Healthy Relating....What does it consist of?

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quietthinker

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Hello Fellow Sojourners,

I've been thinking....the Gospel tells us we have been given an unspeakable gift. Wow, thats a pretty tall order to get ones head around. It is so magnificent it will take eternity to unpack. As the eons roll by we will ever find things to wonder about in God's condescension of identifying with us as human and doing what nobody thought was possible......It is our immense privilege to chew on this wonder....to suck the marrow out of every morsel of light given.

Of all the theories and stories that abound of the world's religions/belief systems. Of all the fantasy and incredible lengths of ignorance over the millennia that people have indulged in various cultures and their explanations of purpose/reasons of reality including the practices associated with these views, it is easy to dismiss the story of a God who came to Earth, paid for sins and went back to Heaven as just another theory of the roll of the dice theories that abound.

Those however whose epiphanies switch the light on in their understanding are changed.....something fundamentally shifts in how they see.
At a level where the rubber hits the road one could say that shift translates in the way they learn to relate (behave). We can say this different ways yet meaning the same thing...from dysfunction to function....from sin to holiness....from disconnection to connection.....from rebellion to sanctification. All these speak of how one sees and behaves; the two are inseparable.

Let's see if we can qualify function from dysfunction in the nitty gritty of living. Let's see if we can identify one from the other....if we can find words to articulate these sentiments as we understand them.

Who will be our starting contributor?
 
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justbyfaith

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I'm not saying that I always succeed at being this...but something that stands out to me in the Bible is the word tenderhearted (Ephesians 4:32).
 
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DNB

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God's condescension of identifying with us as human and doing what nobody thought was possible

it is easy to dismiss the story of a God who came to Earth, paid for sins and went back to Heaven
And you wonder why you are so perplexed. How can God condescend to His own creation? How can the transcendent God become non-transcendent?
How can the omnipresent God be circumscribed in space and time?
You are not talking mysteries here, but utter nonsense! You are somehow trying to glorify God and Christianity with your 'erudite' sophistry, and chaotic confusion, making God's Word out to be some incomprehensible gibberish, which is apprehended only by the credulous and misguided.

Let me see you go from dysfunction to applicable with your initial predicate - God's condescension and humility, and abuse, before His creation?
 

justbyfaith

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How can God condescend to His own creation? How can the transcendent God become non-transcendent?
How can the omnipresent God be circumscribed in space and time?

Jer 32:17, Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:

Jer 32:27, Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?

Luk 1:37, For with God nothing shall be impossible.

Jesus is the great I AM...John 8:24.
 

quietthinker

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And you wonder why you are so perplexed. How can God condescend to His own creation? How can the transcendent God become non-transcendent?
How can the omnipresent God be circumscribed in space and time?
You are not talking mysteries here, but utter nonsense! You are somehow trying to glorify God and Christianity with your 'erudite' sophistry, and chaotic confusion, making God's Word out to be some incomprehensible gibberish, which is apprehended only by the credulous and misguided.

Let me see you go from dysfunction to applicable with your initial predicate - God's condescension and humility, and abuse, before His creation?
I do not agree that this is utter nonsense. Yes, 'how can the omnipresent God be circumscribed in space and time?' a mystery indeed.....and then to submit to death!.....no doubt will be the study of the redeemed for the ceaseless ages of eternity and as Paul so aptly said about our present time here, it is 'as seen through a glass darkly'
 

mjrhealth

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Every one just like the devil wants God to die.... If God died we wouldnt exist, if that what was is the light was snuffed out all that would be left is darkness, and how could God forsake Himself.
 

mjrhealth

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What argument we do have fellowship with God and Jesus if we desire it, but who wants it ??? And yes Christ was always with God, since the beginning, since Christ is Gods word manifested in the flesh and Gods word was with God always.

Why do you need God to die, that was Given to Christ to do.

Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
 

quietthinker

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What argument we do have fellowship with God and Jesus if we desire it, but who wants it ??? And yes Christ was always with God, since the beginning, since Christ is Gods word manifested in the flesh and Gods word was with God always.

Why do you need God to die, that was Given to Christ to do.

Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
What argument we do have fellowship with God and Jesus if we desire it, but who wants it ??? And yes Christ was always with God, since the beginning, since Christ is Gods word manifested in the flesh and Gods word was with God always.

Why do you need God to die, that was Given to Christ to do.

Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
If you do not understand this mjrh, the 'mystery hidden for ages yet revealed to his saints' eludes you. Colossians 1:25-26
 

mjrhealth

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If you do not understand this mjrh, the 'mystery hidden for ages yet revealed to his saints' eludes you. Colossians 1:25-26
Understand what, that God spoke His word, Mary received His word and accepted it, the word bore life in Her as that what His word does, and from His word came Jesus Christ, His first son, who became sin, thjan who than Gave His life as a ransom, so that all that believe in Him will be saved, and God is pleased with Him,

Mat_17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Its only a mystery to those who are not listening.

Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
 

DNB

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Jer 32:17, Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:

Jer 32:27, Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?

Luk 1:37, For with God nothing shall be impossible.

