HEY BALDY!

[aspen]

This thread is for all the literalists out there. As many of you know, Elisha was a prophet that lived during the time of the OT and is written about in 2 Kings. He was a student of Elijah and was present when God took him up to Heaven in a chariot of fire. Before he was taken up, Elisha asked Elijah for a double portion of his spirit; hmm, is this an appropriate thing for Christians to ask for from loved ones on their deathbed? According to the scriptures it is - because Elisha received what he asked for and a company of the prophets from Jericho, recognized that Elisha did indeed receive his spirit.

Later, after preforming a few miracles, Elisha was traveling and 2 Kings 2:23-25 provides this account:

[sup]23[/sup] From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” [sup]24[/sup] He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. [sup]25[/sup] And he went on to Mount Carmel and from there returned to Samaria.


So, apparently, being referred to as bald in a mocking and scoffing manner, is grounds for dismemberment and certain ingestion. Indeed, according to a literal reading of the scripture, praying for the death of boys who refer to you in jest, according to the features of your smooth pate, will result in the appearance of two large omnivores of the Ursus genus, followed by an effective and efficient mauling.

So sayeth the Lord.

As you can imagine, this raises a slew of questions.......

1. What is a 'double portion' of a person's spirit and how do I get some?
2. Is it the combination of baldness, bears, and boys that resulted in God's faithful mauling or simply the mocking aspect?
3. Do you have to be bald, a boy, or possibly a bear to profit from this cautionary, true account? If so, what can be learned?
4. As absurd as this may be, could there possibly be a metaphorical interpretation of this account that may provide us with a better understanding?

Comments welcome.

 

[tomwebster]

I don't know why you wouldn't take the account literally. Elisha did twice as many miracles as Elijah. It tells you not to mess with a true prophet of God. You know if someone tries to hurt the two witnesses in the end days they will be killed:

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

 

[aspen]

I don't know why you wouldn't take the account literally. Elisha did twice as many miracles as Elijah. It tells you not to mess with a true prophet of God. You know if someone tries to hurt the two witnesses in the end days they will be killed:

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

Children being rude results in death? Sure opens the possibilities up for teachers, today.

 

[tomwebster]

Children being rude results in death? Sure opens the possibilities up for teachers, today.

No, the teachers of today are not prophets of God and cannot be compared to Elisha.

 

[aspen]

No, the teachers of today are not prophets of God and cannot be compared to Elisha.

Why not? Isn't the OT relevant for us, today?

 

[tomwebster]

Why not? Isn't the OT relevant for us, today?

Of course the OT is relevant. That does not mean teachers are prophets of God. Elisha was a Prophet of God not just some everyday teacher, don't you understand that?

 

[aspen]

Of course the OT is relevant. That does not mean teachers are prophets of God. Elisha was a Prophet of God not just some everyday teacher, don't you understand that?

I thought we were supposed to apply all parts of the Bible to our lives, not pick and choose.

 

[tomwebster]

I thought we were supposed to apply all parts of the Bible to our lives, not pick and choose.

Do you know what a Prophet of God is?

 

[aspen]

Do you know what a Prophet of God is?

A prophet of God is the mouthpiece of God or the shaliach - one who is sent out. God used him to speak to His people in the OT. All the messages of prophets in the OT pointed to the fulfillment of all prophecy - the birth, life, and resurrection of Jesus, fully man/fully God.


Are you glad I didn't say "Do you know what a prophet is?"

 

[tomwebster]

A prophet of God is the mouthpiece of God or the shaliach - one who is sent out. God used him to speak to His people in the OT. All the messages of prophets in the OT pointed to the fulfillment of all prophecy - the birth, life, and resurrection of Jesus, fully man/fully God.


Are you glad I didn't say "Do you know what a prophet is?"

It certainly would not have mattered to me if you had asked.

 

[veteran]

II Ki 2:23-24
23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, "Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head."
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
(KJV)

That's one of the Scriptures atheists often try and use to mock God in their vain attempt to paint God and His servants as unrighteous. They haven't a clue what else was going on in those days of Elijah and Elisha which puts that event in Biblical perspective.

Just what was happening at Bethel in those days? False worship, idol calf worship, and that's where the prophets of Baal were also gathered. King Ahab at Samaria and his wife Jezebel had murdered most of God's prophets, and had tried to murder Elijah also. (How soon some folks seem to forget that.)

