Hebrews 1:1-2

[twinc]

Exactly who were directly spoken to and when should be carefully noted - these now speak to us indirectly but now we are directly spoken to by the Church[Lk 10:16/Jn 13:20] - twinc

 

[DPMartin]

Exactly who were directly spoken to and when should be carefully noted - these now speak to us indirectly but now we are directly spoken to by the Church[Lk 10:16/Jn 13:20] - twinc

I can be directly spoken to by any life that can communicate if I be in it's presence. therefore in the case of God's Word His Presence is required. the Lord God of Israel's Word was with the prophets in their day, or they wouldn't of heard it. and to be in the Presence of God's Word is to be in the Presence of God. the prophets were entrusted by the Lord God to convey what He said to those who were not in His Presence.

so any "church" is in its own presence, and anyone in the same presence can be directly spoken to by the "church", but if the Presence of God isn't with the "church" like it wasn't with Israel in the times of the prophets except for the prophets then the church's communication means nothing to those who seek God, or are to be feed the Truth of God.

anyone can call themselves anything, but the Almighty chooses who to be with, which is true through out the whole Bible.

 

[twinc]

I can be directly spoken to by any life that can communicate if I be in it's presence. therefore in the case of God's Word His Presence is required. the Lord God of Israel's Word was with the prophets in their day, or they wouldn't of heard it. and to be in the Presence of God's Word is to be in the Presence of God. the prophets were entrusted by the Lord God to convey what He said to those who were not in His Presence.

so any "church" is in its own presence, and anyone in the same presence can be directly spoken to by the "church", but if the Presence of God isn't with the "church" like it wasn't with Israel in the times of the prophets except for the prophets then the church's communication means nothing to those who seek God, or are to be feed the Truth of God.

anyone can call themselves anything, but the Almighty chooses who to be with, which is true through out the whole Bible.

of course all this is according to you - but guess what God says at Lk 10:16/Jn 13:20/Matt 18:20 and guess who He said it to at Matt 16:19/18:18 - twinc

 

[ScottA]

Exactly who were directly spoken to and when should be carefully noted - these now speak to us indirectly but now we are directly spoken to by the Church[Lk 10:16/Jn 13:20] - twinc

Hmmm... No Sir, it is not the Church who speaks, but the Church that is spoken to. Him who speaks, is the Holy Spirit.

 

[DPMartin]

of course all this is according to you - but guess what God says at Lk 10:16/Jn 13:20/Matt 18:20 and guess who He said it to at Matt 16:19/18:18 - twinc

as dooly noted by ScottA, the Word has to be of God, not the church, and it is important to understand the distinction between those who call themselves the "church" and the Presence of God (Holy Spirit, remember Jesus says God is a Spirit). there are many who have positions of authority in the "church" and have not the Holy Spirit. therefore the case stands that the ordination isn't the "church" the ordination is of the Father through the Son in the Holy Spirit, again God's Presence in the indwelling of those who are born again.

 

[twinc]

Hmmm... No Sir, it is not the Church who speaks, but the Church that is spoken to. Him who speaks, is the Holy Spirit.

exactly as at Lk 10:16/Jn 13:20/Matt 18:20 and guess who He said it to as at Matt 16:19/18:18 - there is no mention of you here but there is here at Jn 14:17 - you and I are the world mentioned here whereas you as mentioned are the disciples .- twinc

 

[ScottA]

exactly as at Lk 10:16/Jn 13:20/Matt 18:20 and guess who He said it to as at Matt 16:19/18:18 - there is no mention of you here but there is here at Jn 14:17 - you and I are the world mentioned here whereas you as mentioned are the disciples .- twinc

"You" or "who" is not the object of Jesus' statement, but rather the "key" or "keys" are the object, and the subject is "how" he builds his Church, which he said is by the spirit of the "Father."

