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He is YHWH but why does he speak so?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by sho, Oct 15, 2020.

  1. sho

    sho Active Member

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    The messiah is the father himself, but why does he speak so?:
    For I have come down from heaven, not to do my will, but the will of him that sent me.
    Why does the messiah say HIM? He is HIM, so why he doesn't say MY? Why does he say that he has sent himself?
    Why is God in the NT divided into two parts, into a Father and a Son?
     
  2. sho

    sho Active Member

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    The father sent the son, the son sent the holy spirit.

    The OT was the time of the father trough the prophets, the NT was the time of the son in whom the father was and today is the time of the holy spirit.

    Father, Son, Holy Spirit = Three different persons or One? I am sure One. But why does the bible divides them if it's actually only one person?
     
  3. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Some people will insist that you take stand for a Trinity or against a Trinity. I don't believe that God insists upon either one from us. It is God that we need to please rather than any man or church group. Very simply consider Jesus' words here:

    "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

    He mentions two things to seek and neither one of them relates directly or specifically to how many or how few persons are included in Him! All that need to be added to us will be, I believe, if we are striving for the two specifics mentioned.

    Remember also the words penned by Apostle Paul here:

    "I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
    So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase." I Cor 3:6-7

    The increase in anything worthwhile comes not from me or you or Apollos or Paul... but from God. God may indeed work through a man, but do not presume because a man holds a position or title, such as pastor or priest or evangelist, that he always speaks God's unadulterated Truth!
     
    Earburner, 07-07-07 and Nancy like this.
  4. APAK

    APAK Well-Known Member

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    It is not the Father that speaks so, it is his Son, born of the heavenly Father, as the idiom 'I have come down from heaven' is used. There is only the Father in terms of his Spirit, and his Son.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
  5. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    for he is a "diversity" of his ownself. you're on the right track.

    for God is a plurality of his own self. Isaiah 63:5

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
  6. Reggie Belafonte

    Reggie Belafonte Well-Known Member

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    They are 3 in one or as one but also 3 different identity's in themselves as such. Jesus is Emmanuel ( God with us ) humans as we have a Soul that is such in a image of God, it is that the Soul of a human has the ability to come to understand God the Father, but only through his only begotten Son that one can enter into that connection, so that the Soul in in connection with God, that's how God knows you ! other than that Jesus will say that he never knew you, because ones Soul is not in contact with him and Jesus is the contact we have to God the Farther and the Holy Spirit is that vehicle that does so with ones Soul.

    So if one has not the Holy Spirit you can not pick up as to God and if you do not know or understand Jesus Salvation, then one can not pick up on God the Farther. such is like picking up the phone but you do not know the number to ring some what. Emmanuel is the connection because as such he is with us, not your cat ect they do not have a Soul in the image of God. Jesus only came for Humans because we need him, your cat has no need for such at all.
    Islam and Jews ect do not know God the Father at all, they are only of mans works, they are curses and condemned just as any atheist is, religion never Saved anyone ! only Jesus is the one that Saves ones Soul. he is Emmanuel God with us ! we are united in him becoming his body, abiding in the Vine their of Salvation.

    The world is becoming God less and that's why Judaism and Islam are becoming more powerful nowadays, as such Anti-Christ will only bring people under the Law's of Man. we see such in Political Correctness god being idolised above all morons and we se the morons are claiming such rubbish as Judah Christian values:rolleyes: there is no such thing at all in reality, as it's just Christian values in fact, so what this attempt is about is that Satanist are trying to undermine Christian values for Judaism = Law ! they are working to undermine Grace and Jesus Christ in fact, the devil is in the detail of such works. that's why you see the push for the second coming with such people. such people are not Saved and they are trying to create their own jesus but such will be the Devil who will become a one world Government. a so called Jewish god will be portrayed, just like the one that the Pharisees governing body wanted to create, but Jesus Christ got in their way at the time. such people nowadays are just as cunning and ruthless as the Pharisees.
    we even see Pope Frances is in bed with them and he was seen on TV pledging himself submitting to Lord Rothschild just as a RC priest does with the Pope sitting in the chair and kissing his ring.
     
  7. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    So its ok to believe in the god of Islam or the god of jehovah witness or the mormon god correct ?

