Homosexuality Is An Affront to The God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob

[GracePeace]

Edit : My intention here is merely to prove that homosexuality actually is a sin (some people deny that it is), and that we can and should therefore call anyone who claims to be Christian to repentance. I do not deny that a Christian can fall into the sin of homosexuality--that would be antithetical to my view as expressed (ie, homosexuality really is a sin, and anyone who claims to be a Christian should be called to repent of it).

It is not Christian to practice homosexuality--they don't mix, you can't live both out, you have to choose one or the other.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [g]homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and [h]in the Spirit of our God.

Discuss.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

You cannot practice homosexuality and be Christian.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [g]homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and [h]in the Spirit of our God.

Discuss.

One who is truly born again is could never be such as one nor support such things.

Christianity is all about Israel (The Servants of God) now not all Christians will make the grade to become born again, most will only be water baptised Christians.

Just as back in the days of the Jews not all were worthy of being an Israelite in fact.

Many Christians are misled or duped about the Jews in thinking that all of the Jews were or are a special race of people somehow, but nothing is further from such. not all were worthy of God at all in fact, Just reading the Old Testament will clearly point that out. the Jews failed every time that they turned their backs on God.
But their are a few that were worthy all through their history and it's the same when Jesus Christ came, only they who were worthy of being a True Israelite became Christians (Servants of God) Born again of the Holy Spirit and that means Israel ! and Jesus Christ is the King of Israel. if one does not understand that fact, one is not worthy of the Kingdom of God.
How can one serve two masters ?

Now just because one is not truly born again do not fear, as long as your faith in Jesus Christ is strong believing in and seeking Jesus Christ you have hope, just like the Jews had faith and truly believed in Holy Moses they had hope, but the Jews who strayed from Moses had nothing but religion. they were on the wrong path. ones Religion never saved anyone.

Faith is good and all start with a little faith, but faith can grow to the point where such can move mountains so to speak. the Parable of the sower points such out as the cares of the worldly things can be weeds that choke the faith of most before that faith has matured and grown and the weeds can not hinder one as of such growth.

 

[GracePeace]

One who is truly born again is could never be such as one nor support such things.

Based on what? In 1 Corinthians 5:1-3, we see that a man had his father's wife--and the Corinthian Church was boasting about the sin! With a precedent like that, I don't think there're grounds for this claim that "One who is 'truly born again' could never ... support such things."
There's a reason he warned them--the same reason the Law was given (because people were practicing those things).

Christianity is all about Israel (The Servants of God)

This is not really the topic.

about now not all Christians will make the grade to become born again

Off-topic.

most will only be water baptised Christians.

Off-topic.

Just as back in the days of the Jews not all were worthy of being an Israelite in fact.

Off-topic.

Many Christians are misled or duped about the Jews in thinking that all of the Jews were or are a special race of people somehow, but nothing is further from such. not all were worthy of God at all in fact, Just reading the Old Testament will clearly point that out. the Jews failed every time that they turned their backs on God.
But their are a few that were worthy all through their history and it's the same when Jesus Christ came, only they who were worthy of being a True Israelite became Christians (Servants of God) Born again of the Holy Spirit and that means Israel ! and Jesus Christ is the King of Israel. if one does not understand that fact, one is not worthy of the Kingdom of God.

Off-topic.

How can one serve two masters ?

Off-topic.

Now just because one is not truly born again do not fear, as long as your faith in Jesus Christ is strong believing in and seeking Jesus Christ you have hope, just like the Jews had faith and truly believed in Holy Moses they had hope, but the Jews who strayed from Moses had nothing but religion. they were on the wrong path. ones Religion never saved anyone.

Off-topic.

Faith is good and all start with a little faith, but faith can grow to the point where such can move mountains so to speak. the Parable of the sower points such out as the cares of the worldly things can be weeds that choke the faith of most before that faith has matured and grown and the weeds can not hinder one as of such growth.

Off-topic.

If you want to make all of these pontifications, you should write your own thread not come and use my thread.

Thanks.

 

[GracePeace]

@Reggie Belafonte Sorry if there was some confusion regarding the title--I didn't want to say "An Affront to God" because there are satanists who frequent these forums and when they read "God" they do not interpret it as referring to the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

 

[Daniel Veler]

In order to understand what is written. A person must know when he or she enters into the kingdom. Is it before death or after. By knowing this then you’ll understand this verse. In Corinthians.

