I believe lot of people make the mistake of reading John chapters 14-17 then taking the words of Jesus and applying those words to themselves as they lift them from the writer's context. They apply them to you, I, and everyone when in fact He was addressing a very specific group. I will totally admit that the whole Heaven promise or should I say invite is difficult to grasp and I am still studying and trying to further my knowledge on the subject, but as I currently understand it, it seems that according to scripture, the Heavenly inheritance was a promise limited by Jesus to an elect few and it seems the main hope of the human race given in scripture was to be a resurrection as opposed to a heavenly inheritance. I know we have been taught in religion that after death, heaven awaits, but as one studies the scriptures it seems like it can be correctly concluded that the invitation to heaven was a limited one.
Heaven, What Do You Believe About It......
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shnarkle
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Agreed. Even the Paradise Jesus referred to on the cross is an earthly one that is described in glowing detail throughout the Old Testament. This is especially true if one admits that Jesus actually addressed the thief's claim to the kingdom of messiah which again is described as an earthly kingdom.
You have a number of misunderstandings here. So according to Scripture (taking all relevant Scriptures into account):
1. There is an eternal heavenly inheritance reserved for only the children of God (not the human race).
2. Since (1) the citizenship of Christians is in Heaven, (2) their inheritance is also in Heaven, and (3) the mansions prepared by Christ are also in Heaven, it is only LOGICAL that Christians should have an eternal heavenly home. This is the New Jerusalem, which is already occupied by all the OT saints as well as all the NT saints who have passed on since the resurrection of Christ.
3. The INVITATION to Heaven is to all, since the offer of salvation and eternal life is to all. But all will not obey the Gospel therefore all will not be saved, therefore only the children of God will be in Heaven.
4. The cults teach that no one will be in Heaven other than the 144,000 (in the case of the JWs) but this is TOTALLY FALSE.
Please provide book, chapter, and verse in context that says all faithful believers are party to a Heavenly Inheritance.
I ALMOST agree. If you would have added the word 'certain' in between what I underlined you'd be spot on!
Where do you get the idea that "old testament saints" were in the New Jerusalem?
Again, please provide book, chapter, and verse in context that says as much.
And? They also teach that God created the universe; should that be rejected because they believe it? Even a broke clock is right twice a day.
If we read what the Bible says that the hope of the early "Old Testament Saints" (is there even a such thing) was before the time of Jesus, we will see things like what Job said about death:
Job 14:12, So, when man goes to sleep he won't rise again, until [the stars] are sewn together they never awaken from sleep.
Psalm 49:19, 20 says of a man who dies, From generation to generation he'll go down to his fathers, and through the ages he'll never see light. For a man of honor does not realize, that he resembles the unthinking cattle, and that he very much like them.
Psalm 146: 3, 4 says, Do not rely upon rulers the sons of men who have no salvation. For, His breath goes out; he's gone from his land; and in that day his thoughts pass away.
This is what was taught and believed in scripture regarding death. There was a promised deliverance, however. The Bible Hope that faithful men and women of old (such as King David) had for life after death was that in some future time, God would resurrect them and bring them back to life. And although the faithful man Job was the first to mention his hope of a resurrection, the first person to prophecy about it was a woman, Hannah, the mother of the Prophet Samuel in 1 Samuel 2:7, 8. And when did they believe that "the poor" would be raised "from the dirt?" Well, Job prayed (at Job 14:13-15 LXX):
O that in the grave You had guarded and hid me til Your anger had passed away. Please order a time to be set for me when You'll mention my name once again. Can a man live again after he dies, once the days of his life have past? As for me, I will wait til I live again, when You will call me and I'll listen.
So, the clear hope of the earliest servants of God was that He would remember them at some future time and resurrect them back to life, when they may be rewarded for their faithfulness
Job 14:12, So, when man goes to sleep he won't rise again, until [the stars] are sewn together they never awaken from sleep.
Psalm 49:19, 20 says of a man who dies, From generation to generation he'll go down to his fathers, and through the ages he'll never see light. For a man of honor does not realize, that he resembles the unthinking cattle, and that he very much like them.
Psalm 146: 3, 4 says, Do not rely upon rulers the sons of men who have no salvation. For, His breath goes out; he's gone from his land; and in that day his thoughts pass away.
This is what was taught and believed in scripture regarding death. There was a promised deliverance, however. The Bible Hope that faithful men and women of old (such as King David) had for life after death was that in some future time, God would resurrect them and bring them back to life. And although the faithful man Job was the first to mention his hope of a resurrection, the first person to prophecy about it was a woman, Hannah, the mother of the Prophet Samuel in 1 Samuel 2:7, 8. And when did they believe that "the poor" would be raised "from the dirt?" Well, Job prayed (at Job 14:13-15 LXX):
O that in the grave You had guarded and hid me til Your anger had passed away. Please order a time to be set for me when You'll mention my name once again. Can a man live again after he dies, once the days of his life have past? As for me, I will wait til I live again, when You will call me and I'll listen.
