Help with John 1:12-13

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friend of

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I feel like the more I've been reading scripture lately, the more I've been finding contradictions.

John 1:12

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

Now, correct me if I'm wrong. To recieve something or someone implies that a decision is made to accept that person or thing, right? To accept or reject anything necessitates free will, does it not?

1 John 1:13

...children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God

This very next verse states the opposite of previous in that it denies a decision of receptation was made by a person and inserts God's Sovereignty. How does this work? Does He allow us to accept His terms or does He override and make the decision for us?

It even says we are not born of a husband's will, but God is supposed to be our husband and it is His will that we be saved, for if it is not, then whose will could it possibly be?

Can anyone smarter than me explain this?
 
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Randy Kluth

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I feel like the more I've been reading scripture lately, the more I've been finding contradictions.

John 1:12

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

Now, correct me if I'm wrong. To recieve something or someone implies that a decision is made to accept that person or thing, right? To accept or reject anything necessitates free will, does it not?

1 John 1:13

...children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God

This very next verse states the opposite of previous in that it denies a decision of receptation was made by a person and inserts God's Sovereignty. How does this work? Does He allow us to accept His terms or does He override and make the decision for us?

It even says we are not born of a husband's will, but God is supposed to be our husband and it is His will that we be saved, for if it is not, then whose will could it possibly be?

Can anyone smarter than me explain this?
That's perceptive of you, even though I think it's only an "apparent contradiction," and not a *real contradiction." We are asked to freely choose for something that we would logically accept.

For example, if I was a great lover of ice cream, and a friend offered me some free ice cream, it's pretty likely that I would accept. It doesn't mean I have to accept it--only that it's fairly predictable that I will accept.

It's this way with the Gospel. God has created men with the inclination towards wanting eternal fellowship with God. So God has determined He will have so many, despite the presence of many who say, "No." So God does extend His invitation not by the wish of human will, but rather, by His own purpose, in order to obtain the "Yes" answer.

In other words, we cannot "will" to have Eternal Life unless it is 1st offered to us.

1 John 4.9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
13 This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
19 We love because he first loved us.


Would you say that because someone 1st had the idea to offer me ice cream that I don't have free will in accepting it? No, someone has to make the 1st choice, and then comes the 2nd choice, the response.

God offered the world Eternal Life through His Son, Jesus. He *chose* a set number of people to be His elect. But the elect show they belong to Him by responding to Him, precisely because they are attracted to Him and indulge their inward desire to do so.

Those who reject that offer still have been given the opportunity. But they feel no inclination towards wanting eternal fellowship with God, but rather, insist on going life alone in an independent, rebellious mode.

I see no contradiction with this. The real problem is in understanding why Man rejected the word of God in the beginning when He told them not to go independent, and then began to create a mix in the human race between those who want to live by their own knowledge and those who want to turn back to living by divine knowledge alone.

I personally think the problem is that God built within the human race an inheritance factor by which Man can override God's will to save all. By choosing an independent knowledge, and then procreating with this kind of "mixed" spiritual DNA, there is distributed throughout the children of mankind two kinds of people. One kind are attracted to God's word and to the idea of eternal fellowship with God, and living by His word alone. The other kind are repulsed by God's control, and find it much more exciting to do one's own thing.
 
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Pearl

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It means that we all have the choice at some time in our lives to either accept/receive Jesus and so become reborn into God's family. The passage doesn't contradict itself, it just means that the act of re-birthing is of God not of ourselves. We just make the choice to accept/receive Jesus and God does the rest and He makes us part of His family.
 

Charlie24

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I feel like the more I've been reading scripture lately, the more I've been finding contradictions.

John 1:12

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

Now, correct me if I'm wrong. To recieve something or someone implies that a decision is made to accept that person or thing, right? To accept or reject anything necessitates free will, does it not?

1 John 1:13

...children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God

This very next verse states the opposite of previous in that it denies a decision of receptation was made by a person and inserts God's Sovereignty. How does this work? Does He allow us to accept His terms or does He override and make the decision for us?

