Heaven or Hell?

[Willie T]

I found this interesting...…..
According to some well-known pastors, Jesus’ teachings are primarily about fire and brimstone. For example:

“… he [Jesus] himself speaks twice as often of hell as of heaven.”
— D.A. Carson, Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount and His Confrontation with the World

“He [Jesus] spoke more often about hell than he did about heaven. We cannot get around this fact.”
— Leon Morris, “The Dreadful Harvest,” Christianity Today, May 27, 1991

“Jesus talked more about hell than He did about heaven in order to warn men of its reality.”
— John MacArthur, “The Ultimate Religious Decision”

“Jesus said more about Hell than Heaven.”
— Jerry Falwell, “Heaven and Hell”

“Obviously I do believe in hell. Jesus spoke more about hell than heaven.”
— Rick Warren, interview with John Piper

“Jesus said more about hell than about any other topic. Amazingly, 13 percent of his sayings are about hell and judgment …”
— Mark Driscoll, “6 Questions on Hell”

“Of the 1,850 verses in the New Testament that record Jesus’ words, 13 percent of them deal with the subject of eternal judgment and hell. In fact, Jesus spoke more frequently about hell than He did about heaven.”
— Robert Jeffress, How Can I Know?
******************************************
Those are some very bold and very specific quantitative assessments of Jesus’ message. But are they true?

By my count (with the help of some BibleWorks magic), there are 1,944 verses in the four gospels that contain Jesus’ words.

Surprisingly, only about 60 of those verses–or an unwhopping three percent of them—might be construed as either directly or indirectly referring to hell.

On the other hand, there are more than three times as many verses in the gospels in which Jesus references heaven, eternal life, or his coming kingdom: 192 verses in all, or almost 10%.

So Jesus did not, in fact, speak more about hell than heaven. But many people who should know better still seem hell-bent on insisting that He did.

How do they arrive at a conclusion so contrary to the facts? By reading hell into any and every possible passage in the Bible.

D.A. Carson, for example, who is one of the first purveyors of the “Jesus talked more about hell than heaven” myth, finds hell in the story of the wise and foolish builders (Matthew 7:24-27). In the words “The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell — and great was its fall!” Carson somehow construes a clear depiction of eternal damnation:

The sermon ends with what has been implicit throughout it—the demand for radical submission to the exclusive lordship of Jesus, who fulfills the Law and the Prophets and warns the disobedient that the alternative to total obedience, true righteousness, and life in the kingdom is rebellion, self-centeredness, and eternal damnation.
— D.A. Carson, Matthew, The Expositor’s Bible Commentary

Given that interpretation, it’s no wonder that Carson thinks Jesus spoke of hell twice as much as heaven!

Yes, throughout the gospels Jesus did speak about judgement, and yes, he also spoke a handful of times about places such as Gehenna and Hades, words often translated as “hell.” But those instances do not stand as justification for the promulgation of the myth that Jesus spoke more about hell than he did about heaven. Continuing the promote that falsehood severely undermines Christ’s true message—which is the love of God and neighbor that Jesus himself called The Greatest Commandment.

Turning Jesus’ gospel of love into a “gospel” of fear, damnation and punishment is either alarmingly ignorant or intentionally manipulative. Either way, it’s very bad news indeed, and needs to stop.

1. By request, here is a list of verses I used for my numbers: jesus-heaven-hell.pdf

Dan Wilkerson

 

[Enoch111]

So Jesus did not, in fact, speak more about hell than heaven.

If you go strictly by "Heaven" itself -- not "the kingdom of Heaven" (which is not identical) or "my Father in Heaven" -- then Jesus did speak more about Hell (eternal Hell) than Heaven.

Mt 4:17 is NOT about Heaven.
Mt 5:3 is about "the Kingdom of Heaven" NOT Heaven.
Mt 6:1 is about "the Father who is in Heaven" NOT Heaven.

We could go right through these so-called verses about Heaven and discover that rarely did Jesus speak about HEAVEN ITSELF.