 

[GracePeace]

In order to understand what is written. A person must know when he or she enters into the kingdom. Is it before death or after. By knowing this then you’ll understand this verse. In Corinthians.

Please clarify how this is a response to the OP. Are you saying Paul did not mean to condemn homosexuality in the passage mentioned?

 

[Karl Peters]

You cannot practice homosexuality and be Christian.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [g]homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and [h]in the Spirit of our God.

Discuss.

There are questions that comes up in Christianity concerning sanctification and justification. Another way to put it is: are we saved by our good works or because we are counted as righteous because of our faith?????

I think a careful reading of the Bible reveals we are saved by faith - and specifically faith in Jesus Christ - so then not by our good works!!

Of course if we believe in Jesus Christ whose name is called "The Word of God" because we His sheep hear His voice - then we must be getting teaching, instructions, wisdom, and encouragement to do the right thing from Him. That must have some effect on us, but if we are in fact saved by our good works and our righteousness, then we are not justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ!!

I am new to this Christian forum. I left another because too many there had the idea that they were perfect in deed, or at least gave the impression! When looking I notice a statement that this forum seemed to understand that we are works in progress - which matched up with my belief - and I believe matched up with the Bible.

So could a homosexual be a Christian?

I believe it is possible, but that would have to be an area that the Holy Spirit would be working on. Thus the cleansing would come through forgives and being counted as righteous, not that the desire or temptation had gone away. The sanctification would mean that the Lord would start setting the person aside for His use. The justification would mean that regardless of the sin in the persons life, Christ paid the price for it at the cross. Let me put a few verses that also have to be taken into account in this discussion.

Gen 15:6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

The above verse shows we are reckoned by God as being righteous because of our belief and not our good works!

Rm 7:19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.

Paul was practicing the very evil that he did not want to be doing. Was it any of the following type of things: "sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [g]homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers"? We don't know, but if so we know the Paul would not have wanted to be doing those type of things - so was it him or sin in him doing those things?

Rm 7: 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

So Paul, as a Christian, became aware of principle that evil is present in us!

Rom 7:21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

That just means we as Christian become aware of our battles with the dark forces of this world, and also the presence of sin in us!

John put it like this:

1 Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

So a person struggling with homosexual desires could indeed be a Christian, who has be cleanses, sanctified, and justified by Jesus Christ. That doesn't mean we want them as an elder or leader in the church. As a work in progress, they might need a bit more work by the Holy Spirit performed in them. Yet if the Lord has reckoned their faith in Him as righteousness, and if the Lord has cleanse them by His blood and forgiveness, and if the Lord has sanctified them, and if the Lord has justified them in His name who then are you or I to say they are not righteous in His sight?? And can we not personally talk to the Lord as to what we need to do??

Jesus said He, even He God the Son, did not judge but as He heard He judged!!

The question, comment, and discussion that I feel needs to take place concerning the above verses, concern whether we are actually seeking the voice of the Lord when making judgments about others, or are we just trying to make judgements by our own understanding?

 

[GracePeace]

There are questions that comes up in Christianity concerning sanctification and justification. Another way to put it is: are we saved by our good works or because we are counted as righteous because of our faith?????

I think a careful reading of the Bible reveals we are saved by faith - and specifically faith in Jesus Christ - so then not by our good works!!

Of course if we believe in Jesus Christ whose name is called "The Word of God" because we His sheep hear His voice - then we must be getting teaching, instructions, wisdom, and encouragement to do the right thing from Him. That must have some effect on us, but if we are in fact saved by our good works and our righteousness, then we are not justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ!!

I am new to this Christian forum. I left another because too many there had the idea that they were perfect in deed, or at least gave the impression! When looking I notice a statement that this forum seemed to understand that we are works in progress - which matched up with my belief - and I believe matched up with the Bible.

Off-topic.

So could a homosexual be a Christian?

That's not the question.
The question is whether homosexuality is an affront to God, a sin, thus whether the two are compatible and whether a Christian should be permitted to continue walking in it or be told to repent.

I believe it is possible, but that would have to be an area that the Holy Spirit would be working on. Thus the cleansing would come through forgives and being counted as righteous, not that the desire or temptation had gone away. The sanctification would mean that the Lord would start setting the person aside for His use. The justification would mean that regardless of the sin in the persons life, Christ paid the price for it at the cross. Let me put a few verses that also have to be taken into account in this discussion.