It even says we are not born of a husband's will, but God is supposed to be our husband and it is His will that we be saved, for if it is not, then whose will could it possibly be?

Can anyone smarter than me explain this?

Let's take a look at John 1:13 in the KJV. It will come together better I think.

" Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

This verse is the explanation of the the previous verse (12) It's explaining how we become the "children of God."

"Which were born not of blood" We cannot become the children of God by natural birth, it must be by the Spirit.

"nor of the will of the flesh" Man cannot become the children of God by the works of the flesh/works.

"nor the will of man" Man's religious efforts will not make him a child of God.

"but by God" Man becomes the child of God only by the Grace of God, not by anything man can do.

In other words, the salvation of man, becoming a child of God, is all the work of God and none of man!
 

1stCenturyLady

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I feel like the more I've been reading scripture lately, the more I've been finding contradictions.

John 1:12

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

Now, correct me if I'm wrong. To recieve something or someone implies that a decision is made to accept that person or thing, right? To accept or reject anything necessitates free will, does it not?

1 John 1:13

...children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God

This very next verse states the opposite of previous in that it denies a decision of receptation was made by a person and inserts God's Sovereignty. How does this work? Does He allow us to accept His terms or does He override and make the decision for us?

It even says we are not born of a husband's will, but God is supposed to be our husband and it is His will that we be saved, for if it is not, then whose will could it possibly be?

Can anyone smarter than me explain this?
You are reading a weird translation. No wonder you are confused! "Husband" just means natural birth from a man's sperm. Not born of the Spirit with the seed of the Father. Here is the New King James Version

10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

We are not born into the Kingdom of God by a natural birth. We cannot make ourselves born again of the Spirit. All we can do is REPENT. Jesus takes it from there and gives us His Spirit to free us from sin and become partakers of the divine nature of God. 2 Peter 1:2-4
 
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CadyandZoe

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I feel like the more I've been reading scripture lately, the more I've been finding contradictions.

John 1:12

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

Now, correct me if I'm wrong. To recieve something or someone implies that a decision is made to accept that person or thing, right? To accept or reject anything necessitates free will, does it not?

1 John 1:13

...children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God

This very next verse states the opposite of previous in that it denies a decision of receptation was made by a person and inserts God's Sovereignty. How does this work? Does He allow us to accept His terms or does He override and make the decision for us?

It even says we are not born of a husband's will, but God is supposed to be our husband and it is His will that we be saved, for if it is not, then whose will could it possibly be?

Can anyone smarter than me explain this?
God decides who will believe him and who won't.
 

Johann

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I feel like the more I've been reading scripture lately, the more I've been finding contradictions.

John 1:12

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

Now, correct me if I'm wrong. To recieve something or someone implies that a decision is made to accept that person or thing, right? To accept or reject anything necessitates free will, does it not?

1 John 1:13

...children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God

This very next verse states the opposite of previous in that it denies a decision of receptation was made by a person and inserts God's Sovereignty. How does this work? Does He allow us to accept His terms or does He override and make the decision for us?

It even says we are not born of a husband's will, but God is supposed to be our husband and it is His will that we be saved, for if it is not, then whose will could it possibly be?

Can anyone smarter than me explain this?
As many as (ὅσοι)
Denoting individuals, as οἱ ἴδιοι (Joh_1:11) signified the nation at large.
Received (ἔλαβον)
The simple verb of the compound παρέλαβον in Joh_1:11. The meaning of the two verbs is substantially the same (so Alford, De Wette, and apparently Meyer), though some recognize a difference, as Milligan and Moulton, who render παρέλαβον accepted, and ἔλαβον received, and say that “the former lays emphasis upon the will that consented (or refused) to receive, while the latter brings before us the possession gained: so that the full meaning is, As many as by accepting Him, received Him.” For the use of the simple verb, see Joh_5:43; Joh_13:20; Joh_19:6.
Vincent


Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Which were born , [ egenneetheesan (G1080)]. Observe this word "born," or begotten.’ It was not a name only, a dignity only, which Christ conferred on them: it was a new birth, it was a change of nature-the soul being made conscious, in virtue of it, of the vital capacities, perceptions, and emotions a ’child of God,’ to which before it was a total stranger. But now for the Source and Author of that new birth-both negatively and positively.
Not of blood - not of ’superior human descent,’ as we judge the meaning to be,
Nor of the will of the flesh - not of ’human generation’ at all,
Nor of the will of man - not of man in any of the ways in which his will brings anything about. By this elaborate, three-fold denial of the human and earthly source of this sonship, how emphatic does the following declaration of its real source become!
But of God. A sonship strictly divine then, in its source this was which Christ conferred on as many as received Him. Right royal gift which whoever confers must be absolutely divine. For who would not worship Him who can bring him into the family, and evoke within him the life, of the children of God? Now comes the great climax, to introduce and raise us to the altitude of which the foregoing thirteen verses were penned.
JFB

So now He offers Himself to all mankind again and to those who receive Him, He gives the right or authority to become children of God.
This verse tells us clearly how we can become children of God. It is not by good works, not by church membership, not by doing one's best—but by receiving Him, by believing in His Name.
1:13 To become a child in a physical sense, one must be born. So, also, to become a child of God, one must have a second birth. This is known as the new birth, or conversion, or being saved. This verse tells us three ways by which the new birth does not take place, and the one way by which it does. First, the three ways by which we are not born again. Not of blood. This means that a person does not become a Christian through having Christian parents. Salvation is not passed down from parent to child through the blood stream. It is not of the will of the flesh. In other words, a person does not have the power in his own flesh to produce the new birth. Although he must be willing in order to be saved, yet his own will is not enough to save him. Not of the will of man. No other man can save a person. A preacher, for instance, may be very anxious to see a certain person born again, but he does not have the power to produce this marvelous birth. How, then, does this birth take place? The answer is found in the words but of God. This means simply that the power to produce the new birth does not rest with anything or anyone but God.

Hope this makes sense
J.
 
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Lambano

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Right there you see Man's responsibility - the responsibility to receive (λαμβάνω) Him, to trust in His name....

And God's sovereignty - the authority to confer upon whomever He chooses the privilege (ἐξουσία in verse 12) of being His child.

The Bible teaches both God's sovereignty and Human responsibility. Some consider it paradoxical; in this particular case I do not.
 
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Gottservant

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Be careful not to assume, that repentance is your work.

Repentance is your surrender, to God having done the work.

The path of one way is surrender, the other is presumption.
 

CadyandZoe

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Doctrine of election, right?
J.
Yes. I think the Bible recognizes that we experience salvation in terms of the choices we make. We answer "yes" to the question. We go forward at the alter call. We raise our hand. We bow our knees in petitions for mercy and forgiveness. We openly confess our belief in Jesus Christ. We openly submit to baptism. We openly live in obedience. And so forth.

But the Bible also recognizes the prevenient grace of God: the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ; sending a preacher and evangelist; sending the Holy Spirit to convict of sin. And so forth.

Finally, the Bible recognizes the depth, profundity, and extent of God's grace goes far beyond his prevenient grace. For those whom God has chosen to save, he opens their eyes, and softens their hearts. He pours out his spirit on the elect and they experience the miracle of salvation. One moment a rebel; the next moment a contrite and honest heart.

Give God the glory because by his grace we are saved.
 

Deborah_

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I feel like the more I've been reading scripture lately, the more I've been finding contradictions.

John 1:12

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

Now, correct me if I'm wrong. To recieve something or someone implies that a decision is made to accept that person or thing, right? To accept or reject anything necessitates free will, does it not?

1 John 1:13

...children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God

This very next verse states the opposite of previous in that it denies a decision of receptation was made by a person and inserts God's Sovereignty. How does this work? Does He allow us to accept His terms or does He override and make the decision for us?

It even says we are not born of a husband's will, but God is supposed to be our husband and it is His will that we be saved, for if it is not, then whose will could it possibly be?

