"Hell doesn't last forever"..God is merciful

[ScaliaFan]

Really?

then i guess Jesus is a liar? He mentions eternal Hell in several psgs, one of which is Mt 25:31-46. If you don't read any other psg in the Bible all year, you should read that one. It prety much sums things up vis a vis the Christian life and after life

people who say Hell doesn't last forever are either in the dark or and/or.. trying to justify their sins..

I can u/stand both places.. been there.-- except never tried to justify mortal sin too much

Here is something interesting (maybe scary): I could not give up this one sin no matter what.. until i came back to hte Catholic Church (rosary, Holy Mass). The rosary began to disabuse me of many false thoughts and beliefs, and gave me the Holy Spirit in a far bigger way than... merely walking in my own strength

so anyway, yeh, it is hard to conceive of a place of great misery and torment that never ends. I find it difficult at times myself.. But in Isaiah it says that God's ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts.

which is another reason why we need the Church Christ founded... it is supernatural.. we are only natural and attracted, at times, to the supernatural... but we ourselves resist the supernatural... yet God cannot be obtained.. in the non-super-natural

 

[kerwin]

ScaliaFan,

God does not see mercy as humanity views mercy so I cannot use my judgement to say what is merciful and what is not. He is the teacher and I am the student. He is God and I am not.

Nevertheless, I believe that the wicked suffer for an indeterminate time and then are destroyed. It is possible the suffering is to give them time to repent but if so then Scripture is not clear about it.

 

[StanJ]

ScaliaFan,
God does not see mercy as humanity views mercy so I cannot use my judgement to say what is merciful and what is not. He is the teacher and I am the student. He is God and I am not.
Nevertheless, I believe that the wicked suffer for an indeterminate time and then are destroyed. It is possible the suffering is to give them time to repent but if so then Scripture is not clear about it.

Scripture is very clear about it if you're able to see it.
Matthew 25:46
"And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The juxtaposition between life and punishment is clear... They both enjoy it for eternity.

 

[kerwin]

StanJ,

There is no "eternal" in Koine Greek. Both words "eternal" in that passage would be better translated "indefinite".

Even if you insist on "eternal" it does not support your claim as if an individual is destroyed by being thrown in the fires of Gehenna they are eternally destroyed.

Jesus teaches us that both the body and soul are destroyed in Gehenna (Matthew 10:28) which disagrees with the claim of eternal suffering. Other passages do speak of suffering for ages upon ages which appears to support it. I seek a doctrine where both Scriptural claims are true.

 

[kerwin]

ScalliaFan,

You did not mention passages such as Matthew 10:28 which disagree with your conclusion.

 

[TopherNelson]

Kervin, ScalliaFan, and the rest,


Jesus's death paid for all sin. Everlasting life in hell is only possible because Jesus paid for all sin, It was the only way to save any of us.

Jesus said:
"Some will be raised to everlasting life and some will be raised to everlasting contempt"

 

[junobet]

Really?

then i guess Jesus is a liar? He mentions eternal Hell in several psgs, one of which is Mt 25:31-46.

Did God lie when He decided not to destroy Nineveh after all?
Would you be just as disappointed as Jonah was if everybody made it into heaven?

But in Isaiah it says that God's ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts.

Indeed, whereas we often feel the compulsion to take disproportionate vengeance, God chose to send Christ for the forgiveness of our sins. So I’d strongly recommend you fixate less on hell and more on the part in the Lord’s prayer where it says: “And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive them that trespass against us”.

 

[StanJ]

StanJ,

There is no "eternal" in Koine Greek. Both words "eternal" in that passage would be better translated "indefinite".

Even if you insist on "eternal" it does not support your claim as if an individual is destroyed by being thrown in the fires of Gehenna they are eternally destroyed.

Jesus teaches us that both the body and soul are destroyed in Gehenna (Matthew 10:28) which disagrees with the claim of eternal suffering. Other passages do speak of suffering for ages upon ages which appears to support it. I seek a doctrine where both Scriptural claims are true.

Thanks but I'll stick with the credentialed scholars who have translated it as eternal.
Jesus does not teach what you say he does Matthew 10:28. He says fear a God that CAN, not one that will. You need to stop adding your own interpolation to the word of God and just read it for what he says.

 

[kerwin]

Stan,

I would rather stick with the Spirit of God than with someone tell me what my itching ears want to know.

Credentialed Scholars debate the issue but even those that believe it is correct to translation know that Koine Greek does not have an equivalent of the word "eternal". There choice is base based on their perception of the context.

Never the less my reason for disagreeing with them stems from fact Scripture is not broken and so both those passages that say the wicked will be destroyed and those that say they will suffer for ages and ages must be true.

Your point about Mathew 10:28 is good but that passage infers that God will do it if an individual does not repent. Inferences can be wrong In Luke 13:5 explicitly makes the case that those that do not repent will perish.

 

[StanJ]

Stan,

I would rather stick with the Spirit of God than with someone tell me what my itching ears want to know.

Credentialed Scholars debate the issue but even those that believe it is correct to translation know that Koine Greek does not have an equivalent of the word "eternal". There choice is base based on their perception of the context.

Never the less my reason for disagreeing with them stems from fact Scripture is not broken and so both those passages that say the wicked will be destroyed and those that say they will suffer for ages and ages must be true.