    It sounds like they all have the same god by your above comments. What or who is a false god, a false christ ?
     
  8. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    There's only one Christ. Only one Son of God.

    A person/s may have a good or super poor understanding of Him, but that doesn't somehow make another Son of God. Rather, it's a person with a super poor understanding of Him.
     
    amadeus likes this.
  9. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    You're asking a question about the nature of God and how the Father/Son/Spirit relate.

    You'll find a lot of answers to this, but vast majority of them (including my own) state that the Father and Son are two different persons. The Son is doing the Father's will. Yes, they are one God, but different persons.

    The most common camp that believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are one person doing three different roles (like I'm a daughter, wife, and mother) is known as "modalism" and usually regarded as very incorrect by other theological camps.
     
  10. DNB

    DNB Well-Known Member

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    If it makes no sense, sho, than chances are that it has been interpreted incorrectly. If you can't comprehend it, than you cannot be convicted of it. God did not intend that his saints become confounded and unintelligible, when they both read and profess His Word. If it has not been didactically and explicitly taught in Scripture, including all the necessary terminology, logistics and justification, then it is not a divine revelation, but a heretical device. And in this case, the latter option is evidently clear by the amount of confusion that it has elicited amongst every single one of its proponents. Even, and especially, the most studied and scholarly of them.

    There is only one divine being in the entire universe, sho, and that is God the Father. He created (sent) His son to earth by miraculously conceiving him in the womb of Mary. Believing in Jesus, the child of Mary, as Christ and Lord, allows him to ask the Father for anything on our behalf. Namely, having the Father send the gift of the Holy Spirit to empower the elect, in order to bring others to the one and only faith - God the Father, and Jesus His first-born of creation and the first-born from dead, King of Kings and Lord of Lords!
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
  11. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Hello and welcome @sho
    You sure picked a dandy to start out here, lol.

    John 1:1-3
    "1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."

    Since the "Word" here is speaking of Jesus Christ, and God the Father "spoke" everything into being, it seems to me that Christ was always a part of the essence of God the Father's being. When "The Word" (Christ) became flesh to live a sinless life on earth as a human, being born of a virgin He was named Immanuel which means "God with us".

    Matthew 1:23
    “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

    So far as I'm concerned, God manifested in the flesh to die for us because there is no perfect human being who who could have served as The Perfect and Final sacrifice. Jesus is God's Word (without which, nothing would exist)... and does only what the Father tells Him to do. The Holy Spirit as best I can describe is the power and also the essence of God The Father, which includes Christ.
    I'm sure someone else on here can describe it better than I and this is what I get from reading the verses.
    God Bless
     
  12. amigo de christo

    amigo de christo Well-Known Member

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    Read timothy three sixteen . YOUR right on sister . Great is the mystery of Godliness , GOD was manifest in the flesh ,,,
    YES INDEED SISTER . NOW sing to the glorious KING .
     
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  13. Truman

    Truman Well-Known Member

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    A few visions God gave me left me with the thought that God is awesome beyond words. His reality is so much more powerful, bigger, and superior to ours that our words can't describe it.
    God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and yet, "Hear, oh Israel, the Lord our God is one." Three but one. This is the best I can give: Space is one. It has width, depth, and height. Like God. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Like He's a 3-dimensional God.
    Jesus used parables to describe spiritual realities that were beyond the scope of regular words. Hope this helped. Ron.
     
  14. DNB

    DNB Well-Known Member

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    You see @sho, the nonsense never ends with this doctrine. Neither @Nancy nor @Ron Coates , have been able to logically and sublimely, represent their interpretation of the godhead. They are trying to glorify the incomprehensible and implausible. It is one thing, as humans, to not be able to grasp the magnitude of God's attributes, but a contradiction is a blatant contradiction and an absurdity is just an absurdity, that invariably beguiles everyone who espouses it, or adheres to it, and they self admittedly have confessed that. It is only the extent and magnitude of God's love, compassion, wisdom and grandeur that we cannot grasp. But, each of these attributes are comprehensible to us, and we are even able to emulate these qualities, just not to the same degree as the almighty God. Three all powerful persons in one godhead, and two diametrically opposed natures in one person, are just patent idiocracies!