The Hebrew for "children" there most often refers to a young man, a youth. Those youths were likely sent out to mock Elisha by the Baal prophets there at Bethel. The Baal prophets evidently knew God had taken Elijah up, and they sent those youths out to mock Elisha, also telling him to "Go up, thou bald head." So they weren't just mocking Elisha, they were mocking God Himself for taking Elijah up.

A true prophet sent by God would never abuse their office, which is what atheists try to show Elisha doing with cursing those youths who mocked not just him, but God Himself through Elijah's office.

 

[aspen]

II Ki 2:23-24
23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, "Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head."
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
(KJV)

That's one of the Scriptures atheists often try and use to mock God in their vain attempt to paint God and His servants as unrighteous. They haven't a clue what else was going on in those days of Elijah and Elisha which puts that event in Biblical perspective.

Just what was happening at Bethel in those days? False worship, idol calf worship, and that's where the prophets of Baal were also gathered. King Ahab at Samaria and his wife Jezebel had murdered most of God's prophets, and had tried to murder Elijah also. (How soon some folks seem to forget that.)

The Hebrew for "children" there most often refers to a young man, a youth. Those youths were likely sent out to mock Elisha by the Baal prophets there at Bethel. The Baal prophets evidently knew God had taken Elijah up, and they sent those youths out to mock Elisha, also telling him to "Go up, thou bald head." So they weren't just mocking Elisha, they were mocking God Himself for taking Elijah up.

A true prophet sent by God would never abuse their office, which is what atheists try to show Elisha doing with cursing those youths who mocked not just him, but God Himself through Elijah's office.

I've heard it from Mormon missionaries too.

 

[veteran]

I've heard it from Mormon missionaries too.

Just so you know, I wasn't calling you an atheist.

I've heard Christian brethren remark about that Scripture passage also, thinking it was too strong of a judgment on Elisha's part. But a Bible study of the period and what was going on then is necessary to understand it. There was literally a war going on between God and the prophets of Baal and the false worshipers among His people then. God had no problem slaying the Baal prophets at times when they had gone too far among His people.

 

[FHII]

The Bible says that Elisha cursed children and two she bears killed 42 of them. Yes, it sounds morbid, but I have no reason to believe it isn’t true, and didn’t physically happen. Jehu had Jezebel thrown down, and Moses instructed the Children of Israel to put blood on their door posts. Obviously, both were very symbolical. But it doesn’t mean that they didn’t happen.

If you are going to get caught up in Elisha being called bald head, then it would seem ridiculous that he would curse the lads and either he or the Lord would send two bears to avenge him. However, when reading the account closely, perhaps you will get a different perspective.

2 Kings 2:22-24 (KJV)

So the waters were healed unto this day, according to the saying of Elisha which he spoke. [23] And he went up from thence unto Bethel” and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. [24] And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tore forty and two children of them.

Elisha was called “bald head” or “baldy”. That is highly disrespectful and perhaps Elisha was a bit touchy about it. However, it is my opinion (and I note it is my opinion) that being made fun of wasn’t the reason Elisha cursed them.

The children said, “Go up, thou bald head.”. We focus on the obvious insult of “bald head” but consider the other part. Don’t forget what just happened. Elijah had just been taken up in a chariot of fire. It was witnessed by many, but you know how these things work! Jesus raised from the dead and had about 540 witnesses, and yet some still don’t believe it.

Being called “baldy” probably didn’t help. It was very disrespectful to a Man of God who just saved the community from a drought. In fact, I think that the drought had more to do with it than being called baldy. Elisha saved the city, and he was mocked??? But let me move on and get to the point. The real reason (in my opinion) that Elisha cursed the Children was due to their mocking Elijah being taken up. I don’t think their parents believed it and they (the parents) gossiped about it; that it didn’t happen and this nut job Elisha, was a hoax. In other words, Elisha didn’t curse the kiddies because they called him Baldy, he cursed them for their unbelief.

Again, that’s my opinion. The Bible doesn’t say why Elisha cursed them and why the bears killed them, but it makes more sense to believe that they were killed for not believing the great event of Elijah being taken up than it does to believe Elisha was over sensitive about being bald. If the reason wasn’t lack of respect for the event of Elijah being taken up, the reason of ingratitude for the healing of the waters is also enough. Being called Baldy is a third and last reason.

　

　

　

　

　

　

　

 

[tomwebster]

...Are you glad I didn't say "Do you know what a prophet is?"

I don't ask questions I can't answer.