 

[twinc]

"You" or "who" is not the object of Jesus' statement, but rather the "key" or "keys" are the object, and the subject is "how" he builds his Church, which he said is by the spirit of the "Father."

this is how according to you or as usual is special inspiration and guidance being claimed but not granted to me - btw have you and others noticed yet the bias or shall we allow it to go on and on - not a single like granted to me - twinc

 

[mjrhealth]

this is how according to you or as usual is special inspiration and guidance being claimed but not granted to me

It isnt so hard.

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Gal_1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

and that is how He is building His church and why so few belong to it.

Eph_1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

It doesnt come from mens church nor his religions, only God.

 

[ScottA]

this is how according to you or as usual is special inspiration and guidance being claimed but not granted to me - btw have you and others noticed yet the bias or shall we allow it to go on and on - not a single like granted to me - twinc

If I explain the truth of the passage, saying it is not about Peter but about God the Father, then it is not about me either, nor about you - but only the Father and his being the source of our spiritual blessing in building his Church. Nowhere did I refer to me, but you refer to me and to you, because you first referred to Peter rather than to the Father - this will not be a defensible position when you come before him. The only position is to attribute all to the Father, that you may be numbered among those who will receive his promise. But if you refrain when considering Him, and attribute anything to any other (meaning Peter), will He not also refrain when considering you? Of course He will, for this He has promised. Take heed then, and reconsider the passage according to the Father, rather than Peter...and leave me and you our of it, that we might be included, not by our own doing, but by His.

 

[twinc]

It isnt so hard.

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Gal_1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

and that is how He is building His church and why so few belong to it.

Eph_1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

It doesnt come from mens church nor his religions, only God.

this is the problem - it comes from you but it is claimed as coming from God - this is the unforgiveable sin and blasphemy claiming God and/or the H/S to be foolish and misled and misleading - twinc

 

[mjrhealth]

this is the problem - it comes from you but it is claimed as coming from God - this is the unforgiveable sin and blasphemy claiming God and/or the H/S to be foolish and misled and misleading - twinc

YEs you love speaking of blasphmy, your way to silence teh truth.

Act_2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

God cant help it if men are not listening.

 

[twinc]

YEs you love speaking of blasphmy, your way to silence teh truth.

Act_2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

God cant help it if men are not listening.

YEs you love speaking of blasphmy, your way to silence teh truth.

Act_2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

God cant help it if men are not listening.

it is you that is not listening to God but to yourself - for God says all not just some - twinc

 

[mjrhealth]

it is you that is not listening to God but to yourself - for God says all not just some - twinc

JEsus says teh opposite

Mat_7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Rom_11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
2Ti_4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti_4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

As I said, God cant help it if men wont listen to Him, We serve one master, Jesus or religion, which is it to be???

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all. not saying anyone is right or wrong, but consider this. God have alway spoke to all men directly. in the OP is states, 1. Exactly who were directly spoken to? answer all men through his chosen apostles, prophets, and teachers... the reason why I agree with DP Martian, and ScottA, and Mjrhealth, is because all are really saying the same thing. no preacher, be he or she an apostle, prophet, teacher, church member, or pastor cannot speak without the Holy Ghost/Spirit speaking to through them. is was the same in the old testament, as now as the O.P. states, (Heb 1:1-2). supportive scripture, 1 Peter 1:10 & 11 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow". in the O.T. the Spirit, God, (who is a Spirit), the Lord Jesus without flesh and Bone (Spirit) was "IN" the prophets of Old. I suggest one re-read 1 Peter 10 & 11 again. this same Spirit (who is identified as the SON in Heb 1:1-2) is the Lord Jesus who was poured out on Pentecost. and still in agreement with all, the same Spirit, the Lord Jesus, the (Son Heb 1:1-2) can witness to any man by whom he dwells in. supportive scripture, John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him". so how will the Lord Jesus manifest himself to us? in the Spiritual gifts, and the first one on the list is the ministering gifts, (see 1 Corinthians 12:8).

so agree with DPMartian on this point, "I can be directly spoken to by any life that can communicate if I be in it's presence. therefore in the case of God's Word His Presence is required". amen. just as all have said, this present is God, (who is the Lord Jesus, the Holy Spirit).