    We are created in His image, and thus, we have an affinity with Him. We have read the Psalms and Job, and all the doxologies of the leading figures in the Bible. Thus, we do know God, not like the others have claimed. He is not divisible nor confused, and yet, they have done both to Him. He is transcendent, non-corporeal, immutable and incorruptible, but they have defied each of these characteristics with their Theologies and Christologies. He did not come down to earth in order to obey, love and propitiate Himself. This is insane nonsense, that utterly defames God's wisdom and Word.

    Like @amadeus has said, some tenets of the Faith are not pertinent to salvation. But, without a doubt, certain doctrines are critical, for what you believe can bring either glory or disgrace to God. The practices of the Israelites in the OT, brought ignobility to God, and they paid for it dearly. Be careful what you believe, make sure that it glorifies God, not just to you, but to all that hear it, Muslims, Jews and Buddhists alike, in order to win them over.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
  15. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Aren't you are very quick to put words in someone's mouth because they do not say precisely the same thing that you say? Are you already beyond seeing through a glass darkly like the Apostle Paul and do you then now always see "face to face"?
     
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  16. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    that is being evasive I just asked if believing in a false god or christ can save one from sin. its really a simple question Scripture answers on many occasions.
     
  17. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    .

    Christ hasn't always been human. He was first someone called the "the
    Word" (John 1:1)

    The Greek word translated "word" in that verse is logos (log'-os) which
    refers to spoken words as opposed to quoted words and/or words in print.

    For example: were someone to take a Bible down into a deep dark cave and
    quote Gen 1:3 loudly and forcefully, nothing would happen. The cave would
    continue in deep darkness just as before.

    But now if God were down there, and He said "Let there be light" the place
    would immediately brighten up because there's creative energy in His voice,
    whereas the only energy in my voice is noise.

    According to John 1:14, God's spoken words took on the nature of human
    life. How it's possible for God's spoken words to be anything else but His
    spoken words, I haven't a clue; but if God's spoken words can become
    human, then there are no doubt many other things they can become.

    Now, although God's spoken words are classified as God, they are not His
    equal; just as my spoken words are me, but they are not my equal. I am in
    charge of my spoken words just as God is in charge of His spoken words;
    and consequently in charge of Christ.

    I haven't a clue how it is that God's spoken words constitute a divine being;
    nevertheless, John 1:1-3 says the Word is a divine being just as God is a
    divine being. But we are not talking about two divine beings here; only one;
    and that's because (to my knowledge) God has only one voice with which to
    speak His words.
    _
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
    Nancy likes this.
  18. Webers_Home

    Webers_Home Well-Known Member

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    The Watch Tower Society claims that the Logos is the arch angel Michael. Well;
    I seriously doubt that an angel comes flying out of God's mouth when He speaks.

    And oh, another thing. According to the Society, Christ was originally the arch
    angel Michael. Well; seeing as how the Society alleges that it's impossible for
    someone to exist as a spirit being and a human being simultaneously, then
    Michael had to cease existing as an angel in order to come to the Earth in
    flesh. Is so, then all the while that Michael was dead, God was speechless.
    Whose voice then was heard on the mount of transfiguration and when Jesus
    was baptized? (Matt 3:17 and Matt 17:5)
    _
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
  19. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Was I really evasive? What was Jesus when He remained silent rather than defending himself with the Word as we well know that He was able to do?

    "He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth." Isaiah 53:7

    "Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee?
    And he answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly." Matt 27:13-14

    Do you @Christophany believe that you know the answers to every question anyone on this forum might ask you about God and the things of God? I certainly do not believe that of myself. I am still with Paul seeing as through a glass darkly... but I am striving toward that "face to face" vision... without which...?

    As to your question which is asked with an ulterior motive, I believe.

    I will answer you this time:

    'Can believing in a false god or christ save one from sin'? No!

    But since unless you are never wrong in the things of God you should go slow to define or describe the god or christ in which someone else believes as false simply because they do not believe exactly as you do. How well do you know their hearts?

    "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
    For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Matt 12:36-37

    "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18

    "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
    ... a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;" Ecc 3:1,7
     
  20. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    What on earth does Jesus dying on the cross have to do with personally studying Gods word ?

    Try staying on topic.

    hope this helps !!!
     
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