Jesus is the great I AM...John 8:24.
C'mon JBF, you know that that kind of logic does not apply here!
God cannot lie, sin or be tempted by sin, He also cannot make a boulder too heavy for Himself to lift. Don't take verses out of context, you waste everyone's time, and lead people astray.
The transcendent God cannot become non-transcendent, or the universe will collapse. He is omnipresent, and thus, is neither here nor there, but always everywhere. And thus, is not capable to have his specific side pierced with a spear, while hanging on a specific cross.
This is the fundamental understanding of God's ontology.
You are denying intrinsic truths about God, with your irresponsible 'God can do anything' exegesis and mentality.
 
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DNB

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I do not agree that this is utter nonsense. Yes, 'how can the omnipresent God be circumscribed in space and time?' a mystery indeed.....and then to submit to death!.....no doubt will be the study of the redeemed for the ceaseless ages of eternity and as Paul so aptly said about our present time here, it is 'as seen through a glass darkly'
The art of exegesis is knowing what type of literary convention is being used within a pericope, or context of verses. It requires wisdom to understand when the author or character within particular accounts, is speaking historically, literally, figuratively or metaphorically, etc.. Thus consequently, it requires the utmost sobriety and insight to determine when a proposed doctrine, tenet or principle of the faith, is utter nonsense or profound, and whether or not it brings glory to God and His wisdom, or utter infamy and disgrace.

Frivolously appealing to mystery, just because you can't understand what you just concluded, is reckless, irresponsible and incompetent, and verging on deceit.
 
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quietthinker

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The art of exegesis is knowing what type of literary convention is being used within a pericope, or context of verses. It requires wisdom to understand when the author or character within particular accounts, is speaking historically, literally, figuratively or metaphorically, etc.. Thus consequently, it requires the utmost sobriety and insight to determine when a proposed doctrine, tenet or principle of the faith is utter nonsense or profound, and whether or not it brings glory to God and His wisdom, or utter infamy and disgrace.

Frivolously appealing to mystery, just because you can't understand what you just concluded, is reckless, irresponsible and incompetent, and verging on deceit.
Your assumption that what I have stated as being frivolous is poor judgement one your part. Your lack of understanding 'mystery' in the biblical context of the plan of redemption denies your eloquent statement at the outset of your post.
 

justbyfaith

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God cannot lie, sin or be tempted by sin, He also cannot make a boulder too heavy for Himself to lift.

He can make a rock as the Father (a Spirit inhabiting eternity, Isaiah 57:15) that, as the Son He cannot lift (in His humanity He may not be strong enough to lift it).

The transcendent God cannot become non-transcendent, or the universe will collapse.

God is in fact outside of time, dwelling in eternity. And therefore, if He were to descend and become a Man, He would not cease to dwell outside of time, in eternity. Because the nature of one who dwells in eternity is that He always dwells in eternity; for that it the nature of eternity.

So then, Jesus went forward to incarnate as the Son and also stayed behind to dwell in eternity as the Father.

This also explains how Jesus was praying to Himself while also praying to a distinct Person apart from Himself.
 

DNB

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Your assumption that what I have stated as being frivolous is poor judgement one your part. Your lack of understanding 'mystery' in the biblical context of the plan of redemption denies your eloquent statement at the outset of your post.
Well, it appears that the gauntlet has been dropped. And how do you consider that man's transgression against God, can only be rectified by God Himself, propitiating Himself? That God's demand for obedience, can only be fulfilled by God obeying Himself? How man's hope and faith in the resurrection, is inspired by God, the immortal and eternal, raising Himself from the dead?
Please let me see you try and give glory to God through this outlandish and antithetical judicial process?
 
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DNB

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So then, Jesus went forward to incarnate as the Son and also stayed behind to dwell in eternity as the Father.

This also explains how Jesus was praying to Himself while also praying to a distinct Person apart from Himself.
...you know that you just stated that Jesus is the Father in your two comments above (Jesus distinctly prayed to the Father). Are you a modalist or trinitarian (both are heretical btw)?
Ok JBF, if you are content before God with the two points that you stated above, and do not feel that your exegesis and Christology or Theology is absurd in any way, then I feel that it's necessary to call the men in white coats for you...
 

justbyfaith

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Ok JBF, if you are content before God with the two points that you stated above, and do not feel that your exegesis and Christology or Theology is absurd in any way, then I feel that it's necessary to call the men in white coats for you...

That would be persecution for righteousness' sake...

...you know that you just stated that Jesus is the Father in your two comments above (Jesus distinctly prayed to the Father). Are you a modalist or trinitarian (both are heretical btw)?

My theology is a combination of trinitarian and modalist.

I started a thread a while back on the issue (will post a link shortly)...

True Trinity.
 

DNB

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That would be persecution for righteousness' sake...



My theology is a combination of trinitarian and modalist.

I started a thread a while back on the issue (will post a link shortly)...

True Trinity.
Thanks JBF, but don't waste it on me. Mind you, it is the first that I've heard of an syncretism of the two, but either way, I don't have much regard for any theology that deifies Jesus, or any other creature that walked the earth.
 
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justbyfaith

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Thanks JBF, but don't waste it on me. Mind you, it is the first that I've heard of an syncretism of the two, but either way, I don't have much regard for any theology that deifies Jesus, or any other creature that walked the earth.
And you will die in your sins because you reject the Deity of Jesus, John 8:24.

But I know how stubborn JW's can be....so I am not going to try to convince you of the truth. Especially if you are not going to take the time to read what I have written on the subject.