 

[twinc]

GINOLJC, to all. not saying anyone is right or wrong, but consider this. God have alway spoke to all men directly. in the OP is states, 1. Exactly who were directly spoken to? answer all men through his chosen apostles, prophets, and teachers... the reason why I agree with DP Martian, and ScottA, and Mjrhealth, is because all are really saying the same thing. no preacher, be he or she an apostle, prophet, teacher, church member, or pastor cannot speak without the Holy Ghost/Spirit speaking to through them. is was the same in the old testament, as now as the O.P. states, (Heb 1:1-2). supportive scripture, 1 Peter 1:10 & 11 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow". in the O.T. the Spirit, God, (who is a Spirit), the Lord Jesus without flesh and Bone (Spirit) was "IN" the prophets of Old. I suggest one re-read 1 Peter 10 & 11 again. this same Spirit (who is identified as the SON in Heb 1:1-2) is the Lord Jesus who was poured out on Pentecost. and still in agreement with all, the same Spirit, the Lord Jesus, the (Son Heb 1:1-2) can witness to any man by whom he dwells in. supportive scripture, John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him". so how will the Lord Jesus manifest himself to us? in the Spiritual gifts, and the first one on the list is the ministering gifts, (see 1 Corinthians 12:8).

so agree with DPMartian on this point, "I can be directly spoken to by any life that can communicate if I be in it's presence. therefore in the case of God's Word His Presence is required". amen. just as all have said, this present is God, (who is the Lord Jesus, the Holy Spirit).

all I see around me is on going and more and more blasphemy against the H/S - so many claiming indwelling/presence/inspiration/guidance over the centuries and even now but the fruits by which I know them are demonic and unforgiveable blasphemy against the H/S viz division, disagreement, dissent, differences, disputes, divergence, contradictions, confusion and chaos adding confusion to confusion - this is assuredly blasphemy and must cease imho - see Matt 15:8 - twinc

 

[ScottA]

all I see around me is on going and more and more blasphemy against the H/S - so many claiming indwelling/presence/inspiration/guidance over the centuries and even now but the fruits by which I know them are demonic and unforgiveable blasphemy against the H/S viz division, disagreement, dissent, differences, disputes, divergence, contradictions, confusion and chaos adding confusion to confusion - this is assuredly blasphemy and must cease imho - see Matt 15:8 - twinc

All disagreement is not the same.

Certainly, evil does not agree with good, and it is the hope of Christ and the apostles that we love one another and be of one mind. But, Christ did make it clear that in spite of this, child would be against parent and brother against brother - this is not blasphemy, but the body working in the way that it was made: the right leg pushes forward and the left back, that we should move forward as a body - this is natural. As for confusion, it was God himself that confuse all language according to his will - this too is intentional, that we should not exceed our authority before the times are fulfilled.

 

[twinc]

exactly so - as you say we should not exceed our authority but we have is not admitted and not likely to be either and so unrepented and so the unforgiveable sin of blasphemy - so you seem to be accepting that division and confusion etc is caused by the claimed God/HS within and indwelling - twinc

 

[ScottA]

exactly so - as you say we should not exceed our authority but we have is not admitted and not likely to be either and so unrepented and so the unforgiveable sin of blasphemy - so you seem to be accepting that division and confusion etc is caused by the claimed God/HS within and indwelling - twinc

God works all things together for good for those who love him... That doesn't mean all of what we do is good - not even. But we don't need to beat ourselves up over what God has made unavoidable to us. The rain falls on the good and on the evil...we all get wet, and are all guilty of the mess you describe - BUT - nothing is unlawful...IF...we are in Christ. It is finished.

 

[twinc]

the point that is not being grasped is that here there just is no if especially by those claiming certain inspiration, indwelling and guidance by the H/S and especially those claiming to be new creation, sinless born again Christians - twinc