Holy Spirit

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ami

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My friend and I have been discussing and debating for the past three days on who the Holy Spirit is and if God live in people. My friend who is a Christian says the Holy Spirit is the breath of God, as it is mentioned in Genesis when God breathed in to Adam’s nostrils to give him life. But I say that the Holly spirit is God himself. My friend believes that God can not live in a person. I told my friend that since the Holly spirit is God, he ( the holly spirit) live in us when we believe in God and his only son. I would like to hear more on what you think on this.
 

RichardBurger

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Flesh and Spirit:I have been studying the difference between the flesh and the Spirit and would like to share what I understand about it.In the scripture below we see that Jesus made a difference between the flesh and the Spirit in verse 6. It does not say the flesh is born again.John 3:5-6 NKJV5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.In the scripture below we see Jesus describing the Spiritual nature of the child of God that has been reborn of the Holy Spirit.John 3:7-8 NKJV7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." In the scriptures below we see that Paul is also saying that there are two natures to the child of God, one born of the flesh and one born of the Spirit of God. These two natures are always with a child of God and are always warring against each other.Rom 7:14-20 NKJV14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. In the scripture below we see that flesh and blood will not enter heaven. Only the Spirit that has been born of God will enter heaven.1 Cor 15:50 NKJV50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. NKJVCorruption can not be made un-corrupted. So we must consider that the flesh can never be made Righteous or Holy. When the scriptures tell us we must put on righteousness, or put on Holiness, it is not talking about our efforts to make our flesh nature righteous or holy. It is saying that we must “put on Jesus” in the Spirit. As Paul said in the following scripture.Col 1:19-23 NKJV19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell,20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight —23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. In the scriptures below we see that flesh and blood can never be made perfect, or righteous, or Holy, by the will and efforts of the flesh, period. The born again child of God, in the Spirit, is only righteous and Holy because they have been born again and placed “in Christ” by an operation of the Holy Spirit. They have put on Jesus and just as He was perfect in faith before God so are we perfect when we place our faith, trust, confidence and hope in Him.Gal 3:3 NKJV3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?In the scriptures below we see that salvation (being born again in the Spirit) can only be accomplished by the will of God and He (God) will save all that receive Jesus as their savior. It is also clear that those that do not receive Jesus as their savior, do not have the right to become children of God.John 1:10-13 NKJV10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. This writing is intended to help us understand the flesh nature and the Spirit nature of the child of God. It is not a writing that is meant to put down the efforts of the child of God to live a life that is pleasing to God.
 

whirlwind

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QUOTE (ami @ Mar 14 2009, 02:52 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70799
My friend and I have been discussing and debating for the past three days on who the Holy Spirit is and if God live in people. My friend who is a Christian says the Holy Spirit is the breath of God, as it is mentioned in Genesis when God breathed in to Adam’s nostrils to give him life. But I say that the Holly spirit is God himself. My friend believes that God can not live in a person. I told my friend that since the Holly spirit is God, he ( the holly spirit) live in us when we believe in God and his only son. I would like to hear more on what you think on this.
When our "old man" of sin dies then Christ lives in us. We are all one body of Christ. He then begins to perfect us...to mature us in His Word.
 

savedbygrace57

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The Holy Ghost is God, God is a Trinity of Persons or Beings, Yet One God..The Triunity are manifested in scripture as the Father, Son or Word, and the Holy Ghost, each distinct and yet One Eternal God..
 

HammerStone

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QUOTE
My friend and I have been discussing and debating for the past three days on who the Holy Spirit is and if God live in people. My friend who is a Christian says the Holy Spirit is the breath of God, as it is mentioned in Genesis when God breathed in to Adam’s nostrils to give him life. But I say that the Holly spirit is God himself. My friend believes that God can not live in a person.
What, brother/sister, do the Scriptures say?QUOTE
John 14:6-8And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Now there is a lot said about the Ruach of Adonai, which is the Spirit. It is important to understand the breath aspect of the Holy Spirit, but that is only a part of the whole. You are correct in that the Holy Spirit is God, see where Jesus says "I will come to you" when he speaks in this passage? Only those that have the light to receive understand what's going on, but you know the Spirit to be the Father, as is the Son, correct?QUOTE
John 14:26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
QUOTE
Romans 8:26-27Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
 

RichardBurger

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QUOTE (whirlwind @ Mar 14 2009, 10:32 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70802
When our "old man" of sin dies then Christ lives in us. We are all one body of Christ. He then begins to perfect us...to mature us in His Word.
Are you perfected yet? Is your sinful body really dead at this moment? If your sinful body is dead then aren't you dead?IMHO what you believe is that the sinful flesh nature becomes sinless and I do not think the scriptures teach that at all.
 