 

[Helen]

So Jesus did not, in fact, speak more about hell than heaven. But many people who should know better still seem hell-bent on insisting that He did.
How do they arrive at a conclusion so contrary to the facts? By reading hell into any and every possible passage in the Bible.

EXCELLENT POST!!!

I have heard that glib quote ..." Jesus spoke more about Hell than Heaven.." all of my 54 Christian years...

Which nullifies when we sometimes say.." Just because you say something over and over doesn't make it truth." And that is a true saying....BUT as you have shown clearly ...saying something over and over and over again , does brainwash the lazy who never check anything out for themselves...but they just obediently swallow anything that is spoon fed to them over the pulpit!!

Those that foolishly believe that they are doing God some kind of favour by driving people through the fear of Hell fire preaching and tagging Jesus' name to it... do God a GREAT dis-service...they discredit His Name and His Character ... they create a god in their own image...wave it before the people and say " Lo, Behold your God".

That being said...It wont change the hearts and minds of those who are already brainwashed, and very comfortable in what they have chosen to believe about God and His message.

 

[Helen]

We could go right through these so-called verses about Heaven and discover that rarely did Jesus speak about HEAVEN ITSELF.

And for heaven sake....WHY?

And what glory is that to the Lord??? It just proves the quote above...
<How do they arrive at a conclusion so contrary to the facts? By reading hell into any and every possible passage in the Bible. >

And that will make you feel better....why?
Why do you so desire to believe that Hell is of far more important to God than heaven?

 

[Triumph1300]

and discover that rarely did Jesus speak about HEAVEN ITSELF.

I think you'r mistaken.

Many times when Jesus mentioned the Father, He said "My Father who is in heaven....."

 

[bbyrd009]

And that will make you feel better....why?

Hegelian dialectics demands a winner and a loser

 

[Helen]

Yep

 

[Enoch111]

I think you'r mistaken.

Many times when Jesus mentioned the Father, He said "My Father who is in heaven....."

I already pointed this out. So the emphasis was on "my Father" not on Heaven itself. The same applies to "the Kingdom of Heaven". Speaking about Heaven would have meant focusing on Heaven itself.

 

[Enoch111]

Why do you so desire to believe that Hell is of far more important to God than heaven?

I did not suggest that Hell is more important to God than Heaven. We are simply discussing what was described by Christ in greater detail, and certainly He gave us more detail about Hades and Hell than about Heaven. Actually the apostle John gives us the greatest detail about Heaven in Revelation.

 

[Episkopos]

May I point out that heaven and hell are not related as comparisons.

It is "heaven and earth" not heaven and hell. This is the proper distinctive. "On earth as it is in heaven"...

As for judgments...hell, as in the lake of fire...is only one place of eternal judgment.

There is much more to this.

I have a comparison for you...

Mat. 10:15 Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.

If everything is either good or bad...how is the above statement made possible? How can things be worse for people than for Sodom?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Good question epi.
The first t ime that verse really hit me, I had to question a lot of the things I had heard. It appears that Jesus had harsher words for religious hypocrites than for sodomites. But it doesn't cause us any fear or concern. We will still go about passing judgement on others and taking none of His words into our own hearts.

Israel used to claim a special status of: we be the seed of Abrabam. We follow their mistake and say: we be the seed of the Spirit. We give no thought to the very hard verses and if one tries to bring them up, that person is severely castigated, which is echoes of: tell us pleasant th iings.

 

[Episkopos]

Good question epi.
The first t ime that verse really hit me, I had to question a lot of the things I had heard. It appears that Jesus had harsher words for religious hypocrites than for sodomites. But it doesn't cause us any fear or concern. We will still go about passing judgement on others and taking none of His words into our own hearts.

Israel used to claim a special status of: we be the seed of Abrabam. We follow their mistake and say: we be the seed of the Spirit. We give no thought to the very hard verses and if one tries to bring them up, that person is severely castigated, which is echoes of: tell us pleasant th iings.