Can anyone smarter than me explain this?
Becoming a Christian is a combination of our free decision and God's supernatural intervention - because we have to be born again, which is not our doing but the work of His Spirit.
What John is emphasising here is that membership of God’s family cannot be inherited from our parents (whether Jewish or Christian), nor bestowed by legislation, nor achieved by personal effort. And we can't make the decision for anyone else, only for ourselves.
 
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Ernest T. Bass

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I feel like the more I've been reading scripture lately, the more I've been finding contradictions.

John 1:12

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

Now, correct me if I'm wrong. To recieve something or someone implies that a decision is made to accept that person or thing, right? To accept or reject anything necessitates free will, does it not?

1 John 1:13

...children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God

This very next verse states the opposite of previous in that it denies a decision of receptation was made by a person and inserts God's Sovereignty. How does this work? Does He allow us to accept His terms or does He override and make the decision for us?

It even says we are not born of a husband's will, but God is supposed to be our husband and it is His will that we be saved, for if it is not, then whose will could it possibly be?

Can anyone smarter than me explain this?
Hi,

John 1:12 deomonstrates that belief alone is not sufficient to save. Belief alone does not make one a child of God, but for those who do beleive they are given the power to BECOME a child of God. Without belief, repentance would be impossible (Lk 13:3) confession of Christ impossible (Matt 10:32-33) submitting to baptism impossible (Acts 2:38; Acts 10:47-48) walking in the light would be impossible (1 Jn 1:7).

John 1:13 Jesus came to His own, the Jews v11, but they rejected Him, they would not receive Him for they were looking to find salvation some other way than Christ:

"not of blood" - one is not saved by physical descent. Just being a descendant of Abraham did not mean automatic salvation as those Jews wrongly thought........ (Luke 3:8)...."The Jews thought that Messiah would rule over them as a nation, and that all Jews would, therefore, be by birthright citizens of his kingdom. They thought that descent from Abraham was all that would be necessary to bring them into that kingdom. John’s words must have been very surprising to them" - McGarvey.

nor of the will of the flesh" - man's own efforts cannot save him. In Rom 4:1-2 Paul asked what did Abraham find according to the flesh, that is, what did Abraham gain by his own efforts? Nothing. Did Abraham of his own efforts keep the law perfectly, sinlessly whereby he would have something to boast about? No. Abraham would not have reason to boast in God if he could justify himself by keeping the law perfectly of his own effort.

"nor of the will of man" - man cannot devise his own plan of salvation. Rom 10:3 the Jews were lost for they went about establishing their OWN righteousness instead of being obedient to GOD's righteousness...they rejected God's plan of salvation trying to save themselves by their own man made plans. Nor can a man be saved by the actions and will of other men, one man cannot force salvation upon another man.

"but born of God" - salvation is of God, it is by God through His plan for man to be saved by being obedient to Christ (Heb 5:9). It is those who do God's will that will enter the kingdom (Matt 7:21) by obediently submitting to water baptism. The obedient are the ones who are born of God (Jn 3:5) born of water and of the Spirit who enter the kingdom.
 
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Ernest T. Bass

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Doctrine of election, right?
J.
The Bible does teach election...it teaches corporate election where men of their own free will choose to become part of the corporate group called Christian. Those who do choose to become a Christian are then of that elect group. Therefore God can justly, rightly condemn those who did of their own will choose not to be of that elect group.
The BIble does NOT teach unconditional election of certain individuals over other individuals for such would make God a respecter of persons (Acts 10:34-35) , have God unjustly condemning men for what God chose for man not what man chose for himself.

God determined salvation would be "in Christ" (note how many times "in Christ" or "in Him" is used in Eph 1:3-14). Therefore election is CONDITIONALLY in Christ and those who choose to come to Christ in obedience in submitting to baptism are baptized into Christ becoming part of the elect body of Christ. Therefore it is impossible for one to be UNconditionally of the elect separate and apart from Christ. Nothing in the NT about indiviudals being UNconditionally sealed (Eph 1:13) separate and apart from being in Christ, in the body of Christ.