HammerStone

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Are you perfected yet? Is your sinful body really dead at this moment? If your sinful body is dead then aren't you dead?
Awful lot of inference from a single statement, is it not?I'll let the poster respond before saying more.
 

RichardBurger

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QUOTE (Denver @ Mar 14 2009, 12:07 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70811
Awful lot of inference from a single statement, is it not?I'll let the poster respond before saying more.
1 Cor 15:50 NKJV50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. NKJVIMHO the sinful nature never changes, it remains sinful. As stated above in the scripture, corruption cannot inherit incorruption. The sinful nature does not change.
 

GeneralJ

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QUOTE (ami @ Mar 14 2009, 03:52 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70799
My friend and I have been discussing and debating for the past three days on who the Holy Spirit is and if God live in people. My friend who is a Christian says the Holy Spirit is the breath of God, as it is mentioned in Genesis when God breathed in to Adam’s nostrils to give him life. But I say that the Holly spirit is God himself. My friend believes that God can not live in a person. I told my friend that since the Holly spirit is God, he ( the holly spirit) live in us when we believe in God and his only son. I would like to hear more on what you think on this.
To understand this you must know that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one, and also distinct. This is “Spiritually” understood.A note here; this could easily turn into a debate concerning the trinity, however for the sake of the post I would like to say that those that are truly Gods children understand the “unity” of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and without speculation accept that they are unified as one.QUOTE
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
We are completely unable to receive salvation, understand truth, overcome sin, or live righteously without the Spirit of God in us. QUOTE
Ac 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.Zec 4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.Ro 8:10 ¶ And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. When you see in the Word the titles, Holy Spirit, Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ, this is one Spirit not many or different. See the scripture above; “there is one Spirit.”When we are “saved, born again, resurrected unto life,” as the Word says, our spirit is reborn from “spiritual death,” and resurrected to life in Christ. Before salvation we are “spiritually dead.” However without the “indwelling” of the Holy Spirit we CANNOT grow and mature in Christ. For example (and simplicities sake) how would a baby born of flesh and blood feed or raise itself without help? So how would our “infant spirits” grow and mature without the Guidance and influence of the Holy Spirit?This is a very important fact to understand, and many will not, for they believe that they can find the knowledge or truth of God by their own understanding, intelligence, and efforts. This is a great lie to believe we do not need the Spirit of God to learn of God.QUOTE
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Yes the Spirit of God must dwell in us;QUOTE
Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)Mr 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Being that we have the Spirit of Christ in us, we are to be like minded and therefore unified in Christ, in one body. The same Spirit, mind, purpose, and perfect unity is what we are maturing towards, as Christ is perfectly unified with the Father.QUOTE
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Hope that helps.God bless,General
 

whirlwind

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QUOTE (RichardBurger @ Mar 14 2009, 11:49 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70813
1 Cor 15:50 NKJV50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. NKJVIMHO the sinful nature never changes, it remains sinful. As stated above in the scripture, corruption cannot inherit incorruption. The sinful nature does not change.
I thank Denver for allowing me to answer this....yes, a great deal is inferred from my original statement. Please reread it for I said.....He then BEGINS to perfect us.So, I will answer your question with...no, I am not perfected but...I am on my way.
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It began when Christ became part of me. I must disagree with you for a sinful nature does change and quite drastically. The scripture you quoted refers to the change in bodies at the end of this age, from flesh to spirit. The elect become incorruptible and immortal while all others become incorruptible and must still put on immortality.....flesh is gone forever and all will be in spirit.
 

