area to hopefully increase how tillable, fallow, and fertile it will be. I may also add fertilizer [dung it] to enrich the soil making it even more likely to produce 'good' fruit.

Man does not live by 'bread' alone, but by every 'word' that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Is 'grace' all that comes to us from God? Is it the same as His Word or His Spirit? What is the seed that is planted? Is it not the Word of God?

Isn’t grace just like the "rain" that falls on every man, evil or good, just or unjust? For Life to be produced, for fruit to be produced, from the seed [the planted Word], aren’t other ingredients also necessary?

So what do we need to produce the fruit that should come out from God’s Life in us? Without God’s grace, without His “unmerited favor” we are going nowhere good, but what and where are the rest of the ingredients? If the seed is the Word of God, it is certainly not the seed that is faulty is it? [Or maybe someone is at times planting bad seed?]

I believe I mentioned at least two ingredients already: His Word (the good seed) and His Spirit.

What other ingredients are needed to grown a good fruit producing garden of each of us?

Should we be asking of God?




 
  • Like
Reactions: BarneyFife

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
22,814
39,115
113
52
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I hear you! You hear about grace all the time nowadays. There has to be a balance from the Word of God.
The truth is i would not mind hearing about grace all the time , IF it was the true grace of GOD . The biblical version .
But most dont even preach that . You are loved dear sister . I have no problem with the words love grace unity
My problem is with the versions of said words that more and more churches are pumping out .
From a love so uncompatible with GOD , a freedom that allows folks to live in sin and celebrate it . That aint freedom , its bondage .
I used to love my sin , thought i was free , yet i was a slave and in dire bondage . OH but praise GOD for the TRUE GRACE OF OUR LORD .
That appeared and drew me to Christ and put whole new desires upon the heart . Desires pleasing to GOD . GOD knows
HIS SPIRIT is our teacher and our comforter and the words in that bible are just fabulous and glorious to the souls of the lambs .
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
22,814
39,115
113
52
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Its time again to praise the LORD my friends . Be alert , be sober and be viligent in those walks .
Following the great shepard , JESUS CHRIST , of our souls . Any other voice that is contrary to HIS VOICE ,
YA better flee it . Feast upon the green grass fields of the TRUTH OF OUR LORD , HIS EVERY WORD .
 

Truman

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2020
7,931
8,744
113
Brantford
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I make a lot of people uncomfortable and angry because I don't talk very much about grace and faith. The thing is, there's no shortage of coverage on that subject in today's church. No shortage at all. NONE AT ALL. And I've never been one to belabor the obvious. No one here is being deprived of preaching and teaching on God's mercy and grace. It's in massive supply. Oh, sure, there are the uninitiated who need to hear it. But how many of those poor folks actually come to a debate board looking for that kind of thing? I meet them elsewhere and I always make haste to encourage them. It's been my experience that even those who are suffering from the burden of their sin are usually ready to justify certain sins. If being reminded of an obligation to obey God bothers you, maybe you haven't taken the first steps of Christianity at all. If you think I'm talking directly to anyone, in particular, I'm sorry that you got it all wrong. This post is not a response to any one individual. Believe it or not. I love you all too much to do anything other than what I do.

If you think I'm off track, consider this: The "Ethics and Morality" forum has 5% of the amount of active threads as the most active forum: "Christian Theology"

Comments are welcome and appreciated.
Grace means that I'm given the opportunity to repent of my sin...not indulge in it.
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
If being reminded of an obligation to obey God bothers you, maybe you haven't taken the first steps of Christianity at all.
Why should any Christian even doubt that salvation must produce obedience to God and Christ? The Bible makes it perfectly clear that those who obey the Gospel must obey God and Christ.

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. (Titus 2:11-14)
 
  • Like
Reactions: amigo de christo

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
22,814
39,115
113
52
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Why should any Christian even doubt that salvation must produce obedience to God and Christ? The Bible makes it perfectly clear that those who obey the Gospel must obey God and Christ.

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. (Titus 2:11-14)
This is indeed the BIBLICAL VERSION OF GRACE . May all take a good long read on this and feast upon it .
Then let one another continue to stir one another up by all pure ways of remembrance in the bible .
They were all written for our learning . That we do the good things and flee the evil examples .
 

Truman

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2020
7,931
8,744
113
Brantford
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I was drowning in a sea of sin. Jesus came along in a boat. He pulled alongside me and reached out His hand. As I held on for all I was worth, He effortlessly (for me) pulled me into the boat. It hurt a little.
He allowed me to lay there in the sun for awhile to catch my breath and to dry off. Then He began the process of removing sea weed, barnacles, and parasites from me. There were some things that I'd held onto for some time that I needed special attention to get freed from.
I am a work-in-progress, a wounded soldier who, as Danny Daniels once sang, "will not leave the fight, because the Great Physician is healing me!"
God is not mocked...sin will kill, given time.