How could the Messiah be sinless?

[janc]

The Bible clearly says that every human will sin someday:

There is no human who does not sin. (1 Kings 8:46)

But then how could the Messiah be sinless?

I would say that the spirit in the Messiah was not a human spirit but the spirit of God. The Spirit of God in the flesh, therefore John 1:1 and 14. But then one asks oneself the question, did the incarnation of the Spirit create another person separated from the father? Should one think that God has begotten a real son? That God has begotten a real son sounds illogical to me, since this would then be a second God, but if the Messiah is the Father, one would have to ask oneself why the Bible constantly separates the Son from the Father.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The Bible clearly says that every human will sin someday:

There is no human who does not sin. (1 Kings 8:46)

But then how could the Messiah be sinless?

1 Kings 8:46 is referring to every regular human. Yes, every one of those will screw up eventually.
Not God incarnated.

I would say that the spirit in the Messiah was not a human spirit but the spirit of God. The Spirit of God in the flesh, therefore John 1:1 and 14. But then one asks oneself the question, did the incarnation of the Spirit create another person separated from the father? Should one think that God has begotten a real son? That God has begotten a real son sounds illogical to me, since this would then be a second God, but if the Messiah is the Father, one would have to ask oneself why the Bible constantly separates the Son from the Father.

There's a variety of ways people understand the relationship between the Father/Son/Spirit.

But vast majority of them state that the Father and Son aren't the same person: Christ doesn't pray to Himself, doesn't pat himself on the back during his baptism, etc. Rather they are two different persons in one God. The Spirit likewise being another person in that one God.

 

[janc]

1 Kings 8:46 is referring to every regular human. Yes, every one of those will screw up eventually.
Not God incarnated.

There's a variety of ways people understand the relationship between the Father/Son/Spirit.

But vast majority of them state that the Father and Son aren't the same person: Christ doesn't pray to Himself, doesn't pat himself on the back during his baptism, etc. Rather they are two different persons in one God. The Spirit likewise being another person in that one God.

The Spirit of God is not a separate person, he is the personality of God, which means that everything that God is, is his spirit.
But a satisfying answer why the spirit is sometimes separated from the Father and also from the Son, I do not have.
But this is certainly due to the language of the Hebrews, for also a hebrew spoke as if his spirit was not himself.

 

[Enoch111]

That God has begotten a real son sounds illogical to me, since this would then be a second God, but if the Messiah is the Father, one would have to ask oneself why the Bible constantly separates the Son from the Father.

You will never learn anything will you? I already addressed this but it simply did not register.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The Spirit of God is not a separate person, he is the personality of God, which means that everything that God is, is his spirit.

That's one interpretation of the relationship of the Father/Son/Spirit, but many Christians hold a different interpretation(s).

I can't address your query for you, because I don't hold that particular interpretation.

 

[janc]

You will never learn anything will you? I already addressed this but it simply did not register.

You say that the Son of God is an eternal God, who has no beginning, although the Bible clearly says that the Messiah only became the Son of God through the incarnation of the Holy Spirit. So there was no Son of God and no Messiah before the Incarnation.
Therefore your thought does not agree with the Bible in my opinion.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Bible clearly says that every human will sin someday:

There is no human who does not sin. (1 Kings 8:46)

But then how could the Messiah be sinless?

The Messiah is an exception to the rule, plain and simple.

Because He is God in the flesh.

 

[Enoch111]

Therefore your thought does not agree with the Bible in my opinion.

You really don't know your Bible.

...the Bible clearly says that the Messiah only became the Son of God through the incarnation of the Holy Spirit.

This is false. The Bible says no such thing. Quite the opposite.

About 1,000 years before the incarnation of Christ, God the Father addressed the Son as God (through David). And God is eternal.

PSALM 45:6,7: THE SON IS ADDRESSED AS GOD
Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

HEBREWS 1:8,9: MAKES THIS PERFECTLY CLEAR
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God,even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35) and ascended to exist outside of time (Ephesians 4:10).

 

[janc]

You really don't know your Bible.

This is false. The Bible says no such thing. Quite the opposite.

About 1,000 years before the incarnation of Christ, God the Father addressed the Son as God (through David). And God is eternal.

PSALM 45:6,7: THE SON IS ADDRESSED AS GOD
Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

HEBREWS 1:8,9: MAKES THIS PERFECTLY CLEAR
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God,even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

The term "God" is not a name, it is a title and means "leader"; humans and angels are therefore also called gods in the Bible.

These Bible passages are prophecies and verse 10 is referred to the Father.

 

[Taken]

The Bible clearly says that every human will sin someday:

There is no human who does not sin. (1 Kings 8:46)

But then how could the Messiah be sinless?

Jesus was not A human.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Renniks]

You say that the Son of God is an eternal God, who has no beginning, although the Bible clearly says that the Messiah only became the Son of God through the incarnation of the Holy Spirit. So there was no Son of God and no Messiah before the Incarnation.
Therefore your thought does not agree with the Bible in my opinion.

This is just wrong. Jesus was there in the beginning and created the world. He is the Word who spoke words that became matter. We can't be saved by a temporal being with limits. Jesus is the perfect image of the Father because they are One.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is just wrong. Jesus was there in the beginning and created the world. He is the Word who spoke words that became matter. We can't be saved by a temporal being with limits. Jesus is the perfect image of the Father because they are One.

Jesus was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35) and ascended to exist outside of time (Ephesians 4:10).

His pre-incarnate form was as the eternal Spirit who inhabiteth eternity (Isaiah 57:15); one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).

 

[Renniks]

Jesus was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35) and ascended to exist outside of time (Ephesians 4:10).

His pre-incarnate form was as the eternal Spirit who inhabiteth eternity (Isaiah 57:15); one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).

My point is that he had no beginning, but always existed as part of the Trinity.

 

[justbyfaith]

My point is that he had no beginning, but always existed as part of the Trinity.

His flesh had a beginning (Romans 1:3, Isaiah 45:11).

 

[historyb]

But then how could the Messiah be sinless?

Because Christ was not just human, but both human and Divine. Christ was and is Both fully human and fully God at the same time. Christ was, is, and always will be absolutely perfect

 

[Renniks]

His flesh had a beginning (Romans 1:3, Isaiah 45:11).

Of course, that's what the incarnation was. God taking on flesh.

 

[justbyfaith]

Of course, that's what the incarnation was. God taking on flesh.

So, the question is, before He took on flesh, was Jesus a 2nd God apart from the Father? Was He 1/3 of God?

Or, was He God?

 

[Enoch111]

Jesus was begotten in the incarnation...

No. The ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God has been in the bosom of the Father for eternity.

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (John 1:18)

Please note that while John is speaking about the incarnation, he is telling us that Christ is still in the bosom of the Father at that time. And Jesus said the very same thing in John 3:13.

All the answers to these inane questions are found in the first chapter of the Gospel of John. But if people will not read, study, digest, and believe these truths, there is no hope for them.

 

[janc]

This is just wrong. Jesus was there in the beginning and created the world. He is the Word who spoke words that became matter. We can't be saved by a temporal being with limits. Jesus is the perfect image of the Father because they are One.

The Messiah who is the Son of God did not exist before his incarnation, but the Spirit who is in him already existed.
It could be that through the incarnation of the Spirit a separate person has come into being, so the Messiah is not the Father but they have the same "nature" because they have the same Spirit.