Vickie

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QUOTE (ami @ Mar 14 2009, 02:52 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70799
what the Holy Spirit is and if God live in people. My friend who is a Christian says the Holy Spirit is the breath of God, as it is mentioned in Genesis when God breathed in to Adam’s nostrils to give him life. But I say that the Holly spirit is God himself. My friend believes that God can not live in a person. I told my friend that since the Holly spirit is God, he ( the holly spirit) live in us when we believe in God and his only son. I would like to hear more on what you think on this.
You bring a interesting topic up for study. 1. Who or what is the Holy. I'll give you what I have found. It's not complete but has a lot of insight in it. Ps. 51:11 take not thy Holy Spirit from me. (Goth words Kodesh and Rooakh are used in this verse)Holy Spirit is both Strong's ref. # 6944 Kodesh and 7307 RooakhKodesh is the Holiness of God is translated 468 times Rooakh translate as the Breath of God 232 times in the bible. God breaths his spirit into men. I don't think any of us have the complete knowledge of this phenomenon that God brings into us and through us from HIM. All we have are these great verses that help us to understand better the great works the He alone performs in us all. Ecc. 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from and the spirit returns to God who gave it. God's spirit belongs to him it returns to him, this is not our spirit returning to God, as these words express it. Ecc. 3:21 All go to the same place; all come from the dust, and to the dust all return. Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes downward? Based clearly upon the clause: "The Spirit belongs to HIM and it returns to him". God is spirit and omnipotent and he gave men a portion of his spirit, called the breath of life. For me this verse is clear in defining we do not go to heavenwhen we die, only the Spirit that was from God leaves us and goes back to Him for it is his. Do any of us fully understandthis? NO, none of us do, for the things of God are His, and we speak of things that are too wonderful for any of us to know the fullness of. Just as Job said in Job 42:3 Job 7:9 As the cloud is consumed and vanishes away; so he that goes down to the grave shall com up on more.This is my opinion is Ecc. 12:7 in how I am perceiving that which is written through my study.1 Peter 1:21 says the prophets of God were carried along by the Holy SpiritI found this statement from Peter interesting for he has established the Prophets hadthe Spirit of Christ, for they spoke of His soon appearing in the Flesh. Giving full details of the Christ,his reigning upon the earth and this was their hope as well as ours. They will be with us in the comingkingdom of God upon this earth. Which is in process now to come to fulfillment all that is written to bringthe Christ back. In my assumption of all that I've read in the bible, the Holy Spirit is the breath of the Lord given to us. He Holy Spirit has been here on earth from the creation of earth and of men. It is something we can notgrasp the fullness of, it is too wonderful for any of us. He does His works through His Holy Spirit in us. We are his servant unto that Spirit which has been gifted to all of us. Some are given this gift in the form of HIS speaking through those who prophesy of his coming,his warnings to men. 2. Does God live in us? I Cor 3:6 Yes, God dwells in us all through HIS HOLY SPIRIT that he has breathe into us all. In Christ's precious words that give lifeVickie
 

RichardBurger

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QUOTE (whirlwind @ Mar 14 2009, 01:50 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70816
I thank Denver for allowing me to answer this....yes, a great deal is inferred from my original statement. Please reread it for I said.....He then BEGINS to perfect us.So, I will answer your question with...no, I am not perfected but...I am on my way.
laugh.gif
It began when Christ became part of me. I must disagree with you for a sinful nature does change and quite drastically. The scripture you quoted refers to the change in bodies at the end of this age, from flesh to spirit. The elect become incorruptible and immortal while all others become incorruptible and must still put on immortality.....flesh is gone forever and all will be in spirit.