Gen 15:6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

The above verse shows we are reckoned by God as being righteous because of our belief and not our good works!

Not really the question.

Rm 7:19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.

Paul was practicing the very evil that he did not want to be doing.

Oops! That's before faith in Christ.
1. Romans 6:14 "sin shall not have mastery over you because you are not under Law". Why would he say that? "The Law came in to increase the trespass"--because "the strength of sin is the Law". So, that is precisely what is going on (sin is mastering Paul) in Romans 7, which makes sense of Romans 7:5 "when we were in the flesh". Romans 7 is a description, a transcript, of the life of a Jew "in the flesh" and "under Law"--such that he is "mastered by sin"--but the Christian is "not in the flesh but in the Spirit" Romans 8:9.
2. Paul says that he cannot do the good which the Law tells him to do in Romans 7, but in Romans 8:4 he says he does fulfill the righteous requirement of the Law.
3. Paul says he is completely conquered by covetousness in Romans 7, but we know that "no covetous man who is an idolator has any inheritance in the Kingdom of God" so this is not a Christian!
4. Paul says he is "taken captive" by Sin's Law in the flesh in Romans 7, but he is "set free" (opposite conditions) in Romans 8:2 because Christ set him free from his body of sin and death in Romans 7:24-25.

Was it any of the following type of things: "sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [g]homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers"? We don't know, but if so we know the Paul would not have wanted to be doing those type of things - so was it him or sin in him doing those things?

Rm 7: 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

So Paul, as a Christian, became aware of principle that evil is present in us!

Rom 7:21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

That just means we as Christian become aware of our battles with the dark forces of this world, and also the presence of sin in us!

John put it like this:

1 Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

So a person struggling with homosexual desires could indeed be a Christian, who has be cleanses, sanctified, and justified by Jesus Christ. That doesn't mean we want them as an elder or leader in the church. As a work in progress, they might need a bit more work by the Holy Spirit performed in them. Yet if the Lord has reckoned their faith in Him as righteousness, and if the Lord has cleanse them by His blood and forgiveness, and if the Lord has sanctified them, and if the Lord has justified them in His name who then are you or I to say they are not righteous in His sight?? And can we not personally talk to the Lord as to what we need to do??

Jesus said He, even He God the Son, did not judge but as He heard He judged!!

The question, comment, and discussion that I feel needs to take place concerning the above verses, concern whether we are actually seeking the voice of the Lord when making judgments about others, or are we just trying to make judgements by our own understanding?

1. Again, Romans 7 isn't Paul as a Christian.
2. John is correct, but Romans 7 isn't Christian life.
3. Whether a Christian can struggle with homosexual desires isn't the question--it is granted in my view (just as someone could struggle against adulterous desires).
4. The reason this thread was published was because some actually deny homosexuality is a sin at all.

 

[Daniel Veler]

Please clarify how this is a response to the OP. Are you saying Paul did not mean to condemn homosexuality in the passage mentioned?

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean
person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.”
What about all these people? Are they just as guilty as the homosexual? God hasn’t given us the right to judge who are saved or not. I’m not saying that a murder who has committed murder can not be saved nor any other sinner mentioned above. But once saved a person turns from his old nature and walks in God’s love. No longer doing the things against God. Like I asked and you didn’t answer. Does a person inherit the kingdom before or after death?

 

[Karl Peters]

Oops! That's before faith in Christ.
1. Romans 6:14 "sin shall not have mastery over you because you are not under Law". Why would he say that? "The Law came in to increase the trespass"--because "the strength of sin is the Law". So, that is precisely what is going on (sin is mastering Paul) in Romans 7, which makes sense of Romans 7:5 "when we were in the flesh". Romans 7 is a description, a transcript, of the life of a Jew "in the flesh" and "under Law"--such that he is "mastered by sin"--but the Christian is "not in the flesh but in the Spirit" Romans 8:9.
2. Paul says that he cannot do the good which the Law tells him to do in Romans 7, but in Romans 8:4 he says he does fulfill the righteous requirement of the Law.
3. Paul says he is completely conquered by covetousness in Romans 7, but we know that "no covetous man who is an idolator has any inheritance in the Kingdom of God" so this is not a Christian!
4. Paul says he is "taken captive" by Sin's Law in the flesh in Romans 7, but he is "set free" (opposite conditions) in Romans 8:2 because Christ set him free from his body of sin and death in Romans 7:24-25.