So, the clear hope of the earliest servants of God was that He would remember them at some future time and resurrect them back to life, when they may be rewarded for their faithfulness
So, the clear hope of the earliest servants of God was that He would remember them at some future time and resurrect them back to life, when they may be rewarded for their faithfulness.
You guys can figure out what's what, I've already been to my home and from what I can remember, it's beautiful!
He was there! Looking into my eyes...I can feel His love just filling me again! He loves us so much!
He was there! Looking into my eyes...I can feel His love just filling me again! He loves us so much!
Except in John 17:
20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
Jesus is praying for those who will believe through the disciples message. that they will be with Jesus sharing in his glory.
The passage is address to the disciples, but can also be understood to apply to All believers from the above comment.
24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
Lambano
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We're at my mother-in-law's funeral. After viewing the corpus delecti, my grandson, with a seven-year-old's innocence asks, "Will people have clothes in Heaven?". Thinking of Rev. 6:11, I said, "Yes, we will be given white robes to wear". But my sister-in-law, a wise and faithful woman who knows her Bible said, "It will be like the Garden of Eden again, and we will be naked. And God will be there". That stopped me in my tracks, and not just because of the mental image of my old sister-in-law naked. At every Christian funeral I've ever gone to (and as my church's sound man, I had to go to all of them, and and we'd had a streak of them lately), the congregation talks about our late brother or sister "going to Heaven", but the scriptures read at every funeral talk instead about Resurrection. "I AM the Resurrection and the Life. Though a man die, yet shall he live." Something doesn't jibe.
So, I ran across N.T. Wright's Surprised By Hope in the Barnes and Nobel. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not; God knows. Wright makes the Biblical case that the ultimate Christian hope is being resurrected into a renewed Creation, a Creation without death and without sin. And God will be there with His people.
I will note that Wright does allow for a conscious and/or sleeping interim state between death and resurrection. But I still hope we wear clothes in The World to Come.
So, I ran across N.T. Wright's Surprised By Hope in the Barnes and Nobel. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not; God knows. Wright makes the Biblical case that the ultimate Christian hope is being resurrected into a renewed Creation, a Creation without death and without sin. And God will be there with His people.
I will note that Wright does allow for a conscious and/or sleeping interim state between death and resurrection. But I still hope we wear clothes in The World to Come.
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bbyrd009
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the kingdom of heaven is within you
there is only One Immortal
no one has ever gone up to heaven, but He Who came down from it
there is only One Immortal
no one has ever gone up to heaven, but He Who came down from it
Our flesh is the veil that prevents us from seeing the heavenly realm. Otherwise, we'd see we are already alive in that realm.
It does seem to me that many people think of heaven as the "final destination", but I see heaven as a temporary destination, if you will.
We now have spiritual life, and could perceive the spiritual realm, except that our sensory perceptions are for the most part tied to this realm, by our terrestrial life. Once our terrestrial life ends, I think we'll perceive the spiritual realm, but not necessarily the terrestrial realm. Once we have our new bodies, with our new spirit, I think we will perceive both.
Much love!
bbyrd009
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well imo just take that old body and old spirit into a cave with a gallon of water for about three days lol
GRACE ambassador
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OP: "Heaven, what I believe about it"? Well, for starters:
Precious friends, ONE Two-Fold Creation (Genesis 1:1), and,
1) Earthly hope FOR ISRAEL!
(Genesis 17:7-8; Genesis 28:13-14; Genesis 48:4; Psalms 105:7-11; Amos 9:14-15;
Ezekiel 28:25-26; Ezekiel 36:28; Ezekiel 37:21-27; Jeremiah 23-8;
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
2) Heavenly Hope For The Body Of CHRIST!
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:49; 2 Corinthians 12:2, 5:1-2;
Ephesians 1:3, 20, 2:6; Philippians 3:20; 2 Timothy 4:18)
(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 =
Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans – Philemon}, For ALL “to SEE,” today?)
Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's Simple Will!
Precious friends, ONE Two-Fold Creation (Genesis 1:1), and,
TWO Different things In Scripture:
(Genesis 17:7-8; Genesis 28:13-14; Genesis 48:4; Psalms 105:7-11; Amos 9:14-15;
Ezekiel 28:25-26; Ezekiel 36:28; Ezekiel 37:21-27; Jeremiah 23-8;
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
2) Heavenly Hope For The Body Of CHRIST!
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:49; 2 Corinthians 12:2, 5:1-2;
Ephesians 1:3, 20, 2:6; Philippians 3:20; 2 Timothy 4:18)
(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 =
Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans – Philemon}, For ALL “to SEE,” today?)
Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's Simple Will!
bbyrd009
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ha well in three days you should be hallucinating anyway…
most westerners last about ten fifteen minutes
Laying on my belly, dead, my head was lifted up by an invisible force. I was in a dark, underground cavern. About 50 feet in front of me stood a bright light, about 8 feet tall. It said, "Choose life or choose death." I cried, "I wanna live!" Life coursed through my body.
The Bible Hope that faithful men and women of old (such as King David) had for life after death was that in some future time, God would resurrect them and bring them back to life.
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