The towns where Jesus preached and showed His signs and wonders....and His truth...Jesus says will fare worse than anyone else, even the worse of carnal sinners. Nineveh will rise up in judgment against these place.

Mat. 12:41 The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

It is about scale....scale of unrighteousness...and scale of righteousness.

 

[Triumph1300]

I already pointed this out. So the emphasis was on "my Father" not on Heaven itself. The same applies to "the Kingdom of Heaven". Speaking about Heaven would have meant focusing on Heaven itself.

OK, so you just want to argue.

 

[Helen]

God is not In Heaven.

( How do you like them apples.? )

Heaven ........is In God.

 

[Triumph1300]

The Lord's Prayer


Our Father, which art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy will be done in earth,
As it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive them that trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
The power, and the glory,
For ever and ever.
Amen.

 

[Helen]

Yes I know @Triumph1300 ...but I have never understood heaven..and lets face it...even the " Lord's prayer " is ant talk..from an awesome Spirit to our feeble brains...He is just trying to "Paint Pictures" for us to get a bit of a clue....

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The towns where Jesus preached and showed His signs and wonders....and His truth...Jesus says will fare worse than anyone else, even the worse of carnal sinners. Nineveh will rise up in judgment against these place.

Mat. 12:41 The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

It is about scale....scale of unrighteousness...and scale of righteousness.

Not sure I understand that...the last sentence i mean. I do see that there is an echo of those verses with us though, and we would be the ones who re ceive the Spirit likened to the town's He preached to. More truthfulness and honesty is expected of us and instead we seem to cover or sweep under the rug, our hypocrisies, while condemning others for more visible sins. But our hidden sins will receive the greater condemnation. honestly, I would rAther be judged by outward sin done in the body than for sin i keep hidden from men which I then become self deceived about. My family thinks I'm crazy that I confess every little thing from my heart. The slightest thingthings to them are the greAter things to me. They thing I'm very upside down but I don't think I am...I'm more concerned about what men don't see about me than what they do.

 

[Episkopos]

Not sure I understand that...the last sentence i mean. I do see that there is an echo of those verses with us though, and we would be the ones who re ceive the Spirit likened to the town's He preached to. More truthfulness and honesty is expected of us and instead we seem to cover or sweep under the rug, our hypocrisies, while condemning others for more visible sins. But our hidden sins will receive the greater condemnation. honestly, I would rAther be judged by outward sin done in the body than for sin i keep hidden from men which I then become self deceived about. My family thinks I'm crazy that I confess every little thing from my heart. The slightest thingthings to them are the greAter things to me. They thing I'm very upside down but I don't think I am...I'm more concerned about what men don't see about me than what they do.

What I meant was that we tend to see things in black and white but in the kingdom there is ...good..better.. perfect...on the positive side....and bad to worse on the negative side.

To judge righteously then we need to see that righteousness is a moving target.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ah...I think I can see the moving target...it's just a part of seeing more and more clearly

 

[Frank Lee]

Heaven or hell? Hmmm. I'll choose heaven!

Harold Hill who wrote How to live like a kings kid, had a neophyte Jehovah's witness come to his door with their literature. After the man nade his spiel Harold then asked how many were going to heaven.

"144000" the answer.

Where will you spend eternity? Harold asked

"probably hell" he answered

Well Harold asked, why do you want to take me with you?

To end this Harold went to the kingdom hall with the young man then asked him to come to his church where he heard the truth and was saved.

I have a theory that denominational preachers expanded the reach of the "hellish" scriptures because of the absence of the anointing of the Holy Spirit. Rarely do you hear any denominational sermon, especially Baptist, that isn't filled with fire and brimstone. It's either that or legalisms and dead works. Hell is a true message of the new testament, but not the only message.

Without the anointing of the Holy Spirit men take undue license with the scriptures.

Occasionally I still tune into Baptist or Methodist services on Sunday TV. Rarely do I hear anything that is worth hearing.

Regarding hell the Lord gave me a dream a few decades ago that I will never forget. I may have shared it before somewhere but will again.