Okay, I accept the fact that you believe as you do. But I don't and will say that I don't. I do not believe the sinful nature of a child of God becomes less sinful. It never becomes sinless.So you are on your way, you are beginning to be perfected. Well I am already there. I am perfect before God because I am in Jesus Christ. I have been placed in Jesus Christ by God Himself. I do not believe in progessive salvation, progressive justification, progressive sanctification, or progressive righteousness. According to the scriptures we have these things in the spirit the moment we are made children of God, by God.1 Cor 6:11But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.NKJVIf the child of God is not saved from his/her sinful nature by God then they are not saved. That does not mean we are saved by changing the sinful nature. It means we are saved in spite of our sinful nature.
 

whirlwind

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QUOTE (RichardBurger @ Mar 14 2009, 02:42 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70828
Okay, I accept the fact that you believe as you do. But I don't and will say that I don't. I do not believe the sinful nature of a child of God becomes less sinful. It never becomes sinless.So you are on your way, you are beginning to be perfected. Well I am already there. I am perfect before God because I am in Jesus Christ. I have been placed in Jesus Christ by God Himself. I do not believe in progessive salvation, progressive justification, progressive sanctification, or progressive righteousness. According to the scriptures we have these things in the spirit the moment we are made children of God, by God.
Okay...you're perfect. I thought He was the only perfect one but...okay.
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You do realize, many of us are also in Christ. It is a many membered body.To me Richard...when our "old man" dies changes happen, wonderful changes and I would consider that as losing our sinful nature.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,​
]QUOTE
1 Cor 6:11But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.NKJVIf the child of God is not saved from his/her sinful nature by God then they are not saved. That does not mean we are saved by changing the sinful nature. It means we are saved in spite of our sinful nature.
That is very true. Perhaps we simply aren't understanding each other. I didn't say that we are saved by changing...we change because we are saved.
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RichardBurger

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QUOTE (whirlwind @ Mar 14 2009, 04:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70831
Okay...you're perfect. I thought He was the only perfect one but...okay.
smile.gif
You do realize, many of us are also in Christ. It is a many membered body.To me Richard...when our "old man" dies changes happen, wonderful changes and I would consider that as losing our sinful nature.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,​
]That is very true. Perhaps we simply aren't understanding each other. I didn't say that we are saved by changing...we change because we are saved.
laugh.gif

Everyone that has been born of God is perfect in the sight of God. If you are not perfect in the spirit then you are not a child of God.You have taken Hebrews 10:26 out of context.Heb 10:19-30 with context.19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.The above scripture is not about what we do but it is ALL about Jesus. He is the living way, our High Priest.The Just Live by Faith26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? NKJVThe above is not "if we sin sins of the flesh" there is no longer a sacrifice for sins. If it is then no one will be saved. The sin that is under consideration is the sin of rejecting Jesus. If we do not accept what Jesus did on the cross to save us then we do not have a sacrifice for sins. The children of God do not reject Jesus, verse 28, they do not trample the Son of God underfoot and they do not insult the Spirit of grace. Even though they still commit sins of the flesh.Many have been deceived by the doctrine of progressive sanctification, the idea that we get better over time. When they realize that the sinful thoughts are still there they begin to think Christianity is a hoaks because it didn't really change them like many say. Perhaps it would be better to understand that as we get older we see the results of sin and try our best not to get involved with it. But that does not mean we are becoming less sinful.
 

Jordan

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QUOTE (RichardBurger @ Mar 14 2009, 08:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70843
QUOTE (whirlwind @ Mar 14 2009, 03:35 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70831
Okay...you're perfect. I thought He was the only perfect one but...okay.
smile.gif
You do realize, many of us are also in Christ. It is a many membered body.To me Richard...when our "old man" dies changes happen, wonderful changes and I would consider that as losing our sinful nature.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,​
]That is very true. Perhaps we simply aren't understanding each other. I didn't say that we are saved by changing...we change because we are saved.
laugh.gif

Everyone that has been born of God is perfect in the sight of God. If you are not perfect in the spirit then you are not a child of God.You have taken Hebrews 10:26 out of context.Heb 10:19-30 with context.19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.The above scripture is not about what we do but it is ALL about Jesus. He is the living way, our High Priest.The Just Live by Faith26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? NKJVThe above is not "if we sin sins of the flesh" there is no longer a sacrifice for sins. If it is then no one will be saved. The sin that is under consideration is the sin of rejecting Jesus. If we do not accept what Jesus did on the cross to save us then we do not have a sacrifice for sins. The children of God do not reject Jesus, verse 28, they do not trample the Son of God underfoot and they do not insult the Spirit of grace. Even though they still commit sins of the flesh.Many have been deceived by the doctrine of progressive sanctification, the idea that we get better over time. When they realize that the sinful thoughts are still there they begin to think Christianity is a hoaks because it didn't really change them like many say. Perhaps it would be better to understand that as we get older we see the results of sin and try our best not to get involved with it. But that does not mean we are becoming less sinful.Whirlwind, I just wanted to warn you here. Be careful with RichardBurger, he is a twister of the Word in numerous times in the past when you were not here. I say this because I care about you. I highly doubt he has changed.
 