Those who choose not to come to Christ will not be of the elect and be lost due to THEIR choice and not by a capricious, unconditional choice made by God for them. Calvinism tries to destroy this free will of man making man a slave to what God decreed for man...God decrees man to sin and man can do nothing other than what God decrees. Rather God desires all men be saved, not just some (John 3:16; 1 Tim. 2:4; Tit. 2:11; 2 Pet. 3:9)......unconditional election goes agaisnt what God desires.

 
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Johann

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The Bible does teach election...it teaches corporate election where men of their own free will choose to become part of the corporate group called Christian. Those who do choose to become a Christian are then of that elect group. Therefore God can justly, rightly condemn those who did of their own will choose not to be of that elect group.
The BIble does NOT teach unconditional election of certain individuals over other individuals for such would make God a respecter of persons (Acts 10:34-35) , have God unjustly condemning men for what God chose for man not what man chose for himself.

God determined salvation would be "in Christ" (note how many times "in Christ" or "in Him" is used in Eph 1:3-14). Therefore election is CONDITIONALLY in Christ and those who choose to come to Christ in obedience in submitting to baptism are baptized into Christ becoming part of the elect body of Christ. Therefore it is impossible for one to be UNconditionally of the elect separate and apart from Christ. Nothing in the NT about indiviudals being UNconditionally sealed (Eph 1:13) separate and apart from being in Christ, in the body of Christ.

Those who choose not to come to Christ will not be of the elect and be lost due to THEIR choice and not by a capricious, unconditional choice made by God for them. Calvinism tries to destroy this free will of man making man a slave to what God decreed for man...God decrees man to sin and man can do nothing other than what God decrees. Rather God desires all men be saved, not just some (John 3:16; 1 Tim. 2:4; Tit. 2:11; 2 Pet. 3:9)......unconditional election goes agaisnt what God desires.

Appreciate the info, but if you look around you, how many Christians do you "see?"

Mat_7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Mat_9:37 Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few;

Mat_20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Mat_22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Today, in our Modern world, we even have our own "spiritual lingo".....conditional, unconditional, penial, grace, a second grace, Arminian, Calvinism....and so Christian keeps on fighting against Christian

Matthew 25.
 

friend of

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Those who choose not to come to Christ will not be of the elect and be lost due to THEIR choice and not by a capricious, unconditional choice made by God for them. Calvinism tries to destroy this free will of man making man a slave to what God decreed for man...God decrees man to sin and man can do nothing other than what God decrees. Rather God desires all men be saved, not just some (John 3:16; 1 Tim. 2:4; Tit. 2:11; 2 Pet. 3:9)......unconditional election goes agaisnt what God desires.
Yeah this is pretty much exactly why I have come to the conclusion that I cannot be a Calvinist recently. Free will is a vital doctrine and people don't seem to realize just how vital it is.

Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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I feel like the more I've been reading scripture lately, the more I've been finding contradictions.

John 1:12

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

Now, correct me if I'm wrong. To recieve something or someone implies that a decision is made to accept that person or thing, right? To accept or reject anything necessitates free will, does it not?

1 John 1:13

...children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God

This very next verse states the opposite of previous in that it denies a decision of receptation was made by a person and inserts God's Sovereignty. How does this work? Does He allow us to accept His terms or does He override and make the decision for us?

It even says we are not born of a husband's will, but God is supposed to be our husband and it is His will that we be saved, for if it is not, then whose will could it possibly be?

Can anyone smarter than me explain this?
Simple:

Teh A part of teh verse is a simple statement of fact. The fact is that as many as receive. That is all it means. the indefinite number who recieve, it does not say how or why or when or who.

The B part of teh verse is also simple. We are not born naturally but spiritually. It is the spiritual birth explained further in the epistles.
 
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Space_Karen

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John 1:12

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—


1 John 1:13

...children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God

1 john 5 reconciles both points:

Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
 
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