All sin is an "affront to God". Homosexuality is therefore an affront to God. Yet that is not really what the OP is about!

The above shows the real misconception.

That Pharisee, we tend to call Saul, was a man of God, according to his own thinking at that time. So he was going to punish, imprison, and help in the killing of those he personally deemed as sinners - like those Christians who unknown to him actually did know the Lord Jesus Christ and His mercy and grace. So it was that we read about the events on the road to Damascus and the shocking reality that Jesus Christ really does exist and can talk to us. Thus we find a man who wrote much of the Bible that we call Paul.

It was Paul who wrote: Rom 7 and "Rm 7:19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want."

Do is a present tense and thus Paul the Christian, not that Pharisee Saul, (ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE) was the man who was doing what he did not want and who found the principle that evil was in him. We read about this again when Paul the Christian explain that he had a messanger from Satan (an evil spirit) as a thorn in his side, and the Lord was not going to remove that evil spirit because the Lord's grace and mercy was enough for Paul.

So consider - who is the person like Saul and who is the person like Paul?

Christians are understanding people! And that because they know they have and continue to get mercy, grace, and forgiveness from the Lord. Religious zealots like Saul the Pharisee tend to be very unforgiving and operate in "self-righteousness" as opposed to seeking the voice of the Lord for understanding.

Now what is that OP really about?

 

[GracePeace]

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean
person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.”
What about all these people? Are they just as guilty as the homosexual? God hasn’t given us the right to judge who are saved or not. I’m not saying that a murder who has committed murder can not be saved nor any other sinner mentioned above. But once saved a person turns from his old nature and walks in God’s love. No longer doing the things against God. Like I asked and you didn’t answer. Does a person inherit the kingdom before or after death?

I'm just not answering off topic stuff and I'm trying to figure out how youre on topic. You're not making that clear. Make it clear if you want a response please.

 

[GracePeace]

All sin is an "affront to God". Homosexuality is therefore an affront to God. Yet that is not really what the OP is about!

You clearly did not read my reply (so I won't be reading yours here) : again, not all agree homosexuality is even a sin, and that was what this OP was about. Trust me, I wrote it.

 

[GracePeace]

A drunk gets saved. Try as he might, he slips from time to time. Does this mean that he is not saved? Or is there something else at work here?
I don't believe God created anyone gay. Though I do believe that some may born that way due to the generational, progressive, corruption of sin.
Sin is more than what we do. It's what we are. Our spirit is reborn instantly, but the "rebirth" of the soul is a process.
Sodom was destroyed because they had become arrogant, overfed, and unconcerned about those less fortunate than themselves. - Ezekiel 16:49
If we all got what we deserved, we'd all be doomed. Smile...Jesus love all of us!

Some deny homosexuality is a sin.
That's what this thread is about--proving it's a sin.

 

[Pearl]

You cannot practice homosexuality and be Christian.

Perhaps not but it isn't our job to shun, judge or point fingers. For we all have sinned.

 

[GracePeace]

Perhaps not but it isn't our job to shun, judge or point fingers. For we all have sinned.

The thread is merely about proving homosexuality is a sin because some people deny it.

 

[Pearl]

The thread is merely about proving homosexuality is a sin because some people deny it.

Some Christian people get very nasty about it also. And I wouldn't like to see this debate sink to those sort of levels.

 

[JazzyJeff15]

Hey its Dr. Michael Brown! I watch him on youtube a few times a week

But anyways, yes i believe homosexuality is a sin. I dont think thats something that needs to be argued about. People that claim to be Christians and are so sure its not a sin are following a different God from the the God thats mentioned in the op

 

[GracePeace]

Some Christian people get very nasty about it also. And I wouldn't like to see this debate sink to those sort of levels.

I understand where you're coming from, even if it is irrelevant to the question of whether homosexuality is or is not a sin.

 

[GracePeace]

Hey its Dr. Michael Brown! I watch him on youtube a few times a week

But anyways, yes i believe homosexuality is a sin. I dont think thats something that needs to be argued about. People that claim to be Christians and are so sure its not a sin are following a different God from the the God thats mentioned in the op

The misled mislead others--and on an issue like homosexuality, it can determine one's eternal fate--so of course it's worth debating.

 

[GracePeace]

I wouldn't like to see it either.

You're concerned about people being "loving"--the thread is "loving" by proving homosexuality is a sin.