RichardBurger

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QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 14 2009, 10:40 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70847
Everyone that has been born of God is perfect in the sight of God. If you are not perfect in the spirit then you are not a child of God.You have taken Hebrews 10:26 out of context.Heb 10:19-30 with context.19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.The above scripture is not about what we do but it is ALL about Jesus. He is the living way, our High Priest.The Just Live by Faith26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? NKJVThe above is not "if we sin sins of the flesh" there is no longer a sacrifice for sins. If it is then no one will be saved. The sin that is under consideration is the sin of rejecting Jesus. If we do not accept what Jesus did on the cross to save us then we do not have a sacrifice for sins. The children of God do not reject Jesus, verse 28, they do not trample the Son of God underfoot and they do not insult the Spirit of grace. Even though they still commit sins of the flesh.Many have been deceived by the doctrine of progressive sanctification, the idea that we get better over time. When they realize that the sinful thoughts are still there they begin to think Christianity is a hoaks because it didn't really change them like many say. Perhaps it would be better to understand that as we get older we see the results of sin and try our best not to get involved with it. But that does not mean we are becoming less sinful.Whirlwind, I just wanted to warn you here. Be careful with RichardBurger, he is a twister of the Word in numerous times in the past when you were not here. I say this because I care about you. I highly doubt he has changed.
Thank you Jordan, keep the cards and letters coming. I think the moderators should read your post and realize that it is your efforts to silence me, your efforts to get others to not consider what I write. Jordan, somehow I believe you would be right there with the Pharrisees saying the same things about Jesus because you, obviously, think you know everything.I don't, normally, reply to your rubbish but I do wish the moderators would say something abouit your attitude about those that disagree with you. I am not the only one that you follow around and make denigrating remarks about.
 

whirlwind

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QUOTE (RichardBurger @ Mar 14 2009, 08:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70843
Everyone that has been born of God is perfect in the sight of God. If you are not perfect in the spirit then you are not a child of God.
laugh.gif
I assure you Richard....I am a child of God.QUOTE
You have taken Hebrews 10:26 out of context.Heb 10:19-30 with context.19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.The above scripture is not about what we do but it is ALL about Jesus. He is the living way, our High Priest.The Just Live by Faith26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? NKJVThe above is not "if we sin sins of the flesh" there is no longer a sacrifice for sins. If it is then no one will be saved. The sin that is under consideration is the sin of rejecting Jesus. If we do not accept what Jesus did on the cross to save us then we do not have a sacrifice for sins. The children of God do not reject Jesus, verse 28, they do not trample the Son of God underfoot and they do not insult the Spirit of grace. Even though they still commit sins of the flesh.
Not that I don't appreciate the bulk of scriptures you added but...they in no way take away the thought given in...."if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS." You may see the meaning as you do...but I do not. To me the operative word in the scripture is WILFULLY sin. A child of God would not wilfully sin however...as NO ONE, except you, is perfect we will all sin as we are still in a flesh body. You know, the thought that pops in one's head when they are angry, or whatever unbidden, unwanted "sin" happens, which is NOT WILFULLY SINNING (as in robbing a bank, committing adultery, murder, rape, etc.)QUOTE
Many have been deceived by the doctrine of progressive sanctification, the idea that we get better over time. When they realize that the sinful thoughts are still there they begin to think Christianity is a hoaks because it didn't really change them like many say. Perhaps it would be better to understand that as we get older we see the results of sin and try our best not to get involved with it. But that does not mean we are becoming less sinful.
Ephesians 4:12 For the PERFECTING of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and to the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.​
Notice that it is an ongoing process for it is the PERFECTING of the saints. We will all come to knowledge of Him, the perfect man on our way to being as Him.
1 Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, Who hath called us uto His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, MAKE YOU (shall Himself perfect you), stablish, strengthen, settle you​
.It doesn't read....made your perfect but...shall Himself perfect you, and...He does.
 