Your point about Mathew 10:28 is good but that passage infers that God will do it if an individual does not repent. Inferences can be wrong In Luke 13:5 explicitly makes the case that those that do not repent will perish.

Well that's awfully convenient for you isn't it? You just decide what you want to believe and then say that the spirit of God told you. That's malarkey. The corner Greek does only have one word for eternal just as English only has one word for love but just as Eternal in Greek has three different connotations love translated from the Greek is translated from 3 different words. Actually 4. So you go ahead and think yourself to be a qualified scholar when we all know you're not and we'll just stick with those scholars we know are qualified and have already translated the Greek into modern-day English. I do not doubt their qualifications, however I seriously doubt you have any qualifications. Perish in the Bible, always relates to the body, never the spirit.

 

[TopherNelson]

Well that's awfully convenient for you isn't it? You just decide what you want to believe and then say that the spirit of God told you. That's malarkey. The corner Greek does only have one word for eternal just as English only has one word for love but just as Eternal in Greek has three different connotations love translated from the Greek is translated from 3 different words. Actually 4. So you go ahead and think yourself to be a qualified scholar when we all know you're not and we'll just stick with those scholars we know are qualified and have already translated the Greek into modern-day English. I do not doubt their qualifications, however I seriously doubt you have any qualifications. Perish in the Bible, always relates to the body, never the spirit.

There's something in Jeremiah that says "Cursed are those who follow their own wicked heart, who can understand it?"

 

[Dcopymope]

Well that's awfully convenient for you isn't it? You just decide what you want to believe and then say that the spirit of God told you. That's malarkey. The corner Greek does only have one word for eternal just as English only has one word for love but just as Eternal in Greek has three different connotations love translated from the Greek is translated from 3 different words. Actually 4. So you go ahead and think yourself to be a qualified scholar when we all know you're not and we'll just stick with those scholars we know are qualified and have already translated the Greek into modern-day English. I do not doubt their qualifications, however I seriously doubt you have any qualifications. Perish in the Bible, always relates to the body, never the spirit.

You know what one of my biggest pet peeves is concerning peoples interpretation of scripture? Its when you point out something as self-evident in Gods word as Hell being eternal, but they disregard what it plainly states by pretending to be experts on the Hebrew or Greek language.

The Denier of truth: "Hell is not eternal"

You: Matthew 25:46
"And these will depart into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The Denier of truth: Ohhh but the Greek..

To all who this may concern, if your interpretation does not line up with the self-evident, 2 + 2 = 4 teaching of scripture in plain English, then that makes your interpretation null and void to start with. I don't give a damn about what is supposedly stated in Hebrew, Greek, or any other language you pretend to know if it is heretical. You are no longer arguing with me, you are arguing with God and his word.

 

[kerwin]

StanJ,

Well that's awfully convenient for you isn't it? You just decide what you want to believe and then say that the spirit of God told you

It does not care what I or anyone else says. It cares what is and it is written:

John 6:45 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Have faith.

 

[kerwin]

Dcopymote,

Are you denying that those that refuse to repent perish because it is plainly written in Scripture that they do.

 

[TopherNelson]

Please read revelation. Read revelation again!
"And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever"
They will not ever burn away and will never die.

Just like the angels they will be as they scream and cry. Their choice they made to hate and spit, to reject the life of God and sin.

 

[StanJ]

It does not care what I or anyone else says. It cares what is and it is written:
John 6:45 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Have faith.

HE most definitely does because he is God and anybody who teaches against his word is teaching against God. One has to actually have God in their life in order to be able to teach about God and one has to actually have Jesus in their life to teach about Jesus, and one has to actually have received the in filling of the Holy Spirit in their life to be able to know and understand his written word of God. 3 strikes...you're out!
John 20:30-31
Now Jesus performed many other miraculous signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are recorded so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Romans 10:17
Consequently faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the preached word of Christ.

 

[ScaliaFan]

ScaliaFan,

God does not see mercy as humanity views mercy so I cannot use my judgement to say what is merciful and what is not. He is the teacher and I am the student. He is God and I am not.

Nevertheless, I believe that the wicked suffer for an indeterminate time and then are destroyed. It is possible the suffering is to give them time to repent but if so then Scripture is not clear about it.

i think Scripture is very clear: Hell lasts 4ever

and even if you don't believe that, you have to.. as your post indicates.. take a position of uncertainty... and then tell yourself that better safe than sorry

 

[ScaliaFan]

StanJ,

There is no "eternal" in Koine Greek. Both words "eternal" in that passage would be better translated "indefinite".

Even if you insist on "eternal" it does not support your claim as if an individual is destroyed by being thrown in the fires of Gehenna they are eternally destroyed.

Jesus teaches us that both the body and soul are destroyed in Gehenna (Matthew 10:28) which disagrees with the claim of eternal suffering. Other passages do speak of suffering for ages upon ages which appears to support it. I seek a doctrine where both Scriptural claims are true.

the soul is immortal, which means it nver dies

 

[ScaliaFan]

Dcopymote,

Are you denying that those that refuse to repent perish because it is plainly written in Scripture that they do.

the soul is immortal

it is never utterly destroyed

 

[kerwin]

ScalliaFan,

the soul is immortal

it is never utterly destroyed

That traditional teaching is not in Scripture. In addition God can do anything.