Is this verse talking about a physical death, spiritual death, or both? Since isn't praising the Lord what we do in Heaven? Psalms 115:17
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How Do You Define Death?
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CharismaticLady
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CharismaticLady
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Seeing as the Psalms were written in the Old Testament/Old Covenant, the righteous went to Abrahams bosom, and the evil went to the other side, and in between there was a great gulf. Only Christians (after Christ's death and resurrection go straight to heaven, and the wicked to outer darkness. (Not for sure about the last part.)
I've always thought that when someone saw a ghost now, they would have to be either a demon or an unsaved person. The dead in Christ are with God. What do you think about ghosts and aliens? I think they are all demons, but could be wrong about ghosts. Aliens are demons, for sure.
First of all I'll address the second half of this first. I believe in ghosts because I had an experience with some and I'm on the fence as to what I think about aliens. As for where people went before Christ's death and resurrection didn't they have a holding area to go to or something? I asked that question on another forum and @Sabertooth posted this song that addresses it that I now LOVE.
CharismaticLady
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Abraham's Bosom and Paradise are the Old Covenant places for the righteous dead before the resurrection of Christ. But when Christ was resurrected, they were seen walking the streets of Jerusalem. I believe they ascended to heaven when Christ did, they didn't go back to Paradise. Paradise is empty.First of all I'll address the second half of this first. I believe in ghosts because I had an experience with some and I'm on the fence as to what I think about aliens. As for where people went before Christ's death and resurrection didn't they have a holding area to go to or something? I asked that question on another forum and @Sabertooth posted this song that addresses it that I now LOVE.
Luke 16:
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”
Luke 23:
40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
Sabertooth
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Except for the instance of Samuel [1 Samuel 28:3-20], all other "human" ghosts are demons. That is why God forbade necromancy [séances] in the Old Testament.
You see this is a problem I have with believing the Bible to be a hundred percent accurate when it contradicts itself. If Paradise is empty, then why did Jesus say this to the thief on the cross? Luke 23:43
Sabertooth
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Instead of questioning the accuracy of the Bible, it makes more sense to question our understanding of it.
“God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.” James 4:6 NKJV
Jesus said,
"For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away,
one jot or one tittle* will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." Matthew 5:18 NKJV
*The smallest strokes & dots in the text of the Law.
That verse is like a half-sentence. The other half explains...
Psalms 115:17-18
"It is not the dead who praise the Lord, those who go down to the place of silence; it is we who extol the Lord, both now and forevermore."
It is an 'us vs. them' statement.
I believe Abraham's Bosom still exists. It is the Throne Room in the Book of Revelation...
The Revelation Throne Room is Abraham's Bosom
@April_Rose
Every human being walking around on planet Earth is dead in the eyes of God until and if a person received the Life that Jesus brought.
Adam and Eve died when they disobeyed God. How can dead people produce living offspring?
"But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead." Matt 8:22
"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly" John 10:10
Every human being walking around on planet Earth is dead in the eyes of God until and if a person received the Life that Jesus brought.
Adam and Eve died when they disobeyed God. How can dead people produce living offspring?
"But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead." Matt 8:22
"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly" John 10:10
The phrase 'Spiritual Death' is not one I use because it is difficult to quantify and can be confusing.
I prefer the phrase 'Twice Dead', meaning that they are already pre-determined (judged) to be thrown into the Lake of Fire.
Jude 1:12
"These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;"
Just as we are promised Life Eternal, the 'dead' are promised the opposite...
Revelation 2:11
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."
Notice that @amadeus points out that we are all 'dead' before being Saved. This is another reason I use the phrase 'Twice Dead' to clarify which 'death' we are talking about.
I do not wish to debate Amadeus on this, but I would like to just point out that I believe that Adam and Eve actually died completely and had to be re-created into the bodies we have now.
Yes, I am probably the only person on this Forum that believes that... lol.
I see the Cherubim and Flaming Sword as an Old Testament prophecy of the Lake of Fire that Adam and Eve had to 'pass through' to be incarnated into this 'lower dimensional' world.
Therefore, I believe Adam and Eve were 'Twice Dead'... not just, as many would say, "Spiritually Dead".
So wait, before I agree or disagree with you, are you saying that you believe that they physically died once? AKA like Lazarus did and then Jesus rose him from the dead? Also just to be clear, my heart chooses what to believe and what not to believe from the Bible since I do believe that men wrote it and it isn't always black and white as I've already clearly pointed out. One part of the book says we go to Heaven (if we're saved) after the second coming, and another part says that Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would go to Heaven that same day. :/
Yes.
Not a raising from the dead, but a type of Reincarnation. Yes, contrary to what the Church 'tells' us to think, I believe wholeheartedly that Reincarnation is in fact Biblical. I am hated for that belief, so be careful who you discuss that with.
Just so we consider other things here, some years ago our friend @Guiliano [no longer an active member on this forum] on another forum suggested to me that the "skins" provided by God for Adam and Eve to cover them rather than being the skins of some lower [ supposedly] animals was the outer layer of skin each person has now. Someone with an open mind and heart following from there might see where you have arrived at your conclusion. Too many gaps for me to take hold it and run with it, but I am not sure the gaps need to be covered... the nakedness of Adam and Eve did. Why did they not need a covering prior to their disobedience but then needed one afterward. Their own sown fig leaves was inadequate. Why were the skins God provided better? Why were the skin coverings still only temporary and why were they no longer needed after Jesus brought a new and better covering, the Holy Ghost?
[I am not debating, but simply asking some questions.]
Yes.
Not a raising from the dead, but a type of Reincarnation. Yes, contrary to what the Church 'tells' us to think, I believe wholeheartedly that Reincarnation is in fact Biblical. I am hated for that belief, so be careful who you discuss that with.
Umm,.. okay. Well to each their own I guess.
CharismaticLady
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Jesus died and took the thief to Paradise for just a couple days, until Jesus, Himself, resurrected and emptied Paradise.
cc: @Sabertooth
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