Jordan

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QUOTE (RichardBurger @ Mar 15 2009, 07:12 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70857
Thank you Jordan, keep the cards and letters coming. I think the moderators should read your post and realize that it is your efforts to silence me, your efforts to get others to not consider what I write. Jordan, somehow I believe you would be right there with the Pharrisees saying the same things about Jesus because you, obviously, think you know everything.I don't, normally, reply to your rubbish but I do wish the moderators would say something abouit your attitude about those that disagree with you. I am not the only one that you follow around and make denigrating remarks about.
Whatever Richard. You can't handle Matthew 7:21-23... Anybody can claim themselves a Christian.... but really Richard, Can Christ save still if they completely turn away from Christ? Anybody can claim to be a Christian... but if your actions don't show it... it's obvious the fruits are clearly shown.
 

RichardBurger

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QUOTE (whirlwind @ Mar 15 2009, 09:05 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70860
laugh.gif
I assure you Richard....I am a child of God.Not that I don't appreciate the bulk of scriptures you added but...they in no way take away the thought given in...."if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS." You may see the meaning as you do...but I do not. To me the operative word in the scripture is WILFULLY sin. A child of God would not wilfully sin however...as NO ONE, except you, is perfect we will all sin as we are still in a flesh body. You know, the thought that pops in one's head when they are angry, or whatever unbidden, unwanted "sin" happens, which is NOT WILFULLY SINNING (as in robbing a bank, committing adultery, murder, rape, etc.)
Ephesians 4:12 For the PERFECTING of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and to the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.​
Notice that it is an ongoing process for it is the PERFECTING of the saints. We will all come to knowledge of Him, the perfect man on our way to being as Him.
1 Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, Who hath called us uto His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, MAKE YOU (shall Himself perfect you), stablish, strengthen, settle you​
.It doesn't read....made your perfect but...shall Himself perfect you, and...He does.

According to what you seem to believe a person never knows if he is saved or not. I have lived a very long and full life and have yet to meet someone that is perfect IN THE FLESH. I understand that you have been taught, and believe, that a child of God is becoming sinless in the flesh. But I don't see that happening and I think that idea is deceiving and will send many to hell.I never said anything about your being a Christian or not. As a matter of fact, I say very little about others. I do not want things to become personal as Jordan does.I will not argue with you. Believe as you wish. But you really should look around you and see if there are any perfect in the flesh.quote; "if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS." If you believe that means sins of the flesh then if a person sins wilfully he can't be saved because there is no more sacrifice for sins. Obviously you seem to think you never sin wilfully. You need to think about that. You can decieve men but not God.However, there are many that God has made perfect in the spirit.
 

RichardBurger

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QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 15 2009, 02:04 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70862
Whatever Richard. You can't handle Matthew 7:21-23... Anybody can claim themselves a Christian.... but really Richard, Can Christ save still if they completely turn away from Christ? Anybody can claim to be a Christian... but if your actions don't show it... it's obvious the fruits are clearly shown.
That’s stupid!!!! What makes you think I cannot handle Matthew 7:21-23? I have not seen it used on this thread so how did you come up with that idea? You seem to be full of yourself today.You posted; "Whirlwind, I just wanted to warn you here. Be careful with RichardBurger, he is a twister of the Word in numerous times in the past when you were not here. I say this because I care about you. I highly doubt he has changed."What you are saying is that you have not made me come around to believing as you do and you are correct. I will never believe as you do. You think it is your right to denigrate (belittle, Malign) me and then sit back and say what a wonderful Christian you are and how you love everybody. That is just plain B.S. and you know it.I have never twisted the scriptures as you say. All you are doing is trying to elevate yourself at the expense of others. Most can see what you are doing and it doesn't make you look good.This is my last reply to you. I have no time for your foolishness.